Just got this from Grumbuk today as a follow-up on removing the bobbing from levitation type spells:

Not long after the collision system became relatively stable, we decided to hold off on any changes to movement & collision code unless absolutely necessary for a while. We did not want risk the introduction of new bugs when the players had already been dealing with so many problems with the DX9 update. Now that things have been stable for a while, I’ve been able to spend some quality time on the collision system and finally get back to some of these issues on small, careful step at a time. Levitate in particular has been discussed since my original post on the subject, and some valid concerns were raised about the idea of just removing the current form as a client side option.

One thing about EQ that we would really like to avoid is framerate-dependant behavior. Levitate, in it’s current form, is one of those things as you have probably noticed. Turning it off would certainly eliminate the framerate dependant behavior, but it would also be a nerf of this spell (unless it was turned on) since right now it can be used to access certain areas that would no longer be accessible without the bobbing effect. We weren’t happy with the idea of a player having to turn on this effect via UI window just to access the ledge in Chardok, for instance (this is just one example), and some of us weren’t real keen on the idea of losing the visual feedback that communicated immediately to the player that the person they were looking at was levitated. Keeping it a fun and interesting feature of the game is also important to us.

So during the discussion about what kind of change would solve these concerns, we concluded that the following change to levitate would probably be the best. We plan to remove the bobbing effect completely, and make the jump key push you upwards slightly – just enough to match the vertical offset that the bobbing that the old levitate behavior provided (right now, jump while levitated does nothing).

The visual communication to the player about telling if someone was levitated just by looking at them was – at the time – going to be based on the fact that the shadow wouldn’t be directly adjacent to the player (since they aren’t touching the ground) but as it turns out a lot of people leave shadows off so another method for doing this visual communication needs to be determined. This is what the bobbing used to do; it’s helpful to know when people are levitated just by looking at them. There are some options about how to approach this, right now a very light particle effect flowing downward near their feet is the leading contender but the decision on what to do for this definitely up in the air.

I liked the bobbing effect =(

I would prefer the bob was kept in but the 1st person camera 'lag' behind the movement one bob height. Meaning the camera doesn't move during the bob effect unless it's over the bob distance either during climbing a wall or descending by looking down and moving. Would probably be good for 3rd person cameras as well.

Note: The current lev can be used to climb sheer corners. Time running into the corner to the down part of the bob and standing still during the rise part. Don't think this would be possible with just jumping as standing over open air usually results in a slow descent.

We've had many polls and discussions over the years, and a large number of people have a problem with the visual 1st person effect of levitating. It's something that many druids get used to, since we're forced to deal with it because of SoE. But if you go play another class for a couple weeks, then go back to your druid and the 24/7 bobbing, you can see why many people dislike it.

I dont know that knowing about whether other people are levitating is all that useful. For a very very long time, seeing another person not bobbing was no guarantee that they werent levved, so I just got used to not assuming anything. A small particle effect would probably be nice though.

What remains is the effect that will be visible on yourself while levitating. I think it's important for immersion reasons for there to be some sort of visual indicator that you are levved, but bobbing constantly is annoying as all hell. I'm not sure what else could be done that wouldnt be equally annoying, yet still an immersive indicator. I was going to say maybe some sort of haze effect at the bottom of the viewport, but that could be irritating. Dont want to be dealing with constant particles coming at my viewport's "face"... that used to drive me bonkers with the original Epic leaves... I dunno... that's a tough one.

but the decision on what to do for this definitely up in the air.
No pun intended, I'm sure!

Was there a problem with levitate before? I have heard ONE complaint about levitate in 4 years of EQ.

I love the bounce effect of lev... I really hope that they'll keep in consideration the option to have it as an option in alt-o for those of us who are addicted to the bouncing.

I as well as several of my guildmates find the bobbing of SoE and other levitate spells to be rather umm...nausea inducing. Even though I play a druid, I almost never have SoE on, prefering to sacrifice speed for a happy tummy. I really hope that this change goes through. :)

Well I dont know about a problem, but it actually it makes me sick as well as everyone I know - i use SoE for travel only if I can. Surely this must common ...

The bobbing is why I detest druids that run along and ninja-soe you without notice. It gets nausiating after a while.

I love the bobbing effect, and i get sick when i can't have foe on ;p

This is more a client performance issue than anything else. Removing framerate-dependent code presents an opportunity for an engineering win. The size of the win depends on the quality of your machine. It's potentially dramatic at times of system stress: I am reminded of a number of raids where mass dmf/foe were employed and boy did they make a negative impact!

The possibilities are endless but the best solution will probably be the simplest. (And hitting the jump key over and over does not belong in the simplest solution. My jump key sticks occasionally.)

What is Levitation?

Let's start with a couple of principles:

1. Levitation increases your Z offset above the surface beneath you by a fixed amount and tries to keep you there. Let's call this amount 'LevZoff'.

2. Levitation is not flying, the force is not that strong. Therefore, being at an altitude greater than LevZoff (eg. high above the ground) will decrease your altitude by a small percentage of LevZoff per tick. In this way you drop slowly from significant heights while levitated.

Jumping should continue to have no effect while levitated. The relatively weak levitating force would give way the way a big weak spring beneath you would, providing little to no boost.

Clearly, as you move up an incline it will appear you are moving at LevZoff height above the surface. This will eliminate the need for "bounce ups" to get you up a hill, and should make the high path into PoFire first castle a tad easier (and less laggy!).


Visual Cues

As for visual cues that indicate -- to yourself and, in particular, others -- you are levitated... simply adding a particle effect beneath your feet to the optional shadow effect and your obvious altitude adjustment would be sufficient to provide the necessary fantasy element.

But which particle effect would be best? I can think of three possibilities: (1) particles moving up, (2) particles moving down, or (3) a semi-transparent swirling disc of particles. Particles moving up seems to indicate a magical force is acting on you, preventing you from dropping to the ground. It has a problem when you are significantly above the ground... the particles appear out of nowhere. Whereas particles moving down indicate that you are acting on your environment. But this effect seems more Sci-Fi than Fantasy. Finally, an elevated disc beneath your feet belongs clearly in fantasy and just as clearly indicates what exactly is acting on you to lift you up (ie. the disc). Think magic carpet.

Or, hey, they could make you look like you slapped on a pair of semi-transparent lifts from the '70s! (be afraid) :D

Humm, how bout this:

Keep levitate bobing exactly as is for the person you are targeting, yourself included. However, for anyone, including yourself, that you are not targeting just remove the bob.
You could easily throw in a toggle too, between any number of options.

I dont see how the ledge in chardok is any example; a simple removal of the bob should not change the rate you descend at, so it'd be the same to get there. 99% of the time the issue of lev bobing is about preformance, player sickness, or optimizing run speed. For none of those is it beneficial - unless you're the 1 in 100 freak who likes it :confused:.

I wonder if they'll nerf spamming aon to get higher (since refreshing the illusion resets the 'bob', though for some reason you can't get more than ~20 feet off the ground like that, so it's not *super* useful)

No bob = no climbing up steep surfaces with lev since it is the up part of the bob that lets you climb. For chardok a lot climb the stalagmites in front of the castle and run across to the ledge. It's a bit harder but not impossible to run from the ramp towards the exit.

Wow, I can't believe the number of people who love the bobbing effect. The number of complaints I get from group members - especially tanks - who hate the bobbing effect is overwhelming. They click off FOE at the first chance they get. Usually it serves as nothing but a travel spell for them.

I don't mind the bobbing, but I'll be happy to see it go, as it will make it a much more desired buff.

That's why you will be able to jump while levitating. Jump will move you up the same distance as a bob would have, allowing you to climb the same objects as before. In fact, it might even be faster with this change.

Having to jump to move up an incline is silly. Do you jump to get up a ramp? Guess I'll have to quote myself to show how my simpler solution obviates the need for both bob and jump.
1. Levitation increases your Z offset above the surface beneath you by a fixed amount and tries to keep you there. Let's call this amount 'LevZoff'.

Jumping should continue to have no effect while levitated. The relatively weak levitating force would give way the way a big weak spring beneath you would, providing little to no boost.

Clearly, as you move up an incline it will appear you are moving at LevZoff height above the surface. This will eliminate the need for "bounce ups" to get you up a hill, and should make the high path into PoFire first castle a tad easier (and less laggy!).
Using this technique you won't drop beneath LevZoff height while levitated, even while moving upslope. No bobbing required. No tedious jumping required. You just have to move up the inclince.

Simple, no?

<3 the bobbing. I even use it on my melee toon despite the wide range of melee types who hate it...only ones who seem to detest it in my guild are the tanks since it makes it harder to auto attack while getting hit though. hehe

Will be sad to see it go, but I imagine ill get used to it. There goes another part of druid legacy = /

I like the bobbing effect and hope they don't make a forced change on it.
Give me the option to leave things how they are for my screen please.

That's why you will be able to jump while levitating. Jump will move you up the same distance as a bob would have, allowing you to climb the same objects as before. In fact, it might even be faster with this change.
I think this will work fine. I also get very motion sick when I have this on and am next to other people. Tanks also only use it for travel and click it off and ask me for SoW at our destination.
I guess making it an option you can toggle on and off would make almost everybody happy.

I've gotten so used to the bobbing I feel rooted when I'm playing another character. In fact, when on my chanter I'll sometimes buff myself with levitation to simulate the effect. However, I do occasionally hear complaints about it from people who can't stand the bobbing, and do get a request for SoW every now and then when I'm doing FoE (always carry clickie boots for that very reason).

I would *prefer* that at the very least, we'll have the option to switch between the new particals and the old bobbing.

I do *not* want to press 'jump' a hundred times to travel up a ramp or flight of stairs, nor do I want FoE to force my groupmates to spam jump. This would cause a LOT of people to ask for SoW when they would have otherwise been perfectly happy with FoE.

~Firemynd

I think the jump fix is stupid. Mostly because it requires active work rather than the passive work the current lev employs (I only climb when I am bored), but also because jumping drains endurance. I will bet dollars to dougnuts that they don't change that for lev either. I honestly don't know how I am going to play some of my charaters without the bobbing effect. I have become so attached that I go out of my way to avoid antilev zones. Oh well, suppose theres nothing that can be done about it now. Hopefully they will put a toggle for the bounce effect, but I doubt it.

Where does he say that you'll have to jump to go up a ramp or up stairs? Do you have to do that now without lev on? You'll still move up the incline, and when you get to the top you'll readjust to the minimum lev distance, no biggy. This aint rocket science, have a tiny bit of faith.

Bah Tiane. You should know as well as everyone faith doesnt come free 'round here no mo'

That said, yes there are some areas due to collision and what not that lev is needed to get up some staircases unless you want to sit there and bunny hop each one. The HOH basement stairs are just one example. At least as a shorter race. And given thats one of our only PoP solo spots, that could hurt the grind sessions of a few halfings.

Either way, its not a case of rocket science - its a change that many are saying they dont want to see. Its just unfortunate for a good number of folks - but you cant make everyone happy all the time....

Yeah, I should know better... but he already implied a minimum vertical distance when he talked about the particle effect flowing down from the player's feet. That and I have a lot of respect for Grumbuk 8)

Do gnomes/halflings have to jump up those hoh steps without lev?

Yeah, or at least they (we) still did when I last went down there out of boredom. It was pretty "sticky" before the collision changes, and hell afterwards. My last time down there was long after the fixes, and I had to mem lev to get back up with my sanity. Illusions help too, but they dont help you run any faster =)

This change would rock so much...

I really hate bobbing.

I HATE the bobbing effect. Gives me a headache.

I like the bobbing, it feels wierd in zones like MPG where it doesn't work (even worse in MPG because I use wolf form to stay competitive with the mob runspeed, but I *HATE* wolf form)

Here, this should help visualize what's currently going on. It took me 3 hours to draw all 61 layers so I'm only going to post this one image for now. (I need sleep!)

http://home.earthlink.net/~mperedo/pix/eq/Levitation-current.jpg

Simple, no? :p

Now subtract bobbing, add jumping, and adjust arrows accordingly. That's what Grumbuk related. Is it any simpler or more elegant?

Whereas my version is simply an elevated, inclined path parallel to the inclined surface, be it over a hill or up the side of a stalagmite. Same piece of code, no exceptions, no efficiency loss, no inconvenient jumping.

Ok, time to rest my brain, I've been coding up a storm. :sleep:

I hope they get rid of the bobbing. It's frustrating when playing a melee and annoying as a druid having to do 2 different forms of run speed all the time for your group, particularly since they have differing durations.

I also wish they'd give people the option of turning off wolf form illusion but keeping the run and atk speed buff.

I also wish they'd give people the option of turning off wolf form illusion but keeping the run and atk speed buff.

omgyesplzkthx

Most people I've talked to in the game concerning the bobbing effect hate it. I've been playing 5 years, and there are many many people who wish they could get rid of it.

I hate leviate as well as some of you guys, but I don't want the bobbing removed, some places it's helped get unstuck since the collision detection went in, getting stuck in a corner of the geometry jump wouldn't let me out, when I levitated it let me bob out of the spot I was stuck in.
In a recent cleric raid, the epic mob got stuck on top of a tree, we were all able to lev up to the tree , except the cleric, unfortunalty the gm wouldn't transfer the looted items to the cleric so now she has to redo the quest again. :(

The only problem I see with levitate at the moment is related to Flight of Eagles and buffing people who don't want / don't need the levitation portion of that spell, why not just create a second spell that doesn't have the leviation portion of FoE but has all the other benifits.

Or change the spell to cast two spells, Levitate, and Sow portion.

Personally I prefere the first spell option, Flight of Puffin's anyone ?

Gall

I hate leviate as well as some of you guys, but I don't want the bobbing removed

What is there to hate about levitate other than the bobbing?

Even though the bobbing effect is annoying, I have gotten used to it over time. HOWEVER... it's not only annoying but CRIPPLING to the game when a raid force has to use a levitate. Given a choice I'd get rid of the bobbing in a heartbeat!

I'm a 24/7 floater myself. I love to levitate and feel restrained when I'm not. /rude MPG!. I don't mind the bobbing effects at all unless I'm trying to target a corpse in OoW...man that's frustrating, haha!!

I do however like their proposed changes. I understand that much of the community hates the bobbing effect. I keep all my visual options at the minimum though, so even on raids I'm ok with the bobbing. I know most people don't like to do that though. I like that the recognize the need for a visual indicator. A particle effect would serve well, but it needs to be a seperate option like targeting ring for those that need to keep spell effects off at raids. I also really like the jump-to-rise feature proposed.