There has been an ongoing debate of sorts in my guild regarding the function / features of these two lists.

How they work, how they are connected, how they are cleared, etc.

I’m looking to the grove and the frequent knowledgeable posters to help me out and all guilds for that matter regarding the breakdown of these two lists.

I realize that much of it would be “common knowledge” and perhaps with a bit of digging one could find much of this information. My objective to this post is to have a one stop shop of sorts regarding this.

I’m really hoping some of the “ubers” would post as I’m sure they would have a lot to contribute.

Hate lists I’m less interested in as I suspect nearly every EQ user understands how these work (not to say that more information wouldn’t be appreciated). I’m very much interested in how a rampage list is created, maintained, cleared, how they differ from expansion to expansion, length of the list, effect of being on rampage, proc, range, etc etc.

If the post needs to be moved, please do so however I’d like it to stay here for a day or two to make sure it gets the proper readers/posters :p

I will not speak directly on the hate list (some hate list stuffs in here), but as for rampage here is what I can offer as I get on this list somewhat often. This is what I posted over on the guild message board that I belong to. The only thing I am not too sure of is if a mem-wipe gets you off the list as I have Fading Memories and it has not removed me from the list in the past.

On Rampage:

* Rampage only hits ONE person. All rampage that exists in Luclin and all previous expansions attacks only ONE player, period. A few rare mobs in PoP have AE Rampage...that's an entirely different beast.

* Rampage IS a proc. Rampage procs off of the normal attacks made by the mob you are fighting. If that mob isn't hitting anyone, you won't see any rampage messages. Also, because Rampage is a proc, DEX debuffs and other spells that decrease proc rate can indeed lower the rampage rate. Slows also reduce rampage rate because they reduce the rate of the normal attacks that proc rampage in the first place.

* Rampage NEVER hits the person who is currenlty being attacked by the mob. Your main tank will never be taking rampage damage while he has aggro on the rampaging mob.

* Rampage is a SINGLE round of attacks. The person taking rampage is subject to a full normal round of attacks. If the mob quads and bashes, 1 round of rampage will be a quad + bash (if bash is up). These attacks can be blocked, dodged, parried, and riposted normally.

* Rampage DOES have a range, and that range IS different from the mob's normal melee range. This range differs from mob to mob. Some mobs can hit you with their rampage attacks literally no matter where you are in the zone; they have unlimited rampage range. Other mobs have rampage range that is barely larger than their normal attack range. Rampage range usually is larger than melee range.

* Rampage does NOT follow line of sight rules. For normal attacks, if the mob can't see you, it can't hit you. Rampage works differently, and it will hit you even if you are hiding behind objects. If you are in range, you will be hit.

* Rampage DOES NOT key off the main hate list. This is the most common misconception about how Rampage works. Any mob that can rampage has TWO hate lists, not one. The mob itself keys off of the main hate list just as every other mob in the game always has. The second hate list is for Rampage, and it works VERY differently from the normal hate list. The rampage list is based on the agro list when the mob rampages the first time; after that it is set until the mob clears agro.

Here are the rules for how the rampage hate list works. These rules determine where the rampage damage goes.

* The order of the rampage list is based upon the order in which players gain aggro. As soon as you attack the mob, heal someone who is being attacked by the mob, or do anything else that causes the mob to aggro, you will be placed in the next spot on the rampage list. Once the mob rampages for the first time, this list is set in stone.

* NOTHING will get you off of the Rampage list except for Memwipe or camping out. Period. Feign death MAY get you off the rampage list IF you are lucky enough to score a memwipe when you feign. Even death does NOT ALWAYS remove you from the rampage list; many rampaging mobs will start beating on someone who died to rampage the instant they are resurrected.

* Nothing you do will move you up or down the rampage list. Taunt, evade, jolt, and other methods of controlling aggro such as chain snaring, stunning, hate giving and hate taking spells, as well as all weapons with hate generating procs all have NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on your position in the rampage list. Chain healing and chain nuking also have absolutely no effect on positions in the rampage list, although they will get you to the top of the main hate list fairly fast.

The list forms in the order the mob aggros people, and it stays in that form, never changing EXCEPT to remove those who have scored memwipes with Feign Death. You CAN clear the list by repeatedly casting memblur and memwipe on the mob you are fighting, BUT remember that this will also clear the main hate list and that can cause all kinds of problems.

Now, things to remember...

Remember, rampage DOES have a range. If you are taking rampage damange and move out of a mob's rampage range, it will start attacking the next person on the rampage list until you move back in range, then it will start beating on you again.

The rampage list is SET IN STONE, once someone sets themselves as Rampage, they take it till the mob is dead (dying and zoning dont reset ramp list, though mem blur does). This means if you know the order the mob aggroed people, you know exactly the order the rampage attacks will follow. This means you can control it.


Others can read this and clarify some points if I have posted some incorrect info. This appears to be pretty accurate from what I have seen and felt.

I still think dying or zoning takes you off the rampage list but leaves a hole in the list, so that the next person to be added to the list (often the person that just got rezzed after dying) gets that spot in the list. I've seen pets get on rampage surprisingly often even when they're not sent in until the fight is well under way, suggesting those pets might be filling those holes. I haven't gotten around to doing the test I proposed though.

Also, I believe rampage can hit the person at the top of the hate list IF no one else is in rampage range. I'd have to check some logs to confirm that.

There should probably be a mention of AE rampage too, even though I think it's a bad name for it.

Part of the debate was how you get "off" the list.

I was under the impression that even camping doesn't clear you off rampage.

I was also told the rampage list was only 10 long however I've got my doubts there as well.

I'm also told that rampage in Luclin is much different then in PoP but I'm not clear as to how it is different.

I think that, in general, the consept or rampage is the same, however pre-pop there would be a single target on rampage and in pop there is the "AoE" rampage, to which I cannot speak of.

Using Rumblecrush as the example I can verify 2 things:

1. mem wipe may not get you off the list. When we last did RC I pulled (brought him in slowed), I was his rampage target. He engaged him in the mouth of the tunnel right there at the ZI, I ran away as far as I could to avoid the first rampage round, I caught it, I then hit FM to mem wipe. I kept rampage. So I hit it again. That worked.

2. Now that I was off rampage my necro some how ended up on it, since it is tough to two box a bard and a necro I did not get to cast a dot till 80%, I dropped a few and suddenly I was the rampage target, not sure why, I was definately one of the last to engage him, unless it was timing, I cannot figure out why he ended up as rampage.

As for getting off the list, well, the necro died, and dulwin was then ramage again (I did nothing till after I saw a rapage go off, then I started songs, and engaged about 10 sec later). So it seems that I went right back on rampage and never actually got off the list, just managed to somehow delay it or something. I can test the death or zoning as a means next time we do him. Not sure about zoing, but I have seen the person that died to rampage pick up where they left off after a battle rez.

Here is the old post that was put up (and taken down pretty quickly, if I recall) from FOH's boards. Like others have stated, some of the things (such as multiple rampage lists) have changed since this post, but it remains one of the best informational posts out there.

<blockquote style="padding-left:0.5em; margin-left:0; margin-right:0; margin-top:0; margin-bottom:0; border-left:solid 2">Here are the FACTS about Rampage.

1. Rampage only hits ONE person. You will see a lot of folks claiming a Rampaging mob can attack more than one player at a time. They are dead wrong. All rampage that exists today in Luclin and all previous expansions attacks only ONE player, period. This is the second most common misconception about rampage.

2. Rampage IS a proc. Rampage procs off of the normal attacks made by the mob you are fighting. If that mob isn't hitting anyone, you won't see any rampage messages. Also, because Rampage is a proc, DEX debuffs and other spells that decrease proc rate can indeed lower the rampage rate. Slows also reduce rampage rate because they reduce the rate of the normal attacks that proc rampage in the first place.

3. Rampage NEVER hits the person who is currenlty being attacked by the mob. Your main tank will never be taking rampage damage while he has aggro on the rampaging mob.

4. Rampage is a SINGLE attack. The person who is being hit by rampage will be hit by one of the mob's normal hits. This attack can be blocked, dodged, parried, and riposted normally.

5. Rampage DOES have a range, and that range IS different from the mob's normal melee range. This range differs from mob to mob. Some mobs can hit you with their rampage attacks literally no matter where you are in the zone; they have unlimited rampage range. Other mobs have rampage range that is barely larger than their normal attack range. Rampage range usually is larger than melee range.

6. Rampage does NOT follow line of sight rules. For normal attacks, if the mob can't see you, it can't hit you. Rampage works differently, and it will hit you even if you are hiding behind objects. If you are in range, you will be hit.

7. Rampage DOES NOT key off the main hate list.
This is the most common misconception about how Rampage works. Any mob that can rampage has TWO hate lists, not one. The mob itself keys off of the main hate list just as every other mob in the game always has. The second hate list is for Rampage, and it works VERY differently from the normal hate list. Understanding how this second hate list works is the key to managing rampaging mobs.

Here are the rules for how the rampage hate list works. These rules determine where the rampage damage goes.

1. The order of the rampage list is based upon the order in which players gain aggro. As soon as you attack the mob, heal someone who is being attacked by the mob, or do anything else that causes the mob to aggro, you will be placed in the next spot on the rampage list.

2. NOTHING will get you off of the Rampage list except for Memwipe. Period. Feign death MAY get you off the rampage list IF you are lucky enough to score a memwipe when you feign, and we all know that's a crapshoot at best. Even death does NOT ALWAYS remove you from the rampage list; many rampaging mobs will start beating on someone who died to rampage the instant they are resurrected. Rumblecrush is notorious for this particular behaviour, so plan your battle rezzing with care and make sure you rez the dead outside rampage range.

3. Nothing you do will move you up or down the rampage list. Taunt, evade, jolt, and other methods of controlling aggro such as chain snaring, stunning, hate giving and hate taking spells, as well as all weapons with hate generating procs all have NO EFFECT WHATSOEVER on your position in the rampage list. Chain healing and chain nuking also have absolutely no effect on positions in the rampage list, although they will get you to the top of the main hate list fairly fast.

The list forms in the order the mob aggros people, and it stays in that form, never changing EXCEPT to remove those who have scored memwipes with Feign Death. You CAN clear the list by repeatedly casting memblur and memwipe on the mob you are fighting, BUT remember that this will also clear the main hate list and that can cause all kinds of problems.

Now, things to remember...

Remember, rampage DOES have a range. If you are taking rampage damange and move out of a mob's rampage range, it will start attacking the next person on the rampage list until you move back in range, then it will start beating on you again.

The rampage list is SET IN STONE. This means if you know the order the mob aggroed people, you know exactly the order the rampage attacks will follow. This means you can control it.

If you have Feign Death, and use it, you will NOT take any rampage damage while feigned. When you stand, you will immediately start taking rampage damage again UNLESS you scored a memwipe with Feign Death, in which case you are now at the very bottom of the rampage list. This is, of course, subject to the usual feign death bug... if the mob doesn't buy the feign for whatever reason, you will continue to take rampage damage while Feigned.

Monks usually pull Rampage tank duty, especially if they have Combat Agility 3. The reason for this is that they will get hit by precious few of the rampage attacks due to their unmatched combat avoidance.
The usual strategy...

First, everyone needs to make a hotkey to the effect of "TAKING RAMPAGE DAMAGE NOW" and spam it the instant they start taking rampage damage. Healers need to be ON THE BALL and tracking that message so they can keep whoever it is alive. As long as the person taking rampage damage is alive, in rampage range, and doesn't Feign Death, you have locked rampage attacks down to that single person.

When you engage a rampaging mob, have your main tank get aggro first. Immediately send in all of your Monks and have them attack ONCE only to make sure they get the mob's attention. Note, you MUST make sure your monks attack BEFORE the first heal lands on the tank, or else that healer is going to be the first to take rampage damage and die very quickly. With rooted mobs this is trivially easy to do... just have your main tank hit the mob with an arrow, and then each monk follows suit in exactly the order you want them to take rampage.

Once that is done, engage normally. The monks will spam their enrage hotkeys as they take rampage damage. As long as you have healers keeping up with it, you've got it locked down.

Yes, Clerics, this means you have two main tanks to keep alive. Cope. </blockquote>

<strong>I still think dying or zoning takes you off the rampage list but leaves a hole in the list, so that the next person to be added to the list (often the person that just got rezzed after dying) gets that spot in the list.</strong>

I'm pretty sure people just rezzed in can take rampage, and they should typically not even be noticed by a mob until they start doing things to get agro as engaged mobs usually shut down their agro radius checking routine, so they probably never leave the list. A handy trick for running around populated zones without killing stuff if you have a tough monk who can keep mobs engaged while you run past them.

I think theres actually at least 3 lists, a 3rd for temporary agro like sitting, low health etc. That might explain the weird way assist agro works. Good pullers have figured out that if you agro mob A, mob B who is nearby will assist and chase and any other mobs that mob A comes within range of will also assist and you can make a nice big train, however they won't assist mob B. So if you agro A with, say, a root, mob B will chase, but you can drag it all over the zone and nothing will assist it unless you do something to actually agro it like buff, heal yourself or nuke it, which makes pulling things like Chardok royals to the zoneline solo pretty trivial if you have faction. It also might explain why you won't take faction hits for /pet attack or healing people other than top agro.

Few minor points....

I'm not sure if it relates to rampages itself, because it may or may not be different then normal procs, but being slowed does not decrease the Average pros per minute, also innate procs (not weapon procs) have to connecto to process, I'm not sure if this is the same on rampage (to test would be quite easy have a Ranger WS or monk Voiddance a rampaging mob and see if anyone gets hits)

Some mobs will be more likely to place players higher on the agro list just for proximity. I have no idea if RC is that way, but it is possible to get onto the agro list because you were close enough, and other people were not on the list because they were farther away (or lower) when he first rampaged.

- Xylem, E'ci