View Full Forums : Censorship on Sony Forums


Zorx
12-17-2004, 05:28 PM
Noone should post on official EQ forums anymore. I started with a non insulting thread and look to what this developed....

It seems they just delete post they don't like now. And a community correntpondent flaming me and telling me I'm not a member of the community was the worst thing.

Well I guess it is time for me to quit EQ, I can't play this game any longer if SoE continues this player unfriendly behaviour.

The post on Sony board, including censored posts:


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-Zorx- (This post was censored twice, I kept reposting it under different subjects)
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Subject: Patch problem

My specialization skills were corrupted due to a bug in EQ. My specialization evocation was 200 and my specialization alteration was a bit higher than 100 because of a BUG. Some months ago I petitioned my specialization skills are not correct and in the patch 2 days ago they reset corrupted specialization skills, so I ended up having all my specialzation at 49.

I petitioned to get my skills back to 200 / 100, I don't want to hit 10'000 times on a spell cast button to CORRECT AN ERROR ON SOE SIDE.

First petitoin they answered i have to just raise my skill and if i get wrong ones past 100 i can do Solusek Temple quest...........

2nd petition they answered they are unable to set skill values in the database.

This is completely inacceptable. I am not willing to raise those skills that were BUGGED.

I am aware there are 3rd party cheat programs that would help raising those skills (unattended macroing). I don't use cheat programs.

I played EQ over 6 years, I was in original EverQuest Beta in 1998. I am one of the last customers staying this long, but this is too much for me, I am not willing to correct bugs on my own.

If Sony is not able to correct this I will quit to World of Warcraft - a step I don't want to do, but I'm not willing to play a game where players have to correct bugs on their own.

--Zorx, 70 druid

*edit* this message has been censored twice on this message board! Goodbye EverQuest.

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Kytherea
Community Representative
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Re: Patch problem


Please refer to this thread in which I and a developer have commented on this change.
http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=Shaman&message.id=3758&jump=true


Kytherea ~~The Orange Halfling...sometimes sweet & sometimes sour~~

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-Zorx-
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Subject: In response to the locked/censored thread

Kytherea, your answer is NO REASON to censor my post. And your reply in that other thread just shows how you treat your customers today.

I am sorry to leave this game after 6 years, I liked the game, but your recent behaviour makes players quit. You promise new things and you even mark certain things as "community requested" in your patch message. But if you censor my threads I really wonder how you get community feedback.
12-17-2004 10:48 PM Report Abuse to a Moderator



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Frodlin
Community Correspondent
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Re: In response to the locked/censored thread

You Zorx, are not "the community", you're an angry, hostile, little person on one corner of some obscure forum who is in dire need of a little censorship.

Warrior Class Correspondent

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Re: In response to the locked/censored thread
Options
Brenlo
Community Manager

Closing this thread. Please contact moderators privately if you have any concerns with thier moderation.

Thanks.

Brenlo Bixiebopper
Community Relations Manager

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** -Zorx- **
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[CENSORED POST2]
Subject: Well it seems I'm no longer a member of the EQ community!

Thats what a "community correspondent" tells me! I had a valid concern to post.

I think SOE should take more care in chooseing correspondents.

Flaming someone who had a valid concern is not an answer. Censoring posts of someome who had a valid concern is not an answer.

************************************************** ************************************

Ajjantis
12-17-2004, 05:44 PM
Reading that pisses me off in RL, sorry for that bro.

Crossposting something from my serverboad regarding to the low population on kanebayle.


You have been connected to CSR Nash K..
CSR Nash K.: Hello , Thank you for contacting Sony Online Entertainment. One moment please, while I read your question. Thank You!
CSR Nash K.: May I know your First name and last name?
Customer: Steve Grueber
Customer: My question is more of a request
Customer: I lead a Time guild on Kane Bayle
Steve Grueber: we have the lowest population to begin with and with the release of eq2 and wow our population is dwindling even further
Steve Grueber: we need some resolution to this problem because the 2 top guilds are now trying to recruit from each other because there are no people outside of those guilds to recruit
Steve Grueber: if there is nothing done we will be moving our guild to WoW
Steve Grueber: that represents $21,600 worth of revenue to you guys over the next year
Steve Grueber: we either need a server merger or an ability to move servers or you will lose not only my quild to a non sony product but probably the other guild as well
CSR Nash K.: Thanks for the information. The issue you are describing is an in game issue. Here at chat support we can only help with technical and account issues. To help our customers we have more than one support departments. I will not be able to help you for this issue as it is an In-game issue.
Steve Grueber: i would say its a biger issue then in game
Steve Grueber: who can i speak with regarding this that can actually make some sort of decisions
Steve Grueber: and an email isnt good enough because i have sent 10 emails with ZERO response to even one of them
Steve Grueber: and losing 150 accounts to blizzard is an account issue
Steve Grueber: i for one have 7 accounts myself , and i have put over 2 years into this guild and i dont want to see that wasted, that is why i am comign to you guys to first of all make you aware of it and second of all to get a resolution
CSR Nash K.: One moment please, while I transfer you to another CSR who has the ability to assist you further with your issue. You will be returned to the queue and a CSR will assist you immediately. Thank You, and have a nice day.
CSR Nash K. has left the session.
Please wait while we find an agent from the SOE HELP EVERQUEST II department to assist you.
You have been connected to CSR Jacob T.
Steve Grueber: hi jacob
Steve Grueber: can you read what i typed to the previous person?
CSR Jacob T: You cannot move servers at this time.
CSR Jacob T: Is there anything else I can help you with today Steve?
Steve Grueber: do you guys seriously want to lose this amount of customers to WoW?
Steve Grueber: a blanket answer of no isnt gonna cut it
CSR Jacob T: Well, that is the answer.
CSR Jacob T: I could lie and tell you YES.
Steve Grueber: im not asking you to
Steve Grueber: im asking if #1 you are aware of the issue and #2 if there is anything we can do
Steve Grueber: we want to stay in eq, but without people to recruit it wont happen
Steve Grueber: and instead of starting over in a different game we want to seek out a potential resolution
CSR Jacob T: You could submit a paid move request.
CSR Jacob T: The free moves are only done when the population is too high.
Steve Grueber: ok and what about the opposite problem?
Steve Grueber: or does that not matter?
Steve Grueber: $21,600 worth of revenue just from my guild in the next year and it doesnt seem to be an issue
CSR Jacob T: Well, we are going to provide special treatment simply because you are threatening to leave the game.
Steve Grueber: we want to stay , i have spent way too much time in this game to just give up on it
Steve Grueber: i played the beta for wow and i dont like it but my guild does..
Steve Grueber: im assuiming you meant to say we arent going to
Steve Grueber: are there any servers that are high population that you could offer a transfer to them to move them to KB? thus solving 2 problems at once
Steve Grueber: and if so let us know cause then we could post for recruits on those server boards
CSR Jacob T: That is a good idea.
Steve Grueber: i just want something to happen cause i fear my members are || close to leaving and i dont want that
Steve Grueber: we have dropped from 5 time guilds to 2 in a month on KB
Steve Grueber: there are zero EP guilds below us
Steve Grueber: so there is zero blood to recruit from
CSR Jacob T: Well, there is not much to it.
Steve Grueber: the 2 time guilds were best allies, and now were at each others throats to get each others members. they are in txevu and we just hit time so its tough
CSR Jacob T: Some players enjoy low populations.
CSR Jacob T: You could submit a paid move request and move to a server of your choice.
Steve Grueber: this isnt just me though
Steve Grueber: if it was just me i woudl do it
CSR Jacob T: Bristlebane, Stromm, and Maelin Starpyre are the most populated.
Steve Grueber: this is 150 paying customers that see the end coming
CSR Jacob T: Or, you could continue to lodge complaints such as this that will likely not be addressed.
CSR Jacob T: In game, you could use the command /feedback.
Steve Grueber: if i can come back and say to them i spoke with you and that they are going to do (insert solution) then they have something to hang on to
CSR Jacob T: That would be the best way to submit voice your concerns.
Steve Grueber: ive sent 10 emails and 5 /feedbacks and have not heard a single thing back from anyone
Steve Grueber: thats why im taking this approach as a last resort
CSR Jacob T: Where did you send the e-mail?
Steve Grueber: ive sent them to just about every address on the site
Steve Grueber: accounts, billing, customer service, the feedback one
Steve Grueber: i even sent one to our gm but found out he isnt there anymore
Steve Grueber: i phoned yesterday and was on hold for 2 hours and gave up on that
Steve Grueber: its like you guys dont care, if i ran my business this way id be out of business.
Steve Grueber: you have a customer coming to you trying to help you guys continue to retain a revenue stream
Steve Grueber: i wish i had customers that did that for me
CSR Jacob T: You should e-mail feedback@soe.sony.com .
Steve Grueber: been there , done that and ill do it again
Steve Grueber: i just dont want things to fall apart /sigh
CSR Jacob T: What GM did you e-mail?
Steve Grueber: his name was owen
Steve Grueber: ariemos or sumpin was his gm name
Steve Grueber: but havent seen him around in forever
Steve Grueber: the other guild leader said he wasnt a gm anymore /shrug
CSR Jacob T has left the session.
Your agent is experiencing technical difficulties. Please stand by while we re-establish contact or find a new agent...
Please wait while we find an agent from the SOE HELP EVERQUEST II department to assist you.
You have been connected to CSR Jacob T.
Steve Grueber: i am sending the email again, but i am not sure what if anythign will come of it since i have sent emails to this address b4
CSR Jacob T: What do you expect to happen. You expect us to transfer 150 characters for free?
CSR Jacob T: That is not very likely.
CSR Jacob T: You have been given a few options here.
Steve Grueber: im just explaining the issue
CSR Jacob T: Thank you for visiting our SOE Chat line, Steve. Take care and have a Good Day!
Steve Grueber: the only thing you told me is to pay for a transfer
Steve Grueber: that doesnt help the SERVER problem
CSR Jacob T: I also gave you info. on where to submit your feedback in game and through e-mail.
Steve Grueber: and i have
Steve Grueber: but obviously you arent in the position to see this as an issue and i need to speak with someone that really cares about the revenue stream and there customers.
Thank you for using InstantService. You may now close this window.

Honestly, they give a flying **** about their customer.

Aluaeia
12-17-2004, 05:58 PM
Most of us have known they don't give a **** for years. Why do you think they let people get away with rampant macroquesting and showeqing and general jackassedry? Answer: THEY DONT CARE.

Tiane
12-17-2004, 05:59 PM
Well we discussed the specialization reset quit a bit here, with a couple of ideas surfacing to ease the pain of transition showing up that seemed really good, but they were not implemented.

But as much as I despise censorship, did you read the thread Kythera linked? Maddoc posted a pretty good explanation as to why the reset happened the way it did.

This was an unfortunate and especially tricky situation to solve.

The Specialization system has no concept of how long you've had which skill at what skill level, so being able to reset the specializations by any sort of time-reference wasn't possible.

The issue caused by the Secondary Forte AA made it possible to get above 50 in at least two different specializations, and in some cases, all of them. In these situations, it could be almost impossible to determine which one the player wants to keep as their primary specialization, for instance:
Case 1:
Player has 200 in Spec: Evocation
Player has 200 in Spec: Divination
Which do you choose to reset


Case 2:
Player has 190 in Spec: Evocation
Player has 200 in Spec: Divination
Which do you reset?
We can presume that Spec: Divination is the one we should keep, since it's the highest in skill, but...
What if Spec: Divination was his chosen secondary forte, and it just happened to hit 200 before his primary?


Case 3: (Here's where it gets real tricky)
Player has 100 in Spec: Evocation
Player has 100 in Spec: Divination
Player has 200 in Spec: Alteration
Player has 200 in Spec: Divination
Which of these gets reset to 50, 100, and which stays at 200?
Each of the above-listed situations exist and there are many more permutations of them as well (more than I need to describe here), so making presumptions about a player's personal choice, especially when it comes to resetting skills that they don't have any method of preventing or easily correcting, is definitely a tricky issue.

The most fair method of dealing with this particular issue was to first check your specializations, and if it's been determined that your specialization skills are invalid, we reset your specializations to 49, such that you are able to choose which one you want as your secondary and which you want as your primary forte. It may mean a little casting of some low level spells to regain your skills, but in the grand scheme of things... That's a much better solution that being stuck with some specializations that you did not want or choose.

Message Edited by Dev-Maddoc on 12-17-2004 12:58 PM


________________________
Maddoc the Wayfarer
Assistant Lead Designer
EverQuest Live & Expansions
http://www.everquest.com

So, basically, your answers are in that thread. The rest of your post is just a flame against SOE, and I cant really blame them for locking it up on their own forums... they arent obligated in any way to host your complaints against them. The other thing is, there's no way they are going to say in a public forum "Hey go right ahead and page a gm, we'll allow everyone to request a fix to their specs." because that would cause an avalanche of work for whatever gm's they have left.

Yes, the post-reset situation could and should have been handled better. But getting upset at SOE for not letting you publicly rage against them on their own boards is kinda futile. Choose your battles.

Zorx
12-17-2004, 06:05 PM
just to add something they could have opened a window and asked "do you want to keep specialize evocation as your main specialize skill ?" [yes] [no] and everything would have been solved. It was simply a cheap way to handle this.

But its not about this anymore, it is about censoring my posts.

and a community correnspondant flaming me is very poor, this should never happen. A simple answer would have solved the issue, but they choose to delete posts.

--Zorx

Stormhaven
12-17-2004, 06:41 PM
A community correspondent is nothing but a volunteer who chose to say "Hey, ok, I'll go around to 101 forums and collect information about what concerns my class." They do this in their free time and have absolutely no straight ties to SOE - SOE neither pays them or tells them what/how/where to post.

If you're ranting about volunteers, you might want to try a board that's not run by them.

Zorx
12-17-2004, 06:58 PM
A community correspondent is nothing but a volunteer who chose to say "Hey, ok, I'll go around to 101 forums and collect information about what concerns my class." They do this in their free time and have absolutely no straight ties to SOE - SOE neither pays them or tells them what/how/where to post.

If you're ranting about volunteers, you might want to try a board that's not run by them.


I was not ranting about volunteers in general, but the fact that a community representative insults a player and tells him he isn't a member of the community is a poor choice of words. A community representative shouldn't attack or flame other players with no valid reason.

Aluaeia
12-17-2004, 07:39 PM
Kytherea isn't a volunteer, she's a SOE employee.

Edit: nm, I didn't read far enough, it was Frodlin the warrior asshat who flamed you.

Toprem
12-17-2004, 07:53 PM
Download the old Autofire program.

*edit - no personal attacks allowed. And yes I'm aware that Alu's post above is pretty borderline, but I read it as a criticism of the position, not the person. - Tia*

Zorx
12-18-2004, 05:24 AM
Download the old Autofire program.

Unattended macroing is (in theory) a bannable offense, and a cheat. So you suggest I cheat to fix a SoE caused bug!

I changed my specialization skills 3 times past few years. In original EQ I specialized alteration, during Kunark I specialized in Evocation, during Velious I specialized Alteration, during Luclin I changed back to Evocation, and that is what I was specialized until last patch.

I have no problem raising that skill, its a matter of a few hours, but

I don't fix bugs SoE creates, it is their thing to do.

Aly
12-18-2004, 05:47 AM
So sit at your keyboard and read a book while Auto-Fire skills up your specialization. That way if a GM questions you, you're there to answer their tell.

Toprem
12-18-2004, 11:39 AM
I have no problem raising that skill, its a matter of a few hours, but

Alteration went from 49 to 187 in one eight hour run of autofire, have fun.

Aluaeia
12-18-2004, 12:21 PM
Unattended macroing is (in theory) a bannable offense, and a cheat. So you suggest I cheat to fix a SoE caused bug!


SOE DOESNT CARE. (if you cheat or about the hardship of having spec reset.)

jtoast
12-18-2004, 07:47 PM
*shrug* back in the day we would be happy.....HAPPY I TELL YOU to only have to spend 8 hours fixing our character after a patch.

Look at it this way...do you really want to see what would happen to your toon if they actually tried to code a proper fix for this?

Zorx
12-19-2004, 04:54 AM
Well my two accounts are cancelled now and I installed world of warcraft. It's fun how smooth WoW runs on my 2nd computer. I always had problems running EQ on that machine, it just shows how bad EQ is programmed.

My 3rd petition was answered and the 3rd reason they don't change the data: there are too many people who petitioned about this and they decided not to change it.
Isn't it fun how every GM tells a different story...

I know, I could just run autofire over night and fix it myself, but it is the principle. It was a bug on Sony side and resetting a skill to punish those people who were affected by the bug is not a solution.

I am aware there were always bugs in the game, we were forced to cancel raids, we were forced to wait for patches, but so far this is first time they actually reset data of a char. What's next ? They remove levels ? They remove flags/keys ?

Deleting my (initial) post on Sony boards was another poor way to handle this situation. As Aluaeia posted: SOE DOESNT CARE. For me it is time to abandon this sinking ship. I can't play a game where players/characters are treated this way.

Aluaeia
12-19-2004, 09:16 AM
but so far this is first time they actually reset data of a char.

El Wrongo.

Iilane SalAlur
12-19-2004, 12:16 PM
Alternate advancements, flags, xp, gear... its all been reset before.

I guess for Zorx, the deleting of messages on the forum was last straw on the camel's back? Otherwise I can hardly believe anyone leaving over such a small matter.

Toprem
12-19-2004, 12:52 PM
but so far this is first time they actually reset data of a char

Bull****, you haven't been playing EQ for 6 years.

Arienne
12-19-2004, 03:05 PM
Two things....
SOE's idea of "multi-player interaction" is and I believe, has ALWAYS been that of pitting players AGAINST one another encouraging antisocial behavior. Their way of "fixing" things that they bugged (CRs with corpses stuck in walls, CRs when the server went down and a raid wiped at a critical point, losing experience - sometimes LEVELS of experience, etc) has always been "You'll have to do it yourself" or "surely you have friends you play with who can help you get this back". Two very contradictory philosophies coming from the same company.

Most players rarely or never need to use SOE CS. Those who do repeatedly tend to leave the game. I suppose it's the cost of doing business. They have to decide WHEN it's more cost effective to HELP a customer rather than LOSE one. I fully believe that it is now an established company policy not to help customers with replacement experience or skills that they can re-do themselves. In a way it's understandable because it's too easy to abuse the abilities they would have to permit the GMs to use. It would be costly to monitor this type of power, even if granted to their own staff.

Perhaps one day they will realize that it's cheaper to keep customers than it is to lose them, or perhaps they will roll the dice, let you leave and hope that you show up in EQ2. Most customer sentiments I have read show that those leaving due to disillusionment with SOE won't re-join them in EQ2.

Anyway, for now it's their gamble and you as a customer have given them ample opportunity to let them make their choice. It seems that they have made their choice abundantly clear. Now it's up to you to either follow through with your threats or let it pass.

Anka
12-19-2004, 04:46 PM
As a bitter old EQ player I know I shouldn't post much, so I'll just echo what the other people have said. I did find Sony's attitude to customers very poor. They actively tried to reduce customer service costs and restrict their support staff rather than empowering them. Testing seemed poor; they wanted all the advantages of a massive game world without the necessary maintenance. Patches regularly overran and needed repatches. Players took the brunt of technical failures. As an adult customer with real service problems I was usually treated like a whiney kid. All these problems are due to management failings and there's no reason to think they won't be evident in their other products.

Anyway the upshot is that EQ2 will need to gather a wonderful reputation before I'd even consider it. Sony have lost my dollars.

Kulothar
12-28-2004, 11:44 AM
As another bitter old EX-EQ player (well more old than bitter) I remember Xave and the wonderful CS that he provided. He even corrected something that was a mistake on my part once and one day did a 24 hr reset on my character to compensate for 7 un-rezed deaths of mine from a server multi-crash. (was in CT and the server kept crashing during a CR from the server crash..

But then that was before Verant sold EQ to SoE so I guess it doesn't count...

Truid
12-29-2004, 03:21 PM
Bull***** you haven't been playing EQ for 6 years.

Actually, I believe Zorx said he "played EQ over 6 years, [he] was in original EverQuest BETA in 1998." Unless you've lost the ability to count, wouldn't that equal 6 years? :twak:

Toprem
12-29-2004, 05:30 PM
That was in reference to the fact that he said theyve never done character rollbacks, if he had really been playing EQ that long he would have known theyve done it more than once.

alpurl
01-01-2005, 01:05 PM
It's amazing the number if disgruntled people Sony manages to dredge up.

I had what turned out to be a relatively minor issue, but it prevented me getting in game.

After the 12-15-2004 patch, I was unable to log into the game.

Patcher would run.
I'd get to the login screen, but I'd immediately get a timeout error when trying to connect to the servers after clicking on login. Just the same time delay you get if you enter a wrong userid and password. INSTANT.

First, I ran an advanced patch.
Same results.
Then, I restored a backup of my eq thinking that patcher downloaded a file that got corrupted in the process, and reran patcher with and advanced patch.
No dice.

Conclusion:
Since I was successfully online and playing the night before, something Sony did in the patch "broke" my EQ.

Connected to live chat for support.
Though I did not complain, the first rep knew squat and had about as much value to solving the problem as teats on a boar hog. The session was ended.

I started another session. The first tech admitted he was out of his league after every solution he suggested, I advised him I had already taken those steps with no change in results. I was connected to another rep within the same session. BillC. He knew his stuff fairly well. In trying to connect to sony's servers via a command line prompt with ping and tracert, I got an error message, I forget the exact verbiage, but, essentially, I had no dns resolution. When pinging specific ip addresses, I had like a code 21 or summat.

I was requested to send some information via email from some files.
Email got bounced.

I was connected a couple of times the next day and luckily enough wound up with BillC. The first tech advised me that SOE didn't support internet connection sharing. I flat out told him "I DON'T CARE." The problem wasn't with my internet connection, it was with Everquest, SOE's software.

The long and short of it was that I got absolutely NOWHERE with SOE, and they actually had to have someone call me who called while I was out at work. I received an email asking for some account specific info which I gave him except for account keys and credit card numbers.

In waiting for a response, I tried a few things on my own.

The ping and tracert commands yielded the same error messages regardless of what server I pinged and traced.

I Google search turned up a hit in the Microsoft Knowledge Base. FIREWALL, specifically Zone Alarm. Previously installed, and disabled cause I didn't want to take the time to reconfigure it.

I didn't totally get it disabled. A quick check turned up one file that was still running with windows. Once it was disabled, the problem was solved.

And, to think I was about to reformat my hard drive and reinstall a stable, working installation of Windows 2000 on my system.

Still wondering how the patch caused a problem when all was working well for months.

The response to my email when I submitted the requested information regarding my problem, the account, etc. came over a week later. AMAZING, speedy customer service there.

Aly
01-01-2005, 01:14 PM
The response to my email when I submitted the requested information regarding my problem, the account, etc. came over a week later. AMAZING, speedy customer service there. Start your own damn company then and see how easy it is to deal with customer service problems when you have 10,000+ people e-mailing you every day. And make it cost effective to run that department. I bet most companies just don't give a damn anymore about customer service because it's cheaper to lose a few customers than it is to take care of their problems.

Haillon
01-02-2005, 07:21 AM
sometimes ago the problem with SoE on AB was that if you were a High end guild you could get a gm to do everything but if you only was pre EP flagged guld they gave a **** about you. lucky for me i was in a High end guild, when i needen help.

but in IMO its bad custorms service if you only look at the guild and then decides to help.

beasthealer
01-03-2005, 08:15 AM
There are thing i expect a company to be able to handle and there are thing that i can't expect them to do.
Fixing there own bug is a must, takeing the responsibility for there own **** ups is a must.
Fixing a firewall problem is something i do not expect them to do, more so when i asume from your post that you didnt remember that you had firewall and was not able give them a push in the right direaction.

Kulothar
01-03-2005, 11:28 AM
The firewall problem was a stealth one when MS put out the updates for SP2. Lots of people with disabled firewalls suddenly had one fully enabled and knew nothing about exceptions or how to disable it again. Many of these people did not even know they had a firewall or what it was.

MOST games knew about the problem and how to fix it immediately because they listened to their players problems. Both CoH and WoW had messages posted how to fix the problem asap and I saw postings about it on several other gaming sites. I guess SoE was just too busy releasing EQ2 that they couldn't keep up.

Tiane
01-03-2005, 05:39 PM
The firewall problem was a stealth one when MS put out the updates for SP2.
Lets be honest here... the first time you boot up with SP2 you get a great big splash screen saying how SP2 comes with a firewall and that it's being turned on, in fact you cant even get to your desktop without clicking on a prompt or two about it.

Anyway, he was talking about ZoneAlarm... a third party product which he said he had installed himself.

Sorry, I dont have a whole lot of sympathy for user created problems when they start blaming someone completely unrelated for the issues, when the problem clearly started with the person sitting in front of the keyboard.

Kulothar
01-11-2005, 03:18 PM
Actually yes, SP2 did splash you with the Firewall warning.. That SP2 comes with a firewall. But to be specific, I know on my machine it enabled all 3 firewalls... XP's (which I didn't previously have active), Zonealarm (which I had disabled), and my router's internal one, on ALL of my machines connected to my server either wired or wireless. It tells you about it enabling the XP one but I considered the fact it shut down my entire network by activating ALL of the firewalls on ALL of the machines (Server, two workstations and my wifes mobile laptop) a stealth problem. Fortunately MS customer service(my router and wireless network are MS) had my network back up within an hour and WoW customer service had me up to where I could play WoW BETA again within 30 mins later. If I waited for SoE, SP3 would be out first.

When I left EQ, my last 7 petitions had gone unanswered even though I had been on as much as 8 hours after a couple of them. Two emails that I sent concerning bugs that either stopped quests or caused me multiple deaths had recieved replies that they were "looking into it" but no action or futher reply was ever recieved. Petitions were pretty much a joke to anyone in a non-EP guild.

Vekx
01-11-2005, 04:16 PM
It's amazing the number if disgruntled people Sony manages to dredge up.

I had what turned out to be a relatively minor issue, but it prevented me getting in game.

After the 12-15-2004 patch, I was unable to log into the game.

Patcher would run.
I'd get to the login screen, but I'd immediately get a timeout error when trying to connect to the servers after clicking on login. Just the same time delay you get if you enter a wrong userid and password. INSTANT.

First, I ran an advanced patch.
Same results.
Then, I restored a backup of my eq thinking that patcher downloaded a file that got corrupted in the process, and reran patcher with and advanced patch.
No dice.

Conclusion:
Since I was successfully online and playing the night before, something Sony did in the patch "broke" my EQ.

Connected to live chat for support.
Though I did not complain, the first rep knew squat and had about as much value to solving the problem as teats on a boar hog. The session was ended.

I started another session. The first tech admitted he was out of his league after every solution he suggested, I advised him I had already taken those steps with no change in results. I was connected to another rep within the same session. BillC. He knew his stuff fairly well. In trying to connect to sony's servers via a command line prompt with ping and tracert, I got an error message, I forget the exact verbiage, but, essentially, I had no dns resolution. When pinging specific ip addresses, I had like a code 21 or summat.

I was requested to send some information via email from some files.
Email got bounced.

I was connected a couple of times the next day and luckily enough wound up with BillC. The first tech advised me that SOE didn't support internet connection sharing. I flat out told him "I DON'T CARE." The problem wasn't with my internet connection, it was with Everquest, SOE's software.

The long and short of it was that I got absolutely NOWHERE with SOE, and they actually had to have someone call me who called while I was out at work. I received an email asking for some account specific info which I gave him except for account keys and credit card numbers.

In waiting for a response, I tried a few things on my own.

The ping and tracert commands yielded the same error messages regardless of what server I pinged and traced.

I Google search turned up a hit in the Microsoft Knowledge Base. FIREWALL, specifically Zone Alarm. Previously installed, and disabled cause I didn't want to take the time to reconfigure it.

I didn't totally get it disabled. A quick check turned up one file that was still running with windows. Once it was disabled, the problem was solved.

And, to think I was about to reformat my hard drive and reinstall a stable, working installation of Windows 2000 on my system.

Still wondering how the patch caused a problem when all was working well for months.

The response to my email when I submitted the requested information regarding my problem, the account, etc. came over a week later. AMAZING, speedy customer service there.

I also couldn't get in after the 12-15 patch. Talking to chat support, I can't remember his name, he said "disable ZoneAlarm". I thought why? It's been working fine for 3 years now? He just said ":trum me".

So I uninstalled and everything worked fine. I reinstalled and everything still works fine. So there WAS something about the patch that made EQ not playable for me. I CAN play with ZoneAlarm installed and running but I had to, for some reason, uninstall for the patch and reinstall.

SoE should know about these things ahead of time and offer advice. But above that, they shouldn't expect people to NOT have any firewall software running.

iegil
01-11-2005, 04:17 PM
I really have very little sympathy for anyone at SOE who decides that customers don't have a right to be satisfied by a product they are paying money for.

This action, among others in December, resulted in me cancelling 4 EQ accounts last month. I now have 2 WoW accounts.

I truly hope, with the EQ2 fiasco, the ruining of EQ1 for so many, the SWG blunders that SOE employee's rapidly see the unemployment line where they can then be faced with the same treatment they give from state employee's who really don't care if they eat tomorrow or not, as long as the form has the proper number of characters on it with the I's dotted, and the T's crossed.

Annonimity
01-11-2005, 08:57 PM
GM Ariemos is no longer with SoE. He now works for Blizzard as do a number of members of the EQ1 Guide Program and a further half a dozen SoE/Ubisoft GM's.

I played EQ1 for nearly 5 years and took SoE's junk on a daily basis....

I've played WoW live for around 5 weeks and USA beta from the beginning... Ive filed tickets reported bugs and everytime I have had either an email, an in game mail or a /tell from a GM saying what they have done to help resolve the problem and who it has been passed to - Yes, a real person not a email this bottomless pit email address and hope to hell someone replies sometime in the next 5 weeks.

See you all in WoW!

Anka
01-11-2005, 10:42 PM
I CAN play with ZoneAlarm installed and running but I had to, for some reason, uninstall for the patch and reinstall.

SoE should know about these things ahead of time and offer advice.

I have a zone alarm problem. After an hour of playing CoH or WoW it causes a disconnection. CoH support couldn't help me other than say ... "it's a firewall problem, trust me". They were right. Zone Alarm was cutting me off after an hour on the high security setting, but not on medium. Nobody else anywhere has had the same problem as far as I know. Firewalls can cause problems whatever game you're playing.

There's no need blame Sony for your firewall problem. There's plenty of other things you can blame them for instead.

Kulothar
01-12-2005, 08:59 AM
But at least CoH and WoW could tell you how to load the exceptions and what ports to open to let their game through the firewall. SoE has no idea, no notification and no support for the problem even though the ports have been used for over 5 years.

Any software that needs to pass through a firewall, yes you need to blame the company for the firewall problem since it is their program that tries to use a specific address in a restricted area. Quit defending SoE for shoddy support for a problem they are responcible for since they are the ones that designed the game to pass through those ports.

Anka
01-12-2005, 09:25 AM
But at least CoH and WoW could tell you how to load the exceptions and what ports to open to let their game through the firewall.

CoH didn't, actually. I've nothing good to say about SoE support at all, but after my experiences I don't expect any support team to resolve the unique peculiarities of ZoneAlarm.

jtoast
01-12-2005, 05:46 PM
But at least CoH and WoW could tell you how to load the exceptions and what ports to open to let their game through the firewall. SoE has no idea, no notification and no support for the problem even though the ports have been used for over 5 years. ummm...its Sony's job to tell you how to work your equipment? I disagree here. A simple google search using the phrase "open ports everquest" turned up a TON of results, all of which i clicked on (first 10 or so) had the information needed (http://kbserver.netgear.com/kb_web_files/n100495.asp) to solve your problem.

If that is too difficult, here is a cut/past from Sony's Tech Support page (http://eqlive.station.sony.com/support/tech_support/ts_network_support_firewall_proxy_info.jsp#ZoneAla rm)

Zone Alarm:

Double click on the Zone Alarm system tray icon (the system tray icon is located in the lower right hand corner of your screen where your clock is)
Click on Program Control
Slide the Tab to the LOW setting
Close the window out and run EverQuest
As for ports?
Patch Application:
A TCP connection is initiated from the player's PC (using ports numbered >1023) to patch.everquest.com, port 7000. There are multiple IP addresses for the patch.everquest.com clusters, and they may change as the network demands, so check often using a DNS lookup tool if you provide a specific firewall rule for patching.

EverQuest client:
UDP datagrams are sent to/from the player's PC (using ports numbered >1023) from/to the EverQuest servers (using ports numbered >1023). Additionally, ICMP Unreachables (ICMP type 3) are sent to/from the player's PC from/to the EverQuest servers.

The EverQuest server IP addresses are on the subnets:
64.37.148.* , 64.37.149.* , 64.37.150.* , 64.37.151.* , 64.37.156.* , 64.37.157.* , 195.33.132.*, 195.33.108.*, 195.33.133.*, 199.108.1.*, 199.108.2*, 199.108.3.* 199.108.4*, 199.108.5*, 199.108.13*, 199.108.9*, 199.108.15*

Please note that EverQuest opens a random UDP data port from the player's PC every time EverQuest is run. Thus, the need to have all ports >1023 available.

From the same page.


Blaming Sony for this one is like asking an exec from Chevrolet because you don't know how to fix a flat tire.........on your Daihatsu

Kulothar
01-13-2005, 01:37 PM
See Jtoast, in a simple search you accomplished something that a multi-million dollar corporation couldn't do concerning their product with a known problem affecting hundreds of users. This was specifically after a patch and not a preexisting condition or part of setting up either the game or firewall.

We are talking about after a patch they have no clue how to help you other than blaming your own hardward/software. At least when I contacted CoH they sent me an email with a link to the firewall information from their tech support. With WoW, I didn't even have to contact them. As soon as my connect failed it was listed as a probable cause and the specific solution listed step by step.

I at least know what a firewall is. You have a lot of people that play that have no idea and either there parent installed the firewall, it came with the hardware or they installed it since someone recommended it. Since it was working, when a patch makes it impossible to sign on, they have no Idea what the problem is or how to fix it. If they were LAN or Systems administrators they wouldn't have to contact SoE support.

I did not know that chevolet made Diahatsu but I bet you can get information from them on how to fix a flat (even though it is listed in the owners manual) a lot easier than getting information from SoE on how to fix problems caused by their updates. You obviously did not play EQ the first year it was out when there was a new bug every week (sometimes more) but the next day they would have it corrected or the fix posted.

Stormhaven
01-13-2005, 01:48 PM
Um, SOE can't tell you because their network programming sucks. They use random connection ports, they have no statics, nor anyway of forcing the client to use static ports. Imagine yourself as a sysadmin and think of what you would say if someone came up to you and said "I need all ports above 1023 to be opened." Not only do they use UDP packets, but ICMP as well. So, if there was a good way to open yourself up to DOS attacks, it'd be to allow EQ to connect freely over your firewall :P

Kulothar
01-13-2005, 01:54 PM
CoH didn't, actually. I've nothing good to say about SoE support at all, but after my experiences I don't expect any support team to resolve the unique peculiarities of ZoneAlarm.

Ahh, when I contacted CoH, it was about the XP firewall and they sent me a link with the list of exceptions and how to program them in. I disabled ZoneAlarm when I upgraded routers last year. As for WoW they list the exceptions and fix up front since they realize people with firewalls need the information.

jtoast
01-13-2005, 11:24 PM
I did not know that chevolet made Diahatsu but I bet you can get information from them on how to fix a flat (even though it is listed in the owners manual) a lot easier than getting information from SoE on how to fix problems caused by their updates. They don't.....nor does SOE build computers and routers was the point I was making. Yes they COULD tell you how to change the tire but it's not really their job nor their obligation.


You obviously did not play EQ the first year it was out when there was a new bug every week (sometimes more) but the next day they would have it corrected or the fix postedI started playing just before the launch of Kunark. I remember the patches. I remember being so pissed I went outside cursing and yelling at the top of my lungs for a good 15 minutes and 3 cigarettes the first time 6 yellow mobs insta killed me during my first quad after the patch where they made DD's break snare.I can and do blame them for that. I still curse them some days when I think of how pissed off that made me.

On the other hand, I understand that things such as firewalls and router configurations are MY responsibility not theirs. It would be nice if they tell me how to make EQ work with Zonealarm but its not their job in my opinion.

Blame them for bugs, memory leaks, graphics glitches, broken quests, and long petition wait times, fine. Blaming them because you don't know how to properly operate your own software and equipment is looking in the wrong direction. If EQ can't get past Zonealarm, the people to contact would be Zonealarm tech support not SOE.

iegil
01-14-2005, 01:56 PM
They don't.....nor does SOE build computers and routers was the point I was making. Yes they COULD tell you how to change the tire but it's not really their job nor their obligation.

Everquest is an aftermarket product. The analogy to a tire is like saying, Bush is a politician, he's responsible for the tire.

SOE is responsible for Everquest, and is obligated to tell you how to get it to operate in a myriad of environments. The fact that they do not publish firewall information is indicitive of the other ailments of the company. DD's breaking snare. Bards broken every patch. The list of crap SOE doesn't test before release is much longer than I care to waste time on.

Your defense of their failure to test and provide information about how to configure systems, well, is misguided. Afterall, its just indicitive of the larger failures in keeping players happy with working software patches and expansions.

Just look at the number of bugs in GoD Beta that were released. All could have been fixed before release if SOE had pulled its cranium out of its rectum.

Iilane SalAlur
01-14-2005, 02:22 PM
I believe jtoast occasionally bashes SOE too :p What he's saying here is that if its a bug in EQ, its SOE's fault. If its a bug outside of EQ, to a limited degree its not SOE's fault.

Having said that, you have to keep in mind that EQ is running on 5 year old networking code. The internet has changed a lot in 5 years, most notably security on a home PC is now a concern whereas 5 years ago very few people even thought of installing a firewall on their home PC. Give SOE 6 months, I am sure by then the networking code will be overhauled to work well with firewalls.

jtoast
01-14-2005, 02:24 PM
The fact that they do not publish firewall information is indicitive of the other ailments of the company. Except I have linked the page above to their tech support info regarding firewalls which has all the info needed for anyone even moderately familier with networking to solve basic issues such as opening ports.
Afterall, its just indicitive of the larger failures in keeping players happy with working software patches and expansions.

Just look at the number of bugs in GoD Beta that were released. All could have been fixed before release if SOE had pulled its cranium out of its rectum.I agree that GoD was a bugridden piece of crap. It was a bug ridden piece of crap in beta, was a bug ridden piece of crap at release and is, in my opinion, still a bug ridden piece of crap today. That's why I never bought it and probably never will.

Unfortunately most of the EQ playerbase(at least the ones on the boards) sometimes seem to be nothing more than non-thinking gerbils on a treadmill who buy the crap sony spews out without even evaluating the quality. Why would ANY company bother to thoroughly test software if they knew that people will buy it anyway?

*shrug* I think its time people took a step back and took some personal responsibility for things. If we all KNOW that an expansion is a bug ridden piece of crap, don't buy it.

If you don't know how to configure the ports on your router then its time to break out the owners manual. If you cant configure your firewall, then its time to read the FAQ section online.

There is no excuse for any online gamer to not have that kind of basic knowledge anymore.

Stormhaven
01-14-2005, 02:35 PM
Iilane, 5 years ago was just 1999 (well, 2000 now, but, blah blah). There were several people on ISDN or DSL or Cable Modems by then, not to mention home Linksys-type routers with built in port blocking and NAT'ing. Give SOE 6mo? The "all ports above 1023" has been true since EQ released, they're not going to (can't) change it now.

Iilane SalAlur
01-14-2005, 06:23 PM
Okay, my brand of sarcasm didn't work well this time, I'll improve :) I was actually thinking of the 'evac trigger after death bug' as I wrote the 'give SOE 6 months' reference. It was meant as a poke at how slow SOE is at responding to anything.

iegil
01-18-2005, 10:32 AM
4 Days since the last response to this thread, and its the most recent one. Either SONY is doing a wonderful job keeping the druids happy, or there just aren't that many left.

I would love to see the monthly statistics for bandwidth/hits for this site for 2004 on a month by month basis. I'm sure SONY should take notice when the most notable fan sites participation drops to nothing.

Iegil