http://story.news.yahoo.com/s/nm/crime_norway_sex_dc;_ylt=AtsBGNfqcTDQXorBDmtZ2xgDW 7oF;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl

Didn't want to derail the other thread anymore than it already had been.

Funny

Either the guy is married and covering his arse, or she was f'n ugly as all hell and had some kind of disease. What man calls free oral; rape?

Kalest MoonGlade
66th Stormwarden of Stromm
~Dragejegerene~

I would guess a man who woke up to find that someone was having sex with him against his will. I know some males might find that to be a dream come true (no pun intended), but other males might prefer they actually be asked and consent prior to the act.

I have a friend who likes to wake up her husband this way, and I'm guessing he doesn't object very much. Of course since you can have rape within marraige they'd better be careful now if they go to Norway on holiday.

I wonder how your friend's husband would feel if he woke up to that thinking it was his wife, but instead found some woman he absolutely detested.

For most men, what they felt would be directly related to the chance of their wife ever finding out...because it doesn't matter if you didn't want it, your wife will still take half of everything you own go find another man.

... your wife will still take half of everything you own go find another man.THAT, my friend, works both ways. It's NOT restricted to men alone.

/agree Arienne. I don't think it's gender specific, I think it's personality specifc.

However, the majority of courts usually side with the woman in most cases. Sure, men do win sometimes, but they have to have a good lawyer and do a lot of arguing to make their case.

Win what? I guess we do divorce differently in my state. You split the property, etc. It isn't based on winning or losing. Unless you're talking about custody, in which case, I believe women still usually end up with the kids. And that entails some obligation to help pay for the expenses of the little "fruits of your loins".

it doesn't matter if you didn't want it, your wife will still take half of everything you own go find another man.You mean, your wife will take half of what you <i>jointly</i> own, at least here in the Western states.

Win what? I guess we do divorce differently in my state. You split the property, etc. It isn't based on winning or losing. Unless you're talking about custody, in which case, I believe women still usually end up with the kids. And that entails some obligation to help pay for the expenses of the little "fruits of your loins".

Forget that.

If she wants custody, she can pay for them. Why should a man have to pay for kids he doesn't get to see?

You mean, your wife will take half of what you jointly own, at least here in the Western states.

Discussing the differences in state law regarding maritial property is going to be fairly lenghty as every state is unique one way or the other and in many cases the differences are huge.

Mine is a "community property" state and all assets of both people is considered to be jointly owned irregardless of when it was obtained (before or during the marriage) or by whom.

your wife will still take half of everything you own

Not in Norway, she won't. Half of what they - as a married couple - built together, yes. What he had and what she had before the nuptuals stays out of it.

I'm liking Norway more and more as I hear about it.

edit: Hmm, ADL says it was just a rumor. Cool, I guess I'm just liking Norway

Well assuming that it's true, he was well within his rights, any women would do the same thing if it happened to her. By same thing I mean if she liked it she wouldn't sue and if she was disgusted she probably would. What made me laugh is they thought 9 months was harsh, is that because she is a women?

I'm liking Norway more and more as I hear about it.

edit: Hmm, ADL says it was just a rumor. Cool, I guess I'm just liking Norway

Isn't that how most US states handle divorce? But yeah, I think N. European countries are actually pretty cool. I gotta go there sometime!

Mine is a "community property" state and all assets of both people is considered to be jointly owned irregardless of when it was obtained (before or during the marriage) or by whom.

That's unusual. Usually community property is that which is obtained during marriage with what was earned during marriage. What was obtained prior to marriage and inheritances are generally considered to remain seperate property unless converted to community use. However, usually, the disputes about community property are about what was converted to community use or not. Time passed, possession, usage and intent all factor into that.

Forget that.

If she wants custody, she can pay for them. Why should a man have to pay for kids he doesn't get to see?

No joke, child support it so messed up.

I'm liking Norway more and more as I hear about it.

edit: Hmm, ADL says it was just a rumor. Cool, I guess I'm just liking Norway

Says what's just a rumor? The conviction? That's real enough.

Wow, this thread got de-railed fast. Within the definition of rape that was given, it sounds like thats what happened.

I would also like to point out that just because you think someone might enjoy something isn't a reason not to get their consent first. How common is the defense that "she (the victim) enjoyed it" used by a rapist to justify their actions. During rape the body will often have physical reactions (arousal) that may not fit the true mental state of the victim (horror). I think that this is what makes rape more then just assault. It leaves the victim trying to reconcile their bodies reaction with their mental state.

What made me laugh is they thought 9 months was harsh, is that because she is a women?

It was because 1. it wasn't intercource, 2. the judge felt the risk of repetition to be slim to none and 3. we have lameass sexual assult verdicts here in general.

It was because 1. it wasn't intercource, 2. the judge felt the risk of repetition to be slim to none and 3. we have lameass sexual assult verdicts here in general.

Hmmm apparently you get 2 years minimum for just attempting to rape someone in the states. 9 months still seems pretty lax to me, I know nothing about Norway law though!

I know nothing about Norway law though!

Good thing you've got me then *modest smile*
(All punishments in Western Europe are generally a fraction of their US counterparts)

Says what's just a rumor? The conviction? That's real enough.

No, the rumor that Norway labels israeli products with yellow stars, so people can boycott them.

Evidently a Supermarket chain was going to do so..but decided not to.

Mine is a "community property" state and all assets of both people is considered to be jointly owned irregardless of when it was obtained (before or during the marriage) or by whom.That's totally wrong. California is a community property state. All property acquired before the marriage is considered separate, and you keep it for yourself after divorce. Most property acquired during marriage is considered community, and you share it equally upon divorce. Some property is considered separate even if you get it during the marriage (such as inheritances). You can also both agree before or during the marriage to change these default rules.

The community property system works similarly in Western states, as it is originally derived from the Spanish system. It is fairly logical, and the large wage earner has no grounds to complain about it after the fact.

No, the rumor that Norway labels israeli products with yellow stars, so people can boycott them.

Evidently a Supermarket chain was going to do so..but decided not to.

lol wth? uhm, no. You sure you don't have your countries mixed up, I'm fairly sure it would've been news here. Got a link or something? Or a name for the supermarket chain?

Actually, it seems that Coop Norge was going to boycott Israeli products, and decided not too.

I found some articles from 2002 about this, is that what you're talking about?

Aye, but the yellow star labels have been a persistant rumor...I'm glad I was propelled into further investigation.

Aye, but the yellow star labels have been a persistant rumor...I'm glad I was propelled into further investigation.

They -do- mark food here indicating where it's from, but it's not an Israeli-issue, it's a "tell ppl where the food is from"-issue. So there'll be "Cyprus potatoes" right next to the "Israel oranges" and "Danish beef".

They're huge on "buy local stuff"-here, so at least from a normal general consumer point of view, that is the reason for it, not some larger political issue (and yes, i realize that getting people to buy local goods -is- a political issue, but you know what i mean *smiles*)

Ugh! Glad I don't concentrate on "local only" foods. I'd get so tired of hamburger and hay.

*WARNING!!*: slight derail to derail incoming!!

But that reminds me of a story...

Years ago, when the USSR broke apart, a business acquaintance of mine went to Moscow to look the area over and assess the viability of building a private club there. He has been all over the world on similar missions and loves the local foods from every place he has been. In Russia the rail system is archaic and refrigerated storage is practically non-existent so when something grown locally is in season, THAT is the "specialty du jour" everywhere you go, and it's just about the ONLY thing you can get anywhere. They make it into soup, fry it, sautee it, eat it raw, make it into a salad, fricassee it, bake it... basically they prepare it anyway they can think of. Unfortunately, when he went, cucumbers were in season. I don't think he has had a cucumber since. :/

That's unusual. Usually community property is that which is obtained during marriage with what was earned during marriage. What was obtained prior to marriage and inheritances are generally considered to remain seperate property unless converted to community use. However, usually, the disputes about community property are about what was converted to community use or not. Time passed, possession, usage and intent all factor into that.

That is proabably true in most states and even in other countries, like Norway.

In Wisconsin's version of "Marital Community Property" however the second you are legally married was is yours, is also your spouses. In fact unless there is a prenuptial agreement, when you die everything becomes the property of your spouse regardless of what your Will might say.

That's totally wrong. California is a community property state. All property acquired before the marriage is considered separate, and you keep it for yourself after divorce. Most property acquired during marriage is considered community, and you share it equally upon divorce. Some property is considered separate even if you get it during the marriage (such as inheritances). You can also both agree before or during the marriage to change these default rules.

Like I stated to begin with, arguing about the differences between state law even amoungst ones that are fairly simliar is fruitless.

Ugh! Glad I don't concentrate on "local only" foods. I'd get so tired of hamburger and hay.

LOL! That made me laugh. Hey, protein and fiber.

All property acquired before the marriage is considered separate

Partially correct.

If an asset that was owned previous to marriage increases in value during the marriage, that increase is community property.

Say stocks, or your home, any investment including retirements, increases the difference is now community property.

The property, and the rights to it, still belongs to the individual, but the money that would be netted if the property is sold is community. If I own a home, say I bought it for 100K, get married, stay married for a few years, the home is now worth 500K, get divorced. I have to split the 400K.

If I don't have that 200K in other liquid assets, I am forced to sell the home to give to the other party.

You may claim that this is a technicality. But it is a real and common, very common action during divorce. If I have to sell my property upon divorce and give the person 200K for something I already owned prior to marriage-it really is your point that becomes moot; that is, that I get to keep all my **** that I owned before I got married.

Partially correct.

If an asset that was owned previous to marriage increases in value during the marriage, that increase is community property.

Say stocks, or your home, any investment including retirements, increases the difference is now community property.

The property, and the rights to it, still belongs to the individual, but the money that would be netted if the property is sold is community. If I own a home, say I bought it for 100K, get married, stay married for a few years, the home is now worth 500K, get divorced. I have to split the 400K.



Yes and no. Depends on the usage. If you use it as the family home, then yes, it does/can convert to community property. However, if you have a property that is never used by the community/family, keep any proceeds and accountings seperate, it can remain seperate property, including appreciated value. Of course, as pointed out, each state's laws vary in application.

Of course, as pointed out, each state's laws vary in application.

Of course.

He mentioned California. I was describing California.

ANY appreciation of any previously held properties is community property, in California. And of course depreciation is community property as well. But that is just boring accounting stuffs there.

See what you have here is a Lawyers wet dream - laws written so vaguely that anything and everything consdiered an asset can be argued over at several $100 per hour.

Wouldn't be so lucrative if people didn't jump into marriage *cough*

Seriously, don't blame the lawyer. Its not his fault that you need his services. Next time, either plan ahead of time, or stay together. Forever.

Or kill your mate.:axe:

Ugh! Glad I don't concentrate on "local only" foods. I'd get so tired of hamburger and hay.

I said goods, not food. And if you didn't have a huge "omg buy local"-thing yourself over the pond there, you might actually be driving proper cars :P

*ducks and runs*

Name a proper car...odds are decent its owned by an american company ;P

If an asset that was owned previous to marriage increases in value during the marriage, that increase is community property.You're wrong. If an asset is separate, the appreciation is separate.

You're likely confusing this with the (very common) situation where the family home was bought before marriage, but is subject to a mortgage, and that the couple pays down the mortgage with funds earned during marriage. <i>THEN</i> the house partly belongs to the couple, and that same percentage of the appreciation also belongs to the couple.

The point being: Aidon, move to California. It sounds like you'll like it a lot out here. <img src=http://lag9.com/biggrin.gif>

Someone would have to pay me alot of money to live in California...earthquakes, fires, mudslides, gun control freaks, restricted water usage....oh the list could go on.

Name a proper car...odds are decent its owned by an american company ;P

I know - so why do you resist buying them so much? :P

You're wrong. If an asset is separate, the appreciation is separate.

You're likely confusing this with the (very common) situation where the family home was bought before marriage, but is subject to a mortgage, and that the couple pays down the mortgage with funds earned during marriage. <i>THEN</i> the house partly belongs to the couple, and that same percentage of the appreciation also belongs to the couple.

I should have requested you as the Family Law Court Judge who presided over MY divorce.

I know - so why do you resist buying them so much? :P

Because they are expensive?

I know - so why do you resist buying them so much? :P

Heh, I own a Chevy.

Where you you live, Aidon? For some reason I think it's NY, but I don't know why I think that.

Someone would have to pay me alot of money to live in California...earthquakes, fires, mudslides, gun control freaks, restricted water usage....oh the list could go on.

Beaches, sunshine, reasonably good Freeways (though a little densely packed), tropical climate in the south, cool climate in the north, San Francisco, buildings built to probably the strictest earthquake code in the world. Man, you have an earthquake anywhere else in the US and you're gonna see cities turned into pancakes. Where I live you can snow-ski or surf within easy distance.... not that I do either, but I could if I wanted to! And grow papayas, avocados, and weird exotic fruit in your backyard! Or you can drive to San Francisco and see weird exotic fruits all over the place!

The biggest problem with the Bay Area is the cost of living is through the roof. Mainly housing costs are freaking insane.

It's true in So. CA too. In fact, I think San Diego might have overtaken the Bay Area in housing prices. My house I bought for 167,000 in 1997 sold (neighbor sold their house, same model as mine) for 425,000 over a year ago. Since then, prices have increased another 20%. It's a bubble though. Gonna pop. Splat. *cry* bye-bye paper wealth.

Where you you live, Aidon? For some reason I think it's NY, but I don't know why I think that.

NY? Bleh...how many times have you seen me post Go Buckeyes! posts, or had my Ohio State avatar up, Pan? =P

I live in Ohio.



The big problem with California is there are too many far left liberals there...granted, better 50 million far left liberals than 50 million Christian Crusader types, but modern California liberals scare me...no guns, can't even think bad about anyone,teach kids in schools in ebonics and spanish, ban nukes, and create abberations like california pizza (I firmly blame California Dems for the idea of putting BBQ chicken on a pizza, you dirty bastards).

Though I wish I could annex San Diego/ La Jolla and make it my own personal prefecture where I could be a benevolant dictator. That is one beautiful area...and they have seals..on rocks, live wild not behind plexiglass seals. So cool. (Damned shame that I spent roughly 3 months in San Diego and had to spend all but a few days at the MCRD).

Name a proper car...odds are decent its owned by an american company ;P
Toyota, Nissan, Honda, Volkswagon, Land Rover, all the Korean companies (you said decent though...)

Ohio?!?!!! OMG... that explains a lot. *makes the sign of the cross*

All my relatives are from/in Ohio. I used to say that if I were president I'd make Ohio leave the union. ;)

I'm oblivious to sports references pretty much.

You have... tornados! Phew! That's one natural disaster I hope never to experience. I used to have nightmares about smart-tornados chasing me down. I think Wizard of Oz used to scare me.

As far as labeling food, they should definitely label Ohio food. It has cooties.

The CA legislature does have some kooks in it, but I think (hope) a more centrist legislature will develop someday.

Yes, the seals are back in the Children's Pool in La Jolla. Actually, I heard someone talking about getting stuck in a traffic jam because a baby seal was waddling down the street. Hee!

But man, Monterey is purdier than San Diego, IMHO.

but modern California liberals scare me...no guns, can't even think bad about anyone,teach kids in schools in ebonics and spanish, ban nukes, and create abberations like california pizza (I firmly blame California Dems for the idea of putting BBQ chicken on a pizza, you dirty bastards).
I firmly believe that being able to put whatever one likes on a pizza is constitutionally protected by the 1st and 2nd amendments. If I want pineapple and a Glock 17 on my pizza then that's my business and nobody should interfere.

Wait a sec... what is a CA pizza? I missed that one. I don't even know what it is. BBQ chicken on a pizza is CA pizza? Didn't know that. Who gets the blame for putting Jalapeno peppers on pizza? I kind of like that one.

Lets talk about Ohio cuisine... lets see, what cuisine splendors have originated in Ohio? Gotta be something made with Velveeta.

Wait a sec... what is a CA pizza? I missed that one. I don't even know what it is.
Short answer: It's pizza where you can get just about anything as a topping. Eggplant, radishes, coconut, BBQ chicken, you name it.

Here's one of the culprits:
http://www.cpk.com/menu/pizza.cfm

I don't care much for their pizza but I've had pizzas with similar toppings from other places that have been pretty good.

Lets talk about Ohio cuisine... lets see, what cuisine splendors have originated in Ohio? Gotta be something made with Velveeta.

Cleveland Ohio is the Pizza Capitol of the world. It has more Pizza Parlors per. capita then Italy.

I should have requested you as the Family Law Court Judge who presided over MY divorce.If you're interested, read the case <a href=http://login.findlaw.com/scripts/callaw?dest=ca/calapp3d/130/426.html>Marriage of Marsden</a>.

Cleveland Ohio is the Pizza Capitol of the world. It has more Pizza Parlors per. capita then Italy.

Little Italy in Cleveland is just plain divine for italian food...omg /drool.

I was under the impression pizza was like fortune cookies, they are tied to an ethnic style of cuisine, but were created in the US. Could explain why a city in the US would have more of them.

Of course, I've been known to be wrong.

Cleveland Ohio is the Pizza Capitol of the world. It has more Pizza Parlors per. capita then Italy.I bet that has expanded more than a FEW bottom lines!

Original pizza was created by cooking flatbreads on the hot hearthstones near fireplaces in the mediterranian region long long long ago, then dumping whatever happened to be available on top of the flatbread while it was cooking.

What we think of today as "pizza" is nothing at all like the original, and if you have pizza in Italy, it is really much at all like the pizzas we order from restaraunts.

What we think of today as "pizza" is nothing at all like the original, and if you have pizza in Italy, it is really much at all like the pizzas we order from restaraunts.

The pizza as we know it can't have been around for long because I think that the Tomato is a "New World" fruit. One of the first "authentic" pizza's is the Margerita it was created in Naples. One day the king and queen were visiting Naples and they had one. She liked it so much they named it after her. Now days you can find the Margerita pizza almost unchanged at many pizza parlors around the world. There is even a Margerita pizza council (mafia) that sets standards and determines what can be called a true Margerita pizza. Boy I watch too much Food Network.

I actually had the best Italian food evah in Paris, France. Super yum. I wasn't expecting that.

CPK is just plain nasty. I went there once, and that was more than enough for me. I'd rather go to Dominos (and I hate Dominos) than go back to CPK.

Best Italian food I ever had was in . . . . . Italy.

Whether it was eating in the lakes region of Como, the Tuscan hill country south of Florence, or looking out over the Mediterranen while eating seafood near Portofino - hands down the best food I have ever had in the world. Italian or not.

Humph! Show off! I hope one day I will get to travel to Italy and try some real Italian food.

Haven't been to Italy yet! I think there might be a trip coming up in a few years. 3 weeks in Rome is the plan, but I want to spend a bit of time in Tuscany, simply because everyone seems to love it.

I'm thinking more Naples to see Vesuvius and Herculeum. I also watch too much History channel too.

Oh yeah! That history channel thing on Vesuvius was really good.

Best Italian food I ever had was in . . . . . Italy.
Amen. The wine is damn fine as well.

I'm thinking more Naples to see Vesuvius and Herculeum. I also watch too much History channel too.
Sadly, the brothels closed 2000 years ago due to problems with pyroclastic flow.

Sorry about that, but I am probably a little older than most of you and have a better capability to do such things at this point in time..

A group of us did Italy this last October, people we met during an organized bike trip in BeNeLux in '97. We also did Paris & Provence in 2001.

And instead of going somewhere new or back to the one of the other two, I will take Italy anytime. The scenery, the architecture, the people, the women, and the food and drink are simply out of this world.

Being of an Japanese heritage, I'd rather go back to Japan than visit anywhere in Europe, personally :)

Best Italian food I ever had was in . . . . . Italy.

Whether it was eating in the lakes region of Como, the Tuscan hill country south of Florence, or looking out over the Mediterranen while eating seafood near Portofino - hands down the best food I have ever had in the world. Italian or not.

Have you ever had falafel from a street vendor in Kiryot Echron in Israel (or Tel Aviv or Rehovot, or Jerusalem, etc)?

That's the best food I've ever had in the world..omg, so good. I miss it much...its a real bitch to find good falafel in the US.

Though, a close second is a men's club beef cook out in Buenos Aires. So many cuts of some of the best beef in the world.

I don't know Stormhaven you might want to rethink that . . .

In addition to the Americans and the Germans and a whole bunch of other non-Italians - seemed like half of Japan was in Italy.

And for the bect Gyros I have ever had, try the ones that include shredded cabbage instead of lettuce from the street vendors in Brussels, Belgium near the main square.

I've been to my fair share of European countries, and I must agree that Italy is the best for food. I drool just thinking about it. Combine a great pasta dish with a good Italian red wine, and top it off a hunk of Parmesano or Romano cheese -- absolute heaven.

The worst pizza I ever had was in Paris. Take an underbaked pizza crust that you can still manipulate like raw dough, put on whole cooked tomatoes, chunks of meat, and pour oleo over the whole mess --- yeuccch. I had shark fin soup as an appetizer. It was a grey gelatinous concoction with tiny slivers of meat. To this day I equate shark fin soup with hot snot.

My experience with food in France has been underwhelming. Notable exceptions are eating fresh French stick with cheese on the banks of the Seine, and true cafe au lait (50% warm milk, 50% coffee) at a Workers Centre in Chenonceaux -- it was too early in the year and the youth hostel was still closed, so the friendly folks at the centre allowed us three Canadians to stay for the night.

England was even worse for food. It's hopefully changed, but warm beer just doesn't cut it, even if it's dark beer. I don't think Brits have heard of spices. Pub chips (french fries) served in newspaper was ok, but I've had better chips in Canada. The food was horribly expensive. I'm reminded of the old Heaven and Hell joke. Heaven was British policeman, German engineer, Italian lover etc... Hell was a British chef, French engineer etc.

Scandinavian food is good, but nothing sticks out as particularly notable.

Great European food experiences for me include,
- Trout, chanterelles and Black Forest cake in the Black Forest region.
- Bratwurst in almost any part of Germany.
- Nieuwe haring (delicately smoked herring) in the Netherlands.
- Old Gouda cheese in Gouda, the Netherlands.
- Mussels from Belgium.
- Fondue in the Grindlwald/Interlaken region of Switzerland.
- Schnitzel in Vienna (especially Jaeger schnitzel).

I like beer, and with a German heritage I would be expected to favor German beer, but take it from an 'expert' --- Dutch beer is better --- and I'm not talking about the crap Heineken that is exported. Nothing beats Grolsch or Oranjeboom. BTW, the worst beer in Western culture is brewed in the U.S. I don't know how you guys put up with it. Even beer imported into the U.S. is different (worse) than native brews.

Nothing beats Italy for food though.

Thicket, I think you need a good travel guide! I found amazing food in Paris and London. I traveled with a friend who is a "foody" and she researched where to eat. In fact, she kind of drove us nuts reading critiques of all these restaurants. She spent the ENTIRE vacation talking, thinking, planning where to eat next. Although we nearly strangled her, we did eat well!

And in London, you really should eat Indian food! Wow! They do Indian really well!

Yes, the major American beers are awful. But we do have some good microbrewry beers.

The problem with american beer is its like a sex in a canoe... its f'ing close to water (sorry, had to stick monty python in there). There are some good darker beers; stuff like Shiner Bock are ok, and I like the dark Sam Adams. But yes, if you want real beer, go out of the country.

BTW, the worst beer in Western culture is brewed in the U.S.
Some of the best beer in Western Culture is also from the US. The burgeoning micro/craft brew industry has been very, very good to the US.

But yes, if you want real beer, go out of the country.
Or shop for beer someplace other than a 7-11.

What's a 7-11? I'll assume its a convience store. I don't go to those for beer. I can't buy beer yet, I'm only 20. But I go into liquor stores with my friends who are old enough, and we don't get anything like budweiser, coors, or the like. Well, MGD is ok every now and then. Fat Tire is fine too. But we usually go for the import stuff. Its amazing that some of the Japanese beer we find is better than stuff from the US. And that's what I meant by "leave the country." Don't be so literal.

I think he was taking you to task for not recognizing the great American microbrewery beers. :D Which you couldn't buy at a convience store generally.

The food in Paris and in France in general was great.

One tip though which I will credit to Rick Steves of "Travels in Europe" fame, and that if the menu is in both the local language and English - forget it as you are more than likely in a tourist trap that will feature over-priced sub-standard fare.

I went to France (Paris, Asisi (sp?), Florence), the food was horrible.

I went to Italy (Rome, Napoles (sp?), Capri island) the food was GREAT!

Sorry i dont know how to call those in english, usually for me it's Asis and Napoles in spanish :)

Maybe it isn't the region, but the restaurants.

Maybe it isn't the region, but the restaurants.Maybe it's neither and all boils down to personal preferance :)