It appears that there may only be 5 new zones in the LoY expansion:

everquest.station.sony.co...llrock.jsp (http://everquest.station.sony.com/legacy/brokenskullrock.jsp)

That seems like quite a rip-off to me, if that is the case. I hope Im reading that wrong.

I am not suprised by the small number really.

Seems to me the good news is that 3 of them are dungeons. FUN!

And one is a hidden lagoon with a Pirate ship. The private Pirate ship which holds the head troll dudes bootie.

Hey it may be limited but this sounds like MUCH fun, and potentially very imaginative. And all of the othe stuff coming out is pretty cool too.

My hope is that there are multiple high level dungeons and these 5 are just the tip of hte iceberg, but if not, it will still be a neat place to explore.

<em>*hugs his soon to be new Guild Management Tools*</em>

I donno 5 zones - no Veksar - sounds like the suck to me.

heh. more mid 30s dungeons, just what the game has been sorely lacking!

Is it my imagination or all of them indoor zones?


No sow..... :(

Yay for run speed 3!

- :)

If there are only 5 new zones you get to pay $4.00 per zone. I am sure that is less than the usable zones in PooP ;)

What really sucks is the zones that they've hinted at (Veksar, Unkempt Woods, etc.) are nowhere to be found, but they give 5 zones nobody were really dying for... Maybe they'll surprise us, but i seriously doubt it.

They look like good zones but I do have to wonder that if Unkempt Woods isn't included then what was the point of all that lore book stuff in the PoK library. It seemed to be preparation for a new zone.

Only 5 zones, then what exactly are they going to be downloading in the other 100M that's supposed to be in LoY? You can't tell me that the Guild tool interface, a new LFG box, and new frog animations will take up the rest.

Hopefully, the rest of the zones won't go in until Live Day, and will be kept a secret. Actually, that's fairly plausible - we could have heard the "rumors" about the start of the new areas, and will find the rest when we start exploring.

I'd pay $20 just for the extra bank space.

See people wouldn't believe me before :) Well there is the possibility that they are just talking about the new island and the content reliant on the storyline. Possible that there are more (like Neriak Palace) that aren't to do with the story.

Although I'm sure that if Verant don't have to give it to you they won't try too hard to give it.

Suddenly i'm very glad i've put off ordering LoY this long. Bank space and charms aren't moving me to throw my $20 into the pot...

Well, no one says that is <em>every</em> zone. Remember, they didn't tell us all of the Planes before PoP was released either. However, Smedly did say there would likely only be 6 zones in LoY and they listed 5 (possibly one of the zones is 2 sections, too).

I think the main draw with LoY is supposed to be the additional features and not necessarily the new zones.

For me, exploring the new zones is the best part of the game. I will happily pay for that. At least with these zones, so far, does not look like flags, bells, keys and your firstborn are required to utilize the zones.

Also, this extension did not cost nearly as much as the others, that is a plus.

As a price-value issue I don't have a problem with it being only a half dozen new zones. Not too bad.

But as a practicality of how it's going to be, that's another story. Get used to hearing "Nadox camped" when you zone into the crypt for the next 2 months. :evil:

Just be glad your not a Troll they cant fight in there home so it would really suck.

I'd say judging by the story line the Broken Skull Clan is opposed to the Grobb clan, so in actual fact Trolls have more reason to kill there than anyone else, after all they have to try and get the tablet back.

The zones look great imo. I just hope there's content for the 60+ crowd to enjoy...not likely but never hurts to hope ;p

Have to say I'm liking this expansion, from what I've read so far.

Well, they do call it an extension, and not an expansion...whatever that means...

Hey we get to kill trolls! What more could everyone wany!?!!?

My guess is that the Crypt that is described and the hidden harbor will be very high level areas ala Chardok/Akheva level mobs. With the Hidden Harbor being the highest level with 50+ regular mobs and up to level 60-62 named mobs. The mines will probably have a max level of 40-45 named mob with most mobs being level 30-40 ala Sol B, Droga, Crystal Caverns etc. Also with a starting city here, my guess is that somewhere there will be a newbie killing area.

All this is based on speculation and no knowledge, but it all seems to fit with what has been described and with the kinds of zones SOE has produced in the past. Also I would expect the zone loot tables to be poorly thought out like the old Chardok and the current Akheva and all of PoP.

Pictures look great, screen shots look same is its ever been. Had a flash of playing EQ2 or SWG looking at the art work...for a second I thought those were the zones. Oh well newly shaped mobs and rocks to fight amoungst. At least my system will have to support good looking frog fools running around these zones.

This info release has put me back on the fence leaning toward not getting the game. I will have to check the shots on my home system but they seemed quite dark and untelling.

I can't say I expected any more from SOE. The smallest expansion yet, with fewer production/distribution costs than any expansion yet, ZERO profits going to retail, and yet still virtually the same cost to players as the other expansions. My mom got all of our copies of PoP for $20 at BestBuy. I thought <em>that</em> was a rip off. I guess after selling so many copies of PoP to people who only got to see 4 hunting zones, they figured, why not try to do it again. LoY is worth $10 max. But far be it for SoE to pass on any of the savings of an online-only expansion to the players. I want to buy LoY from a retail store just so SoE won't get such a sick profit margin.

My only question is what type of exp system will they place in these zones?

PoP exp, or pre-PoP exp?

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> yet still virtually the same cost to players as the other expansions. My mom got all of our copies of PoP for $20 at BestBuy. I thought that was a rip off. I guess after selling so many copies of PoP to people who only got to see 4 hunting zones,[/quote]
Remember, POP is the "highend" expansion. Not every zone needs to be an accessible to everyone EXP zone, you pay for the expansion, not the right to all new content.

Well so much for being able to hit SoE where it hurts. If people are going to pay $20 'just' for the bankspace or 'just' to explore 5 new zones that means SoE will be cranking out scam expansions for years to come. It's no wonder they have stayed afloat with people like that as customers.

Seems to me unlikely they would preview ALL of the new zones prior to release...

Keep raging against the machine Mossglade!

I just thought your post was funny ;)

"It's no wonder they have stayed afloat with people like that as customers"


Yeah, but they wont have that advantage forever. At some point the playing field with the mmorpg's will be equal with no prior investments of years already into a SoE product like people have in EQ. People have years invested into their EQ characters and friends they made along the way. Thats the biggest advantage Verant has, and why they could do whatever they wanted and still retain most of the playerbase no matter how much they screw them over. I dont think you can blame the players after such a longterm committment has already been made to their characters and friends. ITs very difficult to just leave all of a sudden, and throw it all away.

Like i said though, Verant wont always have the players in the position they are now )

Yeah, and Verant/Sony is likely the last company to have this sort of advantage. The second generation of MMORPGs is just around the corner and just about every big name company is hoping to be the next EverQuest.

Unfortuantely for them, there likely won't be another MMORPG as successful as EverQuest purely for the fact that it'll be hard for any company to rule above the rest when every player wants something different.

This basically means that companies will be a lot more willing than Verant/Sony has been to satisfy their customers b/c they'll know their customers aren't as permanent as they are in EverQuest right now.

/agree Broom

Our biggest problem right now (as players) is competition....namely that there isn't any. I will still give props to Verant/SOE for making the best MMORPG on the planet to date (IMHO) but most of the frustrations we experience would be taken care of in a market where several good products competed for limited dollars. Unfortunately, we're still a long way from that today.

It's a capitalist postulate. First to market always has inertial advantages, but they will eventually erode if they don't respond adequately to changes in the market.

<img src="http://sun.he.net/~justin1/eq/sig3.jpg"/>
Magelo Profile (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=562742)

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Ding!

Just a quick thank you to all our players for helping with our brand new record of over 110,000 simultaneous EverQuest users and a new record high number of subscribers too! Welcome to all of the new Adventurers in Norrath!

To help accommodate our growth in players we will be announcing some server news in the upcoming weeks. :)

Thanks again!

Rod Humble - Executive Producer
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eqlive.station.sony.com/c...p?id=53875 (http://eqlive.station.sony.com/community/dev_view.jsp?id=53875)

There is no "EQ scam" or "evil sony empire" here to make you buy expansions and pay for EQ, if you don't like it, don't buy it, I see what I'm paying for in this expansion, and I accept it and am willing to pay for it.

Yep, as they expand their market(PS2), of course their numbers of new players are going to be inflated. Theres more to those numbers than just an all of a sudden jump in new subscribers to PC EQ, its more or less new subscribers to a new version of EQ. Of course they portray it all as the same which is abit misleading imo.

Same thing OSI did with portraying how strong UO was by combining their brand new foreign server revenue with their old U.S. revenue to make it seem like UO in itself was growing so much. When in fact its not really their game thats attracting all the new players, but a mostly the fact that they tapped into a new market. If that makes any sense.

All i know is when i'm done and ready to leave EQ knowing i'm definitely done, i'll be VERY hesitant to purchase any SoE game related to the same designers EQ currently has. Since clearly their priorities and who they cater to conflicts with what i find acceptable as the same paying consumer. I'm sure many people arent too fond of SoE, but are forced to eat everything thrown their way due to the investment and friends in EQ over the last couple years.

I doubt they hit 110,000 for that amount all the bazaars would have to be functioning flawlessly.....and most of those people would have to be playing another box.

I highly doubt that is possible. Personally I have yet to see my vendor stay up for anything close to a day (since Pop popped).

Its quite easy to take server numbers down and make any claim you like. Seeing as how Philip Morris is willing to kill people I dont think Sony minds getting folks addicted nor faking their numbers.

The truth is out there...

Don't forget that not everyone can afford to get this expansion. So playing the old gripe against someone elses grip is lame. Sorta like the people on red servers who "just kill PK'ers".

And for those that want to protest sony just dont buy any of their other lines (tv, mp3 players, etc) and that is about as hard a squeeze as you can put on them short of organizing other people not to buy there products. What fun irony it would be if all the people addicted to EQ actually refused to buy any other Sony product (like me).

I will be laughing when the entire content is gone through in 3 days.

If they even think of keying the zones anyone who hasn't bought the expansion won't due to PoP.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The second generation of MMORPGs is just around the corner and just about every big name company is hoping to be the next EverQuest.[/quote]

My my my.....how we soon forget that EQ is second generation. hehe

Meridian59 = first generation ground breaking MMORP, went live 3 years before EQ

UO/AO/EQ = second generation

DAOC = ugly step child of second generation

SWG/EQ2/Shadowbane = potential third generation, BUT SOE controls two of these and SB looks like it is going to suck. No wonder I stay with regular EQ.

You don't have to quit playing necessarily, but for god's sake why would you pay for this expansion? It's ten times the scam PoP was.

I disagree with the person that said not all content should be available. WRONG. If you paid for something you should get EVERYTHING out of it. When I bought my car I got the whole thing, not just the engine block and axles. When I bought my house I didn't just get a garage and roof.

I'm sorry but at this point I don't feel sorry for anyone that gets burned by SoE's scam expansions. If you want to keep supporting their BS ways then you can also pay out every couple months for the next carrot. I envy the people have that much money to burn though, congrats.

Even if you only count fully graphical MMORPGs, Neverwinter Nights was very popular and making tons of money long before Meridian59.

If you count text-based graphics, there were other games on Compuserve and before that there were paid games on dial-up BBS systems and before that there were MUDs.

Your history is a little spotty at best. You missed entire lines like Asheron's Call 2 (Microsoft) which is already out. Not to mention the Asian games that may penetrate the US market if they market here deliver something more exiting.

There are also additional genra (spelling?) like Sims, WW 2 games, Online Madden football leagues complete with drafts, trades, and world wide playoff's. The market if getting a smaller slice and there will be more competition.

Pissing off everyone at this stage is a fairly sad market plan. Granted word of mouth worked pretty well for EQ so imagine how word of mouth from the addicts along with regular TV spots will work for the nextGen.

Do everyone a favor and don't buy anyone a "gift" of EQ 2 with a three month subscription. I can't imagine a more devesting gift.

Actually Moss, your example is a bit flawed. None of the items within LoY were promised to the players, they are added features. Taking your car example you already have the base model when you bought it. Getting the "gold tin" EQ edition would be like buying the luxury model of the same car (the one with 4 wheel drive, moonroof, powered stuff). LoY is like adding the after market items like spoilers, brush guards, etc. Things you don't need but would like to add on.

As for "EQ Killers," I've heard that line too many times to believe it anymore. UO, which makes SOE look like saints btw, still has thousands of subscribers pouring money into it. Granted, it's not as much as it was when the game peaked, but there's still substantial funds being paid to play that POS game. If EQ1 goes the way of UO, the majority of the player base will simply go somewhere else - and it won't be the eye candy factor that gets the players either. Companies are learning that shoving a half-assed MMORPG isn't the way to go (see Anarchy Online). They've found out that the playerbase is fickle and are more than willing to leave EQ if another game with comparable graphics and a higher fun factor comes out. The game doesn't have to look as good or better than EQ, but what players want is a full, lush world. One that's complete, has an easy starting learning curve, but one that still provides challenges as the player progresses.

It's no longer only about impressing the eyes.

You're comparing to completely different things...
If you PAID for super mario bros. 1 you didn't get a level access option if you DEMANDED everything you paid for right away, if PAID for any game, MOST content wouldn't be available without actually PLAYING the game and getting farther in, you pay for a PRODUCT, for a GAME, not for content.

Moss, this isn't some scam, they're making a product, they're marketting it, if people like what they see they'll get it, if they don't they won't or will and bitch about it constantly, those people are the ones with problems.

It's a scam when they know full well they could have added these 'luxury' features with PoP. If you string people along with a couple new things in every expansion when you could combine them into one expansion then yes indeed it's a scam. Why else would they come out with another one so soon after PoP? Especially when they screwed it up so bad.

While I wouldn't call it a 'Scam', I do wonder why Sony was trying to rush people into ordering the expansion early. We still don't know for certain if the extension will only consist of 5 zones.

I wonder how many people accidentally ordered the extension because of the shady pop-up thing that shows up when you login.

Its not a scam, they're not tricking anyone to do anything that they don't want to, no one is being forced to buy it, IF you want to pay $20 for new features, GO ahead and do it, if you don't like it, then DON'T buy it, no scam at all, Its so simple why can't you understand?

And I'm enjoying POP ATM, some parts are tedious and suck, but IMO its fine.

There was really no point to this post other than violating a few Grove posting rules. *editted.

SoE has released a significant amount of "free" content/features over the years....Hate, Fear, Sky, Paneel, The Warrens, The Hole, Stonebrunt, Jagged Pine, New UI, Periodically Some new spells, new patcher, new quests and I am sure several things I haven't mentioned.

Why on earth should they do everything for free. The idea of an expansion is to have something in there that will appeal to everyone so everyone will want to buy it. That is not a scam, that is just good sense. Diablo II made you buy the expansion for more bank space too, so why don't you head over to those boards and try and stir something up.

What they need to do; FREE of charge of course, is add one lvl 60-70 zone for us high lvl people. And it should be all frog stuff in there, and the end boss of course should be a big fat sticky stinky Frog God! Now, that would own....


Khrono
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Heaven & Earth.