There's a new Deep Throat and he probably drinks tea and says "Pip, pip, cheerio".

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/14/AR2005061400494.html

Someone in the British government keeps leaking pre-war documents that were memos between the Bush Administration and the Blair Administration.

The gist seems to be:

1) Brits realized the US had a lame-ass plan for invading Iraq, in particular no real exit strategy or means of dealing with a protracted insurgency and this was pointed out to Blair.

2) The US appears to have shaped or cherry-picked the intelligence and shaped UN resolutions with the express design of crafting a suitable excuse of going to war.

But of course, we won't impeach Bush for knowingly taking us to war with false reasons and lying to congress and the world...but we'll impeach Clinton for lying about having sex...

Jesus.

It's got to the stage where everyone knows that the US constructed a case for war against Iraq using the terrorist and WMD stories to gather enough support for an allied coalition. There was never an imminent threat that needed a proactive defence. It's just a question of whether anyone cares. Bush, Blair, and Howard were all re-elected so it seems not.

Not all of us voted for Bush, and he didn't win by much. Unfortunately, an awful lot of people seem to like the simple "us good, them bad" message he sends and the more complicated "you can be different without necessarily being bad, and sometimes a dictator makes for a more stable government than trying to usher in some completely culturally foreign mechanism of government" seems to be a bit over the heads of an awful lot of voters.

Honestly, no matter who was elected, as with viet nam, they would have inherited a huge mess. Once we went in there, it wasn't like we could just walk off into the sunset brushing dust from our chaps and telling the locals "there there, I"m just glad I could be of help little lady!" like the old westerns. Which, I think, is what some members of the administration thought would happen.

Yeah, Jinjre. In some regards, I'm glad Kerry didn't win. Otherwise the Iraq mess would have been pinned on the democrats. This way the Republicans get to own it. I just hope we're out of there before the next election. I think ultimately its going to hurt the GOP. The war is becoming very unpopular.

I was watching a show on Discovery channel this weekend called "The Greatest American". It is a call in vote show that originally allowed people to pick the top 100 greatest Americans. Then they took the top 25 from that group and next weekend they will narrow it down to the top 5. Currently George Bush is running ahead of presidents like George Washington and Abraham Lincoln in phone voting in Florida, Texas and, California. George Bush will make it into the top 5. I voted for Bush. I think he has done some great things. I think he is a great american but, I don't think he is a greater american then George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln. There is probably a dozen more people I could think of that are Greater then George Bush but, he must be quite popular if he is getting so many votes. Either that or Carl Rove has speed dial.

I can't quite believe he made the top 100, much less the top 5.

What great things do you think George Bush has done? Admitedly I'm biased, but I can't think of anything.

I think ultimately its going to hurt the GOP. The war is becoming very unpopular.

It's becoming increasingly unpopular within the GOP as well:

GOP lawmakers urge new Iraq tack
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8197439/

Its funny how now that the election is over, we're actually seeing some of the GOP separate themselves from GWB's hip. Why can't they act as individuals during an election year?

he must be quite popular if he is getting so many votes. Either that or Carl Rove has speed dial.
It would be much more fair to say that he is quite popular amongst people who have the time and inclination to participate in call-in vote polls. Further, it's likely that someone is circulating the information about the poll amongst Bush supporters and that accounts for his apparent popularity.

Its funny how now that the election is over, we're actually seeing some of the GOP separate themselves from GWB's hip. Why can't they act as individuals during an election year?
Yeah, I wish everyone would act as an individual during elections.

Whatever happens in the next election, I hope the neocons take enough heat for Iraq that they get seriously marginalized within the GOP.

"The neoconservatives are not really conservatives at all. They are impostors and opportunists." -- Pat Buchanan

Greatness is measured in many ways. Greatness doesn't always have to be good. Hitler was very evil but, who couldn't say that he ranks as one of the "great germans". Same could be said for Stalin. You don't have to agree with greatness either. For instance I'm not a fan of "The Deal" but, I think it was great. Same with Marxism.

I think George Bush is great because of his reaction to 9/11. The liberation of Afghanistan from the Taliban. The liberation of Iraq. Even though it may be unpopular. I think without 9/11 George Bush would have be a pretty mediocre president. Probably would not have been a Great President if it were not for being at the right moment in time. However I don't know if he is top 5 material. I don't think anyone could know that for another 50 years.

I'm sorry, but how can Bush even factor in the top five americans, or even close?

Washington, Jefferson, Franklin, Lincoln, Adams (the Elder), Monroe, Revere, FDR, Armstrong (the astronaut), Reagan, the big brains of the Manhatten Project, Nimitz, MacArthur, Eisenhower, Bradley...these were great men.

GWB isn't worthy to polish their boots and its demeaning to them to even make that comparison.

It will be a truly sad sad day if Americans choose anyone other than Washington, Jefferson, or Franklin as the Greatest American.

Drop the "us vs. them".

If it turns out that Bush had plans to invade Iraq (and not just having contingency plans in case the event happened) then nail him to the wall.

Until then, this is just more fodder for hating, which is really quite old.

Bush is not even near the top 5 Americans. I can't say any modern politician is. Absolutely none of them has impressed me with the fact they are there for the good of the country rather than the good of themselves.

There, I just voted for Thomas Jefferson, since Benjamin Franklin wasn't there. Benny blows all those clowns out of the water.

The acusation is a little more serious than that, it is that the Bush Admin fixed the intelligence around his desire to go to war with Iraq. The "Downing Street Memos" are just now starting to get a little tiny bit of media attention in the Main stream media even though they've out for quite awhile in the UK.

Ben Franklin is there. Pluss you can vote upto 3 times per voting method so go cast a few more votes for Thomas Jefferson or, spread it out amoungst your favorite great americans. Also Elenore Rosevelt is there. One of the 2 women that made it into the top 25.

Yeah! Just saw him. My votes went to Bill Clinton, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin.

Wow... there sure are a lot of presidents on your lists. Very one-sided. It must be something peculiar to American culture -- devotion/idolation of authority maybe (cynical comment I know). I would have thought that the list would be more balanced with other professions and achievements.

Thicket, I think it's more a commentary on the sad state of the average American's understanding of our own history. There are a lot of names the average american couldn't tell you anything about. But at some point, most of us have heard of most of the presidents somehow.

Pretty much any poll on "the best xxx in the last 100 years" done in the US will show winners from the past 5-10 years, because we have a very limited cultural/historical memory.

Ask a typical American who Seward was or what his folly was, and most of them won't know. Same thing with Nathan Hale. If it wasn't turned into a simple song with a catchy tune, most americans don't know. And if it was turned into a song, the lyrics are probably historically incorrect.

I don't know I think the list was pretty good. The top 100 covered a wide range of people. Sports figures, scientists and, politicians. It's an interesting view into what our country values as great. I think it's more of a commentary on the immediacy of current memory over historical memory and, the effects of popular culture.

The one that got me was that Thomas Edison beat out Nikola Tesla.

Edison was "american" tesla was an import lol.

That and Edison is still plastered over half of the electric companies in the nation.

It's a pretty good list. I wonder how many people thought Bill Gates should be in the top 3 but couldn't bear to vote for him?

Yeah! Just saw him. My votes went to Bill Clinton, Thomas Jefferson, Ben Franklin.

Tell me Bill Clinton was a joke and you didn't actually vote for him? =P

I voted for the original GW, Jefferson, and Franklin.

Nikolah Tesla was originally Serbian. He imagrated to America much like Einstein who is also on the list. I don't know if Tesla ever became an American citizen but, he was on the list at 97 so I assume he did. Tesla was a way more important inventor and scientist then Edison. Edison just had better PR.

Nikolah Tesla was originally Serbian. He imagrated to America much like Einstein who is also on the list. I don't know if Tesla ever became an American citizen but, he was on the list at 97 so I assume he did. Tesla was a way more important inventor and scientist then Edison. Edison just had better PR.

Its hard to say who's discoveries and inventions were more important. I don't know that I agree he was a more important inventor and scientist than Edison.

One brought light and electricity to American houses. The other found the means to make it cheaper.