View Full Forums : Europe can be a little strange at times...


Panamah
10-05-2005, 04:59 PM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4309012.stm
Dane fights for state-funded sex
Prostitutes in Amsterdam, where brothels are legal
Mr Hansen called for Danish sex laws to be more like Holland's
A disabled Danish man is fighting for the state to pay for him to have a prostitute visit him at home.

I think how rabidly anti-social program people are here in the states.... sometimes I think a little time in other countries might broaden one's perspectives a bit.

Anka
10-05-2005, 05:14 PM
Ever since we've had the European Court of Human Rights, people have been getting perculiar views of what human rights are. Strangely enough, they seem to decide that they a "human right" to do whatever they feel like and the government should allow them/pay them to do it. Usually a judge tells them otherwise.

Aidon
10-05-2005, 05:18 PM
I would agree with an International Law stipulating it was every Man's Sovereign Right to get Laid.

Nimchip
10-05-2005, 05:33 PM
What's so weird about a man trying to get some legal poonani? :P

Panamah
10-05-2005, 05:51 PM
Its just I get whiplash.... we get so much of the Individual Responsibility rhethoric here and then you go read a European rag and find people are asking for the government to supply their orgasms.

jtoast
10-05-2005, 08:40 PM
I don't see how thats different than asking the government to pay for prescription drugs like Viagra *shrug*

Panamah
10-05-2005, 10:00 PM
Well, the Viagra taker might actually be using his medication to ummm... lets see if I can put this as nicely as Jinjre did, enjoy the comforts of his marriage bed. Whereas in the Danes case, its clearly not that. If a soldier were injured and Viagra helped him would you be against the government supply him Viagra to restore some normalcy to his life?

Anka
10-05-2005, 10:22 PM
Would you be against a law that forced the government to supply Viagra to an injured soldier as a human right?

Kalest MoonGlade
10-05-2005, 10:49 PM
Would you be against a law that forced the government to supply Viagra to an injured soldier as a human right?


As long as that soldier isn't a registered Sex offender :-p

Tudamorf
10-05-2005, 10:54 PM
I don't see how thats different than asking the government to pay for prescription drugs like Viagra *shrug*Viagra treats a dysfunction.

Anka
10-06-2005, 07:54 AM
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4315348.stm

It never takes long for another human rights story to come up. Criminals have human rights too. Perhaps they can ask for prostitutes to be sent round to the jails next?

Arienne
10-06-2005, 08:46 AM
In the US, convicted felons lose their voting rights for life. As it should be... :)

Tinsi
10-06-2005, 09:56 AM
In the US, convicted felons lose their voting rights for life. As it should be... :)

Government for most of the people by most of the people, huh? ;)

Panamah
10-06-2005, 10:28 AM
We've also got the highest number of incarcerated per capita of any country in the world.

Erianaiel
10-06-2005, 02:29 PM
We've also got the highest number of incarcerated per capita of any country in the world.

*In a slightly hysterical voice*

It is a conspiracy I say! A conspiracy!

The government is trying to maintain its power by taking away the voting rights of those who would opposed to them!

.....

Oooh. Nice white jacket! Is that for me?


Eri

Erianaiel
10-06-2005, 02:31 PM
I would agree with an International Law stipulating it was every Man's Sovereign Right to get Laid.

*wryly* of course you would be out of luck since your president would then state that international law does not apply to the USA anyway.


Eri

Erianaiel
10-06-2005, 02:46 PM
Prostitutes in Amsterdam, where brothels are legal
Mr Hansen called for Danish sex laws to be more like Holland's


I would like to point out that prostitution is not illegal in the Netherlands because most Dutch feel that as long as all involved are doing so voluntarily and are breaking no other law (e.g. sex with a minor) there is no reason to prosecute what is essentially an economic transaction. They also felt it was not the state's role to protect anybody's marriage.
The reason the law regarding brothels was changed had little to do with this though, and everything with an attempt to more effectively prevent trafficing in women for the sex trade. By legalising the business permits would be needed, which means inspections for safety and working conditions as well as access to the women by law enforcement agencies. Operating, or visiting, a brother without permit is still illegal and punishable.
Lately the legislation has come under quite a bit of fire because it failed to do the last. Or rather, local government and police are failing to ensure the 'voluntarily' part of the whole business, which kind of defeats the purpose of the change in legislation.


Eri (who wonders what prompted her to reply to this)

Panamah
10-06-2005, 02:54 PM
So you have to have a permit to visit a sex worker in Holland? What are the requirements? That you pay a tax and get a health check?

Its interesting how little has changed in America. I'm reading a book called "I, Fatty" which is a story about Roscoe "Fatty" Arbuckle. A comedian and actor from the the 1900's. Anyway, he gets caught in a compromising situation at a time when everyone was decrying Hollywood as a cesspit of immorality... blah, blah, blah. His career is ruined by newspapers making stuff up about him (guess no one sued for slander back then). So he goes to Europe where they absolutely love him and the Europeans just shrug off what happened as "American Prudery".

So, apparently nothing much has changed in the last 100 or so years. :D

Anka
10-06-2005, 03:48 PM
I think the brothel owners need the permits, not the customers. They do need to pay taxes and certainly need to have the health checks.

Erianaiel
10-06-2005, 04:05 PM
So you have to have a permit to visit a sex worker in Holland? What are the requirements? That you pay a tax and get a health check?

*blushes* Oh no. It is just that since it is considered (almost) just like any other business, you have to have permit to run a club or house, and make sure all the legal paperwork is in order.


Eri

Erianaiel
10-06-2005, 04:06 PM
I think the brothel owners need the permits, not the customers. They do need to pay taxes and certainly need to have the health checks.

Bother. I wish I had read your reply first Anka, that would have saved me from saying the same, if a bit more wordy


Eri.

Panamah
10-06-2005, 05:03 PM
Heh! Ok, I thought maybe it was like a fishing license. :p

Aidon
10-07-2005, 04:40 PM
In the US, convicted felons lose their voting rights for life. As it should be... :)

I can think of but one crime for which a persons right to vote should be revoked longer than his prison term, and that's Treason.

Arienne
10-07-2005, 04:54 PM
I can think of but one crime for which a persons right to vote should be revoked longer than his prison term, and that's Treason.I agree with treason, but what of murder? Incest? Child ****ography or molestation? I know and fully understand that we have too many people in prisons for breaking laws that should never have been passed in the first place, but ignoring that for a moment, why should a person be given the priviledge to vote when he or she isn't considerate enough of that society to refrain from committing heinous crimes against it? Keep in mind that FELONIES are the crimes that take away voting priviledges.

Klath
10-07-2005, 05:09 PM
I know and fully understand that we have too many people in prisons for breaking laws that should never have been passed in the first place, but ignoring that for a moment
I don't think that should be ignored. When you take away the voting rights of the people breaking those laws you're taking away one of their only ways to change them.

Aidon
10-08-2005, 01:34 AM
I agree with treason, but what of murder? Incest? Child ****ography or molestation? I know and fully understand that we have too many people in prisons for breaking laws that should never have been passed in the first place, but ignoring that for a moment, why should a person be given the priviledge to vote when he or she isn't considerate enough of that society to refrain from committing heinous crimes against it? Keep in mind that FELONIES are the crimes that take away voting priviledges.

If you get out of prison for Murder, then you should be able to vote. Incest, in and of itself, shouldn't even be illegal. Child ****ography surely shouldn't remove your ability to vote, since its very illegality still poses question to some people in the face of the 1st amendment (having possession of it, that is, not producing it). Molestation...happens to be the evil crime of popularity atm and the current best way for small minded people to remove our civil liberties. Never the less, once you are out of prison for it, you should be permitted to vote.

Very little should disenfranchise a citizen of his most fundamental of rights.

Oh and it doesn't take much to commit a felony nowdays.

Arienne
10-08-2005, 09:37 AM
Very little should disenfranchise a citizen of his most fundamental of rights.I agree with that statement, but disagree with what you consider a reason to remove voting rights. If it was citizenship I would probably agree with your list. If you aren't going to follow the basic rules of civility in a society when you HAD a say, you don't deserve a say after you have shown total disregard for those rules. Oh and it doesn't take much to commit a felony nowdays.True, but perhaps that is the fault of the evolved legislation and not the fault of the ideology behind the removal of voting rights. Our Founding Fathers believed that voting was one of the greatest rights this country bestowed upon individuals. Removal of voting rights SHOULD be a deterrent. Voting rights should NEVER be considered "no big deal". Oh, and we have too many laws, period.

Tinsi
10-08-2005, 01:26 PM
If you aren't going to follow the basic rules of civility in a society when you HAD a say, you don't deserve a say after you have shown total disregard for those rules.

By it's intentions though, once released from a prison sentence, the goal is that the guy/girl is rehabilitated (whatever that means). For a moment ignoring the fact that under the current system rehabilitation is an illusion, but merely looking at the principles - why would you revoke the voting rights of a rehabilitated citizen who's finished paying his/her debt to society?

Panamah
10-08-2005, 07:43 PM
I think we don't consider them rehabilitated in this country. We expect they'll be back in within short order.

Tinsi
10-08-2005, 08:23 PM
I think we don't consider them rehabilitated in this country. We expect they'll be back in within short order.

I said what I said about illusions and principles to try to steer the discussion away from this path. :)

Panamah
10-08-2005, 09:01 PM
Accepting turkey into the EU comes with a whole host of problems. Like, what happens when the turks are free to immigrate to countries where they can actually get jobs and so displace European workers?

Anka
10-08-2005, 10:01 PM
We'll just have to handle that, just like we have to handle Poles, Latvians, and plenty of other willing workers right now. European integration really does have a lot of potential problems, it is very ambitious, and we will take as many steps backwards as we do forwards as we go.

Aidon
10-09-2005, 12:13 AM
wrong European thread Pan =P

Panamah
10-09-2005, 10:24 AM
Whooops!

Aidon
10-09-2005, 10:28 AM
Now, back to why State Sponsored Hoors are a Good Thing tm!

Panamah
10-09-2005, 10:29 AM
I hear the Turkish ones rock.

Anka
10-09-2005, 02:07 PM
Well we're getting a few Latvian and Polish ones coming over and working in our country now too. ;).