I did a feedback on this idea a year ago and saw nothing -- not really surprised. But with all the balancing still going on, thought I would bring it up publically. Below is a summary of some of the core abililties of the enchanter and analogous abilities in the druid and necro.


Chanter (All Mobs)
Slow (70%), Tash (-41MR), Haste (70%), Mez, Charm/Direcharm

Necro (Undead)
Slow (70%), Haste (55%), Mez, Charm/Direcharm

Druid (Animal)
Tash (-20MR), Haste (70%), Charm/Direcharm


Observations
Chanters<UL><LI></UL>
Necros<UL><LI>Necro mez is not limited to Undead and will affect any targets like Chanter<LI>Necros do not have Tash (unresistable MR debuff) but they do have the Scent line (resistable PR/DR/FR debuff)</UL>
Druids<UL><LI>Savage Spirit only costs 100m (Augment Death is 200m for 55%, Wonderous Rapiditiy 325m) to provide 70% haste<LI>Druids have various FR debuffs, some of which stack</UL>

Now, I'm wondering if we aren't due for an animal-only slow or mez?

Please throw me some feedback and I'll try to get this updated with observations and facts. I've played an enchanter to 52 but my necro is only 14... so I'm needing more insight.

An animal only slow would just rock, especially a 70% slow. The only problem I see with this is where is a zone that is completely full of animals at level 60 to hunt? Maidens Eye is okay, if you can find one that isn't charmed...

-Bartleby Windtalker

PoP has a lot more animals, yes we are due for an animal slow.

It would seem VERY fair for us to have an Animal only slow !

Thumbs up !

I only have one really big problem with this. Druids are suppose to protect animals not kill them! I think they need to nerf all our animal killing spells. They also need to stop this horrible Druid tailoring fetish. Fur is murder! It's one of my biggest peeves to see other followers of Tunare killing her precious children for fun and profit. I mean this is supposed to be a “Role-Playing Game”. Before someone suggests it no I’m not a tree hugger in RL. I just play one on TV. That being said I do whole heartedly support an Animal Mezz line. It’s long over due. As the many aggressive animals increase. It would be nice to have something to clear their minds. To stop them from eating friendly nature lovers like me. I appose the inclusion of an animal slow as it is an offensive spell. Also the Animal Fear spells need to go as they are another tool used by the Druid Defilers. Sony really needs to look at the Druid class to ensure that the spells really fit the Druid Theme. It’s ok for Druids to cull out diseased and corrupted animals but, this wholesale slaughter of Tunare’s chosen must stop!

Thats OK I'm a follower of Karana. And I can't remember the last time I hurt the weather, so I'm in good standing with my God.

Here's the description of Druid off the EQ website:

Druid
Nature is a druid's ally. Druids are in tune with nature; thus, their magics are nature based, drawing from the spiritual forces of both plants and animals. Whether calling forth roots to entangle an enemy, or using nature's life-giving essence to heal themselves or others, druids are the masters and servants of Nature. The dedication necessary to become a druid is great; druids can only be found among the half elf, halfling, human and wood elf races.
Druids have a love for all animals, but that does not mean all animals love druids. Although a druid will do what he or she can to avoid harming one of nature's beasts, many animals see a druid as just another source of food. This is no reflection of the piety of the druid, mind you, but rather of the simple minds of beasts. Druids, like shamans, have the ability to aid others in many ways, making both desirable members in hunting parties.


So don't give me the Karana excuse. If you intentionally attack animals for your own profit you aren't following this description of Druids. It's up to you how you want to play your character but, don’t except me to respect you if you violate the spirit of the above description. It's hypocritical of Sony to design a class with abilities that are it's anti-thesis. Maybe it’s too late for them to change this poor design but, I don’t think they should insult those of us who still want to role-play by giving us more spells we won’t use. I also would like to highlight the point above about natures life-giving essence. This is excellent grounds to give use some form of Rez.

Yes this debate has been raging on since the game was released. Sure we love nature but she seems to be so cruel to us at times, It feels good to get some back. Also the pre-Kunark days druids were saying if an animals is amiable to us and we charm it to do a favour for us, should it really be angry at us afterwards, hence came Tunare's Request.

I'm sure every time your friends ask you to do a favour for you they don't start clawing you to death afterwards do they?

Well the point is Nature is a very cruel but wonderful thing, and I guess I follow those guidelines, I'm cruel but wonderful :)

PLease dont quote Verant class descriptions. They dont have a clue on what a druid is in Norrath.

Karana is neutral.
So RP wise you can kill animals. Perhaps not make them extinct, but yes 100 bears roaming around killing non-Druids could prompt a Druid to kill 50 or 60 of them.

Nobody truley cares about RP unless they are on FV anyway. Well at least a charecter on FV.

Since this debate has ranged on for years it’s not my intent to hijack this thread from it’s original intent. However I hope we can both agree that the Developers should consider both play styles valid and create content for both of them to enjoy. To this I feel that an animal slow spell isn’t appropriate but, an animal Mez definitely is. The Animal Mez would be useful to both the Despoiler and Preserver druids. One might even suggest that having an outdoor only Mez wich effects everything is due. Since Enchanters get SoW and Harmony got nerfed.

Having amiable animals non-agro after charm is a good idea for ALL animal charm spells. Not just Tunare’s Request which is rumored to be broken and causes agro now. It actually took me a long time to warm up to using the Animal Charm line because of the agro problems. For now when my charm ends I either re-charm or port away to clean agro. Here again an Animal Mez would be useful as you could cast it to make the animal forget you tried to make it a pin cushion.

Now for a Old/New idea to return. More Animal forms. It used to be that this wasn’t possible because there wasn’t many global animal graphics. With Luclin this changed and now there are quite a few forms that should be available to Druids. Werewolf,Tiger, Scaled Wolf, and Bear are all global graphics that they could add as new Druid forms. It wouldn’t matter to me much what the characteristics of the forms were. Just the ability to shift into more shapes would be nice.

Animal slow would be great, doubt we'll get anything like that though.

Personally, I like to RP my druid. But if an animal attacks me first, it must die. It's supposed to love me.

Love me, or die! :)

That being said, I would like to see more animal spells. I'm a druid after all. If I see an animal attacking a friend, I should be able to persuade the animal to stop. So there's a reason for the Mez.

I don't know about the slow though, because we really shouldn't be killing them. Though it would be a nice feature to have, for auto-aggro animals.

I'd LOVE to see a non-aggro charm, but I'll settle for the mez. I don't think animals should attack us for charming them. We're politely asking them if they'd help us in a time of need, and I think as druids, that's perfectly acceptable. Animals should want to help us, if asked.

Maybe we could get that as an AA skill? Reduce aggro on charms by training our charm skills. It could also upgrade the charm level cap by 1 level per AA level?

Make it sorta like this:

5pts AA = Lvl 1 Animal charm mastery (Charm up to 54, and reduce chance of aggro by 25%)

10pts AA = Lvl 2 Animal charm mastery (Charm up to 55, and reduce aggro by 50%)

15pts AA = Lvl 3 Animal charm mastery (Charm up to 56, and reduce aggro by 75% or even 100%)

Just an idea :) I know we'll never see it, but I can dream.

Actually since our purpose is to server nature and protect nature it is a druids duty to keep some of the animal populations from growing too large. Nature is a balance and if all we do is protect animals from ever being killed then we have failed in our duty. We should strive to protect animals from extinction but not from death.

You role play your druid your way and i will do so mine. An animal slow would be perfectly fitting. What the hell is wrong with Druids actually having some zones where animal tags are useful?

~Nallowin

Hmm...I guess I have been thinking wrong then all these years.

I have always looked at damage shields as a sort of poor man's alternative to slow. Slow is better IMO, but the DS in some ways makes up it. I think it woul dbe difficult to justify giving one class both of these abilities, even if the slow was restricted to animals only. Sorry, I guess I am in the minority here.

Its great to get abilities which make the game easier, but I think we have a fairly complete range of abilities as it is. I'd love to see summon companion though. That one definitely makes sense to me.

OMIGOD!!! Don't forget PLANTS!! We can charm plants too!!!

Don't you find "invis to animals" one of your most useful spells EVER??

Hail a Druid Nazi!


Heh, sorry about that, I couldn't help it.

Let me make a quick assertion. I'm a biologist, and it simply is not true that conservationalist of any kind deplore killing animals. For example, rabbits in australia. These critters, despite their cute little fuzzy tails, are wrecking havoc on the ecosystem there. Cats in the new Guinea Island, cats and rats are probably the 2 worse invasive species out there... (next to man I guess). Certain species of japans water plants are destroying lake Austin, Deer are growing in outrageous numbers ect ect ect. All these species are activily hunted down and destroyed in order to re-established an equilibrium.

I'm sorry, but the "Lovers of nature would never hurt an animal" is just doesn't hold water, peroid ;)

Also, quoting the verants "intention" for druids is just silly. If you're going to be totally anal about this, you'd have to take away a lot of our abilities.

I think an animal slow would be great ;)


Maple

Hail! Biological Fascist! ( Note: I did not say Nazi because some people maybe offended buy it :P )

Thanks for bringing a real word argument into this fantasy setting. Lets just say that I don’t respect the fact that you’re a biologist anymore than I respect what most conservationalist have to say. I’ll just say that scientist and conservationalists will say what ever will get them the next fat grant or contract. I also have mention before that although I may personal disagree with others (I call them “Defilers”) interpretation of the Druid ethos. I do not seek to force them to change their wrong headed play style to suite my opinion. How ever I choose a play style that I like to call “Preserver”. I think that any content added should respect both play styles. As an Animal Slow would be mostly useless to a “Preserver” I would prefer to support an Animal Mez instead. A Mez would be useful for both play styles. Although I shutter to think what you “Defilers” will use it for. I also think there is room for some fun spells that will give Druids more Animal Shapes along the lines of our Wolf Form line. Also the Tree Form line could be use some upgraded mana regen. If not only for its limited use (I’m still trying to figure why I cann’t tree form in Jaggedpines. Anyone?) . However Tree Form is a Plant spell so doesn’t qualify to fit in this thread. I guess this isn’t really the thread to argue about “role-play” style. Other than to establish a basis for why I would prefer certain spells over others that will be added or currently have. To recap I think most “Preservers” would like to see less Animal Slow and Fear Spells. More Animal Mez and Non agro charm spells. And some nutty peanut butter to lay out over bread and have a snack ;) .

Tunare’s Blessings,
52 Wander Fenmarel Mestarine
Stormhammer

“Underneath the bridge, top has sprung a leak, and the animals are trapped, Have all become my pets, and we’re living off of grass, and the drippings from the ceiling, It’s OK to eat fish, because they don’t have any feelings” Kurt Cobain

If I remember that feature of certain species devasting the eco system of a certain area right as it was shown in biology/geology in school, it is species the human imported into that area, that are devasting it, that is surely not the case, I mean, if I'd import Drachnits from DL to GFay, Wood Elfs would get into serious trouble as they aren't safe on their trees anymore on a sudden but face mobs that people level 40 to 50 defeat instead of the few lower than level 10 orcs.

That would be comparable for that situation, but importing mobs here and there isn't happening in EQ (would maybe if there were no zonelines and one could lead a charmed being somewhere and set it free)

<img src="http://www.elvenkingdomguild.org/memberpics/shayariel_logo.jpg"/>
My Magelo Profile (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=139430) | Level: 61 | Guild: Adamantine Kinship (http://www.adamantine.org)

I know your trying to help but, I have one problem with what you said. Drachnids are not animals. They are altered Tier'dal servants of Mayong Mistmore. As a matter of fact spiders are not consider animals in EQ. I have done extensive research on many zones before I fight in them. I catalog all the wildlife to determine how and if I will fight there. I do agree that there is occasions where a "Preserver" is justified in killing animals. These animals are tagged Tainted, Corupted, and Diseased. It would be important for the "Preserver" to make sure the maladies do not spread to the general population. However again this debate is better served for another thread.

<== Storm Warden of FV... I <3 my a small tree frog's!

This thread started out implying that Chanters have it better than druids since they can slow and mez everything. Even implyies that chanters doit better than Necros.
Lets not forget the ultimate weapon that druids get, the reason a druid can quad kite raptors while a chanter is lucky to kill one. ENSNARE. Combined with SoW and DoTs.
I have an almolst 51 druid, and a 50 chanter, and a 40 Necro. Even Necro needs to recast their snares, but a druid's lasts forever it seems.
Before a druid gets mezzes and slows of ant kind the chanter should get a snare.
Even wizards have snare. Mages can effectively snare too, using a earth pet.
Class balance... heck its the Druids that are too pwerful, not the chanters.

Necros have a fun little tool called Fear kite with you pet too.

Their snare does damage as well, this is a reason it lasts a shorter duration.

But let us not forget the Run speed immune mobs that invalidate our ULTIMATE WEAPON as you claim it to be.

And enchanters can slow/mez better then Necros.

~Nall