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Deneldar
11-04-2005, 01:12 PM
Am I missing something in EQ these days? This has all been said before btw but I want my turn. :)

I was away a long time (best part of 5 expansions in fact) so having been at the higher end when I left I'm now down at the casual group level. Now it's quite possible I'm missing something obvious and I hope I am to be honest.

People my level are grouping at MPG and WoS. On the odd occasions I've been there I came across mobs that do insane damage to tanks with 12000+ HPs (often many more) and to deal with that I have 2 heals spells, the same two I had over 2 years ago! Neither of which make a sizeable dent in the tanks HP bar and both of which have a profound effect on my mana bar. I need chanter and BL buffs just to have a hope of keeping up.

There's a thread here about "people who think druids can't heal". I've read it, and it makes perfect sense, but you only have to click on the magelo links to see why. I had a little look around the smaller, family type guild sites today and checked out their rosters to see where I stand. At 67 with 3400HP and 5200 mana I'm still on a par with most of their druids and still better than many!

9000HP and 10000 mana doesnt really put you in a place where you can comment on day to day group content, it's a tiny percentage that have those numbers.

I was more shocked then when I go to Lucy, expecting to see my 6500hp "renewal" upgrade and 3800hp fast casting "infusion" only to find they don't seem to be there! Surely this is an oversight on Lucy's part and the spells are actually in the game? They must be, right?

Lhittle
11-04-2005, 01:46 PM
You will not find a renewal type spell. The only spells they have given to us in the healing arena lately are fast heals. At 68 you can get Chlorotrope which is a 2810hp heal that costs 691 Mana to cast. Sylvan Infusion, a 65 level spell from the Gates of Discord Expansion is 2441 for 607 mana and might be the best spell in the game for druids when it comes to fast healing/mana. You can get Sylvan Infusion from doing the sewers missions I believe and grabbing a Taelosian Geomancy Stone Yiktu. You turn that Stone into an NPC in the Abysmal Sea to Reyfin Malakwa may be found on the ship at +225, +290, +100. When you reach 70 and if you can get anguish flagged you might have an opportunity to get an ancient glowing rune which will give you Ancient Chlorobon which heals for 3094 and costs 723 mana. By far the best heal we have now is probably Skin of the Reptile, a 68 spell that you cast on the tank and it heals for 400 without AAs and 600 if you have all the healing AAs. Cast on a paladin or sk, these spells can crit for 1200hp heals multiple times from multiple hits. The spell can last up to 1 minute and 30 seconds or a certain amount of hits, and will heal without you having to cast another heal. This spell can heal up to 12000hps or more depending on what you are fighting.

Basically, you can forget about CH type spells, focus on healing AAs and healing focuses and you will see crits up to 8000hps with the spells I have mentioned depending on your healing focus.

Nimchip
11-04-2005, 01:50 PM
And here i thought people had forgotten about incomplete heals :(

Aelfin
11-04-2005, 02:11 PM
Deneldar, here is something you probably don't want to hear:
Maybe you don't belong in WoS at this point. Just because you can enter a zone does not mean you can play in it successfully.
Perhaps consider going elsewhere until you have the proper AA/Focus.
PoP and DoN xp is still good and DoN vendors/crystals may allow you to increase your gear/focus.
If all your friends are in WoS and you really gotta be there, too, accpet that MH is probably not your role. Consider DPS. Your PoP nukes will still damage WoS mobs nicely.
Seriously, you are bitching about not being able to keep up after missing 5 expansions. That is 5 expansions of AA, focus gear, mana gear, etc.

Aelfin
11-04-2005, 02:18 PM
Also, want to throw in:
Perhaps the tank you had had no business being in WoS...
If the tank had 1300AC and 7k hp... well... even a cleric would quickly go OOM.

spanky_p
11-04-2005, 02:35 PM
I agree with Aelfin. You have missed a lot of things. You can do DON's and get mana regen +3 itemss anad some gear that have mana regein that will help you but you will also need some spell haste aa's and items along with your heall's aa's and items. Your mana pool is fine but could always be better. I heal in mpg and i am not 70 yet also don't have the 68 heal but working on it. You maybe a little behind but not as far as others.

Also if you et the chance get the DOD exspansion and do some mm missions cause you get almost if not a whole AA on some. I get 1 aa at 69 on the fairy mission. So your aa's would be easy to get and safer than anywhere else. if you have a good group the fairy mission can be done in 15 min, i only did that once but normally 20 to 22 min. but that new patch hurt cause you can't do the orc and fairy back to back now cause they on the same timer.

Deneldar
11-04-2005, 04:55 PM
Deneldar, here is something you probably don't want to hear:
Maybe you don't belong in WoS at this point. Just because you can enter a zone does not mean you can play in it successfully.


That was kind of my point, of course I don't belong there! Problem is that's where people are. First thing I did when I got back was PoS frogs to finish 65 off and get 66. I was alone in PoS. Went to BoT to help a friend with a named and there was only one wing camped. People have moved on to new content as they always do, ready or not.

The main points of the post were that there's a total misunderstanding here of what represents "normal" for a druid. If you actually have a look at what gear non-raiding druids have, many people here have double the HP and mana and I don't think you realise it. Someone in one of the threads offered a median average of 7k mana from EQrankings. EQrankings is where you go to show off your gear, the people with no gear to show off aren't on there, so that average is going to be way out.

The other point was that in the time I was gone the fully buffed HPs of a tank have doubled, the mobs hit 3 times as hard but the heals are essentially exactly the same. I fail to see the logic.

Juniper
11-04-2005, 09:21 PM
I am a 'non raiding' Druid. Most of what I have, except my primary and one earring are obtainable by any Druid who plays casually. While I agree that once in a while the perception of 'average' can be missleading, the addition of new expansions created all kinds of ways to feel like you 'belong' in a zone.

90% of what people consider difficult exists in their minds.

Dayuna
11-04-2005, 11:13 PM
There are many ways to gear up to the point where you can heal WoS. One of which is to save plat and buy some upgrades. Another is to find content that drops what you need and get some friends to help you. Also keep in mind that a druid is really at it's best when it's not locked into 1 single role (i.e. healing) so having a cleric or even another druid along can substansially help you. You may not be able to heal WoS effectively yet, but with a bit of effort you shold be able to not long from now if you put your efforts into getting that gear.

Sildan
11-05-2005, 03:05 AM
9000HP and 10000 mana doesnt really put you in a place where you can comment on day to day group content, it's a tiny percentage that have those numbers.

You might wanna take a gander at the below link before you assume that us raiders are such a miniscule percentage of EQ players.

http://eq.forums.thedruidsgrove.org/showthread.php?t=8177

Please also note, of those raiders there are 719 of them with in excess of 9000 mana(according to eqrankings). Hardly a tiny amount in my opinion.

Golthine Gettinwood
11-06-2005, 02:47 AM
I finally broke 6500k mana, and on my server, there's not a lot of druids that have more (barring the oines in the top guilds). I can heal in MPG, but there is a bit of downtime. I see Deneldar's point, but I don't want to go the "uber vs everyone else" path. I would love a 10k mana pool, but my guild is just starting in the ele planes, and with my work schedule, it'll be awhile before I see any other serious upgrades.
I just made up for the mana with putting aa's into healing, and this helped a lot.I just work with what I have.

dorda
11-07-2005, 07:20 AM
umm btw i think the new DOD 68 spell skin of reptile is a must.
I am a non raider (although with 400 aa now, i play a lot), but with it on i can solo tank wos mobs .. and healing mpg rss becomes quite easy.

Ryaath
11-07-2005, 09:05 PM
Even for those of us that didn't take breaks, and miss expansions; we still had to kite in HoH, or charm frogs in PoS, and level up in BoT groups until we were blue in the face. It takes some effort to get to the point of being able to main heal in WoS. DoN is the key here. You get exp, aa's for progression + spells and other neat stuff, augments, and they are really pretty easy. It's pretty widely known that a druid can heal a creator mission. I hydra a cleric, and have done like 11 creator's in a row to power level her. You get one group and keep going back; it's probably the best choice for your situation. The DoN vendors also have gear, LDoN style that could be upgrades. Or sell the crystals and buy WoS gear. Even complete heal doesn't completely heal anymore, so don't feel too left out :P

Deneldar
11-09-2005, 10:04 AM
Creator does seem to be the key. Quick and easy so it doesn't get eye-bleedingly boring. I still dont get how there isn't an upgrade to the renewal line though. It defies all logic that the tanks can double their hitpoints in 2 years but the healers are stuck with the same size heals. Something in the 5.5 to 6k range would do.

I can't agree with those numbers though Sildan. :)

This place has always attracted the top tier of druids and eqrankings, as I said, is skewed because it's a place to show off. If you have 3000hp and 4500mana, as many do, you won't be there to help show a true average.

Fenier
11-09-2005, 11:28 AM
Few facts:

In today's game enviroment, you can easily obtain FT 15, or even 20 Giving you a base of 15 or 20 before buffs.

At 68 you Gain Steeloak, and you should ideally, at least have Mask of the Stalker/Hunter, if not Forest. This means you are regening somewhere around 27-34 a tick. 35ish a tick if you have Wild.

Youc an use Clairty Potions for anoher 14 a tick, or you can get a c6 for another 20, this brings you upto somewhere around 49 - 55 a tick regen standing.

While Beastlord buffs are less common, you can add another 10 mana regen to that number with Spiritual Ascendance.

If you really want to go all out, you can camp the Burrower in AC for http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=26606 which will increase your mana regen by another 2. You will need a tank and a Shaman to slow it. The Fight is underwater.

Or - If yrou more the farming, tradeskill type you can do http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=55298 It will require alot of money however, to purchaes the books unless you camp them.

Finally, should you get lucky enough to enter a Effiency trial, you can win a http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=70611

The above items stack with all other mana regen buffs (both not with each other), and will raise your mana regen another 2-8 points.

You can *vastly* increase your mana count with Master's/Grandmaster Gear with Augs, or Tier 1 Omens stuff or even the high end DoN armor. This is true ESP if your going to actually aug said armor with mana augs.

The DoDH progression missions currently reward items whcih will be upgraded, but on average even the easiest missions result in at current 110ish hp/mana + Loot.

If you feel very determined you can even do the 5 mission arcs and get a http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=85573 You however will need a cleric to heal their missions without upgrading your armor fairly drastically.

You have no Magelo posted, so I can only guess at your aa choices, however Adept and Gift maxed is very important as you try harder and harder content. Convergance of Spirits is nothign to laugh at either, and Gift of Mana is handed for extended duration patch healing. Having alternation is spec helps, and SCM is pretty much required as is.

You should try to aquire both Skin of the Reptile and Sylvan Infusion. The former is quested, the later is both dropped and or researched.

I am not sure as to your guild situation, but the 1.5 is not that hard at all, and most guilds should be able to handle it with 3-4 groups.

As far as foucses, Spell Haste is very important, as is a Improved Healing focus. If you have the belt from Nobles' Causeway, you have the healing focus already, so I would grab the spell haste aug from DoN and bring your 3.75 second heals down to around 2.5 or so.

-Fenier

Fenier
11-09-2005, 11:33 AM
It defies all logic that the tanks can double their hitpoints in 2 years but the healers are stuck with the same size heals. Something in the 5.5 to 6k range would do.

Karana's Renewal, Max Adept Heals 5990 HP.

If you have 3000hp and 4500mana, as many do, you won't be there to help show a true average.

You are not limited to that level of play. Even casual people can easily hit 7-8k mana today. Its just that it takes alot of work or alot of plat.

-Fenier

Dari
11-09-2005, 09:02 PM
Karana's Renewal at 5990 doesn't even heal half my SK friend's hp.
So yeah, we're way behind the times when it comes to healing. Just look at the things Fen posted-yes you can get all those AAs and all the gear to help-but even IF YOU DO you still don't come close to a cleric's healing, much less the token 80% SoE claims as the goal for us.
Me, I just deal with the hand I've been given and play to the best of my ability. But I do wish we'd get a better toolkit.

Tenielle
11-09-2005, 10:43 PM
CHes are being phased out. we'll never see an upgrade to karana's. I haven't loaded it in forever anyway.

Netura
11-10-2005, 01:22 AM
I main healed a nest mission today, chain pulling and chain killing...I found it much more efficient to use KR.

Dayuna
11-10-2005, 01:35 AM
KR is more mana efficient until you get anguish bp or some other mana pres of some sort, can't remember what it was when I figured it out and it's late... will get back to ya on that tomorrow maybe.

Rolaque
11-10-2005, 10:52 AM
We use karana's on certain targets in guild raids. For some targets, like Vangl, 3 or 4 druids do a CH chain on the MT while group clerics do cures and group heals. For us it makes sense to it that way because we usually have 8-10 clerics in raid and 4-5 druids, which is just enough clerics to keep groups healed and cured.

However, healing in exp groups depends not only on the tanks HP/AC, the amount of dps the rest of the group puts out makes a big difference. If you have to heal for a 25 sec fight, vs heal for a 45 sec fight, then your mana will last much longer.

Fenier
11-10-2005, 11:06 AM
Karana's Renewal at 5990 doesn't even heal half my SK friend's hp.

In all fairness, your SK friend, if it is the one I am thinking about, is not exactly a typical tank for a WoS Group =p

Karana's Rewnal is fine for say, WoS, maybe even MPG with a decent geared tank, the issue you will run into however, in places such as RS, is the mob can deal over 6k damage in 10 seconds. This makes the heal unviable in those areas unless the tank is overgeared for the content.

yes you can get all those AAs and all the gear to help-but even IF YOU DO you still don't come close to a cleric's healing,

In terms of raw heal power? No, you don't. But you do become a effective healer for most content as long as you know what your doing.

If you don't know what your doing, and unwilling or unable to learn, then all the gear and AA in the game won't be able to make you a good healer.

-Fenier

Lowerth
11-10-2005, 11:09 AM
If you don't know what your doing, and unwilling or unable to learn, then all the gear and AA in the game won't be able to make you a good healer.
-Fenier

Or a good player.

Dayuna
11-10-2005, 11:23 AM
In terms of raw heal power? No, you don't. But you do become a effective healer for most content as long as you know what your doing.

If you don't know what your doing, and unwilling or unable to learn, then all the gear and AA in the game won't be able to make you a good healer.

-Fenier

Well said!

mordien
11-15-2005, 10:08 AM
KR is more mana efficient until you get anguish bp or some other mana pres of some sort...

/drool Anguish BP

/sigh but I'll go back to twiddling my thumbs waiting.

Dayuna
11-15-2005, 02:36 PM
I just got the anguish bp about a week ago, it is pure <3... 1.9sec Ancient Chlorobon at the reduced mana cost $$