So apparently there's a big hubbub about Barry Bonds using <a href="http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/baseball/mlb/03/06/news.excerpt/index.html">steroids</a> while on his record-breaking homerun run. The article is pretty interesting just due to the supposed volume of steroids the authors are accusing him of using. Lets just say that if the teachers in our Health classes were giving us the straight facts, Mr. Bonds will not be having kids anytime soon and his next prescription drug will be of the "ED" type.

So how many people actually think the MLB will start revoking the records?

I don't see why they would. When it happened it was legal.

I'm pretty sure that when you buy your prescription drugs from some guy who hangs out at a gym, it's never really legal. In case I'm missing something, care to elaborate, Toast?

Many (although not all) of the substances "Abused" were not actually controlled substances until the passage of the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004 (http://alcoholism.about.com/b/a/090178.htm) and baseball had no rules in place regarding their use.

Lets just say that if the teachers in our Health classes were giving us the straight facts, Mr. Bonds will not be having kids anytime soon and his next prescription drug will be of the "ED" type.


I have not seen any proof that the down regulation of endogenous male hormones when on steroid therapy is permanent. Provided that the exogenous dosages were not overdosages(some body builders can run 100 times natural levels, I can't see how that is good).

I don't think the teachers in your Health classes were giving you the straight dope.

I don't see why they would. When it happened it was legal.

jtoast must be a giants fan ;)

f the giants.

Go Dodgers!

Nah, baseball sucks. I really don't give a damn either way..heh.

I doubt any MLB baseball records will be retro-changed.

Heck, East Germany practised systemic, state-supported steroid doping of their athletes. That's why the East Germans won so many Olympic gold medals. Nothing was changed retroactively.

Heck, East Germany practised systemic, state-supported steroid doping of their athletes. That's why the East Germans won so many Olympic gold medals.

Hmm, didn't the Germans just top the winter olympic medal table without any drugs?

Retroactive penalties for drug use are always going to be contraversial. Chemists will create new performance enhancing drugs that will need to be banned after discovery and penalised by the sporting bodies. Athletes will need to be able to take new medication, and shouldn't be penalised for taking medication that was allowed at time of use.

Many (although not all) of the substances "Abused" were not actually controlled substances until the passage of the Anabolic Steroid Control Act of 2004 (http://alcoholism.about.com/b/a/090178.htm) and baseball had no rules in place regarding their use.
From what I understand, and my understanding is definitely hazy, so called "controlled substances" do not cover the entire drug line - ie: it does not cover all prescription or OTC drugs. However, obtaining a prescription based drug without a prescription is still illegal - and as far as I know, anabolic steroids have always required a doctor's medical use prescription. Putting the anabolic steroids on the Controlled Substances list just made possession a federal crime.

As for the MLB, if the allegations turn out to be true, essentially you've got a player who used performance enhancing drugs which were illegal (unless Bonds can produce proof of medical need) in order to break an official record. The current MLB rules only provide for a game suspension if a person is caught abusing steroids, however, again if proven, a "Ben Johnson" should be done to Bonds imo, McGwire too if they prove it.

Hmm, didn't the Germans just top the winter olympic medal table without any drugs?

Aye, Germany was first with 29, followed by the U.S. with 25, Canada with 24 medals, Austria with 23 and Russia with 22.

Look at the East German results.

Winter Olympics
---------------
1976

USSR 27 medals
East Germany 19
United States 10
West Germany 10

1980

East Germany 23
USSR 22
United States 12

1984

USSR 25
East Germany 24
Finland 13

1988

USSR 29
East Germany 25
Switzerland 15

Summer Olympics
-----------------

1976

USSR 125
United States 94
East Germany 90

1980
Stats skewed because of Western boycott of Olympics in Moscow.

1984
Stats skewed because of East Bloc boycott of Olympics in Los Angeles.

1988

USSR 132
East Germany 102
United States 94
----------------------------------------------------

How does a tiny country of 20 million people do so well in the Olympics? Well, sports was part of East German politics. Olympic success was equated with political success. To achieve Olympic success, the East German government systematically administered steroids to their athletes. This is not idle speculation. Government records from the STASI secret police document the use (Germans are anal about keeping good statistical records).

You won't see Olympic records sanitized for East German steroid use.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4341045.stm

and trenbolone, a steroid created to improve the muscle quality of cattle.
Now that's just sick. sticking yourself with cattle horemones...eeeewww.

If you want to see some of the nasty visible effects of steroids, google "Greg Valentino" (Pictures (http://www.greggvalentino.net/index.cfm?pageID=12&picSectionID=4), Interview (http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=211hate)).

MLB will not put a * on any modern day records. What will happen is these people won't be getting into the hall.

However there is something about the Bonds story I want to say. This book claims Bonds started using in 1998/1999 season. Bonds was already a hall of famer before this season in my mind and alot of others. Will Bonds get into the hall? If he doesn't admit to using, he will be in the hall in 2011.

Bonds stats didn't get really out of wack until 2001 though, I want to note.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/baseball/mlb/players/3918/

However there is something about the Bonds story I want to say. This book claims Bonds started using in 1998/1999 season. Bonds was already a hall of famer before this season in my mind and alot of others. Will Bonds get into the hall? If he doesn't admit to using, he will be in the hall in 2011.
That may be true, but I read another opinion over at SI that I personally agree with.


Link: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/tom_verducci/03/08/bonds.qa/1.html

<b>SI.com: Will you cast a vote for Bonds on your Hall of Fame ballot?</b>

Verducci: No. Not in any good conscience could I vote for someone who used performance-enhancing drugs for so many years. We're not going to have to vote on Bonds for at least five or six years, and I'm certainly open to any new information that is presented until then, but with the evidence we have now, there is no way I could vote for him.

For those who argue that Bonds was a Hall of Fame-quality player before he started using drugs, I don't think in baseball you can build up a resume to a lofty point and then do anything you want to the game. Cheating the game is nothing that can be forgiven, whether it happens in your first year of baseball or your last year, like with Rafael Palmeiro. The 411 home runs, which is what Bonds had through 1998, don't give you carte blanche to do anything you want in baseball, including being a drug cheat.

A list of people who cheated, who ARE in the hall of fame. I guess Verducci wouldn't have voted for any of these players either.

Ty Cobb - I think this is another category made for Ty Cobb. How many extra stolen bases did he get because fielders were afraid of the sharpened spikes? In addition, he also bet on baseball, so he might have thrown games. Ty Cobb is a necessary addition to any "bad" sports list.

Gaylord Perry - He was a surgeon when it came to doctoring baseballs. Throughout his career he continued to improve on his methods to "cheat." Perry did not have velocity, so he relied on ball movement. The irony is that everyone knew what he was doing but could not catch him.

John McGraw - In an era of dirty baseball, he was the dirtiest player on the dirtiest team. He hid balls in the outfield, spiked opposing players, watered down the base paths, grew the infield grass to deaden bunts.

Whitey Ford - "I didn't begin cheating until late in my career, when I needed something to help me survive. I didn't cheat when I won the twenty-five games in 1961. I don't want anybody to get any ideas and take my Cy Young Award away. And I didn't cheat in 1963 when I won twenty-four games. Well, maybe a little."

Just to name a few. The list does go on.

Don't confuse the "illegality" of breaking a statute or law vs. the "illegality" of breaking a rule of the game. The two are not the same.

There are drugs that can be obtained and use without breaking any law, but that are not permissible according the rules of a particular sport or game. The Propecia incident that arose during these last Winter Olympics is an example of this.

Conversely, just because a player commits an illegal act (i.e., violates a statute or law) does not mean that they have broken a rule of the game.

I totally agree.

THG the "steroid" most in question wasn't banned by Major League Baseball till 2004. It was however illegal to sell it in the United States.

Look at it another way.
When football players melt their brains into mush by snorting enough cocaine to dust a wedding cake, I could care less. Yes, I agree absolutely that they're setting a bad example since in America we put sports stars up on artificial pedestals and make them role models - and yeah, as the manager of a team, I would slap the player silly with all sorts of suspensions or salary "adjustments" because the drug use probably affects the players game time performance. However, no matter how many "benders" you get into by snorting coke or smoking pot, it's not going to lead you to breaking records.

However, what we're talking about is a drug in which the effects were known prior to it being taken. In other words, Bonds, McGuire, Ben Johnson - they all knew what the steroid would do to them. They all knew that they could not get the results they achieved without the use of an artificial "boost".

So now, there is an artificial "record" in MLB - the top three homerun holders all being very suspect, and all very much past their prime when they achieved their homerun drives.