View Full Forums : Experiences with Moonshadow.


Fenier
03-17-2006, 07:22 AM
So, now that people are actually getting / using the spell. What do they think about it?

Kamion
03-17-2006, 09:09 AM
I like the spell. But the human factors requires to make to the spell work correctly are annoying - how come the person that gets hardest by the AEs always has to be standing out of the heal range? ;p

Dindail
03-17-2006, 09:10 AM
Its too weak, and has proven to not be very useful at all in the expansion it was obtained in.

Dayuna
03-17-2006, 09:43 AM
It will be difficult to tell how useful the spell really is in current content for a couple weeks, but I will say moonshadow was perma-memmed in groups on beta (the clerics loved having someone else to group heal after a divine arb ><). The mana cost and recast time are not totally outlandish either, just think about how long it would take to cast Nature's Touch (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=1291&source=Test) on each of 6 people in group and how much mana you would use doing it (2742 mana over roughly 27.3 seconds at best), it's an upgrade that many members of the druid community have been pushing for a long time.

Kamion
03-17-2006, 11:29 AM
Its too weak, and has proven to not be very useful at all in the expansion it was obtained in.

To echo what Dayuna was getting at, this spell isn't designed to keep a group up through AEs alone. It's meant to save time and mana, which it does. And when in combination with other things (ie Divinie arb) it'll be powerful. Moonshadow will make a normal divine arb seem like an epic divine arb, as far as AE's are concerned.

Also keep in mind, this spell crits for about as much ancient heal lands non-crit.

Noken
03-17-2006, 12:32 PM
I love it, allready payed off against arch magus and several fabled dragons. Considering the ease and other values of doing the missions to get it it'd be hard to complain about much, but it's an entirely new tool and something new to work with, so definately nice to have.

Dari
03-17-2006, 12:33 PM
I don't have it yet (haven't bothered with the expansion yet) but it seems from reading the spell description that the range is really limited.
Other than that, will be interesting to see how this works out and what focus we will have available for it.

Aelfin
03-17-2006, 12:34 PM
useful so far in everything except ToB. no point wasting a spell slot to mem this, there. AE/dots far exceed its ability.

otherwise, useful in everything else i've tried it with so far. useful as is, but would like to see it heal a bit more. 1600-1800-ish, even.
i do wish the recast were even a tick faster, tho.
i do think this line should be fleshed out more. druids having a lesser form of it much earlier could gain a lot.

Fenier
03-17-2006, 01:01 PM
I have not used it alot, but so far its been amazingly handy.

I don't yet have a focus which will work, so it maxes at 1920 for me. Even with that amount, having max gift I do see a fair amount of Criticals.

The Range is ok I think, its slightly longer then the cleric AE heal range, while being shorter then a paladins.

I do (still) think recast of 12 is more then enough, but 18 is workable in most situations.

-Fenier

elty
03-17-2006, 01:34 PM
Moonshadow is too weak for current content. 1500 hp group heal every 18 seconds just doesnt cut it for AE DoT that do 2000 damage a TICK.

If you take a look at cleric and shaman new group heal, you can see it is just a group version of their lv 65 GoD spell that cost 3x as much mana. However Moonshadow is probably based on our lv 60 spell: Nature's Touch. This severely hinder the effectiveness of the spell. Of cuz it is ok if all you fight is Qvic goat.

It is correct to say, having Moonshadow is better than not having it, however, this spell is not up to par compare to shméclr counterpart. I think the correspondant should suggest SOE to model Moonshadow just like the clr/shm new spell: make it based off Sylvan Infusion: Group heal for 2441 that cost 1821 mana.

Kaidman
03-17-2006, 04:39 PM
Moonshadow has been good so far. Used through trash clearing, Roley, Performer, and Mayong kills yesterday. I disagree with those saying it is not helpful vs some AEs. The amount of healing/second of Moonshadow is far higher than any heals we have. If used correctly on larger AEs you should be mixing up group heal with single heals. Think of it as an added form of DPS, but from a healing standpoint.

With a 30% beneficial haste and AOD (10% beneficial haste buff). Not taking into account healing adept / gift because the would just scale up relatively the same.

Ancient Chlorobon:
3094 healed / 2.3 seconds = 1345 healed/second

Moonshadow:
9000 (6x1500) / 3.2 seconds = 2812 healed/second

Of course you have to use Ancient while Moonshadow refreshes. Using the 2 in combination you will have a much higher HPS (healed/sec).

Started this post like 2 hours ago, probably outdated already~

Netura
03-18-2006, 01:40 AM
I like it just fine. Considering I got along doing content with AE's before Moonshadow just fine, I keep it memmed, and pop it off when GoM procs. Works like a charm.

Sildan
03-18-2006, 08:20 AM
Haven't tried iot in ToB yet but used it for Vishi last night and it was perfect. Time enough to get 2 casts off between AEs kept everyone pretty close to perfectly healed.

12 second recast would be nice though

Glynna1
03-19-2006, 11:31 AM
Keep in mind this is a close range heal. I have used it a lot and Vish is a good example. I had exceptional heals over 4500. Like it so far.

Winenose
03-20-2006, 05:00 AM
Yea, it rocks on vishimtar. I was like "woot, woot, first time I can use it to good effect" and then I was put into group with cleric and 4 paladins...

Anyway, it's good for demiplane trash and anything else with AE damage. I'd like to see it have no recast tho.. even if that would increase the mana cost. Would be useful in some ToB fights.

It's a good tool for a raiding druid and I like it a LOT.

Welas
03-20-2006, 04:51 PM
Does anyone know what focii will work for Moonshadow? Marr's Gift (or Blessing) and Discordant Healing don't seem to work with it.

stratofortress
03-21-2006, 09:40 AM
... 4950 crits with Blessing of the Pious and maxed AAs.

MariuzDevereux
03-21-2006, 11:08 AM
So far I'm fairly happy with Moonshadow. It is situational, but we all knew that before getting it. Don't seem to have too many problems pulling agro, so it seems they balanced that right.

The range of the spell sucks, but hey, its meant to be a close range spell, so can't hate too much on it. If it's bigger than Cleric's range, guess we really can't/shouldn't complain.

Personally i would like to see the heal base a little higher. It would be fair to make it based off Sylvan infusion, or possible somewhere between Sylvan and Nature's. I'm just happy we have this tool at our disposal now. Personally i HATE the recast time on it.... it's a mana-hog / agro-hog spell already, so it's not like many druids can spam it many times before going OOM. With the AEs in PRo as often as they do, I believe they should lower the recast time....that or they need to make it so mobs don't chain AEs.

Other than that, this is one happy druid. :clap:

Minervaa
03-21-2006, 01:57 PM
Does anyone know what focii will work for Moonshadow? Marr's Gift (or Blessing) and Discordant Healing don't seem to work with it.

Discordant Healing specifically doesn't work on group v1 heal spells, which Moonshadow falls in the category of. Odd that you say Marr's isn't working, I'm using the Marr's Blessing focus on my Quarm shield as the focus for Moonshadow, and it's definitely working. 4.5k crits with all healing adept AA's and the aforementioned focus.

Kzar
03-21-2006, 03:46 PM
I thought my tacvi shield worked on it... need to check again.

Kaidman
03-21-2006, 05:36 PM
Tacvi shield should work for sure. All the OoW focuses were setup to work with group heals that I seen. When they reworked Tacvi loot they went in and placed OoW focuses on these instead of the GoD focuses. (so all the Tacvi gear would go to level 70 focuses instead of level 67/68). The GoD focuses were a fairly nice increase over PoP, but they sure liked to limit them down quite a bit. Potime you could get a focus which worked on all spell types (magic/fire/ice) while in GoD they separated them all out and did not have a focus which worked for all 3 (unless they slapped older focuses on an item).

Welas
03-22-2006, 08:57 AM
I'm a bonehead and must have had a bad RNG streak when I checked it, but it does appear that Marr's line is working on Moonshadow.

joks
03-22-2006, 11:12 AM
It's only the Gates of Discord foci where they decided to make special focus effects for both single target and group heals. Sucks when you're relying on Qvic arms for heal focus.

As for the strength of the group heal - It's about the same level as the paladin group heals. It has a bit better hp/mana ratio, and faster recast time, but slower cast time and shorter ae range (but still slightly better than clerics). While it may not be as strong as cleric or shammy group heals, it still means that the average raid guild will have a lot more options when setting up groups for ae mobs. Now druid and paladin will be able to do about the same as clerics, which will be a huge help in for instance MPG trial of specialization. I think the new spell, along with the new cleric and shammy group hot's is a huge upgrade to the guild. But then again, I'm just a puny paladin who loves to play my class, so I'm not really into the whole class envy thing :)

Silxie
03-27-2006, 11:41 PM
Moonshadow is awesome for MPG trials.. we just did Specialization.. Happy, happy druid channel.

Stephen51
03-28-2006, 05:22 AM
Erm I am not the expert Druid, mine is only 54.My Girlfriends Druid is 70 and has Moonshadow. One of the first things I noticed on it was the recast time or lack of. The spell popped back up as soon as it was cast. This surprised me as I had heard it had a long recast in line with Paladin group heals (I was ashamed to hear it was Paladins who complained about the lack of recast time in Beta as it was better than theirs. Having a Pally as a main I felt this was stupid as 1. Paladins seem always to be subject to requests to be nerf from other classes and 2. Paladins have 4 group heals of differing strength, so although they cant chain cast the strongest they can cast 2 or three back to back if need be). I will double check this tonight, but I think SoE un-nerfed the nerf. As a Pally I've no qualms about this having no recast.

Winenose
03-28-2006, 05:55 AM
Moonshadow has a decent recast time..
18 seconds by lucy view (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=8498&source=Live).

Dayuna
03-28-2006, 09:10 AM
Had an 18 second recast as of last night.

Nimchip
03-28-2006, 06:07 PM
And it should be less... we should not be balanced with Hybrids.

Welas
03-29-2006, 08:51 AM
I have to say I am loving this spell for raids!

Fanra
03-30-2006, 12:34 PM
I'm very happy to finally have a group heal.

The problems mentioned (recast time, focuses, range and need for it to heal more, etc.) are things that, naturally, I would support improving. I haven't used it enough to say how much (if at all) they are problems, however.

Dayuna
03-30-2006, 02:08 PM
Whilst raiding, this spell has made group healing a fair amount easier. The recast has only been a minor annoyance (having to wait an extra 2-3 seconds to hit it again) at it's worst (and only in rare situations) for me. Increasing the amount healed a tad wouldn't be a bad thing (push it slightly over 2k with AAs) but all-in-all the spell in it's current state is a good one.

Fanra
03-31-2006, 12:16 AM
Ok, just used it some more.

The range really needs to be improved. It should be the same as our main heals. According to Lucy, it has a range of 75 vs. 200 for Ancient Chlorobon.

I can't see why it shouldn't also have a range of 200.

Winenose
03-31-2006, 03:54 AM
You can't just expect to stand wherever you want and automatically hit moonshadow every 18 seconds. This spell actually takes a bit of skill in positioning to use. Check who's in your group, where they usually are and communicate that they should be fairly close together for group heal to work. It's not hard, just a little effort required past the "click spell icon".

Aldier
03-31-2006, 04:27 AM
An unfortunate delimea I am having is that I still use Qvic arms for my healing focus (45% to 68). My guild farms Anguish(-OMM) and has beaten Vish several times. I have continued to pass on the Anguish boots because the only difference over Qvic arms was 9% on the ancient nuke and Vish shoulders would be nicer for me. I wasn't lucky enough to get a tacvi heal focus in the few trips we made there as sort of an afterthought. Now, with Moonshadow, I find myself without a heal focus that effects it. Anguish boots become more useful as you now gain that group heal focus boost.


Does extended range foci effect Moonshadow?

Dayuna
03-31-2006, 09:06 AM
Ok, just used it some more.

The range really needs to be improved. It should be the same as our main heals. According to Lucy, it has a range of 75 vs. 200 for Ancient Chlorobon.

I can't see why it shouldn't also have a range of 200.

Word of Vivification (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=5270&source=Live) - range 70
Word of Redemption (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=1523&source=Live) - range 70
Wave of Piety (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=5296&source=Live) - range 100

So, why does moonshadow need a range of 200? At most if should be 100, and it's really just fine at 70. Clerics deal with people running out of range all the time. It's not a new thing for the game, just new for druids.

Fanra
03-31-2006, 09:30 AM
Clerics deal with people running out of range all the time. It's not a new thing for the game, just new for druids.
It's not someone running out of range.

It is when I go raiding, we position the healers in one spot and the melee fight in another.

This is the same problem that auras have.

Sure, if I wanted to be summoned for healing aggro and killed by every mini boss mob there is, as well as get attacked by the adds, I can stand close enough to heal everyone in my group.

Never mind the older mobs with their line of sight AEs.

I don't know how / if you raid higher guild level mobs but I can't imagine anyone who does not cursing the limited range of these spells.

These fights are designed to be fought in this manner, if they aren't, I would like to hear from people who are fighting them with everyone hugging each other (must be the proper level for the fight, uber geared and AA'ed people fighting normal NToV mobs and the like don't count).

Fanra
03-31-2006, 09:43 AM
Ack! My bad.

I should have known from the name, Moonshadow, that it was designed for druids to follow around the melee to use it.

I'm being followed by a Moonshadow (casting druid) (http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Cat-Stevens/Moonshadow.html)

:band:

Dayuna
03-31-2006, 09:44 AM
These fights are designed to be fought in this manner, if they aren't, I would like to hear from people who are fighting them with everyone hugging each other (must be the proper level for the fight, uber geared and AA'ed people fighting normal NToV mobs and the like don't count).

There's also more than one way to organize a lot of raids, but we would have to discuss specific examples for that. In general however, when I'm given a melee group to heal I will go with the melee, or if there's a really good reason not to I'll use SI to heal AE damage. If I'm given a caster group, then we organize ourselves to be in range. My point is, it's possible to organize things slightly differently and get drastically better results.

Dayuna
03-31-2006, 09:45 AM
Ack! My bad.

I should have known from the name, Moonshadow, that it was designed for druids to follow around the melee to use it.

I'm being followed by a Moonshadow (casting druid) (http://www.seeklyrics.com/lyrics/Cat-Stevens/Moonshadow.html)

:band:
Funny you should mention that song, my roomate started trying to learn that song on his guitar last night =p

Kaidman
03-31-2006, 01:28 PM
Shrug, I'm the raid leader. People stand where I want them or they can go hang outside the instance =p. If you are having issues with where your raid is setup that is something to talk to the leader about, our heal range is just as good as clerics' so I'm satisfied.

Tasahof
04-04-2006, 05:01 PM
Best druid spell in some time, if you want to make it better... get a solid heal focus (Dragon Health+) and a solid benefitial range extension (Wurine Distance, etc). Between those 2, this spell is loaded 24/7 for me. Any time I would normally need to direct heal 2 members of my group, I just hit Moonshadow and save mana in the end.

In terms of the recast, ya we fought pretty hard in beta to get it lowered, but if u plan ahead you can make it work just fine.

Bauhb
04-07-2006, 12:42 AM
if you want to make it better... get a solid beneficial range extension (Wurine Distance, etc).

Whoa, range focii increse AE ranges as well?

Nimchip
04-07-2006, 01:56 AM
Whoa, range focii increse AE ranges as well?

There's no indicating otherwise.

Kaidman
04-07-2006, 07:51 AM
Whoa, range focii increse AE ranges as well?

No. Beneficial ER does not work on Group Heals. Did testing just now to make sure I was correct. Got just into range without a beneficial ER item on. Backed up 1 step and confirmed that Moonshadow was not hitting. Put on my beneficial ER again and cast, still not hitting.

Eldrynn
04-07-2006, 01:02 PM
JMHO, but I hate stupid quests. They mean you actually need a group of people that want to do them. No one ever wants to do them! Let's see, I'm still so far behind that I don't even have (all) my 70 omens spells yet. Have yet to even step foot in PoR. People are so effin self-centered.

Will I ever see my auras? No. Will I ever get the PoR spells? No. How will I ever progress into Anguish when my guild gets there without signets???Anything that takes a decent group to do will never get done. I did solo the slipgear gem quest, so I guess there are some things. Sometimes I feel this game is too retarded.

Don't get me wrong. I love raiding with my guild and the quests DON'T need to be nerfed or anything. I'm just upset at the state of getting groups to do anything worth while. That being said, Moonshadow would be nice to have but it's almost impossible to get.

Fanra
04-07-2006, 02:27 PM
Don't get me wrong. I love raiding with my guild and the quests DON'T need to be nerfed or anything. I'm just upset at the state of getting groups to do anything worth while. That being said, Moonshadow would be nice to have but it's almost impossible to get.
I can feel your pain.

After I get my item, I don't normally want to go back and do the task again. However, I do it at times to help out people in my guild. They also give experience.

I find it strange that since you are a member of a guild that you are having such problems. These tasks give out a reward to almost everyone (all spell casters normally want their spells and the Moonshadow tasks give everyone a key to the Theater of Blood when all are completed).

While I'm not planning on doing much in the Theater of Blood soon, almost everyone loves to have keys to as many places as they can.

As for soloing, Sony has made it clear (agree with them or not) that the game is about grouping and raiding. In addition, Moonshadow is a group spell. It is useless for people who only solo to even bother to get it.

Hardeeman
04-08-2006, 10:34 PM
I love the fact that we actually have a grp heal at all. The range is larger at 75 than a clerics at 70 and yet not as large as a pallies. Mana cost seems liek a lot sure, but the total amount it can heal throughout the grp per cast makes it extremely efficient. Don't look at it as 1100 mana per cast, but as less than 200 mana per 1500 per person in the grp. By far the most efficient healing spell we have. Sure it's situational as most won't need it on a regular basis, but those of us who raid plenty know it's a highly valuable tool. Should it be higher base healed? IMO I think this spell is perfect just how it is for us. We are a multi role class overall and to increase the base, decrease the recast, or to increase the range would only do one thing. Make us healing class. I for oen prefer to keep that flexibility and hate the fact that sony has been tuning us to the healing role more and more, but I say kudos for this long overdue spell.

Kinyenya
05-03-2006, 04:54 AM
JMHO, but I hate stupid quests. They mean you actually need a group of people that want to do them. No one ever wants to do them! Let's see, I'm still so far behind that I don't even have (all) my 70 omens spells yet. Have yet to even step foot in PoR. People are so effin self-centered.

Will I ever see my auras? No. Will I ever get the PoR spells? No. How will I ever progress into Anguish when my guild gets there without signets???Anything that takes a decent group to do will never get done. I did solo the slipgear gem quest, so I guess there are some things. Sometimes I feel this game is too retarded.

Don't get me wrong. I love raiding with my guild and the quests DON'T need to be nerfed or anything. I'm just upset at the state of getting groups to do anything worth while. That being said, Moonshadow would be nice to have but it's almost impossible to get.

Once u get over to Saryrn Server Eldrynn and join us in Shards of Time, you will never be bored again:p The 70 spells drop like water for us and are down to about 5 DKP each when not grouped but done in raid. comared to 125 DKP they started out at. Grouping for quests is really something Shards of Time is good at, we consistently try to help each other out and get the spells and stuff thats needed. Now it might not be like immediately happen cause other things come up or not the right classes are on at the time. But it does get done.

So hold onto your halo honey cause u be coming home soon.

Dari
05-13-2006, 10:37 AM
This spell is really easy to get. My SK partner and I duo'd it several times for the aug and grins. Now that I have used this spell, I will say that I love having a group heal. I think the recast time is not too bad and I can live with it. I would like to see it heal for a base of 2k though. For the mana cost, it would be nice to see it be a bit more effective. Rather than a mana cost reduction though, I think a slight heal increase would be more beneficial.

Kinyenya
05-15-2006, 04:55 AM
Additional confirmation on ER for the group heal. It doesnt work. Was in RCOD today doing signets cause we almost to anguish and the tank was in the same room but out of range of the group heal but i could hit him with a single heal. Everyone else was getting hit with it cept for him. Lol, damn manna drainers:physics:

Fenier
05-15-2006, 07:26 AM
Moonshadow has less then half the heal range of a single target 3.75 heal.

-Fenier

Fenlayen
05-15-2006, 10:55 AM
Moonshadow has less then half the heal range of a single target 3.75 heal.

-Fenier

Yeah its a problem with all priest class group heals :(