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Hardeeman
04-08-2006, 12:31 PM
What would you like to see as far as improvements to the class?

Personally I think some increase to our DPS to bring it more in line with our healing power would be a nice change. Our nukes are fine I think with the possible slight increase to base dmg closer to 2500. I think our biggest loss is really in our DoT power and would like to see an increase here. An upgraded swarm would be lovely and another fire base increase of possibly 600 base would work rather nicely.

The way I see it is our healing has been upgraded rather nicely. With the application of Skin of the Reptile, Moonshadow, and our Ancient: Chlorotrope. We're second best healing class in game right behind clerics. Alot of our utility spells have become obsolete though, mainly our port spells (not that i'm complaining here) and personally even though we excel in the regen dept., who really focuses on getting regen? Unless it's a lvl 1-20 I've never been asked for a regen. I do still apply this to my grp on certain raids, but the lack of additional buff slots the majority of the ppl either click it off or never even bother to ask.

Kaidman
04-08-2006, 01:08 PM
I seek wolf forms that are in line with our Mask line buff (mana regen wise) and other forms! I signed up to shapeshift on day 1 yo.

Madily
04-08-2006, 01:21 PM
Word. A new tree illusion spell is what I am looking for.

Hardeeman
04-08-2006, 03:32 PM
I can understand the want for wolf form, but tree? I do realise it's a form we can alter in to and yet to consider the lack of tree friendly zones would probably not ever see this.

Madily
04-08-2006, 04:39 PM
I guess I should have added a ;) after that. I was being sarcastic :texla:

Hardeeman
04-08-2006, 10:26 PM
LOL hard to see sarcasm without the words behind it.

On a diferent note though. How would you guys like to see class specific mounts? Say a Dire Wolf for druid class, an undead mount for Necro's and so forth.

Stambo
04-09-2006, 02:42 PM
Personally I think druids should have gotten Unicorn Mounts not paladins since we're a Nature class. Pally should have had warhorse mounts. lol

Fenier
04-09-2006, 03:46 PM
Just say no to Unicorn mounts for Druids.

Palarran
04-09-2006, 03:46 PM
Clearly Stambo is a paladin that wants to inflict on druids what was done to paladins! :P

Taeyn Kaidyrsi
04-09-2006, 07:22 PM
I'd love a unicorn for a mount. Very wrong choice for a paladin.

DruidDaghda
04-09-2006, 08:10 PM
I would like to see utility buffs get some attention, something that would be worth getting and that would be desired by other classes. I agree that we are now good healers and can heal in most situations, one improvement that would help thou would be lowering the mana cost so that we can cast more often.
I can see the point of view of the devs about not wanting to make us over powered since we are a do it all class but I think that thinking has left us a little underpowered when it comes to completeing groups. Now I dont think we need a major boost in all fields but i do think a slight increase to some of our abilities would round us off better like we were before all the expansions.
One other thing is they should change all of our "roleplaying" abilities so that they can accually serve a purpose in groups.

Dayuna
04-09-2006, 08:14 PM
Wake of Karana + Yar'lag = Yar'less-lag

Practical raid applications of fun spells!

DruidDaghda
04-09-2006, 10:58 PM
Ill have to admit that wake of karana is one of the roleplaying spells that is accually useful in group and raids.
Now can some one tell me some other classes roleplaying abilities that are useless other than roleplaying, seriously i would like to know.

Winenose
04-10-2006, 05:46 AM
All illusions (except maybe wolf/werewolf, which adds like +atk?)

And I know paladins can kill themselves or something.. with an AA.. ?

Fenier
04-10-2006, 10:06 AM
Act of Valor. Transfers all hitpoints the paladin has to the target - saving them while killing the Paladin.

Aelfin
04-10-2006, 02:19 PM
I think Sunbeam should kill all vampires.

Nearglaan
04-10-2006, 04:22 PM
I'd like to see an upgrade to the DoT's as well.

And could we add a Ring/Circle spell for all zones? And increase the number of pages in my spell book as a result? As a Druid I have affinity with all lands. And could we make them all nearly manaless? They are mostly useless to everyone else these days anyway. ;)

Dayuna
04-11-2006, 12:20 AM
I can tell you with some certainty one thing that should ~not~ appear ever again...

spin stun bats ><

Tryon
04-11-2006, 02:13 AM
I would like to see us with the ability to Mez and mem blur animals. We can charm and fear them, why not mez? Seeing as how few mobs are animals, this would not be overpowering.

I also think we should be given a tree form that casts an aura over the group granting mana/endurance regen.

And how about a PBAoE root.

We need a new Cold/Fire resist, an upgrade to the Seasons line. And does anyone actually EVER use Anti-summoned nukes? I'd like to see them made more useful.

wolficus
04-11-2006, 04:15 AM
And does anyone actually EVER use Anti-summoned nukes?

lol, only ever used them in BB LDoNs in my 30's. never found any other use for them. kind of crap unless they put some summoned stuff in XP zones thats worthwhile at 70!

wolficus

Dethwin
04-11-2006, 07:09 AM
Would like to see Endurance regen buff line and high dps line of magic nukes. Not holding my breath for either.

Laurelleii
04-11-2006, 07:59 AM
A way to help with endurance regen would be really nice. A small touch up to our nukes would sure be wonderful.

The class specific mounts is kindof a neat novelty idea. Personally I'd pass on the Unicorn to get the Nightmares the SK's got :p

I always thought Tiger mounts would be really cool.

Amped
04-11-2006, 08:36 AM
I realize it has been talked about before, and not to shoot a dead horse, but what about an upgrade to dire charm. ATM I play a 70 druid with 230 + aas and not one was spent on dire charm for it's lack of usefulness in xp zones.

The animal mezz / memblur is an awesome idea as well. Also I agree with slightly reduced mana costs for our heals. However, using Ancient: Chlorobon as a normal heal spell just isnt practical to a large majority of the druid population as most of us do not and probably never will have it. Use Chlorotrope as your base and you will see what the rest of us are working with. Skin of the reptile REALLY helps out now that I have it though, so making Chlorotrope cost less would be making me a LOT more efficient.

Hardeeman
04-11-2006, 09:28 AM
Ancient chlor is only a slight upgrade from chloro. I have used chloro myself, as well as those who have the ancient. We know what you are working with on that area. My point is that our healing is perfect the way it is now. If we see any upgrades i'd rather see them more in tune with our DPS and utility line. If they continue to upgrade our healing then we will get stuck in a solo role of healing groups. I like being able to just take a day off from healing period and do some dps, however the zones I go to our DPS is a tad weak compared to healing. If they want to keep us balanced as a class then IMO our DPS should be in line with our healing power. Word from the fan faire is they will be lookign into the caster DPS such as wiz, mage but nothing really specific on druids.

The class specific mounts is just a fun idea I think would be a nice little Sony saying ty to all those who stuck it out through the years and Welcome to the new players. Maybe instead of a set mount per class they could give ppl an option of mount type. I'd love to have something (not a bear, or epic) showing hey there's a druid.

Spin stun bats are the shiz. Really they aren't so bad just annoying.

Tryon
04-11-2006, 10:02 AM
With all this talk about a class-specific mount, it's making me want a Griffon mount. It shouldn't be able to fly, of course, just levitate (this wouldn't be unbalencing because we already get several levitates).

Oh god, this takes be back to the days of charming a Griffon and freaking out all the noobs in the East Commonland's tunnel.

Fenier
04-12-2006, 07:49 AM
And how about a PBAoE root.

We get an AE root at 60.

Amped
04-12-2006, 10:52 AM
Not to sound stupid, but what is this spell of which you speak? We get a AE snare, Bonds of Tunare, but i know nothing of a AE root.

Kaidman
04-12-2006, 10:54 AM
Entrapping Root or something similar to that. It's not a PBAE, it is a targetted AE similar to our targetted nukes it only hits a set amount of targets. PBAE root would make some things in Demiplane a bit too easy ^_^.

Amped
04-12-2006, 11:08 AM
Too easy to flag mobs as resistant / immune to run speed changes. I think a PBAE root would be awesome for XP zones that lots of folks go to. Demi plane is sort of an exclusive club atm.

Amped
04-12-2006, 11:33 AM
Too easy to flag mobs as resistant / immune to run speed changes. I think a PBAE root would be awesome for XP zones that lots of folks go to. Demi plane is sort of an exclusive club atm.

tatankawd
04-12-2006, 01:05 PM
Entrapping Root or something similar to that. It's not a PBAE, it is a targetted AE similar to our targetted nukes it only hits a set amount of targets. PBAE root would make some things in Demiplane a bit too easy ^_^.

Yes, entrapping roots. Limited to 5 targets. I used to use it all the time in ME against the toilers. This was before the horse model nerf. I'd kite 10-15 of them and start quadding. By the time I ran near OOM there would be 5 or less left, and I'd AE root them and lay on free dots while medding (on my invisible horse :)

Worked pretty well until PoP came out and openned up new solo spots. Haven't used the spell since then.

Tat

Iliven
04-14-2006, 02:14 PM
With all this talk about a class-specific mount, it's making me want a Griffon mount. It shouldn't be able to fly, of course, just levitate (this wouldn't be unbalencing because we already get several levitates).

Oh god, this takes be back to the days of charming a Griffon and freaking out all the noobs in the East Commonland's tunnel. Very cool idea, except maybe like an eagle or something instead of a griffon. Any other thoughts?

Spiritis
04-17-2006, 08:32 AM
I'd like to see our vs animals line increased. We can already debuff, charm, and haste them. I'd love to see a 30% animal-only slow. Granted there aren't many animals lately, but places like arcstone have the kirins (which are actually flagged as animals this time around). I haven't explored PoR enough to know what other zones have animals.

I'd love to see any type of new utility. An upgrade to FoE would be nice..maybe something along the lines of spirit of cheetah that doesn't break when you cast or attack something. An endurance regen would be a HUGE boon to the class, although I would really be partial to having us be the only ones with it or at least the best one so people actually want it. I'd love to see some sort of mana regen AA for us. Something on par with the mana regen of the beastlord AA's but self only. A class-specific mount would be cool...I'd be partial to a cheetah since they're fast /grin.

Kinyenya
04-17-2006, 09:50 AM
A class specific mount would be nice. Ive always been partial to dragons.... Lets keep sony away from the Bears.

Iliven
04-18-2006, 10:45 PM
Be kinda cool if they had an Eagle Form like Wolf/Tree Form that comes with SoE. *Dreams*

alyn cross
07-23-2006, 08:07 AM
regarding the mention of Act of Valor, and it's ability to kill the paladin, saving the target....don't forget that AoV used to crash the whole zone, too! /cackle i actually like that AA, it's very very paladin-esque, and i've actually seen it used once or twice...

regarding the anti-summoned line of dd's, i use it all the time in relic... makes me feel almost like a wizard, what with that low-mana cost. /cackle

the problem with illusions and mounts is they need to add the model to every zone, in which you'd be able to cast it. not sure if that's still the pain in the arse for them it was 3 years ago or not. still, the eagle form movement buff sounds interesting... that or an aa upgrade to cheetah which turns you into the cat.

Silxie
07-23-2006, 05:19 PM
Cold resist/attk debuff would be fantastic and so would an endurance regen buff, which is something we used to have but with the changes to endurance it became a dead spell. I love the idea of a flying mount. Im happy with healing right now, mana cost still kills me, but reptile makes me happy enough to not care.

Fanra
07-23-2006, 06:15 PM
Lower the mana cost of heals, increase DD and DoT damage.

Fix wolf form.

Endurance boost would be a plus.

Fix Steeloak / Group Steeloak so they overwrite each other, same with soe / foe.

Upgrade to Pure Blood.

Add buff timer to Aura spells, allow clicking off of Aura spells from buff box. Increase duration of Aura spells.

Increase mana regen.

Fenier
07-23-2006, 10:27 PM
so would an endurance regen buff

No

This is a melee problem, this is not a Druid issue, we don't use Endurance. Sony needs to address how melee regen Endurance without making them dependant on another class for that. I am *really* against us trying to be saviors of the melee by allowing them to regen faster when the system is whats broken.

Shaman have a thread on the same topic here:

http://crucible.samanna.net/viewtopic.php?t=2702

Netura
07-24-2006, 01:26 AM
Having an Endurance regen tagged onto some of our pre-existing spells isn't a bad idea at all. Having xxx end regen / tick added to our OoW regen spell isn't a bad idea, and would make a good use out of a fairly useless spell.

I'm sorry you don't won't us to be the savior's of melee Fen. However, an endurance boost of some sort, if implemented well, could be a nice addition to our spell line up. Example: Add a +300(or whatever) Endurance boost to Wrath of the Wild.

alyn cross
07-24-2006, 01:58 AM
dont think i ever heard a chanter complain about being given clarity, way back when they introduced it.... /cackle

i disagree fen, they wouldn't be any more dependant than we are on chanters. or the shamen who make potions. can you honestly tell me you've never gotten a hit of c before going out to do a little xp? or asked for a dex buff before doing some tailoring combines? gotten a symbol before soloing some summoner type mobs? use a potion? does that make you dependant?

interdependancies are what this game is about. i don't want to be anyone's savior, but i wouldn't sneer at a possible new role added to my lineup. in case you forgot, we HAD an endurance regen spell before the whole system was changed (i think all priests did). hell, the only thing you needed it for at that time was to jump or swim, but still...

there is no reason to blow over a potential boost to the class(s) that had it before... if you're afraid of level 50 pl'd alts begging you for buffs in pok, put em on ignore.

/cackles

Shage
07-24-2006, 03:24 AM
Ice dot would be nice.

Naturer
07-24-2006, 04:47 AM
wrath of the wild may seem insignificant...cool little dueling aa if i may so blatantly say so myself. aa-wise

ice dot...i know i drooled over that in another thread, and if its good it would be a sweet addition.

i desperately want to see an upgrade to FoE, our current best consistent runspeed buff.

i can only assume and hope we get a new fire dot . "Spell: Pants on Fire"

Fenier
07-24-2006, 07:29 AM
i disagree fen, they wouldn't be any more dependant than we are on chanters. or the shamen who make potions. can you honestly tell me you've never gotten a hit of c before going out to do a little xp? or asked for a dex buff before doing some tailoring combines? gotten a symbol before soloing some summoner type mobs? use a potion? does that make you dependant?

Actually, I can. I don't beg for buffs. I don't pay for buffs, nor do I request them. Sabreyn can verify this. Infact, all my first attempt solo kills are with selfbuffs / clicks only.

Secondly, your chanter comparison is flawed because the Enchanter in question actually gains from clairty. They have use for it.

We have no use for Endurance. None.

Frankly, given the option of getting something interesting which helps us as a class, or getting something which only helps another class, I'll take the former.

Its not our issue. I don't think that Shamans, Druids or Clerics should be held accountable for melee being able to do X more often then they are now. Add endurance regen to existing items, increase it via melee AA, don't band-aid fix it by making the priests responisable for bad programming.

-Fenier

Spiritis
07-24-2006, 07:38 AM
There are lots of buffs people get that they don't actually use. The clarity line increases wisdom...why bother if the chanter class can't benefit? Endurance regen items should be introduced to allow melee folks to regen more of their endurance while fighting. Hopefully something akin to the hp regen rules can be introduced as well. If they decide to give druids endurance regen, I'd like to see it added to all hp regen spells. That would boost the need for those buffs and prevent people from needing to dedicate a buff slot to end regen.

WiLdOnE786
07-24-2006, 08:28 AM
We have no use for Endurance. None.



You don't jump!?! /gasp

Fenier
07-24-2006, 08:58 AM
You don't jump!?! /gasp

I seriously doubt any player needs to jump often enough to warrent a buff just for that purpose.

Vekx
07-24-2006, 09:24 AM
I think i heard about a new quest coming soon which includes playing hopscotch against some uber NPC.

alyn cross
07-24-2006, 05:11 PM
come on, fen, perhaps you can then, in your non-dependant world account for the fact that we have to heal the melee? /cackle

i can see that now "/rsay sorry folks, i'm not healing anyone. not having 1000000000 hp is the tanks problem not mine."

grossly exagerated situation to make a point, yes, but the point is made. you may try things with only self buffs, but i can assure you you have made use of others buffs or potions. Oh, wait, i know, tell me you've never gained agro by accident!

"/rsay sorry fen, not being able to lose agro is your fault not mine, i don't need to taunt to get the mob off you..." quoth the secondary tank...

give me an argument to suggest why we shouldn't have the ability to aid another... and don't tell me 'it's not my problem' or 'i don't use endurance'. because in a round about way, you do. if that tank isn't defensive, or the raid doesn't burn offensive discs... you might die. then not having the 1000000000 hp is YOUR problem, not theirs, right?

you DO benefit. you DO utilize endurance... you're just not seeing how. tis the same way the warrior benefits from mana, in the form of buffs and heals. deny that, demonize THAT, and you'll have an argument that might sway others. Until then, sorry, you just aren't standing on sure footing.

/cackles

Fenier
07-24-2006, 07:00 PM
Dispite your flawed arguement, We *druids* have no use for an endurance regen buff. It doesn't effect our ability to do anything as a class. It doesn't stop us from casting when we're out.

Every single other buff we get helps us as well. All shaman buffs can help the shaman. All chanter buffs can help the chanter. Every class has buffs and spells which advance the class, and in some cases help additional classes.

Endurance regen does not fall into this catagory. The only viable way to do this is to tie it to our exisiting regen spells, but frankly thats a stupid idea because it still doesn't *solve* the problem. The only thing making melee dependant on buffs for end regen does is make it so the system is still broken, and now they inconvience another class at the same time. It's not a winning situation. They need to actually fix the system at a base level, then and only then determine the need for any endurance regen spells.

Discs are not ment to be used 24/7, this is why they have recycle timers. Regen should be enough that regen for using a disc is regened while the disc is down. If you want to chain 4 or 5 discs, and then go out of endurance, it is realisitc to expect to have to regen it in a normal, slightly accelerated manner then current. It shouldn't be required to have a Priest in the group for a class to function. Note I didn't say perform well, but to function at all.

Downtime in general is being redone, and I don't see them making changes to what we get for spells in this way until its tested in Beta. I actually remember what it was like to cast Invigor every 5 minutes or so on a melee and personally I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

-Fenier

Netura
07-25-2006, 12:53 AM
Despite your logic that just because you can solo things with only self buffs, doesn't mean that it is most efficient to do so. You mention clicky items. Did you gain these without help from those who use endurance?

Does an enchanter really gain that much, to themselves, from their haste? Considering charm is effectively a moot point nowadays, and their pets are jokes as dps, at the best...they do not. LETS TAKE AWAY CHANTER HASTE!11!!one. Except not. Melee DPS is entirely reliant upon the classes around them. Melee DPS classes are also insanely powerful, being able to do decent amounts of DPS with just regular attacks; especially if there are other classes around to support them.

As of right now, druids have only one thing to offer straight-dps classes, and that is lions strength. Throwing in an endurance regen of some sort would surely not make us the "fatigue pumping bitches of yester-year", however, It would make us more desirable in high dps groups.

alyn cross
07-25-2006, 01:33 AM
fen, i guess we just disagree and you're not going to look farther than your own paper doll. i just hope that attitude doesn't prevail. just becuase you personally can't utilize the idea of an endurance regen spell doesn't mean it's not a good idea. i mean really... are you going to tell the guy who asks you to cast Wake of Karana so his lag is lessened a little durirng a raid "sorry, go buy a $500 video card, your lag is not my problem", just because you dont see the benefit in the casting? does the paladin benefit from Act of Valor?

...does an individual druid benefit from a GROUP port? or a GROUP soe or a GROUP oak? in your world we wouldn't have these spells, because they cost more mana and just don't benefit the druid himself to cast. but i'm sure you don't cast those spells, because, after all, it's every man for himself, right?

sorry man, the last i'll say on it is simply this: your argument is purely selfish, and i sincerely hope the readers of this post don't concur...



i've thought of another aa or spell i'd like to have. one that makes hundreds of little grassy bushes or trees sprout out of the ground. then i can find the people who denied me a useful spell and lag them to death... /cackle

Laurelleii
07-25-2006, 01:36 AM
Every single other buff we get? Hmm, I don't melee unless I'm goofing around, wonder how useful that makes Lion's Strength to other Druids like me...

Heaven forbid we get something that can assist another class, the horror !!

I do agree that endurance regen is severely broken and something better than a regen buff of somesort is needed. But calling it not our problem is a fairly pathetic way to look at things IMO.

Fenier
07-25-2006, 07:36 AM
I can not say this enough.

The system is broken.

The system thus, needs to be fixed

Fixing Endurance regen does not mean you pass off the problem to other classes. It means you fix it on a game level. If you want to enchance it after that, fine whatever. What I am trying to explain, and is failing to be seen is - its not a class issue. Its a game issue.

Giving classes (doesn't matter which) endurance regen as a means of fixing a broken system is a excessivly poor way to handle things. It doesn't actually solve the problem. Its a limited stop gap measure. Endurance would still be broken even given a regen spell.

I am really not sure how else to phrase it. What Sony needs to do is fix their blasted system. Instead, we're sitting here discussing how to let them take the easy way out of it.

Hello? If you want them to FIX something, you don't offer them the easy way out. I fail to see why this is hard to grasp. Its not a class isssue, its not a balance issue, its a game flaw which needs to be fixed, and quite frankly, we have far better ideas which I have seen to help us and our groups/raids as a class, then becoming the scapgoat for Sony's design flaw.

EDIT:

Look at this way, saying Flowing Thought didn't work and there was no other means of Mana Regen in the game aside from Clairty. Suddenly, we died, and need to med to full - but to do this in a timely manner, we need Clairty from a chanter. But if there's no chanter in group, then we're stuck.

Same situation, replace mana with Endurance and Clairty with Regen buff.
Thats what your asking for melee to be subject to.

-Fenier

Naeyene
07-25-2006, 09:33 AM
I play a Pally and a Druid~

If (and I don't) ran out of endurance on Sabby, it would royaly suck to know I had to have a /certain/ class in my group just for me to have the ability to regen my endurance back to full.

As a druid? Maybe I am lazy, but honestly, I can think of other things I'd rather have than an endurance regen buff... =-x Maybe the ability to crit on our cheal... maybe our mask line upgraded. Or what have you. But endurance regen buff? Yeah, not on my list of things I'd want to see implemented to make druids better.

As for the endurance regen in itself. I think Sony should have to fix it. It makes little to no sense to pass it off and make it the problem of priest classes. If they do actually fix it... they could add End Regen to armor. Then viola! Problem solved. And we don't have to be involved... at all.

Can you imagine this as a warrior? They'd /have/ to make groups with Shamans or Druids. Which excludes tons of classes from being chosen, just because you can regen the endurance system that Sony has yet to fix. I can't understand how that would be balanced at all. :(

Dayuna
07-25-2006, 10:13 AM
Endurance is a hot topic and largely any kind of regen for it in the current state of the game that goes above and beyond the baseline is unbalancing. Endurance and timers are the limiting factors for disciplines. Timers balance individual abilities and endurance balances the use of all abilities. Increasing endurance regen in a way similar to flowing thought or clarity breaks the bounds imposed on melee classes and their abilities. The system in place does have a few weak points, but largely it works. Forcing a class to be reliant completely on another class is something Sony has been moving away from. Look at the potions that were introduced for a prime example. KEI in a bottle, haste and heals so tanks can solo a bit more, scaling from level 1 to 60. Melee classes don't need to be relying on other classes any mroe than they do already.

Kamion
07-25-2006, 10:56 AM
I think it's stupid how we don't have more to support melees than we do.

In the begining, shamans and druids were about equal in melee support (str buffs.) Than shamans got avater, druids got nothing. Than shamans got FA, we got nothing. Than shamans got champion, we got lions. Than shamans got str cap raising buffs / aa (wunshi + ansestral aid), we got nothing. Than shamans got panther, we got nothing. I would definaly like to see some sort of unique melee support ability added to druids, whether it be an AA or spell (personally I'ld prefer AA.) Suggested solutions would be adding another componet (ie stackable damage mod or end regen) to grove or giving us a massive/unresistable AC debuff AA.

The other side to this argument is that druids are more geared towards caster support. Excluding epic, our power in this over shamans is arguable at best, being that malos is unresistable and debuffs all 5 resists.

Dari
07-25-2006, 11:25 AM
I wish SoE would remove the DS component from SoTG and CoS. They have been rendered unuseable in far too many encounters, effectively taking away our only hot.
I'd like to see us get some melee utility. How about replacing that damn DS with a small mana / endurance regen?

I would also LOVE to see a cold-based version of HoR. When faced with FR mobs, we can merely decrease AC by such a small amount it's laughable and we can slightly reduce their CR. I'd like to see GB upgraded to one with similar effects of HoR.

Kamion is right-we've lost what little melee utility we had. Oh wait.. we can cast FoE like nobody's business! Err.. unless we're indoors. Or in DoD zones which apparently even though they seem to be outdoors, won't let us cast it.

Juniper
07-25-2006, 11:46 AM
Ice dot would be nice.

Unlikey to happen unless Necromancers and Shaman got it as well. Not that we'd complain, mind you.

Yes, Endurance regen is an issue. Moreso with Warriors than with Knights, which is why Sabby does not experience low Endurance. Few hybrids do.

Frankly, in terms of fixing the system, they're more likely to do what has been suggested: add endurance components to things like SotW/G or Paragon/Perfection, or implement endurance regen on items, then they are actually going through and fixing the system as you describe, Fenier.

Fenier
07-25-2006, 11:51 AM
The entire downtime systems are supposed to be reworked with TSS. This is good, I doubt anyone who posts here likes taking 10 minutes to get back to full mana after a death, Endurance is supposidly being adjusted at the same time, this is also good.

Cold Based attack debuffs are excellant ideas. Recent parses indicate our -attack spells decrease mob DPS and Damage anywhere from 15 to 30% when stacked.

I personally get alot of use from the ds on SoTG/CoS and would perfer to keep it. It comes in handy when solo/tanking things.

-Fenier

Netura
07-25-2006, 05:32 PM
I personally get alot of use from the ds on SoTG/CoS and would perfer to keep it. It comes in handy when solo/tanking things.
Once again you are looking at YOUR benefit from the spell, and not the whole class all around. The DS on SoTG/CoS limits its usage in current-high end raid content. While I will not say that raiding is more important than normal exp'ing/solo tanking, I will say that raid druids need any and all abilities availible to heal on raids; and our grove/wood line shouldn't be a detriment on raids.

I play a Pally and a Druid~

If (and I don't) ran out of endurance on Sabby, it would royaly suck to know I had to have a /certain/ class in my group just for me to have the ability to regen my endurance back to full.

As a druid? Maybe I am lazy, but honestly, I can think of other things I'd rather have than an endurance regen buff... =-x Maybe the ability to crit on our cheal... maybe our mask line upgraded. Or what have you. But endurance regen buff? Yeah, not on my list of things I'd want to see implemented to make druids better.

I play a monk and a druid~

If I, and I do, run out of endurance on Wackumz, It would be an amazing thing to know that there are class(es) out there that can buff (NOT PUMP!) my endurance. Sure, the ability to crit on our iCH would be nice...but if it hasn't happened after 4 years, do you think it will? Our mask line will obviously be upgraded, it has been every expansion where they have raised the levels since Velious.

Both you and Fenier talk about "making druids better in regards to their abilities on themselves". Making druids better is not necessarily the issue. Making druids MORE WANTED AND DESIRED, is. Everquest is a grouping game after all, even if there are solo components. (case in point: Group exp bonus, and solo exp nerf)

Forcing a class to be reliant completely on another class is something Sony has been moving away from. Look at the potions that were introduced for a prime example. KEI in a bottle, haste and heals so tanks can solo a bit more, scaling from level 1 to 60. Melee classes don't need to be relying on other classes any mroe than they do already.

Even with those potions, classes are still dependent/reliant upon one another. You could argue that Sony is moving away from reliance, but I beg to differ. I feel that Sony is adding mechanics to the game that allow individuals to play the game without as much help from others, however, I wouldn't call potions an indication that SoE is stepping away from inter-class-dependency...

Fenier
07-25-2006, 06:22 PM
Once again you are looking at YOUR benefit from the spell, and not the whole class all around. The DS on SoTG/CoS limits its usage in current-high end raid content. While I will not say that raiding is more important than normal exp'ing/solo tanking, I will say that raid druids need any and all abilities availible to heal on raids; and our grove/wood line shouldn't be a detriment on raids.
While I agree that there needs to be a way to use something similar on raids with Mobs present withuot making them summon, I am fairly convinced that the DS part of Grove/CoS is part of what the developers view as part of our healing model.

We don't slow, and slow would be stupid given the DS. It makes more sense logically to reduce the amount of damage the mob is doing while keeping it swinging full speed to get full benifit from the DS - and thats exactly what we do.

While I am sure the decrease in fight duration is fairly low, everytime you use it, the duration of the fight does decrease.

Editted to clairify: We have a Targetable DS Line, a Targetable High Powered/Low Duration DS line, Selfbuffed DS, AA Powered DS, and the DS attached to Wood/Grove/CoS. They all stack.

Thus, it is my belief that Verant (Not Sony) Decided that since we heal far weaker then a cleric, that the use of Damage Shields should help offset the duration of the fight. Clearly this decision was made back when only 2 slowing classes where common, but I have a feeling its impacting our current healing modal somewhat, hence why Rytan was probly so focused on giving us Barkspur as it is (no, he didn't say it directly, its just my feeling).

The Shaman healing modal is based around slow. Their HoTs + Direct heals are supposed to be enough to offset the damage that occurs after a swing due the the rate between swings being extended.

It would make sense that a similar system is in place for us with -attack debuffs and our damage shields. I think this is one of the primary reasons we got Reptile verus a normal heal over time spell. Reptile functions on a swing basis, not tick - which I believe is used to ensure the proper amount of healing is done while still attempting to keep the fight as rapid as possiable.

I would not be surpised in the least if Damage Shields are factored in to how Druids are envisioned to heal content, reguardless of the fact most players feel slow is required for any group they do.

-Fenier

Naeyene
07-25-2006, 09:37 PM
Endurance is akin to mana for melee classes, right? Wouldn't it make more sense *IF* there was to be an endurance regeneration effect added into the game that they would add it to mana regeneration buffs? Like Clarity and SA? Rather than to something that regens HPs?

Netura
07-25-2006, 09:41 PM
No, because mana is mental, and endurance is physical. HP is physical, whereas mana is not.

Netura
07-25-2006, 10:06 PM
While I am sure the decrease in fight duration is fairly low, everytime you use it, the duration of the fight does decrease.
It is low. It is insanely low.

Convergence of Spirits


Slot Description
1: Increase HP when cast by 2000
4: Increase Hitpoints v2 by 1000 per tick
8: Increase Damage Shield by 70
At its highest, CoS is a 70 point Damage shield. Assuming that a mob in an exp zone quads + kicks, 1 round every second, and that all of the mobs hits do in fact hit...we are looking at 6,300 total damage. (5 hits per second, times 18 seconds of CoS duration, times 70hp)

6,300hp is the total damage of 2 non-critting nukes. Now realise that this ability is 18 seconds, per 15 minutes. Also realise that unless you "spam sit" you won't be hit by all 4 rounds + kick of an exp group mob...ever. Especially 18 seconds in a row. Assume that the character in question doesn't have max avoidance, or max avoidance aa's. The amount of hits will still be drastically decreased. Therefore the total damage will be closer to 3780, assuming that 3 hits of each round hits. And I still think that is a high estimate. That is the damage of 1 nuke.

If there is a chance to use attack debuffs on the fight, the amount of damage also goes down, because as attack goes down, not only does the damage of the hits go down, but so do the number of hits, thus decreasing the effectiveness of a damage shield.

If you truly want to gain the most out of a damage shield, you leave the mob unslowed, and completely non-debuffed.

From a DPS perspective in exp content, CoS is about the same dps as PoR tier 1 bp, just unresistable. But with 2.5 times the re-cast timer.

-----

I would be silly to argue that our ATK debuffs are ineffective. I would also be even more silly to say that I don't use them. I always have. However, in content that I am solo healing...the amount of heals lost in the time it takes to toss on 3-attack debuffs (in order to gain the most debuffing) make them ineffective to use, unless my tank/group-members can make up for my lack of healing over that time period.

Saying that damage shields may factor in to the druid healing by making the fight shorter...is silly. It doesn't effect the amount we heal for, nor the amount that the mob hits for. It simply makes us have to heal less times total. In exp-content, healing less times total is fairly irrelevent, unless it is a tough boss fight, as med breaks can be taken as needed. Once again, the damage from a damage shield without slow and just druid debuffs will be about equal to 2 additional druid nukes non-crit (but focused) over a 36'ish second fight, which seems to be about what an exp mob lasts in a full group.

Fenier
07-25-2006, 10:27 PM
because as attack goes down, not only does the damage of the hits go down, but so do the number of hits

This is not true, Debuffing does not reduce accuracy.

Netura
07-25-2006, 10:34 PM
If you say so. Unless NPC attack is massively difference than PC attack, and unless my parses with my monk are just totally incorrect...then adding 50 attack to my monk not only increases DPS (Duh) but also increases the hit %.

Fenier
07-25-2006, 10:36 PM
Mob attack works differantly, If you really want me to i can post duration based parses which show that the accuracy of a mob only moves 1% or so due to the RNG.

The mob hits softer when it connects, it does not miss more, this was verified by Lotusfly in 2002.

Netura
07-25-2006, 10:40 PM
alright.

The fact still remains that DS is still minor DPS at best. And is a **** form of making our healing any easier.

edit: No need to post your parses. I'll run some of my own this weekend just to double check. 2002 is a long time ago, and I *know* that when I did parsings in the nest (albeit casually) a few months ago, i noticed a decrease in hit %. But /shrug, thats talking about less than 1k damage from the DS over a fight anyways, and is really minor. Even more minor than DS dps!

Lluianae
07-25-2006, 11:30 PM
The general accepted belief based on the evidence we have is that attack debuffs don't affect the connectivity (that is, hitrate%) of mobs, they are essentially the same as adding a bucketload of raw AC to whoever, and we know from parses that adding AC does not increase, nor decrease the hitrate% of a mob, it remains static. This is pretty much a core mechanic just as the function of AC is, as they are inexorably tied together so I doubt they will have been tampered with, even if its old code :) however if there are long statistically correct parses that show otherwise, can accept they do :p

If the parses were casual in the nest, then I am inclined to say it was all due to RNG that hit% shifted, and not from the use of attack debuffs. Casual isn't really good enough for definitive results due to RNG, even with over 20k hits over 5 hours, RNG can still vary (albeit smaller), which is why they need a ton of hits in order to minimise this variance.

Palarran
07-26-2006, 12:15 AM
Damage shields are quite effective when, for one reason or another, a lot of people are eating AE rampage.

Juniper
07-26-2006, 03:11 AM
Making druids better is not necessarily the issue. Making druids MORE WANTED AND DESIRED, is.

Fenier will just argue that class desirability isn't a Druid problem, it is a motivation issue on the part of the Druid.

//

I am not in favor of removing the DS from SotG/W, because I use it frequently in my level of raid and group content. What we can possibly lobby for is a spell that does this, or an alternate AA that does not share a timer.

Asking for crit cheal is a waste of energy. We have asked for years. Even Clerics admit to Druid critting cheal as being non-threatening.

//

When I've used our debuffs, I've never done all three in a row at once. They generate too much aggro. Dead druids can't heal. I will try to get one on incomming and spread the second out as I'm able. I eventually dropped Fixation for lineup reasons.

Laurelleii
07-26-2006, 07:18 AM
I would buy another line of SotG without the DS componant. It can even share the same timer as to not be overpowering. Giving us the choice would be absolutely wonderful.

As has been posted there are so many arguements for both sides and everyone is right in their own way. Grouping/Soloing, the DS is great most times. Raiding it becomes split. I used it a lot in previous encounters where the DS wouldn't create issues, but now in high end things it's almost never alright to cast an MGB DS. In fact I honestly cannot remember the last time I used it and that does seem a terrible waste.

I don't really see this happening of course, but it would be nice.

Fenier
07-26-2006, 07:34 AM
Fenier will just argue that class desirability isn't a Druid problem, it is a motivation issue on the part of the Druid.

Actually thats not true. I will argue however, that public perception of us is not something Sony can change ireguardless of what they do or do not give us. I am happy to see you think you know my thoughts well enough to speak for me however.

Some people simply hate druids for one reason or another, and very little or nothing can change that. Alot of people have it in their heads that we can't heal, even if we do exceptionally well in certain cases. Alot of people are still stuck in the Cleric is the only healer mindset.

That said, I am not postive we have a harder time getting groups then several other classes /shrug.

Apaprently however, I have posted a current 1800 hit hour long parse including accuracry on this forum: http://eq.forums.thedruidsgrove.org/showpost.php?p=204752&postcount=54

There are more on TSW.

In the above parse, the accuaracy rating remains at 50%.

-Fenier

Juniper
07-27-2006, 07:09 PM
/shrug.

I call it based on a different thread, where you said (emphasis mine):

Because you didn't qualify it with which other classes where looking for group during the same timeframe.

All classes, to a given degree have a hard time looking for group depending on the class preferances of those seeking to add more to their group. Some classes have an easier time of it then others, but Clerics seldom stack in a group, where as druids do. This is a direct advantage we have over them.

That said, and while I understand your point - the fact you where looking for group for 10 hours is really simply a reflection of your not wanting a group bad enough to form one rather then Druids have a hard time getting groups and here's my proof.

It may be out of context. However, it's the impression that was given. If I'm mistaken about that, well then. It's your quantitative analysis versus something else, but it's for another thread.

alyn cross
07-28-2006, 07:27 AM
/cackle. point juniper!

Fenier
07-28-2006, 08:11 AM
/cackle. point juniper!

Except Not.

One Druid remaining lfg for 10 hours - is their problem. They could have just as easily formed a group. This is a motovation issue.

People not choosing Druids for groups is a preception problem, this is the issue of the people doing the selection. For alot of people there is anti-druid basis which goes back years its not going to go away just because we get a shiney new spell or AA.

One is fixed by making your own groups or making friends which invite you.

The other is fixed by creating a positive image of what Druids can do via skilled playing.

Your comparing two differant things.

Juniper
07-28-2006, 10:49 AM
They can't 'just as easily form a group' when there is a 'perception issue', like you said.

So if the druid is motivated to form the group the perception issue goes away?

That's what it reads like you are saying.

I am just making sure I understand.

Because if you form your own group, and **** it up ever, even once, then well, we go back to the rhetoric of 'druids can't heal'.

Naeyene
07-28-2006, 11:15 AM
If you form your own group, then in the process you are eliminating the chance to be excluded due to some perception issue. (Even if its only for the duration of that group.)

I am at a complete loss of words on how to fix any perception issue other people have with druids. Since we can't change other people's thoughts. :(

Fenier
07-28-2006, 11:20 AM
If you form your own group, then in the process you are eliminating the chance to be excluded due to some perception issue. (Even if its only for the duration of that group.)

This is exactly what I was refering to.

Juniper
07-28-2006, 11:34 AM
Maybe we can get something, a new ability or spell that other people percieve as 'worth the risk', and give us a shot.

For example, assistance with Endurance regen.

Fenier
07-28-2006, 12:03 PM
Maybe we can get something, a new ability or spell that other people percieve as 'worth the risk', and give us a shot.

For example, assistance with Endurance regen.

Giving us a buff DOES NOT FIX THE ISSUE IF A DRUID IS NOT PRESENT IN THE GROUP

The logic of - well if we got it, we'd get groups, so the issue goes away, is flawed.

Melee need better endurance regen without being dependant on any given class. There is a reason all casters can regen mana without Clairty in the form of self buffs / activated skills. Sure Clairty makes it easier, but we're not reliant on Clairty to regen mana because at the very least, we have our own skills to increase our regen and cut downtime.

Once that happens, if Sony wants to go giving out End Regen buffs, fine whatever - but until that happens, your not actually fixing the problem your compounding multiple issues to make the problem worse.

-Fenier

Juniper
07-28-2006, 12:16 PM
Bleh.

I should have bet money on this thread or something.

alyn cross
07-28-2006, 12:32 PM
juniper haven't you been reading this whole thread? fen doesn't group, he's entirely self reliant... never gets a buff or help from anyone in any way. i've heard he doesn't even raid to get that gear he's got.. that would be depending on a LOT of people...


/cackle

Fenier
07-28-2006, 12:51 PM
juniper haven't you been reading this whole thread? fen doesn't group, he's entirely self reliant... never gets a buff or help from anyone in any way. i've heard he doesn't even raid to get that gear he's got.. that would be depending on a LOT of people...
Sarcasm does not become you.

The groups I do stuff with can be interchangable. I could trade the Paladin for a SK, and the Beastlord for a Shaman and still be able to function. This is class balance. I am not forced to rely on one single class for a given function. This is how the game *should* operate.

When I solo stuff, I am self reliant, I don't ask for buffs and I don't ask for help. I want to prove to myself I can do it on my own. The two are not the same cases. Sometimes I get myself killed. When I win however, the victories are mine and I don't have to be like, oh I need X buffs to do that when I am capable of generating them on my own.

What this entire debate it, and what my position is - is Melee should not be required to seek out ANY class to be able to do something they should do innately.

Buffs don't fix the problem unless the melee are the ones casting them.

Every single person who uses mana aside from Bards can regen mana with selfbuffs or skills. All of them. Clairty helps yes, but even if Clairty didn't exist, there are multiple ways to regen mana without outside help. When you start looking at outside help, you suddenly Have: Steeloak, SA, C6, and Bard Song, not to mention Pefection. Your still not limited to one buff or a single class.

To ask, or expect that melee should be dependant on another class for endurance is foolish. They should, and infact are entilited to a similar system for their limiting factor, endurance. If buffs are created they should be available from several sources. They should not be druid exclusive.

All making the buff Druid only does is compound issues. Its like saying, yes, we understand Druids need help with DPS, and now that help is available, all you need to do is go find a Wizard who can cast this 15 minute buff on you to fix it.

That doesn't actually help us at all. It makes us have to find a wizard to perform as we should in the first place. Its a stupid work around fix. Its like saying Casters don't regen mana fast enough during downtime, so all groups need a Necromancer to twitch the casters.

-Fenier

Vekx
07-28-2006, 02:19 PM
Sarcasm does not become you.

The groups I do stuff with can be interchangable. I could trade the Paladin for a SK, and the Beastlord for a Shaman and still be able to function. This is class balance. I am not forced to rely on one single class for a given function. This is how the game *should* operate.


-Fenier

Doesn't this statement show that you are dependent on...

A tank - sure I'll take any tank
A slower - sure I'll take any slower

But you wouldn't take a druid for either of those. Or for a chanter, mage wiz, Zerker, etc.

Can you group without slowers, tanks, etc? Sure. But you will kill less than half as fast. So if you didn't have a slower, why not a druid that can regen you endurance faster to make up in DPS what you lose in slows.

Fenier
07-28-2006, 02:51 PM
Actually, it doesn't.

I've had:

Paladn, Warrior, Shadow Knight, Rangers, Beastlords, Monks and Zerkers all tank. It depends on the content and their gear levels, but they can all tank.

I'd even go so far as to say I've done the seeker before with 2 Mages, 2 Druids, a Chanter and Cleric.

Optimal? No. Works? Yes.

Slower? Chanter, Bard, Beastlord, Shaman, Ranger w/ Earthcaller, Or as I am doing RIGHT NOW, making Sabreyn tank DSK with a Willsapper.

Optimal? No. Working? Yes.

There is no reason however, a monk should be able to do the DPS they do, Pull, Snare, and use Dragon Fang every pull continously while still being able to fire off their discs with minimal to non exisant downtime due to regen.

None.

Endurance is a balancing factor. You can't directly remove a balancing factor like that without making adjustments to the rest of the game. We saw it happen when they altered Mod Rods prior to PoP.

What needs to happen is Sony allow Melee to regen more endurance without killing the Balance they have created in group and raid content. To do this they need to make changes at the most base level, then and only then make further adjustments in terms of items or spells.

-Fenier

Juniper
07-28-2006, 03:40 PM
The problem is still about averages. When making adjustments the entire game needs to be considered. Yes, Sabby can tank DSK with a slowing weapon, but balance shouldn't be dependent on itemization. Would you be in DSK right now if you didn't have any means to slow?

Fenier
07-28-2006, 03:43 PM
The problem is still about averages. When making adjustments the entire game needs to be considered. Yes, Sabby can tank DSK with a slowing weapon, but balance shouldn't be dependent on itemization. Would you be in DSK right now if you didn't have any means to slow?

Answer: yes.

I soloed my dinner invite by tanking the mobs with a high powered damage shield. One excellant use for Barkspur I have found.

alyn cross
07-28-2006, 09:20 PM
so if you can interchange any melee to tank... why can't a tank interchange any priest for their buffs... oh wait, they currenlty do. so what's an endurance regen buff?

i think you've forgotten that nobody asked for a buff to enhance melee's ability to regen endurance that will FIX OR OVERPOWER the game... just something to augment our current abilities... they can fix whatever you claim is broken on their own time.

oh, and bring the sarcasm on yourself...

"I've had:
Paladn, Warrior, Shadow Knight, Rangers, Beastlords, Monks and Zerkers all tank."

so.... you've had tanks tank? wow, thats better than having them heal you while you tank, eh? i suppose you've had casters nuke before too, right? Wait, wait, you've even had priests in the group healing, right?

/cackle

... edit ... and who's sabby? sounds like you're not soloing. last i checked, druids couldn't use willsapper... granted i did take a break from the game, so stranger things have happened... not that it matters one way or the other, just wondering if you're fenier or sabby.

Lluianae
07-28-2006, 09:39 PM
"but balance shouldn't be dependent on itemization."

Nor should balance be dependant on buffs of other classes.

End regen should not get band-aid fixes, and TSS is adressing the whole downtime and end regen issue, such that merloc is even considering the implementation of Endurance regen on items, which *all* melees who have submitted feedback, want on some new items, but more importantly, they would prefer the whole system to be much better, instead of having a ton of end regen on items and the overal system not overhauled (which is happening right now).

Priests don't need to be their bandaid fix by giving end regen... the shaman aa ward gave end regen in beta- why do you think they pulled it out at the last minute and replaced it with the hp regen version that it is now?

If any spell had to be end regen, it would be the Zing line for all classes who could cast it (not just one), just as it used to, if they wanted it to do so they would have altered it when Stamina became Endurance, but they didn't did they. If it happened, people wouldn't desire you for groups more just because of it, they would just desire your buffs wherever for a donation (or not even that) then leave, lest it was short duration, but even then- people get an enc to CC and slow not specifically for mana regen, people get a healer to heal not specifically for their buffs.

No melee who understands balance wants to be dependant on other casters to alleviate this issue in any way even if it is just a minor boost in regen, so I'm sorry but you're not thinking about them when you claim having end regen will help them, you're using the idea to improve druid groupability (which is quite selfish in the end). When people are educated more about attack debuffs... they would value druids in groups as much as I do- as high as I possibly can. And while I may be a cleric, I play a druid guildy alot too, so please do not play the card that I do not understand the class, not as well as many mains sure, but I understand enough. When perception about attack debuffs and how useful they are shifts, things should get better, if they don't, then EQ is full of ignorant people.

Addendum- one reason why end regen wasn't implemented earlier is the fact that it *can't* work as mana regen, they scale dramatically differently in consumption / frequency / time than mana use does. It needs a suitable fix in the system, not via spells, even if it was a mere boost of 3 end/tick from a buff.

Fenier
07-28-2006, 11:07 PM
... edit ... and who's sabby? sounds like you're not soloing. last i checked, druids couldn't use willsapper... granted i did take a break from the game, so stranger things have happened... not that it matters one way or the other, just wondering if you're fenier or sabby.

Paladin friend who I was helping get her invite.

I soloed mine several months ago.

Juniper
07-29-2006, 12:58 AM
Priests don't need to be their bandaid fix by giving end regen... the shaman aa ward gave end regen in beta- why do you think they pulled it out at the last minute and replaced it with the hp regen version that it is now?


I haven't decided if I agree or not.

I wasn't in beta, because I don't care to waste my time on **** that will just be changed last minute.

Point being, that I think we get wrapped up in numbers and forget averages, and people. The game is person driven more than anything.

Anyway, I'd be interested to see how the system would be fixed.

As long as we don't get another bear pet, I'm happy.

Juniper
07-29-2006, 01:04 AM
Nor should balance be dependant on buffs of other classes.


So you, and your fellow Clerics, should have no problem then with never being twitched again.

Not that I'd expect a Tide Cleric to ask. Ever.

Lluianae
07-29-2006, 01:41 AM
I try to make it happen so that during group/raid fights I never ever need them yes (I'd like to think I'm that rigorously efficient), but that has little to do with the fact I am in raid gear nor being in Tide (unfair card to play~), I was doing this with ~4k buffed mana and max FT at the time years ago doing Tipt Vxed and sewer runs by playing things efficiently when mana really matters, there are always ways to achieve this in raids soloing and grouping. Some clerics used to need twitches before, but I gave some of them tips, I make suitable heal strats the raid encounters we do (and revise them to make them better, more finesse etc), and in the end they don't ask unless there is a cock-up in a long script, where a recovery is needed or we need to take alot longer again. Tide healers are good, clerics druids and shamen alike, its not just clerics, you will rarely see any priest complain about mana.

The buff coment was with respect to groups btw. In raids, you're expected to have every buff you can get from every class, the devs themselves give AE mana just for buffs before raid fight tuning happens. This isn't necessarily the case in group content, else the devs would just give buffs themselves- which they rarely do.

The only times I ask for twitches is when downtime happens and its delaying a raid from engaging. Thats unfair on the other 53 people in the instance, and even then I only need enough to get going, then I'll likely regain during the fight unless it is a seriously draining one, of which there aren't that many tbh. Thats supposedly getting fixed in TSS, so yeah it is something to look forward to, to see how the system is revamped.

Ethernallight
07-31-2006, 12:30 AM
I'd be happy if the only level 75 spell they gave us was a pet on par with a necro pet

Juniper
07-31-2006, 03:06 AM
If you're going to troll, at least ask for Raging Servant.

Lluianae
07-31-2006, 03:07 AM
Raging Bearcub? :p

Dayuna
07-31-2006, 07:28 AM
The topic came up last night on raids: another druid AA pet - Swarm of Snow Bunnies

Fenier
07-31-2006, 07:47 AM
I'd be happy if the only level 75 spell they gave us was a pet on par with a necro pet

Given that we have no history of viable summoned pets at any level range prior to 75, I would venture the chance of us gaining any sort of lasting pet without charming is somewhere between slim, and non-existant. I don't see them rebalancing our class around a strong lasting pet just prior or during a 5 level increase.

Dari
07-31-2006, 09:46 AM
If I wanted to be a pet class, I wouldn't have rolled a druid.
Druids are not a pet class.

Taeyn Kaidyrsi
07-31-2006, 06:12 PM
We have a bunch of worthless charm animal spells, a worthless for anything but very low level farming (but cute) summoned pet, a worthless Dire Charm animal AA, and a marginally worthless AA pet.

So, Druids are a pet class. Or, perhaps more accurately, druids are a "worthless pet" class :wink:

However, all of the above have been or can be useful in some situations. In which case, druids could be considered a ... "situational pet" class.

Or perhaps even a ... "highly situational" pet class.

Juniper
07-31-2006, 09:04 PM
Given that we have no history of viable summoned pets at any level range prior to 75, I would venture the chance of us gaining any sort of lasting pet without charming is somewhere between slim, and non-existant. I don't see them rebalancing our class around a strong lasting pet just prior or during a 5 level increase.

:physics:

dorda
08-07-2006, 10:08 AM
New signature!! =)

Lujayne
08-09-2006, 02:34 AM
An ice based dot could be useful.

Powering up Spirit of the Grove would be nice too, 333pt group heal for the total amount of AA spent getting it seems really low in my opinion, at least doubling the heal amount to like 667 would make it more useful as a MGB heal.

Namira1
08-09-2006, 09:34 AM
Yes, I would be very happy with a DOT upgrade... ice based, sure why not, I'll take it =)

Erikochan
09-22-2006, 03:33 AM
* Group cures - no more single pureblood spams.
* Give us 90% rez. I'm dead serious about this. A paladin is a hybrid (?) class priest and gets this capability, so a shaman and a druid should get the same.
* Single oak being able to overwrite not necessarily an older, but a lesser duration group oak.
* Make Dawnstrike an actual upgrade to Solstice Strike. Not that I personally care much for this, I use cold nukes much more often than fire... but it wasn't a pretty sight to see mages enjoy fickle fire and us druids being fooled with this "seemingly better than Solstice Strike" spell.
* More of a suggestion : Make the casting range on Spore Spiral a bit higher, as it's no longer directional and basically nerfed to bits (but still a very good root we got out of it, I will grant you that).
* Zephyrs for all ports (translocates) as we get them in TSS so might as well draw that line out backwards. I have said nothing if this is already done and I'm walking behind facts :)

tss stuff
* Icefall bear, the one we get with the AA click, should be white (in your opinion right? no, it should just be white :) Icefall bears are white, white bears look way cooler, let them be white). An upgrade to this would be a pack of bears, give us swarmpets basically is what I'm asking too :) But turning them white would already be a great start.
* (general moan) You can't use a 70 or lower spell to cast a 71+ spell for free with GoM1. This is annoying to say the least. Solve this somehow.

Fenier
09-22-2006, 07:53 AM
* Group cures - no more single pureblood spams.

Prathun is still deciding on this, not sure we manged to convince him in beta when he asked for numbers.

* Give us 90% rez. I'm dead serious about this. A paladin is a hybrid (?) class priest and gets this capability, so a shaman and a druid should get the same.

I disagree.

* Zephyrs for all ports (translocates) as we get them in TSS so might as well draw that line out backwards. I have said nothing if this is already done and I'm walking behind facts

There are currently no plans to extend the line at this time, this was mentioned in beta.

I do agree, the bear should be white.

Palarran
09-22-2006, 01:57 PM
Dawnstrike already seems seems to be about a 10% improvement to mana efficiency over Solstice Strike, with comparable dps...

Erikochan
09-23-2006, 07:59 AM
.. The other side to this argument is that druids are more geared towards caster support. Excluding epic, our power in this over shamans is arguable at best, being that malos is unresistable and debuffs all 5 resists.

Our epic isn't really an argument unless you have a nice mage or wiz in group, so I count that as being situational.

And it's 4 resists, not 5 (disease is skipped).

Erikochan
09-23-2006, 08:01 AM
Our mask line will obviously be upgraded, it has been every expansion where they have raised the levels since Velious.


Yes .. obviously ... *snicker* :grin:

(sorry, I just couldn't resist)

Kensmith
09-24-2006, 06:31 AM
Other than the inclusion of the new DoTs that were ganked from going live and a new mask spell the druids are doing just fine imo.

This new expansion should make every single druid out there smile, from hardcore raiders to the most casual of druids this new expansion delivers on so many different levels for a druid.

I dont want to spoil things for the people who havent explored yet but the inclusion of some new animal spells and the distinct lack of summoning mobs make this expansion very nice imo and brings the druids right back where they should be in game terms, again imho.

Kenny

Shernot
10-11-2006, 12:49 PM
I have 4 words to say...Better Boo Boo Bear!

Netura
10-12-2006, 05:28 AM
Yes .. obviously ... *snicker* :grin:

(sorry, I just couldn't resist)
Well played :texla:

/h8!!

Rugrin
10-12-2006, 08:58 AM
Coming from a low level (42) druid, I would like to see a slight ramp in our DoT's and DD's. IMO, our heals are pretty good considering all the other things we bring to the table. Of course I haven't been able to experience healing at a high level so this may need some work too.

As far as rezing, I'm not sure if that is something we deserve but then again, that is my opinion.

If I had a wish list I would like the following:

Since we are the masters of travel, I would like to have a group transport spell that would bring the group to the Druid. This may be a little overpowering but would entice more group invites I would think.

I do wish our SoW spell would be cranked up a bit too to make us a little faster as we level. Heck a high level travel spell, like bards, would be nice as well giving us SoW, Camo, and Lev in one single and group spells.

I do wish our skin line would have a mana regen mod on it but with TSS this may not be as much of an issue.

I would like for charm spells to warn us a few seconds before wearing off but again, this may be a bit overpowering.

Just a few thoughts, Im sure there is more but I'll save that for later ;)

Fenier
10-12-2006, 09:40 AM
I do wish our SoW spell would be cranked up a bit too to make us a little faster as we level. Heck a high level travel spell, like bards, would be nice as well giving us SoW, Camo, and Lev in one single and group spells.

Spirit / Flight of the Eagles + Invis of any sort


I do wish our skin line would have a mana regen mod on it but with TSS this may not be as much of an issue.

Level 59+ have Mana regen attached

Rugrin
10-12-2006, 10:00 AM
Spirit / Flight of the Eagles + Invis of any sort

Yea, I guess what I was hoping for is an all in one spell. Although the importance is low on my list it would be nice to cast one single/group spell for all effects.

Level 59+ have Mana regen attached

I guess I was speaking from more of a lower level perspective where all skin variants scale up on mana regen. Level 59 is a ways off from a casual player such as myself. I know we have the tree illusion spell; neat concept but not very practical IMO.

Like I said, with the new TSS regen rates this may not be as much of an issue as before. I haven't really had time to give it the full test yet.

Fenier
10-12-2006, 10:40 AM
Level 54 Form of the Howler has mana regen also, but doesn't stack with Mask of X line (which you get at 60).

Likewise, clerics don't start their Mana Regen Yaulp / Armor lines till the mid/upper 50s.

malibu66
11-15-2006, 05:02 PM
#1 wish -> Upgraded Skin of Reptile at level 75

Have Lobby corpse summons also perform 96% rez. 95% of the time there is a rez BoT there anyway. Or just do away with the exp penalty altogether (for the good of the game).

Icyfires
04-18-2007, 12:22 PM
* Better DoT spell damage
*Increased DD spell damge but I use an Improved Dmg 3 aug so give or take on this
*Ice DoT/DD line of spells
*Improve the Mask line (I use all the time whether solo or grouped)
*Druid are NOT a pet class I realize this, but give us an upgrade to Nature Walker's Behest. I use the bear a lot personally for solo, group, farming
*Class specific mount