View Full Forums : PoR progression: spoilers bad or no?


Dayuna
05-11-2006, 12:15 PM
This thread was split off http://eq.forums.thedruidsgrove.org/showthread.php?p=200644#post200644 which is the original discussion, the thread wasn't made by the poster but by me (Nimchip) so I could isolate any possible flaming. - Nimchip

People posting spoilers so quickly after stuff is discovered makes me sad panda. It's nice when guilds work to figure stuff out on their own first before resorting to the cheat sheet =/

That aside, there is an order to some of it. And there's one very vital part that Wyre left out.

Beatslayer
05-13-2006, 06:08 AM
its... a.. spoiler.. site...

the "work" is making fight strats, coordinating efforts, gearing up a raidforce, and killing the mob(s) for each encounter. It is *not* poking around every nook and cranny, taking to every npc, trying to find a source for an instance; hidden flag; or a disguised keybit whatever.

If you enjoy holding on to trivial crap like "who gives the instance" or "at what point is suchun needed" by all means, hold the information to yourself. But why else post nothings if not for selfish reasons? Do you really care if someone you never met follows your personal code of honor?

Nimchip
05-13-2006, 08:36 PM
To be honest virtually all high end guilds are in Deathknell now, so I considered the posting to have an adequate timing. Either way, people that have no experience in Demi Plane will not progress for crap in PoR so it really doesn't worries me.

Dayuna
05-14-2006, 05:37 PM
its... a.. spoiler.. site...

the "work" is making fight strats, coordinating efforts, gearing up a raidforce, and killing the mob(s) for each encounter. It is *not* poking around every nook and cranny, taking to every npc, trying to find a source for an instance; hidden flag; or a disguised keybit whatever.

If you enjoy holding on to trivial crap like "who gives the instance" or "at what point is suchun needed" by all means, hold the information to yourself. But why else post nothings if not for selfish reasons? Do you really care if someone you never met follows your personal code of honor?

Do you give a damn about putting effort into figuring out how to progress? Or do you just want to ride the coat-tails of the guilds who've done it? There is still competition in the game, abeit reduced by instancing. I'm sorry if you feel that everything about the game except for the How-To-Beat-X-Mob should be handed to you at the first opportunity. But hey, if you're into that, no doubt the best strat for beating Sullon will be publicly available in a month or two.

This isn't a spoiler site, it's a help site. There's a difference.

Alei
05-15-2006, 12:33 AM
I don't really see the point in posting "nothings" either... especially since you (Dayuna) seem to jump at every opportunity to say what a "sad panda" you are that people are using cheat sheets and not doing things the way you like.

I bet you would use a huge stamp that said CENSORED every time a strat was posted, if you could.

:nono:

Dayuna
05-15-2006, 12:24 PM
I don't really see the point in posting "nothings" either... especially since you (Dayuna) seem to jump at every opportunity to say what a "sad panda" you are that people are using cheat sheets and not doing things the way you like.

I bet you would use a huge stamp that said CENSORED every time a strat was posted, if you could.
For current content, I would consider it. I see it as grossly disrespectful to devalue many guilds' hard work. Racing against other guilds for progression means that the figuring out the progression affords an edge, sometimes minutes, sometimes days. Watching someone post the walkthrough defeats the edge gained. While I wouldn't necessarily post a censored sign over any strat here, I'd like to see the leads gained in figuring out the progression not spoiled until at least the first boss (or preferrably the last one) of the end zone is defeated.

What makes me really sad though, is people who aren't willing to figure stuff out for their own. It's like buying a strategy guide for a game before you ever start playing. I have no qualms with getting that strategy guide, but how much pride can you have if can't say you beat the game on your own? At a bare minimum TRY to beat the game first, then get the strategy guide. Asking questions about things and getting answers is one thing, posting walkthroughs about current content while the current content hasn't been beaten yet is quite another.

Beatslayer
05-15-2006, 06:59 PM
I had a long post about how i feel about your position, hipocracy, cheating, but i know nimchip would have a hay-day with it...

seriously, if you just want to point fingers and call people cheaters, take it elsewhere; especially the "your doing it all wrong, i know how to do it right, but i'd never tell a cheater such as you" bullcrap spew of yours.

hostility edit - nimchip

Alaene
05-15-2006, 10:04 PM
People have different goals and priorities. Some like to trailblaze the content, and do everything the hard way. Some like to see the content as quick as they can, regardless of the means taken to get there. This game was designed as one where information sharing was key (I remember reading a quote to that extent, back in the ooold days, probably as part of "the Vision"). People are going to share information - it's going to happen.

Some people don't like that information being shared - you see old threads even at TDG with people arguing about the same subject in the context of epics, etc. Bottom line is, it's all personal. If you want to share, feel free, noone can stop you. If you don't, keep the info to yourself, sure,... but it's not fair to critique those whose choose to share.

The one disclaimer I'll give is this - people who sign their own name to discoveries, that aren't in fact their own, are pretty low. Not that this has happened here, of course.

Nimchip
05-16-2006, 11:55 AM
Reminder: There is low moderation in this board, but the rules are still in effect.

Alei
05-16-2006, 04:40 PM
The stamp thing was kind of a joke, but really...
Any time this subject comes up just cut/paste, Dayuna. Oh, or maybe put it in your sig! :smile:

Fenier
05-16-2006, 05:19 PM
As someone who wrote guides to where most of our PoR spells are located / obtained I disagree.

I see no purpose at all to restricting information which only serves to empower the druid class a whole. I mean, for my work with Attack Debuffs I could have figured it out, and kept it to myself, but really what does that accomplish for our class? Nothing.

In terms of end zones..

I mean you can generate a check list, most people still won't be able to pull it off. It takes a tremondous amount of time for a guild to flag all its members for ToB.

Most of the raids listed from Wyte's walkthrough are low respawn or located within Instances. This isn't ST Keying all over again, there is very little reason to withhold information other then bragging rights.

Dayuna
05-16-2006, 09:31 PM
In regards to the druid class stuff, I have no issue with spoilers. This is a druid class site and such information is meant to be spread here. Progression is for guilds. Spoilers and such posted on private areas of guild sites regarding progression for the guild are also not something I care about. There are many players from many guilds here. There's a time and place for everything. In my opinion, that place is not here on these boards, and the time is not until there is no advantage in the grand scheme of things to read a spoiler.

Fenier
05-16-2006, 09:50 PM
In all fairness, look at it this way.

A: You work for 2 months and may come up empty handed trying to figure it out.

or

B: You know what to do, but not how to do it, so any work over those 2 months moves you closer toward your goal.

Most people would chose B. Not everyone has the time for A and some people outright don't care. That said, if I chose to work on something I would like to think it is going to pay off in the end. I mean I hailed and tracked in a ton of zones for the 1.5 and I can't say it was fun in the least - but it was one of those things that had to be done.

-Fenier

Dayuna
05-17-2006, 12:39 AM
Think back to during the epic 1.5 quest. Many druids were helping to figure it out, but there were undoubtedly a few who leeched information. Should the players who leeched information and did not share have been among the first to recieve their 1.5?

I'm not saying that every druid who did not help doesn't deserve to get their epic 1.5, I'm saying they don't deserve to be among the first to do so.

Fenlayen
05-17-2006, 01:27 AM
Knowing what to do isn't the same as actually being able to doing it :cool:

So I don't see a problem, but then again some of my guild might disagree :texla:

Qwenya
05-17-2006, 02:43 PM
Knowing what to do isn't the same as actually being able to doing it :cool:

So I don't see a problem, but then again some of my guild might disagree :texla:
I agree. There is really nothing wrong, IMO, with a general checklist as the post was in nudging folks into a general direction of what mobs need to be killed. Anyone who has killed them will tell you that knowing you need to kill a mob in this expansion and actually being able to kill them are 2 different things. I can say all day we had a few "misses" on Sullon last night but still managed a clean win, and unless you have killed her, you have no idea what I mean. You can check people's news who have killed her, looking for clues, and you will see her corpse in different rooms even.

I am all for people figuring strats out. I used to be more of a purist (read:naive, perhaps) than I am now. I would never read boards, spoilers, anything. Then I find out someone in my guild was and they were being used by the guild.

Frankly, I find all this condescension by some against the thread naive at best and hypocritical at worst. All the high end guilds seem to have people who talk cross guild with other high end guilds and exchange information. Even if it is just a hint.

I do know all the guilds screaming for OMM to be made easier....you might as well give up when it comes to Razorthorn. That zone makes OMM look like a walk in the park on a sunny day.

Woodelfous
05-17-2006, 10:01 PM
All posts should be regulated by the government for non spoiler quality!!

Little Rhunt
05-18-2006, 10:20 AM
The bottom line is fun factor. Does anyone really want to spend a bunch of time in EQ trying to figure out progression? One look at a PoP progression chart makes me cringe on behalf of the souls who had to do it without a roadmap.
Having a guideline to help you with the journey - and for a lucky few, the destination, makes the game more enjoyable.

Fanra
05-18-2006, 03:24 PM
I don't understand the 'problem'.

If you don't like spoilers, don't read them.

If you feel it ruins the 'purity' of the game to use them, don't.

Since EQ isn't a game where you must compete against another guild (i.e. cockblocking is mostly gone now with instancing), who cares if another guild uses a spoiler.

If you managed to figure out how to progress all on your own, congratulations. The fact that guild B might use spoilers doesn't diminish your feat in any way.

Oh, no, guild B is going around saying they beat mob X when they used a spoiler while you didn't, boo hoo.

You know Bill Gates cheated when he got that billion dollars so now my billion dollars is worthless....

WiLdOnE786
05-18-2006, 04:14 PM
It is your guilds/your choice if you want help. If you do, read the posts. If you don't, don't read the posts. Same thing for information. If you share it, it most likely will be read... Once again, something that is YOUR choice.

Someone said earlier " knowing the strat, and being able to kill the mob are two different matters". I agree with that.

Tenielle
05-19-2006, 09:55 AM
not every guild is a pioneer. the guild I'm in is intentionally 6 months lagging from cutting edge (we just broke into dp two weeks ago). figuring out the strats for and beating new encounters while keeping your force strong with farming takes enormous amounts of time. the guild I'm in finds a happy medium, we raid 5 days a week for 6 hours. we're not cutting edge because most of the people I raid with don't have the time to be.

without the strats garnered from others, our setup would not be successful with the time we invest.

Alei
05-19-2006, 11:19 AM
I think its grossly disrespectful to try to tell a mass of people what they can't/shouldn't post or do with their own game time. If there's some kind of understanding as to why and there's no problem with it, then fine. If I was so inclined to go read a spoiler for whatever, who are you (a complete stranger on a totally different server) to tell me I can't? You think I should stop progressing and enjoying my play time, because you want to keep a competitive spirit in the game? Because you want to feel uber and better than other people? Because you want to hang onto your bragging rights? Because you say it's wrong? Sorry, I don't think so.

It's not a habit of mine to read spoilers. I don't mind learning as I go, but if I want to read a spoiler or a guide for whatever (spells, missions, progression, etc.) then I will. As much as I like playing EQ, I'm not going to spend hours/days/months stuck in one spot on something for the benefit of someone else if I don't have to or feel like it.

Nimchip
05-19-2006, 01:51 PM
Hmm why is this thread going from strat spoilers to the usual casual vs uber debate?

Alei
05-19-2006, 06:11 PM
If that is in reference to my post in any way, I am not a "casual" player. I'm in a raiding guild as well. This thread is turning into casual vs. uber? If you say so...:rolleyes: Why do you ask anyway? This is by far not the first time a thread goes off topic. So, why care now?

Golthine Gettinwood
05-19-2006, 09:05 PM
Here's my 2 cp. EQ is a game. Knowing the start, and being able to BEAT the mob are 2 seperate things. I don't mind wiping repeatedly trying to beat a mob, but for me personally it's frustrating as hell to try to figure out the proper scripting and everything else for an event. And as for the whole competition factor, like I said, EQ is a game. I'm sure if you go out somewhere, there probably won't be too many people outside of the geek world who are very impressed with ANY of the accomplishments in game. The whole "c-blocking" of guilds died after PoP. Let it stay dead.

Nimchip
05-20-2006, 03:20 AM
If that is in reference to my post in any way, I am not a "casual" player. I'm in a raiding guild as well. This thread is turning into casual vs. uber? If you say so...:rolleyes: Why do you ask anyway? This is by far not the first time a thread goes off topic. So, why care now?

Why are you so defensive? I was merely asking a question. I don't know the background of every single druid in these boards. Just chill.

Alei
05-20-2006, 04:21 AM
I wasn't defensive, lol. Can I merely ask a question without being defensive? You don't need to know the background of any Druid. Just click on anything in their sig and it's probably a link (if there is one) to their magelo. A little glance at the HPs and Mana and voila... raiding druid or casual or whatever. Took me all of 5 seconds to see you were a raider. Whatever though :p

Fenier
05-20-2006, 08:28 AM
Because reading Assent in his sig wasn't information enough?

This is kinda childish no?

-Fenier

Alei
05-20-2006, 05:26 PM
I don't know who Assent is and I don't concern myself with guilds that aren't on my server. Sorry, lol.

Nimchip
05-20-2006, 06:06 PM
I wasn't defensive, lol. Can I merely ask a question without being defensive? You don't need to know the background of any Druid. Just click on anything in their sig and it's probably a link (if there is one) to their magelo. A little glance at the HPs and Mana and voila... raiding druid or casual or whatever. Took me all of 5 seconds to see you were a raider. Whatever though :p

You are defensive. You are attempting to turn my posts around and replying with little snide remarks. If you got a problem you can PM me about it, otherwise at least keep your flaming on topic.

Alei
05-20-2006, 06:40 PM
I didn't have a problem before, but now I do. And snide? Hardly.

Dayuna
05-20-2006, 07:22 PM
Perhaps you might understand better when your guild gets involved in the serverwide competition. There was one instance just this expansion where a somewhat significant serverwide first was decided by 30 seconds. I don't care if you read the spoiler, if you choose to skip that part of the game that's your deal. My issue is with the posting of it. Knowing what mobs to kill and the order of that does have an impact on things. Imagine if that guild that finished 30 seconds too late had known they needed to go after the mob a day earlier than they did. Imagine you race cars professionally and are equally skilled as every other driver. Your pit crew discovers a fuel formula that gives your car better mileage and boosts the speed too. Imagine another crew discovers most of it as well. You start using your new formula, and the other crew tells every other crew out there what the formula is and they start using it as well. Would not you and your crew be rather pissed off that your advantage had been nullified?

I can sit here and browbeat the same points with you all day, but in the end it won't make a difference since you are as unwilling to change your viewpoint as I am.

Fenier
05-20-2006, 08:13 PM
The example is poor because clearly the better driver would still win reguardless of all else being equal.

Dayuna
05-21-2006, 12:12 AM
Example fixed for clarity.

Netura
05-21-2006, 01:38 AM
Its naive to think the 'uberguilds' don't share any information amongst themselves, and selfish to believe only they deserve it.

Fenier
05-21-2006, 10:41 AM
There is a differance in winning a serverwide first where everyone knows it has to be done, and winning one because your guild happened to get lucky and find out you needed to kill the mob first.

The former, everyone has the same information, and thus it comes down to the skill of the guild to beat any other guilds.

The second, comes down to the hording of information, there really isn't any skill there because your denying an equal oppertunity for any competiors to beat you.

A contest isn't fair less the rules make it as fair as possiable. The fact that it seems your position is - I want to have an advantage over other people in reguards to what has to be done, when that has *zero* impact on a guilds ability to kill a mob is sad and would only come into play if the guild your racing against raids eariler then your guild (but it could be argued that due to their ability to mobilze faster they have more skill in that aspect.)

Hence, when everything is as equal as you can make it, the better guild will be the first one to win. Nothing changes that.

-Fenier

Dayuna
05-21-2006, 01:54 PM
Its naive to think the 'uberguilds' don't share any information amongst themselves, and selfish to believe only they deserve it.
I don't believe 'uberguilds' tell each other what mobs need to be killed and in what order. The players who deserve the information are the ones willing to work to get it. The selfish ones are the ones who believe it is their right to have the information without having to try to figure it out.

A contest isn't fair less the rules make it as fair as possiable. The fact that it seems your position is - I want to have an advantage over other people in reguards to what has to be done, when that has *zero* impact on a guilds ability to kill a mob is sad and would only come into play if the guild your racing against raids eariler then your guild (but it could be argued that due to their ability to mobilze faster they have more skill in that aspect.)
It isn't just luck in finding which ones to kill, there is a lot of work involved too. Every guild starts out with the same blank slate of progression to work with. There are ones who might get a little lucky, but far more likely is that the guilds who do the finding and completing tasks, hailing npcs, locating the raid targets. Time is bought through that work. Posting of the progression eliminates that. The rules of the contest are very simple, you start from scratch and you go. Learning the encounters and accomplishing them does take time, but figuring out the progression takes time as well. There is an advantage given by the hard work of individual guilds, and that is why I dislike the posting of progression until the race is won.

Qwenya
05-21-2006, 03:12 PM
that is why I dislike the posting of progression until the race is won.

In the example that started all this, that race had been won so your argument is nullified. At that time 7 guilds were in Deathknell.

Kinyenya
05-21-2006, 03:58 PM
I originally wasnt going to post on this because well i was saddened that this made it to Unkept Druids.

My entire reason for posting the topic of PoR progression in the first place was for personal reasons and not for entire guild reasons. I needed more info on items that I was working on to get access to certain planes in Plane of Magic etc. And I was curious as to if there were other GoDs we would be killing there. I was in Arcstone the day the expansion was released and had been already working on quests. IT wasnt very pretty at the time on Saryrn Server expecially in Relic, lot of wandering Red see invis mobs etc. Heck i even got yelled at for being late to a raid cause i was in Arcstone and raid was waiting on me to show up while I was doing a turn in for Port Spells.

Everyone here has good logic and thought but we have a community of druids here hence why it is called Druid's Grove. It is a collection of resources for all druids to use of all levels. Whether it be writeups, questions or walkthroughs and yes even unkept druid forum.

IMO it honestly doesnt matter what strats or guides you use guild wise because each guild will refine and adjust that strat to its own individual style. We are all facing a huge challenge we have tons of expansions, lots of quests tons of items and we have no basic understanding of them when expansions come out except by trial and error and the help of others. Yes, some will finish content first because

1.) They had information others didnt have
2.) Trial and Error
3.) Pure luck
4.) All of the above.

I feel we must be supportive of each other and help each other. It should not matter what guild you are in. For those against PoR strats ask yourself this when you were working on your Epic 1.5 or 2.0 did you at any point in time refer to the walkthrough or get information from anyone else. (exceptions being those who created the walkthrough hehe). Its the same point and general concept.

To further this, Fenier posted a walkthrough regarding ToB access and Skylance Missions. I used this as a general guide for my group that day we went in followed what was said but we had to refine the strat for our group we still wiped a couple of times even with the strat and it still took us 7 hours to finish all three. Hence why I posted an addendum to Fenier's walkthrough. His information was invaluable to me and my group but i felt more info was needed on stuff we found out by trial and error. And i posted this to help other groups in case they ran into the same problems we did.

cenoxx
05-23-2006, 03:30 AM
It isn't just luck in finding which ones to kill, there is a lot of work involved too. Every guild starts out with the same blank slate of progression to work with. There are ones who might get a little lucky, but far more likely is that the guilds who do the finding and completing tasks, hailing npcs, locating the raid targets

Puh-lease. Who do you think beta tests the expansions - joe public ? joe small-guild ? There's a post on the eq main boards about them using uber guilds because they can organise and run through encounters faster and more times and the Devs have a known baseline of skill/gear to tune against.

L33T Beta Infoz 4tw.

Cen.

ToKu
05-23-2006, 09:12 AM
I have np with spoilers myself, every guild handles encounters differently so its not like you most spoilers do much but save time. I mean come on are ego's that fragile that you have to horde information to feel superior? My guild has known the Daosheen basics, has that helped us beat him? No, its helped us get to a certain point (bloody 10% is still throwing us off).

Again, if you are saying spoilers to save time are a bad thing, your a petty person. Unless you can say you have had NO help at all and learned everything PoR had to offer w/o other groupmates who knew, or any foresight, you have no leg to stand on criticizing others for doing the same.

Lupa
05-23-2006, 09:24 AM
Yes the uber guilds beta test events. However, they are not told how to progress to get to the events. So Dayuna's quote is correct.

Every guild starts out with the same blank slate of progression to work with.

On a side note Assent did not beta test, and we were the first guild in DK. We were also the first to win the Enforcers event (first one in DK). I am not trying to showoff; my point is beta didn't help other guilds break into DK first etc.

As any high end raider knows, you lose a lot of sleep when an expasion comes out. You stay up night after night trying to find that one lead that will help progress your guild. (thanks devestation MM =p) I am always happy when that is all over. :)

Fenier
05-23-2006, 12:45 PM
Heh, I disagree.

I was in PoR Beta. It was made clear early on in ToB for example, which of the raids where for progression.

While this does not apply to Assent. Alot of information as to how hard certain encounters where and such was made clear to the testers.

-Fenier

Lupa
05-23-2006, 12:56 PM
It was made clear early on in ToB for example, which of the raids where for progression.

-Fenier

If ppl don't know to go kill mobs with capital letters, then they are dumb. =p I don't really call that help on progression. If a guild was told exactly what was needed for say SZ tower, that would be helping towards progression. I might be wrong, but I think everyone had to figure that out.

Shamarra
05-26-2006, 10:25 AM
I don't know who Assent is and I don't concern myself with guilds that aren't on my server. Sorry, lol.
Apparently you do m'dear or you wouldn't be so defensive.. I agree with your arguement.. to each their own..its not a case of uber vs. casual. Our server has many druids of both casual and raiding guilds.
Spoilers are for those who enjoy them and make the game less frusterating. I like them and the fact they make playtime a bit easier for me to enjoy, so for me that is all that matters.
To each their own.

Alei
05-26-2006, 03:33 PM
Apparently I do what? Concern myself with other guilds not on my server? No. I clicked on Nimchip's magelo to prove a point. I didn't even bother with the Assent link. Plus, even if I was defensive a little bit, it had nothing to do with his guild.

Shamarra
05-26-2006, 10:42 PM
I clicked on Nimchip's magelo to prove a point.
Mkay.. an that would have been?? I find the whole thread interesting in the context of a variety of opinions on one topic, server related egocentrism aside, we do all share the commonality that we all play druids, the main point of spoilers being either a bonus or a detriment is unequivocally up to the end user to decide.

Alei
05-27-2006, 02:13 AM
Go back and read it, lol. It's not hard to pick up.

stratofortress
05-27-2006, 11:21 AM
I liked the post - checklists are good. There was no super-secret info there. Checklists learned from a bunch of trial and error hailing and doing text scripts with NPCs and such are a pain in the ass. I for one like having a checklist. My guild still has to beat the mobs and do the content. Frankly most of the lore-related type stuff received from doing all the goofy NPC talking goes over my head anyway. I just wanna kill stuff.

People having to re-do hard raids cause they didn't have some item from some lame NPC in East Freeport... or things like getting no credit cause turn-ins are done when one person was zoning are all lame... checklists go a long way in avoiding those issues.

Shamarra
05-31-2006, 09:30 AM
I like the checklists too. For people who are into figuring it out on their own, I say more power to 'em, but for me I like checklists. No one is right.. no one is wrong but as long as its fun its cool.
:texla:

dorda
06-13-2006, 09:18 AM
Seems to me that if everyone would follow Dayuna code ..
EQ would have never become the place it is and would become a VERY empty place very soon.

(and it has quite a bit already ... in my opinion not because the game is old but because progression for non-raiding players has been closed for a very long time, resulting in MANY soloers and groupers abandoning the game for more casual-friendly MMORPG's)

Its a game... the downline is that people play if it is fun, not work.

For some, spending countless hours to solve a bit of the riddle is rewarding... i bet only if they try to be the first to solve though.
For the less advanced guilds or soloers like me having a checklist is mandatory.

I stay in the game only if i feel that i can achieve something within my constraints .. else why should i play a game which is MORE frustrating than real life??? =)

Juniper
06-13-2006, 12:44 PM
If ppl don't know to go kill mobs with capital letters, then they are dumb.

Quoted for truth!

Aurora_Cazic
06-13-2006, 01:23 PM
So in a few months time can we just copy and paste this thread for the next expansion?

Lorilei
07-18-2006, 02:12 PM
Perhaps you might understand better when your guild gets involved in the serverwide competition.

Serverwide competitions are only real if all of the guilds involved have an equal start point. When you've got a guild with people who did the beta testing for an expansion vs a guild with people who did not, then you do not have an equal start point.

Don't try to kid yourself. Beta testers get exposure to and interection with storylines, content, events, and devs. Yes, they have to work hard to figure things out, but they get help along the way. So when the expansion is finally released, they start out a step ahead. It's nearly impossible to compete equally with someone who helped refine the course.

Dayuna
07-18-2006, 03:01 PM
Don't try to kid yourself. Beta testers get exposure to and interection with storylines, content, events, and devs. Yes, they have to work hard to figure things out, but they get help along the way. So when the expansion is finally released, they start out a step ahead. It's nearly impossible to compete equally with someone who helped refine the course.
Guilds that beta test only test encounters, they do not know the progression path or even how to get the encounters they test. There are also beta guilds formed by the devs to facilitate forming raids and filling out numbers on the raids that do not quite have enough. Any player in beta may see the same content and aquire the same advantage as these guilds you speak of.

Fenlayen
07-19-2006, 01:20 AM
Guilds that beta test only test encounters, they do not know the progression path or even how to get the encounters they test. There are also beta guilds formed by the devs to facilitate forming raids and filling out numbers on the raids that do not quite have enough. Any player in beta may see the same content and aquire the same advantage as these guilds you speak of.


Pfft Dayuna we all know it's all dev and uber guild plan to keep the casual down !

All uber guilds meet up once a month to sacrifice small animals and watch a powerpoint presantaion about how our plans for world domination are going.

Lorilei
07-19-2006, 05:46 AM
Doesn't matter much to me, but show me a guild in the top serverwide "competition" which does NOT have people getting info from beta, and I'll be surprised. That's the point I'm making.

Dayuna
07-19-2006, 11:06 AM
Pfft Dayuna we all know it's all dev and uber guild plan to keep the casual down !

All uber guilds meet up once a month to sacrifice small animals and watch a powerpoint presantaion about how our plans for world domination are going.
Speaking of which, do you remember who was supposed to bring the chips this month? I can't for the life of me remember if it was me or not =/

Doesn't matter much to me, but show me a guild in the top serverwide "competition" which does NOT have people getting info from beta, and I'll be surprised. That's the point I'm making.
I don't believe Assent had any beta testing time as a guild. The opportunities they had to get info from beta are the same as every other player in every other guild in the game, so how is that not fair?

Lorilei
07-19-2006, 02:40 PM
Cheers to Assent, then.

As to fair or unfair, it's not a question of that. There's information out there that people have gotten OUTSIDE of normal play of the released expansions. Using this information allows them to progress faster in the expansions after the release date. One guild progresses faster than they would otherwise because of beta information and another guild progresses faster than they would otherwise because of information posted on a board. Both groups are getting information OUTSIDE of normal work on released expansions. It's silly to get outside information one way, then get upset that others are getting outside information another way.

Lorilei
07-19-2006, 05:21 PM
It should also be noted that:

There's nothing that's been posted on here which is likely to interfere with many serverwide firsts at this point.

Today's hints and helps to guilds lower in the progression = tomorrow's well geared, flagged, and experienced recruits.

Dayuna
07-19-2006, 05:31 PM
What's your point then? The advantage of seeing the encounters before they are released is something that aybody can get in on, so it isn't really that big of an advantage. During the rush to get through Deathknell most recently, it was not the beta guilds that were beating events fastest. Tide and Assent beat the garg event before it was nerfed, neither guild had major (if any) beta experience. Assent was the first to complete the 2nd and 3rd event. Township Rebellion completed the Ayonae Ro event first and though they helped beta test, they did not work on that event as far as I know. The guilds that win first are the ones that put in the time, effort, and skill to win.

There's nothing that's been posted on here which is likely to interfere with many serverwide firsts at this point.

Today's hints and helps to guilds lower in the progression = tomorrow's well geared, flagged, and experienced recruits.
Aye, and at this point I have no issue with the posting of whatever progression tips and guides are going pop up.