View Full Forums : Warriors Seek to nerf critical power of Reptile


Fenier
07-13-2006, 08:22 PM
In their weekly question to the devs located here:

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/showpost.php?p=224168&postcount=6

The Warrior Rep goes on to say the following:

Reptile skin has an effectiveness disparity based on the heal AA's of the target of the spell. Any class with a heal AA can crit reptile skin, although crit heal AA's we do not believe were ever intended to affect a spell which is cast upon you, rather a spell which you cast. This has led to a disparity in effectiveness in the tanking world. Can we get a confirmation that this will be addressed so that Reptile Skin heals everyone the same?

This directly following their previous question, where they now have Prathun re-evaling Ward of Tunare and Decript Skin as being overpowered.

Netura
07-13-2006, 08:53 PM
In their weekly question to the devs located here:

http://www.thesteelwarrior.org/forum/showpost.php?p=224168&postcount=6

The Warrior Rep goes on to say the following:

Reptile skin has an effectiveness disparity based on the heal AA's of the target of the spell. Any class with a heal AA can crit reptile skin, although crit heal AA's we do not believe were ever intended to affect a spell which is cast upon you, rather a spell which you cast. This has led to a disparity in effectiveness in the tanking world. Can we get a confirmation that this will be addressed so that Reptile Skin heals everyone the same?

This directly following their previous question, where they now have Prathun re-evaling Ward of Tunare and Decript Skin as being overpowered.
WTG FENIER!!! once again, you take someone elses post, and attempt to twist it as an assault on the druid class.

Take a deep breath.

Take a step back.

Put on your glasses.

Please point to me where exactly Frodlin said that he wants the critting ability removed? All he said, was that he believes it was not an intended effect, and that he wishes it would heal everyone evenly...which in all honesty, it should. There is zero reason that a spell I cast should be more effective on hybrids and those with crit heal aa's, than anyone else.

No where does Frodlin say that "Warriors Seek to nerf critical power of Reptile ". He just wants to know if it will be made so it effects everyone equally...which is a fair request.

Fenier
07-13-2006, 09:13 PM
http://eqforums.station.sony.com/eq/board/message?board.id=warriorbalance&message.id=22765#M22765

Several warriors instead suggested an AA line for them to critical healing effects similar to that granted by Knights.

Frodin reponsed with:

In this case, I vastly prefer the nerf

He doesn't want critcal AAs for warriors, - which would also address the imbalance, he wants our spell adjusted, because it requires Zero work on his part.

Now, you could claim I am reading the entire thing wrong, however Since the warrior in question clearly stated he wants the spell nerfed (instead of say, an increase to his classes power to even the field between Knights) I am pretty sure there is only one way to take that.

Netura
07-13-2006, 09:52 PM
In this case, I vastly prefer the nerf
As would I. There is zero reason that a warrior should have to spend aa's to have a HEALING BASED UTILITY SPELL effect them in the same way that a paladin or sk should.

Yes, I know that pallies and SK's require crit heal aa's to gain crit's from reptile, but those are aa's that a pally and SK would get anyways. It is not only selfish, but rediculously stupid, to think that warriors should have to get crit heal aa's just to have the same benefit that other classes gain from reptile.

And you are correct, when linking to the other article, he calls for a preference of a nerf, over having to get aa's specifically for a single spell.

He doesn't want critcal AAs for warriors, - which would also address the imbalance, he wants our spell adjusted, because it requires Zero work on his part.

Again, incorrect. He doesn't want critical HEAL AA's (on a straight melee class). Lets ponder why. Oh yea. It makes no sense.

Now, you could claim I am reading the entire thing wrong, however Since the warrior in question clearly stated he wants the spell nerfed (instead of say, an increase to his classes power to even the field between Knights) I am pretty sure there is only one way to take that.
Naw, you aren't reading the whole thing wrong. However you are selectively interpreting other's opinions and statements based entirely on your bias towards the druid class, and not on balance as a whole.

Fenier
07-14-2006, 07:28 AM
Personally I think the best option is having Reptile Critical off our AA set, rather then removing its power to critical.

Nearly every other Healing line between the 3 classes has at least 2 AA lines that work on it.

There are 3 Exceptions, Our Renewal Line, and the Shaman Equiv at level 58.

I see no reason to add yet another of our healing spells - esp one which is already highly restrictive - to that list. There are other ways around this.

So no, I don't agree that the spell needs criticals removed from it. I also don't think its targeted at us, since whatever change happens to Reptile, will probably also apply to Ward of Tunare - which they are attempting to get nerfed already (ref previous weekly question).

My linking of the post here was to make other people aware of it, so perhaps a compermise can be reached, the current trend of Warriors questions to nerfing anything they consider inbalancing rubs me the wrong way however.

-Fenier

Lluianae
07-14-2006, 07:54 AM
I suggested an idea to them too (I'm not a warrior, yet :D) which is where he replied "I vastly prefer to nerf" when I asked why he didn't want a beneficial fix instead of nerfing.

If they made it function based off the person who cast it- which could be codeable if they use the healing boon crit code and apply it to reptile and change the % chance to that of healing gift %, WoT would still crit for paladins so Frodlin can never fully get his wish of "true tank balance" /cough.

But to nerf it to not crit at all would be a detriment to the druid class, Fenier has a right to show bias, because reptile is one of the only 'passive' tools that adds any value in the degree of heal efficiency outside of their instant normal heals. I'm no druid, but I for sure don't want you nerfed. Frodlin has shown considerable hate and envy over WoT... this isn't false.

P.s. Hopefully they will see sense now Fenier :)

Marpedod
07-14-2006, 08:47 AM
To make it heal based off our AAs, would it not count as a heal coming from us agro-wise at that point?

Well, let's see....you're a warrior, you aren't magically attuned anywhere near as well as a paladin or a SK...why would you expect to be able to use the magic given to you equally? Enjoy the fact that you crit more for melee and please leave our Reptile alone

Lluianae
07-14-2006, 08:52 AM
I think the aggro reason is why its based off the person with the buff in the first place.

Boon affects hots which is just buff aggro for the caster, but nothing more for the caster or the person with the hot. If your gift aa's affected it, would probably then say "You have healed xxxx for 600, 1200" instead of "Xxxx's wounds close" alone.

Fenier
07-14-2006, 09:13 AM
I don't see why on a Reptile Trigger code could not be written to dertmine a critical heal based on X, where X is the number in percentage taken from the casting Druid.

Now I'm not an expert programmer by any means but this really doesn't sound a complex fix, just an extra step to add between determing of a proc occurs, and the application of the healing total from that proc if the previous check is yes.

-Fenier

Dindail
07-14-2006, 09:22 AM
Reptile was already a "shakey" spell to start with. It helps, but in content where you attain the spell, its value is debatable. Its excellent for soloing massive ammounts of mobs that hit for small amounts, but once the hits rise up to a much larger level it becomes more of a "buffer zone" than anything you can rely on. This is not a bad thing, its just one of those things where you ask yourself in groups and whatnot if its really worth it for the 750 mana cost.

It was also a great spell till they gave it to Paladins who just happened to get the greatest use from our spell to start, and now they all insist on using their own version. The downside to it is we lost something that was actually unique to our class once again.

To make the spell not crit at all would send it to the rather large useless section of my spellbook. It also really should use the casters aa's and not the targets, that was stupid coding to start with.

Dari
07-14-2006, 10:27 AM
I always have this spell memmed. And although I would love to see it crit off MY healing AAs, if it messes with aggro no thank you. I find reptile extremely useful in lots of content, allowing a buffer to get the mob slowed while I'm MH the tank. I also like the aggro producing effect it has on the tank it's cast on. I was displeased when pallies got it, because it was nice to have something UNIQUE. But since my partner is an SK it doesn't affect me personally too greatly. As a druid in general, I feel it would have been nice to let us keep something unique to druids for a change. I use reptile all the time, however if they nerf it to not crit, they better decrease the mana cost substantially or this is going to sit in my spellbook.

Eldrynn
07-14-2006, 06:21 PM
F U C K them!!! Yes, I agree the crits should be based off OUR AA's, not the receiving party..... man what a hum-dinger!

Fanra
07-15-2006, 10:07 AM
Sigh.

I sure hope we don't get Reptile nerfed. Due to the high mana cost, it already is marginal.

Frankly, it should work on the caster's AAs, not the recipient's.

I love being a druid but I get tired of seeing other classes able to heal without ever running out of mana (clerics CH) or dps forever (melee) while we can't.

The LAST thing I would ever do is call for anyone to be nerfed. Warriors should ask for it to crit off the caster's AAs, not call for a nerf.

I don't want clerics nerfed or melee nerfed even though they can do what we can't.

Juniper
07-17-2006, 01:03 AM
Now, you could claim I am reading the entire thing wrong, however Since the warrior in question clearly stated he wants the spell nerfed (instead of say, an increase to his classes power to even the field between Knights) I am pretty sure there is only one way to take that.

This may also be because it's easier to argue someone else is overpowered than it is to argue to increase your own.

Naeyene
07-17-2006, 01:47 PM
I play both, a Paladin and a Druid.

I use both, WoT and Reptile. I wouldn't mind seeing Reptile proc off of the AA's of person who is casting it. As for WoT, I wouldn't mind it having a recast timer (However, I am sure Frod is gonna push for so much nerfing that it will be another spell we never bother to mem due to its uselessness.)

--Nae / Sabby

Woodelfous
07-17-2006, 03:38 PM
AAANDDD Woodelfous moves in for the pwnage of the warior class advisor, ZING!
What a newb, that guy can't tell his ass from a hole in the ground.

Erikochan
08-07-2006, 12:43 PM
Sigh.

I sure hope we don't get Reptile nerfed. Due to the high mana cost, it already is marginal.


.. And Dawnstrike's probably a great spell to you ? :)

No seriously, with GoM AA maxed this makes for a great buffer spell that adds stability to a group.. especially when adds are being AE taunted is where this baby truely shines. I realise GoM is an external and unreliable helping tool that makes this spell work well but every self-respecting druid has mana preservation AAs like SCM and GoM as soon as he can get them.

WiLdOnE786
08-07-2006, 03:46 PM
AAANDDD Woodelfous moves in for the pwnage of the warior class advisor, ZING!
Oh noes!

Sylvanastri
08-08-2006, 09:04 AM
Sure, I'd be all for having a seperate line for having Reptile exceptional heals... as long as they would tie in our CH line with that too :)

Amped
08-11-2006, 10:02 AM
As you guys know, my main is a SK. 11.3 K hps unbuffed, 620 aa. My second most played toon is a druid with just under 9 K mana and 270 aa. Not uber by some of your standards, but allows me to do pretty much whatever i want.

That having been said, I think warriors should just suck up the fact that they can't crit heal from SoTR. It takes sooo many aas to GET Sks to the point wher ethey can crit heal due to so many other aas ... hps, defensives, etc.... and with the same gear warriors get more hps / ac anywho. They do more melee damage, tank better, and are generally wanted more in guilds. Stop crying and stop asking for nerfs on other classes. I undersgtand WHY warriors have the advantages they do and that's ok. They can keep them. They NEED them. And i need what I have, on the druid AND on the SK.

Kamion
08-11-2006, 10:14 AM
They gave warriors AA's back in pop that let them do crit damage from procs, perhaps they should just give warriors crit heal aa's. Warriors needing crit heals is a relitivly new problem, since heal potions (those can crit, ya?) and reptile came out not too long ago.

Dari
08-11-2006, 10:44 AM
Warriors should stick to melee crits. That's what they do best.

Minadin
08-11-2006, 10:48 AM
What if they just gave warriors a class-only AA that was very low cost (like 1-2 points) to give them the same amount of crit heals from defensive / offensive procs as the hybrid classes get? It would make sense to charge the warriors a lot less since they wouldn't get the benefit from casted spells as well. I also don't like the idea of nerfing the spell, nor do I want them to do anything that would shift the aggro to the caster. I currently use it as more of an aggro tool than anything else. Works wonders in the Velks part of epic 2.0 when cast on your ranger hydra. I bought him 3 levels of crit heal AA's specifically because of that.

Well, that and the time all our healers died on an Efficiency trial and we had to keep the MT up with a beastlord and ranger.

Minadin
08-28-2006, 01:19 AM
Since a couple people have asked about it:

[Sun May 28 23:48:58 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:49:04 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:49:45 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:49:50 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1624 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:50:28 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:51:11 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:51:18 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 416 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:52:09 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:52:21 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:52:33 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:52:47 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:52:55 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:53:01 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:53:15 2006] You have healed Antilles for 2926 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:53:41 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:53:46 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:53:52 2006] You have healed Antilles for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:54:15 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:54:32 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:56:16 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:56:24 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:56:39 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:56:52 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:57:06 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:57:16 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:57:21 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:58:05 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:58:10 2006] You have healed Antilles for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:58:50 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:58:55 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Sun May 28 23:59:24 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Mon May 29 00:00:42 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Mon May 29 00:00:47 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Mon May 29 00:01:32 2006] Skanda tells the group, 'I can't beleive we pulled that off'
[Mon May 29 00:01:34 2006] Fenring tells the guild, 'Holy ****ing ****, both healers died and we beat Efficency'
[Mon May 29 00:01:42 2006] You tell your party, 'Kilg and Min were just trying to make it challenging'
[Mon May 29 00:01:42 2006] Your mind expands beyond the bounds of space and time.
[Mon May 29 00:01:44 2006] Fenring tells the guild, 'Both healers dead on wave 2'
[Mon May 29 00:01:45 2006] Crystyna tells the guild, 'grats'
[Mon May 29 00:01:50 2006] Gwareth tells the guild, 'that's very inefficient :P'
[Mon May 29 00:01:57 2006] Zley tells the guild, 'gratz'
[Mon May 29 00:02:03 2006] Gwareth tells the guild, 'grats though hehe'
[Mon May 29 00:02:13 2006] Aliane tells the guild, 'wewt grats'
[Mon May 29 00:02:43 2006] Skanda tells the guild, 'Let's hear it for ranger/beastlord heals'
[Mon May 29 00:02:43 2006] Your mind expands beyond the bounds of space and time.
[Mon May 29 00:02:51 2006] Gwareth tells the guild, 'here here'
[Mon May 29 00:02:56 2006] Shargmike tells the guild, 'woot'
[Mon May 29 00:02:57 2006] You tell your party, 'so how do we get Min and Kilg out of here'
[Mon May 29 00:03:36 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Mon May 29 00:03:42 2006] You have healed Deurgeran for 1044 points of damage.
[Mon May 29 00:04:16 2006] Zyzik tells the guild, 'rangj0r bst heals are the only way to go'

The worst part was running my nekkid druid ass back (with bard help thank god) to zone in to the trial to get the AA before the instance closed. We had started out with a shaman (Kilg) and me as healers. Both died on wave 2. So no rezzers.

Nimchip
09-07-2006, 09:52 PM
whos the new war class rep anyway?

Netura
09-07-2006, 11:03 PM
Still Frodlin to my knowledge.

Nimchip
09-11-2006, 10:53 AM
Still Frodlin to my knowledge.


rofl