I am wondering if Druids will need new aggro controling powers or improved defense to accompany the healing it seems we may soon be doing?

I have seen nothing specific from Verant that indicates this aspect is going to be tested. I assume that their testing will have to include this as when the testing Druids fire off these spells they may or may not drop like flies.

Is it possible they will deal with the aggro by the spell itself? I am thinking that the act of healing a certain number of hitpoints has aggro associated with it, not just the act of casting the spell.

Any number crunchers out there that have any ideas? Or that know what kind of percent difference there are in average and or high end priest AC, HP, dodge, defense, etc? In addtion to the spells available, for instance Clerics have Atone but do they need to/ able to use it? They have the DA and DB spells that are top notch.

I guess what I am saying is that it would be a pathetic joke if Verant released these changes to laugh over a bunch of Druid corpses.

It's been my experience that the best way to mitigate aggro is to heal before the tank gets "low health aggro"... if you plan your heals to land when the tank is at 30%, you'll avoid the most common type of aggro most people have encountered.

As someone else mentioned here recently, mobs tend towards finishing off an PC whose health is low. And as another person mentioned in a different thread, druids are no stranger to aggro; I'd wager the aggro generated from our Ro debuffs are very similar to that of a 2-3k heal. What do you do when a mob decides to show you some lovin' because you knocked its FR/ATK/AC down a few notches? ;)

~Firemynd

Already bought me a Shiny Brass Idol, and planning to buy one each for my mules :p .

I'd argue that root should be our defense, but since we can't modify runspeed on many things these days, I don't think that argument would make any sense.

It does sort of seem a little bit off to say that druids are healers like clerics but not as good. We won't give them spells that are as effective, nor will we let them have the same ac or give them da. Perhaps this is the intent, but it is useful to remember.

CH agro cap is at around 2500 I believe. The ratio is something like 1 per 2 points healed (again, not sure). The Druid CH will garner a lot less agro then a Cleric CH. And uhm, you just got a BIG bunch of upgrades, be happy with what you got for once!


Belkram

CH agro cap is at around 2500 I believe. The ratio is something like 1 per 2 points healed (again, not sure). The Druid CH will garner a lot less agro then a Cleric CH. And uhm, you just got a BIG bunch of upgrades, be happy with what you got for once!

This is a druid discussion board ... that statement is just a rude crappile. You don't like the discussion go back to the hole you crawled out of ... you have something of substance to contribute, fine. you want to display your ignorant self righteous attitude go to the boards where the other idiots are.

thankyou please drive through

Selldor

Selldor let me clarify for you. CH has capped agro. Its capped at 2500 or so, its been changed several times. On normal heal spells its a 2 to 1 or so ratio, again Verant has played with it several times and it keeps moving.

Cleric CH = 2500 agro
Druid (test) Ch = 1450 agro if those numbers or numbers close to them hold true.

So yes you wont garner as much agro as a cleric CH.

I do believe that this would be a substantive contribution to the conversation. Oh and Selldor just because you dont like what Im saying doesnt mean Im not making a viable contribution to the conversation. Your "contribution" to the conversation was combative and pretty much just a random flame. I dont do drive bys, Ill stand and trade converse if you want. And by converse Im saying prove me wrong or make your point, not make silly personal attacks.


Belkram Marrwolf

Belkram, I don't think he was saying anything about the validity of your information. The part in question was the "be happy with what you got, for once!" line. That comment is very condescending.

Ok, Ill bite. Why should Druids get a defense upgrade over and above what other priests get when the spell they are getting contributes LESS agro then the one its being copied from?

Dont say DA/DB. They are last resorts; Root/park is FAR and away favored. If you have to DA or DB and you dont have a backup healer you are probably going to get smooshed anyway due to low health agro after it goes off. And you get left behind on evacs, you cant be healed, and you cant cast anything yourself.

Anyways the best way to control the agro is to rely on groupmates that build agro and keep building it. I dont find a lot of problems with healing agro right now, except when my timing is bad.


Belkram

Actually Blekram, Gimli Fan is just wondering if druids will need this. His question probably stems for the fact that Druids already get huge agro to start. For example, Currently on live servers druids can easily get agro away from the current incarnation of SK's. I don't know if it's this way after the new SK changes on Test. Druids can usually gain agro on mobs without even casting a single damage spell. Larger heals "may" increase that.

Personally, I don't think it's going to make much of a difference for agro. Chain casting heals have rarely been a problem for me, so, a well timed 3K heal shouldn't be much difference.

On a slighly related note. While most people believe that druids are the easiest class to play, There is a lot more to playing a druid than what most people think. Agro is just one of the big reason why. Druids need to control agro more than any other caster. Since druid spells often have more than one effect, they are some of the highest agro producers in the game. Ask any ranger about Flame Lick. (our level one spell) It just gets worse from there. Unlike other casters, Druids have no way to lessen agro. Clerics have DA and SCS(AA), Wizards have Brain Bite and SCS. Enchanters have a host of tools, Mages, Necro's have pets to taunt. I believe All intel casters get SCS as well. Druids (and Shaman I believe) have no real way to do the same. Living within the agro range as a druid can be pretty challanging.

I have always believed that a druid's high aggro was the biggest trade-off for their versatility. I don't believe druid's should get aggro control powers; as a druid's strengths never lay in pacification (excepting harmony), but in the powers of escape and forbearance. Druids should, IMO, rely upon tanks and aggro-mitigating classes in this instance. If the aggro renders this 3k heal impractical, however, I am positive that aggro will be toned down to a respectable, yet irksome, level.

Again. IMO.

Clerics dont get Spell Casting Subtlety. I wish we did but combined with CH it was deemed "overpowering", just like everything else.

I explained why DA is a last resort. Root parking, timing and solid groupmates that will help with agro issues will be your best bet to avoiding the stomp the healer effect. Just like Clerics and Shamans.

Dont forget there are a host of classes that can flat pull agro off you and do it quickly. Shadowknight, Warrior, Wizard, Paladin and Bards all have solid tools to draw agro to themselves usually in under 10 seconds with a few casts, some taunts or the proper combo of both.

Agro in places aside from Cazic Thule and Ssreaszha Temple just isnt a big deal, nothing hits hard enough to really demolish you in the timeframe its going to take a tank to get a mob back to hitting them.

Raids....well thats different and I would assume Visage for the druid healers will be the way to go.


Belkram

DA would be great for soloing. If I cast DA in a group, I cant cast spells and the tank or enchanter may be dead when I get back to him. I would gladly trade DA for evac. As a cleric I would never cast DA on myself and leave my party without heals til it wears off.

I'll trade you evac for the ability to fly:p

Super druid! Up, Up, and AWAY!

Heh heh

let me clarify. I am not asking for evac, just stating that DA has limited uses in group setting.

Look its a bird, its a plane, Its very low sodium

To keep in roleplay, the defensive ability druids should have would be better dodge. You are wearing the lightest armor so therefore should be able to dodge better.

I don't see druids getting a min-ch as an entryway towards getting increased defensive skills or invulnerability options.

Any kind of unforeseen aggro issues should be dealt with as a consequence of this new healing spell.

This is right up there with clerics griping for increased defense with their new melee abilities, because they think they just became MT's.

Not quite. Clerics are asking for defensive and offensive Melee increases because the apparent "solution" to the cleric offensive black hole was to make us melee in groups as well as solo.

We want the defensive upgrades to be able to stand with a mob for longer than 25 seconds before a CH is needed; we want the offensive increases to HIT the mob more than 4 times for 40 points in that same time frame.


Belkram

True. In a group even if I did decide to melee (doubtful) I would not want to be main tank. If I found myself getting aggro, I would rapidly quit attacking and wait for tank to taunt it off and then go sit down and hope it ignored me.

Without defensive add for soloing though, the result would be one dead cleric. unless they gave us a better root so we could root and nuke solo.

Brum, a small tip. If you want to cast spells before DA wears off so can you click the effect off.

I don't know of any cleric who uses Atone to cope with healing aggro.

DA doesn't shed aggro directly. It makes you invulnerable and gives your tank a couple of extra chances to succeed at a taunt, but it doesn't shed aggro of itself. Most clerics have it memmed 24/7 but don't use it because we hate to see it greyed out.

Thinking clerics do root mobs next to their tank to help with aggro control. Having said that, cleric roots have no DoT component (we get the same root spell lines as an enchanter) which means that they are resisted less and they build less aggro than druid roots. A friend of mine who has both 60 cleric and 60 druid says that the cleric root is more reliable than druid root in all sorts of ways... I have no direct experience of that.

I've posted elsewhere, but I'll say it again here:- if you're main healer in an xp group, you need to ditch some of that +wis/+mana gear in favour of +ac/+hp. Sometimes you get aggro because your tank isn't paying attention. Sometimes you start the 10-second cast time heal, and then you see the four adds coming in, but you have to finish the heal because your tank will die if you don't.

Elysian armour is your friend !