View Full Forums : Our roots are broken

10-20-2006, 04:37 PM
Before TSS went live, I could root a mob and nuke him dead. With TSS, root breaks after every single nuke. At first I thought it was because we got a new stronger root AA that they lowered effectiveness of prior rooting ability. I have since purchased the new root AA, but there still is no increased effectiveness. 1 nuke = 1 broken root every single time.

10-20-2006, 04:43 PM
I haven't noticed any change at all. Mine seems to be working the same as before.

10-20-2006, 04:48 PM
Not noticed any difference.

10-20-2006, 04:54 PM
No differance here, what are you rooting?

10-20-2006, 09:31 PM
I have been experiencing what I consider to be an increased amount of lame duration roots. Though I've never attempted to root a mob and nuke it from 100% to dead, I have routinely root parked a mob, clicked epic, and cooked it 4-5 times quickly before epic fades. In the past, the vast majority of attempts, root would hold through those 4-5 nukes no problem.

Since TSS, a few quick nukes without a broken root has become a rare exception. Spiders in Icefall yellow to 75, or light blue darkfells in Steppes, makes no difference I can tell. As it is, its nearly impossible to get five shots of Equinox off on a static mob before epic fades. With a broken root, I've barely got time to get off only four factoring in the need to kite some or stand up and channel through the beatdown. A root that holds through the few seconds duration of epic effect is cause for celebration anymore.

Being the in-game description of the TSS root reads as if it checks against melee damage only, its definitely way down the bottom of the TSS to-buy list. Chances are real good, if I'm ok to stand in melee range of a rooted mob, there's no damn reason to have it rooted in the first place.

Edit to clarify:

Spore Spiral is the root I primarily use.

My experiences have most often been with mobs conning yellow to 75, the type of stuff I solo for AAxp. I can lay on the DoTs all day and very seldom even get an early root break on a tick-check so I can't possibly fathom its just a coincidence break while I happen to be casting a nuke. Icefall and Direwind are primary solo grounds for me, if it cons yellow chances are I've sat a spell and collected some AAs off the mob type. Will try to make better note of inconsistencies I find from this point.

10-20-2006, 09:36 PM
Which root? ;/

Other people can't verify stuff unless people are clear about what they are using on which mobs ;/

10-20-2006, 10:44 PM
I use savage roots and solo the Roots, it's working great for me.

10-23-2006, 02:41 PM
Are you sure you noticed it before or just after you bought the new root AA? I ground to 75 duoing with an enchanter in nest instances, and she was pretty much chain-nuking my rooted mobs during the last half of thier lives.

I bought the new root AA in the middle of a 5 hr grind killing nest drakes, and buying it broke my previous root AAs. It went from her nuke breaking root rarely enough, prob 1 in 8, that I didn't bother rerooting unless it broke, to having to time a root cast with her nuke, so root hit after her nuke did, because root was breaking 3/4 the time.

And I reported this, but afaik, no one has done anything to fix it.

10-23-2006, 05:17 PM
Not sure why this is in Unkempt Druids, but anyhow I share the same experiences as Tobynn. Either since TSS or since I got Petrified Roots AA (not much time inbetween those events) my root breaks have gone up drastically. I primarly use Spore Spiral, and when root dotting I used to nuke some to speed up the process, use epic etc. I no longer do so as 90% of the nukes will end up breaking root now. Same content as Tobynn also, Direwind, Icefall and Sunderock mostly.

And I think the topic of this thread is off, I don't think our roots are broken, but I think Enhanced Root and/or Viscid Root are, either in TSS content, or cause of Petrified Roots.


Did a short test, but enough to show there's a problem I hope.

Mobs: A Guardian of Marr, Halls of Honor
Spells: Spore Spiral, Savage Roots, Solstice Strike

Simple pulled mobs with Serpent Vines, then would root with either Spore Spiral or Savage Roots. Nuke with Solstice Strike, re-apply root if broken.

Solstice Strike broke Spore Spiral 86% of the time (43 out of 50)
Solstice Strike broke Savage Roots 86% of the time (43 out of 50)

I have Enhanced Root, Viscid Roots and Petrified Roots AAs.

So it's not limited to TSS spells, nor TSS content, most likely it is Petrified Roots, I do not have access to a druid without that AA, so can't test that.

Golthine Gettinwood
10-23-2006, 07:25 PM
I only have enhanced, and have noticed a big increase in root breaking (using Savage Roots, I don't have Spore Spiral) I have also noticed it doesn't last half as long as it used to also, on TSS mobs.

10-23-2006, 07:28 PM
That would more likely be due to the higher MR on most TSS mobs.

10-24-2006, 08:14 AM
watch the nice sky of a class sunset =)

10-24-2006, 09:01 AM
Roots break faster and SoW is slower.

Anyways, what the hell is up with our new root AA? It only allows our roots to stick better through being meleed upon? When I CC a mob with root and the groups engage it, I WANT the melee to break the root as fast as possible. Most useless AA since Act of Valor.

10-24-2006, 10:59 AM
When i root CC there is ALWAYS someone running to hack the mob, with me screaming to back off and not to touch it. They usually back off

1) exactly in the instant they broke root
2) exactly when they damaged the mob enough to start summoning (me)

this lead to death of root CC (and druid too).

The aa is a stupid attempt to revive it. In my opinion for root to work as CC again

================================================== ====
Root must make mob INVULNERABLE to player/pet melee attacks as long as it lasts , or at least for a few seconds
================================================== ====

This avoids problem #2 if applied early enough. It also adresses problem #1 because when the usual melee goes there to offtank he will realize soon enough (<1 minute hopefully) that he is doing nothing and go back to tank main mob.

In this case only way to break root would be through nukes.

Problem is root for soloing purposes and root for CC purposes have totally different needs.
When solo/charmkiting i want the pet to attack a rooted mob so if charm breaks i have to deal with 1 rooted, 1 snared mob.
When rootrotting some druid (i dont, i dot only, but thats my style) want to nuke the rooted mob without breaking.

Tricky, would require a root like we had till now for soloing and a different one (spore spiral revamp??) for CC.
Dont know how this is gonna work in a raid environment

10-25-2006, 09:39 AM
I definately don't want a root that makes the mob invulnerable to attack.

Sometimes you use a root to get agro off of yourself or another caster and onto a melee, through proximity agro, who then can damage the mob and build up their agro on it. Sometimes you use root to keep a turned (snared) mob pissed off so it kills itself on your damage shield. Making the mob invulnerable during the spell duration definately defeats those tactics.

I usually root, and then snare under root, for CC. If I am playing with an enchanter, I snare mezzed mobs. People run in and break roots, just like people run in and break mezzes, but that is a training problem. You just have to use small words to explain to your group that, "If we get an add, I will be rooting them for CC, so back off and don't touch it... if you get excited and break root cause you attack the wrong mob, and he kills me, I hope you got your heals covered."

What I do swear is happening sometimes is that spells which have no damage component sometimes break root. I have seen shaman cast slows on mobs and my root break, and paladins cast non damage stuns and my root break. I call it coincidence, but it happens often enough that it makes me wonder.

10-25-2006, 10:28 AM
Spent maybe four hours in Kod'Taz yesterday trying to collecting mountain wheat, was killing solo near Yxxta zoneline ... ratuk, mastruq, ixt, ukun, trusik .. every mob cons light blue to 75. There was not a single occassion where a an epic'd mob rooted with spore spiral stayed rooted for four consectutive casts of Equinox. Not once. I collected 2 AA's killing light blues. I didn't keep a count, but to be sure there's a sizeable quantity of light blues within 2 AA. Zero resists of any kind on any spells cast.

Also took another druid with me to Stoneroot Falls just to experiment. We killed an assortment of orcs, shills, witherans all very much light blues. I did all of the rooting, we alternated mobs on the cooking. My nukes, his nukes, made no difference, zero mobs stayed rooted through four blasts.

10-25-2006, 11:25 AM
I tested on light &dork blue, to 75, elementals in Sunder at the geyser. I'm not sure on elemental resists but they resisted root a bit, was using clicky pants. But they broke root often and allways broke root on 1st nuke.

The light and dark blue, to 75, drakes at the geyser are a bit less resistant to the root than the elementals. Break root sometimes. I could nuke 2-3 times in most cases without root break.

I do have the new root AA. I thought it would help since this root breaking was a pain. I see no difference. I don't have spiral spore.

10-27-2006, 07:25 AM
I don´t have any of the root aa´s, and I only use Savage roots.

Soloing yellow con mobs in DW (carrionmancers, which btw are lovely xp) I could land root fine (maybe 1 resist in 5) and when rooted regularly nuke 5+ times with Equinox before root breaks. Obviously some exceptions.

With light blue mobs in Steppes (gnoll archers etc) I got bored nuking with no root breaks.....

Glad I never bought that aa :)

10-29-2006, 11:27 AM
With new root AA, level 75 druid, in Sunderock, drakes near geyser - lt blue con. Using clickie root pants.

Root broke on 1st nuke about 95+% of the time. If not 1st time then always the 2nd nuke broke it.

Need refund on this AA for sure. Root held better before I bought it.

10-30-2006, 03:28 PM
Usless AA any how.

10-30-2006, 04:12 PM
Usless AA any how.

I used to agree 100%, but with the new fast mana regen, I'd be tempted to buy this line (if it worked).

I haven't tested, but I am certain that root/nuke/med to full (with a non-breaking root) would be more xp efficient than root/dot/med, even with a few nukes thrown in to the latter.

10-31-2006, 09:39 AM
I used to agree 100%, but with the new fast mana regen, I'd be tempted to buy this line (if it worked).

I haven't tested, but I am certain that root/nuke/med to full (with a non-breaking root) would be more xp efficient than root/dot/med, even with a few nukes thrown in to the latter.

This is exactly what I was banking on. However, the roots were not holding very well before I purchased this AA. So I tried it, and now roots break 100% more often after purchasing this AA.

10-31-2006, 03:58 PM
How is this useful with the new med state?

If a mob has aggro on you then you are in battle. The other night I did Samples of Corruption and gained aggro on a charmed PC. I had to FD on the SK untill i got the fotten msg before i could get med state back again. So unless you root near the succor point and succor real quick and med up it's usless. DoTs are still better exp since you can keep several mobs DoTed at once.

This AA is rather annoying due to the fact that if you root a mob away from the group for CC reasons you have to use dispell to get it in camp. It's was much easier to just nuke the mob real quick and break root, not to mention the extra spell gem taken up by dispell, and a chance of dispelling slow as well. I suppose you could just not buy it... but then you wouldn't be max AA's :P

10-31-2006, 06:05 PM
The new med state makes it efficient to nuke because of the speed of medding up between mobs, not during. If you dot a mob to death, it might eat 30% of your mana and take 3 mins. You can med to full in one min and be ready to go again. If you burn the mob down with nukes, it might eat 50% of your mana and take 90 seconds. Med to full in another 90, making a 3 min turnaround per mob, rather than 4 if you dotted.

If you dot many mobs at once, you may still be more efficient with this route... but you're not taking advantage of the new med state anywhere near as often. Personally, I get annoyed dotting more than 1 mob because root tends to break too often, and I lose to many dot ticks to ccing.

I'd be a lot more concerned about this broken root issue if I had a wizard like nuke that cost big mana but dealt huge damage. As it is, the xp efficiency gain for druids for root/nuke vs. root/dot is not likely to be massive enough to fuss over.

I also agree that it can be a situational pain (specifically nuking a rooted mob to bring it to camp). It would be nice to see a toggle for this reason (just like a toggle for SCS etc would also be nice).

Having said that... the stupid AA should still work properly.

11-07-2006, 09:46 AM
I went back to WoS to the murk caves to test the Root AA.

Using the clicky root pants as usual. I first tried using Wintewrs Flame. Root broke on 1st nuke every time. Same for Equinox. Same for Solstice Strike. !st nuke every time over 50 minutes.

12-01-2006, 08:10 AM
I actually got a reply from Nodyin-Dev regarding this being broken, so maybe there's a chance for it to be fixed now. Although it pretty much confirmed the point of my post, that being that regardless of it being /bugged and reported on the sony board, it had not previously made it onto any actual fix list.

Scirocco, did you ever bring it up to them?

12-05-2006, 09:07 AM
From 12/5 Patch Message:

Corrected an issue with the AA - Petrified Roots that was incorrectly increasing the chance for an NPC to break root. This ability should now correctly reduce the chance an NPC has to break root.

I wasn't nuts after all! :texla:

12-05-2006, 09:15 AM
From 12/5 Patch Message:

I wasn't nuts after all! :texla:

damn, now all the fizzle paranoia people are gonna think there's logic to their suspicions.

12-05-2006, 10:01 AM
damn, now all the fizzle paranoia people are gonna think there's logic to their suspicions.

The fizzle monsters are out to get us all, and make us fizzle all the time /nod...hehe.

12-18-2006, 11:17 AM
Can anyone confirm that the patch really fixed it?

12-18-2006, 12:42 PM
Can anyone confirm that the patch really fixed it?

I'm no number cruncher but...

I did go to WoS to the murk caves where I did some testing AFTER I purchased the new root AA to see how it worked compared to when I used to hunt there before TSS. What I found then was that root broke over 99% of the time.

After the patch I again went to WoS to the murk caves and root held about 90-95% of the time.

I'm ok with the results.

12-18-2006, 08:07 PM
CC'd one of the undead in Direwind yesterday with Savage Roots. Tank went out to start beating on it, wanted me to let him know when the root broke so he could bring it back to camp. Me and a mage blasting away, never did break. I guess you could call it "blowing it in place".

Golthine Gettinwood
12-18-2006, 10:32 PM
I guess you could call it "blowing it in place"

I am soo not going to touch that.

12-22-2006, 05:30 PM
Well I have an update. I'm not sure what might have happened since the patch but I was at first ok with the changes. But after 3 more tests on 3 different nights in WoS again, in the Murk caves I'm seeing some problems.

The root IS breaking more than what I noticed at first. So my initial estimate that it was holding 95% of the time has now been lowered to about 60%.

But more importantly the duration of the root without any DD has dropped. When I was level 70 and using the root clickie pants on these Murks it rarely wore off when not using any DD. After the initial TSS relaese and the purchase by me of the new root AA I didn't notice any change in this. (the issue was that once you purchased the new root AA root actually broke MORE often when using DD spells).

So to summ it up.... the root breaking due to DD AFTER purchasing the new root AA is about 60% after the last patch. And the duration of the root has dropped quite a bit since the last patch.

I'd like to see some feed back from those in other zones. Mainly the new TSS zones.

I'm thinking that TSS was built as a fall back for when/if EQ starts to get to a very low player base. They can just start removing some of the older content since you can now go from 1 75 all within TSS zones. And new content will prolly follow this example. With the new /con vs exp gained system you have to know its all messed up. Unless you are only in TSS. At level 75 go to TSS and kill LT Blue con mob. Then go to WoS and do the same. You will get the same amount of exp but it is about 3 times easier to kill the WoS mob. So there is a disparity there introduced with the new system. They must know this. They must not care.

So if you dont need to complete the new quests or spells then you'd get exp faster in older zones, as long as you can find the level /con mobs you want to kill. Because now a boss mob in old-zone-x will only become less exp as you advance (like if level caps get increased again). In the old system they could keep boss mobs at least more of a challenge and more exp. Now the new system isnt bad but in order to make older content useful (or a place anyone will ever go to) all old content will need to be revamped which is unlikely.

I know many get to skip much content nowdays. I even missed most of PoP. I went thru PoTime but skipped most of the rest, Air, water, Earth, etc. But if you are level 75 - or possibly 80 or 85 soon - those zones will all become greenies and lt blues.

So - do you want to start EQ, level to 75, and start you end game at DoD and up? or where ever you need the last round of spells? then why even keep the rest of the content around? (and yes I realize they would have to make sure needed trade skill drops are avail in the newer zones, etc. Epic 1.0 is prolly a moot point but could also be changed to use only newer zones)

12-22-2006, 06:55 PM
Quoted Vekx, posted a new thread in Unkempt for the TSS discussion. I didn't want to get his points about TSS buried in this thread.

12-22-2006, 07:38 PM
Yea - I prolly should have kept that last part in a different post, lol. I'm on my way to read it elsewhere.

04-11-2007, 02:42 PM

I was actually just looking into that AA line. We fixed the AAs listed here a few months ago - the data was wrong and was actually making it MORE LIKELY for your root to break if you bought more of these AAs. That's fixed now and the NPCs chance to break root gets smaller and smaller as you purchase the AAs. The AAs modify the base percentage chance the NPC has to break root, not specifically any type of damage.
IE - the discriptions in the window are incorrect.

04-11-2007, 04:22 PM
Wait, so I'm reading that the aa line makes root last longer regardless of whether a mob is being nuked?

Talk about different ballgame.