View Full Forums : Spells for New Expansion


Fenier
05-12-2007, 12:47 PM
I am going to go out on a limb and assume Prathun is going to hard cap us on spells for SoF. Last time we wound up with 27 spells, and 9 Teleports after our regens were exchanged and Nature's Blazing Wrath was added.

Using this as a baseline, I'd like to try to work out a list of 30 spells we'd like to see in SoF so that whoever makes beta can provide this list and if they like try to push for changes which conform to it.

I am also going to take a guess that spells we got in TBS are likely not going to see upgrades in SoF being as how it's only been six months.

-Fenier

Amped
05-12-2007, 01:09 PM
Self mana regen buff

Combined ac, fire, atk debuff = to all the ones we have now that stack, so that we only need ONE debuff to be loaded. Short cast time too. make it high mana cost to balance it.

Wolf form with atk buff that stacks with other atk buffs. Make it group. If people (casters, for example) don't want it, they can block it.

Upgraded FOE - with almost everyone having run speed 5 (or 8, in the case of monks), I think we should be able to dole out a faster run speed buff. Shammies should get a better Bih'Li to even it out.

Group mammoth - even if it does not get the % changed, group is still better than single target.

Upgrade to Dawnstrike - this spell was great but now useless and we got no replacement. But give us a better chance for the nuke boost.

Upgraded Skin of the reptile. One of the best spells we ever got, IMHO. If level cap is going to 80, mobs are going to continue to become tougher than ever. Sure, it will trivialize some older stuff, but ....umm... so what? (I never did understand this argument, as levels and gear and aas tend to do this anyway)

Port to bind spells for group members. Single target and group. Wishful thinking, maybe but hey...

More Zephyrs. This should be fought for. It doesn't make sense from a RP standpoint that we can only zephyr to new spots. Especially since it seems the new expansion will be taking folks back to old places like Ak'anon.

Probably no new ideas here, but this is what i would like to see.

Fenier
05-12-2007, 01:36 PM
Mask Upgrade - +2 mana regen since they skipped us in TSS
Adren Surge Upgrade
Group Direwild
Group DS
NBW Upgrade
RC Upgrade
Direwood Guard Upgrade
EB Upgrade
Disjunction Upgrade (Combo Hand + Corana debuff)
Sunsorch upgrgade
PBAE Upgrade
Swarm DoT Upgrade
Coat Upgrade
Winter's Flame Upgrade
Direwild Upgrade
Icefall breath Upgrade
PL Upgrade
Single DS upgrade
Charm upgrade
Immolation Upgrade
Rain Upgrade
Stun Upgrade
Harmony Upgrade
Mammoths UpgradeThat's 24.

I could see upgrading Skin to Vines, if it gained something aside from a minor increase to fire damage. If that is all it's getting, I say don't bother.

I would like to see a Reptile upgrade

I would like to see an upgrade to Dawnstrike

I would like a new Sunder spell.

Group Poi/Dis cure

That's 29. I am leaving 1 slot for whatever gimmick style spell he has planned for us, because I am betting he has one.

I didn't ask for upgrades to any of our corruption resists / cures because I don't think they are likely at this point in time, and we lost 3 spell slots to them last time.

I didnt ask for a upgrade to Second Life, because I don't see they increasing the chances of it firing enough to make it worthwhile.

AtU, Fernspur, and Lunar Light were added in TBS. At most I can see a upgrade to Lunar Light at 80, but I don't think it's likely I would rather see Lunar Light upgraded to where it was a day before launch.

Regens have not been brought in line with content, so I left those two spells out.

The spell list I am suggesting covers all of our main strengths in former spell lines, with a slight basis to damage dealing powers in the form of Nomral Nukes, Speciality Nukes, PBAE, Rain, Dots.

Windfyre
05-13-2007, 11:18 PM
How about an SOE upgrade already... what its almost 30 levels at level 80? Our run speed needs an upgrade big time.. Id even take a self only high end run speed buff. I dont think we should get a skin buff this time around.. isnt it every 10 levels? Also id like a new line of buffs.. something new.. fun... perhaps a booboo upgrade? one that can actually solo an orc pawn!

Fenier
05-13-2007, 11:35 PM
Level cap increases have what Prathun terms - Bread and Butter or 'core' spells. We get certain spell line upgrades whenever they raise the cap, and Skin is one of those lines, so we'll probly be getting it unless they decide not to upgrade anyone's buffs - which I don't see them doing.

Fruid
05-14-2007, 08:12 AM
Reptile upgrade + no more gate spells for druids - ever.

Tenielle
05-14-2007, 12:26 PM
an ice dot

oakdad
05-14-2007, 04:30 PM
How about a new Rain AOE spell.

Amped
05-14-2007, 05:01 PM
Definately second an ice dot. That would be great. Especially if it was on par with our fire dots instead of being 3rd place after magic, as I think they would be inclined to do.

Riverwinter
05-14-2007, 06:33 PM
/agree Fenier

Oh... and I like how you think, Amped. You can sleep with my sister. :thumbsup:

Laurelleii
05-14-2007, 07:27 PM
We are definitely overdue for a Reptile upgrade. I think we should push hard for one. Especially with the longer expansion cycle.

Our mask definitely needs to be +2 since we got the last one cut from the list.

I am also among those who think it's long overdue for an upgrade to FoE.

Fenier
05-14-2007, 07:49 PM
How about a new Rain AOE spell.

In addition to the one we're likely to get anyway? or?

Amped
05-14-2007, 08:39 PM
/agree Fenier

Oh... and I like how you think, Amped. You can sleep with my sister. :thumbsup:

Name?? Number ??

Micahle
05-14-2007, 11:21 PM
Would like the new rain to be on a different timer, or change the timers around a bit so i don't have to use one from PoP if i want to cast 2 back to back :P

palamin
05-15-2007, 05:05 AM
How about an upgrade from karana's rage?

Oppositesnake
05-15-2007, 06:20 AM
I scored the spells that you think they will replace Fenier in terms of their usefulness to me personally, my playstyle is predominantly high end raiding, with limited grouping and soloing (either root/rot or tank/nuke).

10 is a use all the time in raid, group & solo
0 is a currently never use

Mask Upgrade (+2 mana regen) 10
Adren Surge Upgrade 5
Group Direwild 10
Group DS 8
NBW Upgrade 7
RC Upgrade 10
Direwood Guard Upgrade 5
EB Upgrade 10
Disjunction Upgrade (Combo Hand + Corana debuff)
Sunsorch upgrgade 7
PBAE Upgrade 0
Swarm DoT Upgrade 7
Coat Upgrade 10
Winter's Flame Upgrade 5
Direwild Upgrade 10
Icefall breath Upgrade 10
PL Upgrade 10
Single DS upgrade 0 (Always use group one as mana cost is not an issue)
Charm upgrade 0
Immolation Upgrade 7
Rain Upgrade 5
Stun Upgrade 0
Harmony Upgrade 3
Mammoths Upgrade 5
Reptile upgrade 10

Dawnstrike - would also like to see a new version of this

Group Poi/Dis cure - Unless they add content that requires this then I do not need it

Fenier
05-15-2007, 06:47 AM
How about an upgrade from karana's rage?

No class since PoP has gotten a pillar upgrade. I would be fairly shocked if they decided to bring that line back.

-Fenier

Gaminide
05-15-2007, 09:02 AM
An upgrade to the CH line? Surely it is now getting even more useless?

Tenielle
05-15-2007, 11:46 AM
An upgrade to the CH line? Surely it is now getting even more useless?

PLEASE GOD NO! I refuse to be on a chain again... EVER!

palamin
05-15-2007, 05:48 PM
qoute"
No class since PoP has gotten a pillar upgrade. I would be fairly shocked if they decided to bring that line back."

I would be to.... still I miss quadding with that line of spells. Despite the fact it wouldn't be as effienct now adays as it was before.

The pb ae's would be fun to upgrade as well, and remove that silly timer with em.

Nadjaiskeniskie
05-16-2007, 04:43 AM
Sunbeam upgrade. Reptile upgrade (I don't have the old one yet - but I hear it is useful). No new Cheal. No new gate spells for druids.

Gaennen
05-16-2007, 06:47 AM
As others have said apart from the basic spell line upgrades my top choices are dawnstrike and reptile skin upgrades.

Also, I like zephyrs personally, more of them please.

Karanthal
05-16-2007, 07:23 AM
We have about 20ish obvious candidates that we get every expansion. In addition to those I would like to see

NBW upgrade (I would prefer it to crit like a DD and less DoT damage as I have virtually no Critial Aff AA's)
Efficient group heal
Reptile Skin upgrade - love the spell but it cant keep up at 75, at 80 it'll be in the back of the spell book.

HP buff, clerics and druids are the 2 classes usually asked to main heal for groups. Cleric buffs offer 1200hps more than druids at present. I think we need to be a little closer to what clerics can do on that front. Just a random idea I'm thinking maybe a hp buff of say 400hps that wont stack with symbol, that will also increase heal effectiveness by ~3-4% similar to paladins blessed aura but with a duration of a real buff. It can't be so good that it would be used instead of symbol on raids, but give us a little help when healing groups alone.

I thought druids may end up with a caster based proc buff as shamen got the melee version, it seems that has gone the way of the enchanters though.

I liked dawnstrike, but its hard to keep a spell slot for it with the other stuff we need to have available.

Our MR stun line is pretty useless, it needs something to make it worth meming really, our spell slots are quite precious with heals, dds and debuffs to keep this memed. A couple of times I've though, I could stop that gating if I had that spell up.

A joint debuff would be good for spell slots, but at the same time I like the complexity of stacking the right buffs and in the right order (althought not after the 100th mob of the night), maybe it would be too simple with just 1 fr and 1 for cr.

It does make sence that we could zephyr to everywhere, but I think I've read theres no plans to put them in for the older zones. I cant remember the last time someone asked for a port anyway, maybe put them in for the zones people still visit (OoW onwards) but its not really a priority.

Gaennen
05-16-2007, 07:56 AM
Oh yeah, forgot that. Combined debuff wuold be at the top of my wants list. it's getting a little out of control now the number we have.

Kamion
05-16-2007, 11:13 AM
An upgrade to the CH line? Surely it is now getting even more useless?

Promised renewal...

Fenier
05-16-2007, 11:26 AM
Sunbeam upgrade

I'm sorry - why?

Cenzo
05-16-2007, 12:27 PM
so we can blind things in return for them blinding us!!

1 - Single Skin upgrade
2 - Group Skin
3 - Single DS
4 - Group DS
5 - Self DS Coat
6 - Mask Line Upgrade
7 - Charm Upgrade
8 - Combined Debuff (ice, fire, attk, AC)
9 - Fire Nuke Upgrade
10 - Ice Nuke Upgrade
11 - Fire Debuff DoT Upgrade
12 - Fire DoT Upgrade
13 - Swarm DoT Upgrade
14 - Stun Nuke Upgrade
15 - Harmony Upgrade
16 - Skin of the Reptile Upgrade
17 - Fast Heal Upgrade
18 - Group Heal + Cure

thats all i can think of at the minute.

Druisilla
05-16-2007, 02:23 PM
I generally raid! so I am gonna give my view of that aspect first.

1. Pois/Dis Group Cure.
2. Curse Group Cure.
3. Adrenaline Surge upgrade with a 1 sec cast. (mobs quadding for 16k and better now in game).
4. Add Zephyrs to the old ports, it is usefull, but also wish the cast time was more efficient. Usually transing 10 or more folks and by the time I am done the banner is usually set.
5. Run speed, I have mixed emotions about this one, part of me says its ok. Perhaps make it have a very high level limit to cast on. 70 plus and make it about runspeed 8.
6. Skin line does fine in raids but soloing your stuck with Just that for HP boost, wouldnt mind a single cast hp/ac buff that doesnt stack with symbol but would stack with shaman pally buffs.
7.DoTs Sunscorch upgrade.
8.Debuffs would love a combined debuff.
9.Stuns. current ones we have are useless, we are always killing mobs higher than the stun allows.
10.Regens. Would like to see a HoT spell line added to cast on pullers. something that will give back 600 to 800 a tick back for a 1 min or so.
11.DS upgrades self and group.
12.DD Would love to see a Karana Rage upgrade. Druids Quad ok ).
13.Timers on the aoe spells need to be retuned would be nice to have at least the top two off of the same timer.
14. Pets and Charm. BooBoo hits for 35 can we get something that will hit for 150 at least ). and a new Debuff so our charm will actually last duration or a set duration High end charm.
15.Upgrade Harmony, and why not let it work indoors, we do most of our hunting indoors, in zones that look to be outdoors.
16.Reptile Upgrade
17. Mask Upgrade
18. After Healing 10Billion Rangers they finally forked over how to bind sight to the Druids. Can we get a Bind sight pls ).
19. Group Mammoth.
20.Group heal upgrade with a Corruption, Curse Cures built in.

Nadjaiskeniskie
05-16-2007, 05:06 PM
I'm sorry - why? Current version gets resisted too often (for pushing), and has too short a duration to act as an effective back up for fearing (needs to be one tick longer at least). Edit to add: Talking about the spell sunbeam.

Alaene
05-16-2007, 05:29 PM
I don't know why we should limit requests for a new mask spell to be ONLY 2 points above the current level.

Things have changed regarding mana regen. OOC mana regen, and particularly those raid encounters with long lockout times, have made active mana regen more powerful than ever. Clerics with Yaulp and Shammies with Canni can flat out pwn druids for mana endurance. We need much more mana regen on mask to allow us to keep up.

Fenier
05-16-2007, 06:49 PM
I don't know why we should limit requests for a new mask spell to be ONLY 2 points above the current level.

Things have changed regarding mana regen. OOC mana regen, and particularly those raid encounters with long lockout times, have made active mana regen more powerful than ever. Clerics with Yaulp and Shammies with Canni can flat out pwn druids for mana endurance. We need much more mana regen on mask to allow us to keep up.
You do realize, of course, that we may not be ment to keep up? Nothing has changed in regards to the amount of mana we get over the previous verison of our two mana regen lines, except for the fact Mask wasn't upgraded. Direwild was still increased the same amount as Armor.

It does not help that when they design certain AAs to increase the length at which we do things - such as White Wolf, they get a ton of negative feedback ;/

However, to go with your suggestion, lets assume they are not going to drastically increase the power of Mask, since honestly I don't realisitcally see them giving it a 75-100% power increase.

How would you go about it? At this point it either needs to be another passive buff, or a activated one. If it's activated it's apt to suffer the same limits as Canni and Yaulp, where it ties up a spell gem, and limits what we can and can not do.

-Fenier

Naeyene
05-16-2007, 07:11 PM
You do realize, of course, that we may not be ment to keep up?

I agree with Alaene, on long encounters where the /ooc regen isn't of use, it is hard for druids to be able to sustain heals as long as the other two priest classes can. I find it hard to believe that it was intended for the druids to be sitting OOM near the end while the shammies and clerics finish up.

I can see where druids would definately benifit from some for of active mana regen or a boost to the passive regen that we already have.

Fenier
05-16-2007, 07:16 PM
There are way more factors that go into who has mana at the end of a fight then class tho ;/

Naeyene
05-16-2007, 07:20 PM
I'll leave this topic alone, I remember now why I don't post here.

Juniper
05-16-2007, 07:36 PM
Well, at least some of it is related to play style (which is hugely variable). Transitioning mains from Necromancer to Druid in terms of player's philosophy (at least, the Necromancers and Druids I was exposed to) has bitten me in the ass a couple of times, because I 'forget' who I am playing.

Alaene
05-16-2007, 08:43 PM
You do realize, of course, that we may not be ment to keep up? Nothing has changed in regards to the amount of mana we get over the previous verison of our two mana regen lines, except for the fact Mask wasn't upgraded.

Nothing has changed, sure, except the whole game environment.

In-combant, 2MR per tick added to mask means... precisely nothing. In the face of yaulp and canni, it leaves druids a very distant third - mana-consrvative playstyle included.

There are many ways to address this. Making white wolf more effective would be one. Making mask more effective, another.

More likely, adding incremental (but significant, not 2 stinkin MR) gains to each is going to happen.

What I want though, isn't preserving the status quo, IMO there needs to be ground caught up. Recent changes to druids have been nice, but don't go near far enough IMO.

Fenier
05-16-2007, 09:53 PM
For the sake of argument

We (you and I) do outlast pretty much every other healer in our raids, irregardless of class. While we do have a slight gear advantage, a great deal of that comes from skill and knowledge of how to best handle the encounter we're doing.

However, lets ignore that and break it down on a class on class basis.

In a Raid Environment, we all have access to Mod Rods, SE, c6, Bard Song, Mask, Direwild and so forth. So it all washes out. We have access to the same mana regen AA, so they wash out.

The differences come from a few places.

Items:

Tacvi Hammers, Vish Click Heal Items, etc - wash out. What does not wash out is the fact that the PoR BPs for Shaman and Clerics are heals. Thsi gives them an extra heal every 3.5 minutes, which on a 20 minute encounter gives them a considerable edge. The other items which do not wash out, is the Cleric Epic Shield and Shaman Staff.

So for mana free clicky heal items the order is:

Cleric: 5 (VP, Tacvi, Vish, Epic, PoR)
Shaman: 5(VP, Tacvi, Vish, Epic, PoR)
Druid: 3 (VP, Tacvi, Vish)

Solution here may be to attempt to get Merloc to add in Druid items to "catch us up". I doubt they are changing the Epic or the BP, so the addition of a new item for Druids which are not at the Tacvi/Vish level would even some of the playing ground quite a bit provided it had the correct recast.

Passive Mana Regen

Passive Mana regen is a trait shared by 2 priests - Druids and Clerics. On a Raid setting however, Druids only have a +5 bonus to the other two since Direwild washes out.

If we take a second and for the sake of arguement assume +6 is where we should be now, and +7 is where we should be in SoF the results in fixing the issues with passive regen are:

1: Add in Mask of the Griffin
2: Take a Serious look at AEs which overwrite Mask Line.

For reference, the 5 mana / tick over a 20 minute fight is 1000 mana regened difference without us doing anything except giving up a buff slot.

Activated Mana Regen

This is were we fall behind, because like Shaman have no Passive regen, we have no active.

Lets look at the other two Priests:

Limits:
Each class ties up one spell gem for Active Mana regen

Cleric Limts: Ties up a Buff Slot, Can not use on a mount or Sit while the buff is running, Does not stand with Strength of the Hunter or Spiritual Vim Lines. Has a 3 Second Cycle time. Costs 10 Mana. Net Gain is 54 mana over 4 ticks.

Shaman: Shaman loses 591 mana which must then be recovered in exchange for 1042 mana. Has a 5 Second Cycle time. Must have hp available to use, or shaman will kill his self.

Differences:

Over 4 ticks:

Cleric Regens 54 Mana (34 Difference from Druid)
Shaman Regens 591 mana
Druid Regens 20 Mana

Possible Solutions:

Adding back in the TSS Mask would make the difference to clerics 30, instead of 34. Not a huge change, but it wouldn't hurt, and I do believe necessary, just as I stated in TSS beta.

However, judging from the complaints we see all the time, I am not sold that tying up a spell gem is the best outcome, which, given spell based mana regen, it would be.

AA Mana Regen:

The only priest class with AA mana regen are Shaman, who exchange 4057 HP for 2248 Mana.

They clearly have a massive lead over Clerics and Druids

AA Healing:

Our 15 minute group heals wash out. We all have them.
Our Wards wash out, we all have them, although iirc the cleric one heals a slight bit more
Our GoS line Washes out with UoS
Clerics gain a massive advantage with Divine Arb due to it's low recycle timer.

Possible Solutions:

Lower the recycle on GoS and UoS.
Restore the Touch of Spring AA idea (which was a AA Heal + HoT)

AA Mana Savings:

Only two priests get Mana saving AA.

Shaman get Spiritual Channeling which allows them to cast spells with their HP Bar instead of their mana bar at a much worse ratio. The recycle I believe is 2 hours, the Duration is 3 Minutes

Druids get Spirit of the White Wolf, which gives an additonal 25% mana savings to all bennifical spells for 60 seconds, however it's reuse is 1/12 of Spiritual Channeling

Possible Solutions here:

Make a Detrimental version of White Wolf
Possible increase to White Wolf duration

--

Summary

Any mana issues are not just a result of no activated mana regen. As I have attempted to show it's a combination of several factors which end up giving the other two priests a lead on how long they can heal for. I do not believe just dumping an extra 6 mana regen on mask is going to address our issues, primarily because I don't believe they'll actually do that.

We need the itemization issue looked at, The Epic Weapons and PoR bps give them a substantial edge over us, prior to any spells being cast due to their low reuse timers.

The Passive Mana regen I believe is fine, with the exception we're an era behind having no TSS Mask spell. I did then, and still do, think that was a mistake.

We have never had active mana regen, and if the near impossible happens and we do gain it, I would be willing to bet it would be a fraction of Yaulp's power. The important question here is do you want to give up a Spell gem, buff slot and cast time for a minor mana infusion?

As far as healing AA go, I think we should push for Touch of Spring to be included, it was cut from TSS and would help address the item issue as well as give us a low powered but fast recycling healing AA.

I could also see a increase in duration to White Wolf, but I wouldn't expect it to go over 2 minutes, and I think 1:30 is more likely. You can already nearly cut the mana of a spell in half with Benni Mana Pres, White Wolf and
SCM, I doubt they are going to give us more then that.

-Fenier

Alaene
05-16-2007, 10:51 PM
I do not believe just dumping an extra 6 mana regen on mask is going to address our issues, primarily because I don't believe they'll actually do that.

That's about what it comes down to. Any reason why? Other than that it might make other priest classes bitch? I genuinely don't believe it would produce an unbalanced result.

Fenier
05-16-2007, 11:25 PM
That's about what it comes down to. Any reason why? Other than that it might make other priest classes bitch? I genuinely don't believe it would produce an unbalanced result.
Well for one, an exta 6 mana regen during a 20 minute fight only amounts to an extra 1200 mana, which is at most what? 3 spells? You are not actually making up the amount of ground you want to cover.

So your asking for something you are not apt to get, for a result you don't really want. You may settle for it, but it's not what you want.

With Mana regen you have to assume 'worst case' if someone has this buff (or uses this active ability) every time they can, how much mana will it generate for the average length raid encounter, and does this allow us to surpass what they developers have intended?

So what it comes down to is - how much extra mana are you looking to gain for a 20~ minute fight? 1000? 2000? Or, how much mana are you looking to avoid using (which is really the same question all said and done.)

Weather they tell us or not, there is a max amount of mana they are willing to have priests regen on a normal basis, and compared to the other two priests we don't give up anything for ours really. We don't give up cast time, we don't give up mana or hitpoints on a continous basis, and we not giving up a spell gem, even White Wolf is instant cast.

Logically speaking, based on what they do with other classes, we would have to trade one or more of those for a noticable mana regen increase because I don't see Prathun just having over a 120% mana regen boost with no drawbacks.

-Fenier

Nuttan
05-17-2007, 12:28 AM
Many of the suggestions here are good. Like several there are certain spells that I would guess that we get.

I agree that upgrade to reptile skin would be nice. Next expansion will put it to 10 levels out of date. And a more efficient or stronger group heal would be nice. The recast timer is a pain for certain mobs like fireblood.

A combined debuff would be great. Our guild often has a shortage of clerics and a limited number of druids so we can't spend too much time debuing when the tank in our group is going down fast. That and spell slots on raids are often tight. Of course figuring out which to cast and which to skip is part of the game.

We may never get, but I always hope for:
1) Removal of some of the outdoor only restrictions like harmony. Many of the new zones other classes think are outdoors. In fact, there are several where FOE ran out and I was surprised to find out that it was an indoor zone. It is likely that many would consider it wrong to remove it at this point. But invisibility has restrictions at the lower levels or at least used to. This could infringe on some other classes that don't have the restriction and are more useful in indoors groups.

2) Group RGC. For raids. Mixed blessing since they would likely alter new raids to expect this spell. But, really useful in a few current raids.

Mellen
05-17-2007, 02:35 AM
No class since PoP has gotten a pillar upgrade. I would be fairly shocked if they decided to bring that line back.

-Fenier
While techinically true, it should be noted; wizards, mages, rangers and even shm have recieved beam/cone nukes which work, or at least can be used in about the same way (potentially more powerful really) so I'm not sure how unrealistic something along those lines would be.

We'd might have a better potential to abuse such a spell but I'm not sure it'd be any worse than what a creative ranger or a dru/rng+mage (could work with a shm to a less effective extent as well.. it should work best with a wiz but I believe their spell is currently bugged to where it's overly dangerous to them) combo could do currently.

Mellen
05-17-2007, 02:43 AM
Of that list though, the stun line really should just get scraped... especially if Prathun is going to stick to having only so many spells in lvl increase expansions.

Direwood guard should be axed as a spell and just made an aa. It makes a lot more practical sense like that and there is already a precedent for that with the other 2 priests.

I'd like to see a hand of ro upgrade with a stv style effect. Other than that some sort of grp cure and some sort of active casting caster aid would be nice to up our utility/desirability.

Naeyene
05-17-2007, 02:40 PM
Well for one, an exta 6 mana regen during a 20 minute fight only amounts to an extra 1200 mana, which is at most what? 3 spells? You are not actually making up the amount of ground you want to cover.

Something is better than nothing...

Alaene
05-17-2007, 04:55 PM
Something is better than nothing...

That's my thinking, too. You don't have to sold world peace in one swift move, a bunch of smaller changes with the same effect will do nicely.

Fenier
05-17-2007, 05:39 PM
That's my thinking, too. You don't have to sold world peace in one swift move, a bunch of smaller changes with the same effect will do nicely.
Logically speaking, if something is better then nothing, then it doesn't matter if Mask gets 1 MR or 10 MR, since it's still an increase. Not a good mindset to get into when your trying to accomplish something. Imo the best thing to do is to come up with a plan to address your issue which is likely to be taken seriously.

Imo, it's a multi-part problem, which requires a multiple front solution.

Fenier
05-17-2007, 05:51 PM
While techinically true, it should be noted; wizards, mages, rangers and even shm have recieved beam/cone nukes which work, or at least can be used in about the same way (potentially more powerful really) so I'm not sure how unrealistic something along those lines would be.

We'd might have a better potential to abuse such a spell but I'm not sure it'd be any worse than what a creative ranger or a dru/rng+mage (could work with a shm to a less effective extent as well.. it should work best with a wiz but I believe their spell is currently bugged to where it's overly dangerous to them) combo could do currently.

Pillars had a 200 Range, that was their biggest strong point aside from them hitting 4 mobs at once.

Shaman BoA has 75 Range, and is a Cone
Ranger HoA has 100 Range, and is a Cone, and can miss iirc?
Mage BoM has 150 Range, Beam for a decent mana cost of 612, but has no way to snare mobs on their own.
Wizards can snare, but BoS has a chance to DoT them (as opposed to the former DD), deals 2k Damage, but the Proc has a 20% chance of firing. BoS is likely the best chance for "quading" even tho with a beam you need to spin around and be facing the mobs and there's a good chance at hitting other creatures.

Judging from the list above, it is a realistic request to ask for a Cone/Beam, and of the two I think a Beam would be more handy. I also think it's likely it'd come in around the same damage as the Mage Beam, at appox 1k. Since Karana's Rage was already 1100 Damage, I am really not sure how much flex room we have to convince Prathun tho =(

Alaene
05-17-2007, 06:36 PM
Logically speaking, if something is better then nothing, then it doesn't matter if Mask gets 1 MR or 10 MR, since it's still an increase. Not a good mindset to get into when your trying to accomplish something.

That's not logical at all. A 1 point mask gain is equivalent to "nothing", given that we can assume shammies will get canni upgrades (aa and spell both), and clerics will get selfbuff/yaulp upgrades. A 1 point gain, in that context, amounts to a negative gain - we'll be losing yet further ground to the other priests.

Imo the best thing to do is to come up with a plan to address your issue which is likely to be taken seriously.

I have yet to see why it wouldn't be taken seriously, other than you saying that Prathun wouldn't buy it. If Prathun looks at the numbers and balance issues, and does so objectively, I can't see why he would fail to take the suggestion seriously.

Imo, it's a multi-part problem, which requires a multiple front solution.

On that, we're singing the same tune.

Fenier
05-17-2007, 06:58 PM
I have yet to see why it wouldn't be taken seriously, other than you saying that Prathun wouldn't buy it. If Prathun looks at the numbers and balance issues, and does so objectively, I can't see why he would fail to take the suggestion seriously.
Mostly due to Prathun nearly outright refusing to increase any given spell line by more then 20% one level raise to the next. You'll notice that nearly all our upgrade spells from TSS and TBS where a 15-20% power boost over the old verisons.

I am 100% positive you would have a better shot at proposing an entirely new line, then getting him to give Mask a 100%+ boost.

Edit: He is flexiable to some degree, such as the adjusments from Barkspur to Fernspur, but they have assoicated balancing factors - such as the long recycle and double mana cost.

If you were saying Prathun, I want a 10 MR Mask, I think you wouldn't get anywhere based on what I've seen over the past 2 beta.

Edit 2: The balance issue isn't totally spell based, and that is part of the problem.

-Fenier

Noken
05-19-2007, 08:32 PM
I don't understand why we'd want a magic based pillar again. Cloudburst Hail works in the same way but with a superior resist check and we can debuff cold further if needed.

Also, Spirit of the White Wolf is 15% mana savings, not 25%.

That's a good list to start with Fenier, but there's a few odd ones, for example I find no use from Techtonic Quake or Gale of the Stormborn.

We all know what the core spells are, why list them. IMO we need to see the devs idea of a spell list, to see how creative they think. For example, if they were kind there'd be an upgrade to Disjunction and throw in the %mod to fire nukes on it like skin to vines has. For that matter, an upgrade to hand of ro (no combo) with the %mod would be very much in line too.

Kamion
05-20-2007, 10:31 AM
Quad kiting is the most overhyped thing in all of EQ.

Mellen
05-22-2007, 08:04 PM
Pillars had a 200 Range, that was their biggest strong point aside from them hitting 4 mobs at once.

Shaman BoA has 75 Range, and is a Cone
Ranger HoA has 100 Range, and is a Cone, and can miss iirc? [** it and most spells/discs like that actually have a 10,000% accuracy mod to them - if it doesn't hit it's the result of a successful dodge/block etc. mob side**]
Mage BoM has 150 Range, Beam for a decent mana cost of 612, but has no way to snare mobs on their own.
Wizards can snare, but BoS has a chance to DoT them (as opposed to the former DD), deals 2k Damage, but the Proc has a 20% chance of firing. BoS is likely the best chance for "quading" even tho with a beam you need to spin around and be facing the mobs and there's a good chance at hitting other creatures.

Judging from the list above, it is a realistic request to ask for a Cone/Beam, and of the two I think a Beam would be more handy. I also think it's likely it'd come in around the same damage as the Mage Beam, at appox 1k. Since Karana's Rage was already 1100 Damage, I am really not sure how much flex room we have to convince Prathun tho =(


I wouldn't say it's range was so much it strong point... while those spells have a shorter range than our targeted ae nukes all their cast times are 3secs compared to pillar's 6 or 7sec cast times. I'd wager that for mages/wizzies the mob would probably cover the distance during the extra time spent casting.

But my primary point though was the spell line's power/function was probably being made out to be more taboo than it may actually be. Personally I'd much rather see the spell line turned into a beam nuke than continued as it was.

Mellen
05-22-2007, 08:16 PM
As for new "wildcardish" spells I still like the idea of dawnstrike / epic or stv hybrid spell since they cut the ability from our core line up. A fire nuke that would proc a 100% variable dmg mod (simliar to dawnstrike/fickle fire/mana weave etc.) on the next cold nuke. Or vice versa.

It would give us some utility, help caster dps further, make druid stacking work better, and would spice things up for either lonely druids or casters in general if they're with a druid or two. That is, it forces more active casting in that it changes the usefullness of certain spells. Ex: if it was instead a cold nuke that proced a fire focus it would give an attentive wizard or mage reason to instead cast a spell like their bolt or sothgar's fury that they wouldn't normally cast for what ever reason but would benefit more from the focus effect.


If we get a stv upgrade for some reason I'd think I'd prefer it go back to the slashing or some other melee mod. I think the +fire mod should be instead moved to a more normal debuff (hand of ro upgrade preferably) so it's something that can be part of the normal routine like the other similiar debuffs on malox/icefall/tash etc.

Rajolae
06-01-2007, 10:56 PM
DW upgrade
Group DW upgrade
Mask upgrade thats more than 2 mana
Coat upgrade
Fire nuke upgrade
Ice nuke upgrade
Winter's Flame upgrade
Heal upgrade
For all that's good and holy a poison & disease cure upgrade
Curse DoT upgrade
Immolation DoT upgrade
Swarm DoT upgrade
Combined Hand of Ro, Sun's Corona, and Fixation of Ro debuff that is has at least the combined values of the Hand of Ro and Sun's Corona upgrades that we never got and Fixation of Ro, this should also increase fire spell damage the way Icefall Breath and the MalX upgrades do for ice and magic spells.
Single DS upgrade
Group DS upgrade
Single target, nonstun, magic based DD
Rain upgrade
*Direwood Guard upgrade that is an AA instead of a spell
Prenerf version of Lunarlight that is actually worth casting without needing nothing but top end raid foci over Moonshadow
Dawnstrike upgrade
Heavily upgraded Skin of the ReptileHonestly I think it is unfair for buff classes to be have both group and single target versions of new spells to count for their spell total, this should be changed as to not crap on us with two DS spells and the like. Also, level cap based spells (EG: Harmony) should not count against anyone, either. New spells should also stop the crap of having shared recast timers with older spells, shamans are the only class that should have ever had to deal with this and solely with Cannibalize.

Things I do NOT want to see:
Anything root based short of fixed duration without a long recast.
Anything snare based short of a Serpent Vines equivalent of Ensnare (short cast and long duration)
Retarded stun nuke that is effectively useless in the good parts of the expansion
Large damage, max hit based damage shields
PBAE upgrade
Charm upgrade unless charm is completely unnerfed

Amped
06-02-2007, 12:21 AM
Does anyone use Skin to vines?

I have never had much success with this. Only thing i really like is the cast time.

Rajolae
06-02-2007, 12:53 AM
Does anyone use Skin to vines?

I have never had much success with this. Only thing i really like is the cast time.

No, as it stands it's just wasted space in my spellbook.

Amped
06-02-2007, 11:36 AM
Ok then, for proposed changes to our fire debuff, woudl it be reasonable to incorporate AC, ATK, and fire resist debuff into one spell at the current max value that we have AND get cast time of skin to vines? With maybe a % damage mod like Icefall breath does for ice? or is that overpowering?

If this was all with one spell it would actually be memmed and used, unlike current debuffs. We have to mem too many to get the desired effect and they take up spell slots that could otherwise be taken up by spells that CAUSE damage. By the time I get done de-buffing a mob it is usually to close to death to even bother trying to nuke it.

Amped
06-02-2007, 11:37 AM
Oh yeah. And ice DOT ftw. heh.:whistle:

Fenier
06-02-2007, 11:50 AM
Our guild is caster heavy. We have 6-8 Wizards, 2-3 Mages and 3-5 Druids on a raid. In order to maximize this, we do use Skin to Vines on any target which it will land which is not Fire Resistant.

With the amount of active Druids we have, there is no reason to *not* cast it, when it increases the raids DPS.

The spell needs more to it however in any future verisons, if it is going to become a staple spell line.

-Fenier

Tenielle
06-02-2007, 11:22 PM
ice dot

Micahle
06-03-2007, 12:28 AM
I use StV on every raid boss it lands on. We have 5 Druids on the roster but our average is 2 - Debuffs (all of them) are a priority for me, i typically have to make spell sets for every encounter we do, so i can get them all in. (annoying as hell - wtb more active druids :p)

Gegen
06-03-2007, 04:47 PM
We use every debuff available as well, just split the duties up between druids. It seems as though you may be talking about in single groups, why are you using all your debuffs then? I cast HoR or icefall breath on xp mobs depending on their resistance and lay into them. On harder named then maybe you throw in an extra debuff or two, but you should generally not be worrying about casting them all on trash mobs... even raid trash.

Fryar
06-03-2007, 09:46 PM
Ice dot sounds interesting for sure.

A properly balanced Group Heal upgrade, as was mentioned previously.

We need some type of cure upgrade, although I'm unsettled whether to push for a better single cure, or some form of group cure. But curing needs to be addressed.

As for Mask issues, if Mask+2 is the 'safe' bet of what we will get(either by asking for it, or by not even mentioning it and that's simply what they will give us), then we risk nothing by pushing for either a new spell line that we'd prefer more, or by pushing for a larger Mask upgrade. The replies in this thread(and the AA thread) represent literally years of experience playing druids, in various situations.

This is clearly the best time for some brainstorming and creative thinking, as opposed to pre-empting discussion about 'radical' new ideas. If Mask jumped straight to 20/tick regen, what would the actual affect be? 15/tick, 150 mana per minute, meaning every ~2 mins I can cast an extra mediocre spell. Does this make druids more balanced or less balanced? If you said more balanced, is it enough?

Micahle
06-04-2007, 01:29 AM
I use StV on every raid boss it lands on. We have 5 Druids on the roster but our average is 2 - Debuffs (all of them) are a priority for me, i typically have to make spell sets for every encounter we do, so i can get them all in. (annoying as hell - wtb more active druids :p)

I was obviously talking about raids :P I don't debuff trash and in groups or solo i only use Blistering Sunray to debuff.

Rajolae
06-04-2007, 07:55 PM
Ice dot sounds interesting for sure.

A properly balanced Group Heal upgrade, as was mentioned previously.

We need some type of cure upgrade, although I'm unsettled whether to push for a better single cure, or some form of group cure. But curing needs to be addressed.

As for Mask issues, if Mask+2 is the 'safe' bet of what we will get(either by asking for it, or by not even mentioning it and that's simply what they will give us), then we risk nothing by pushing for either a new spell line that we'd prefer more, or by pushing for a larger Mask upgrade. The replies in this thread(and the AA thread) represent literally years of experience playing druids, in various situations.

This is clearly the best time for some brainstorming and creative thinking, as opposed to pre-empting discussion about 'radical' new ideas. If Mask jumped straight to 20/tick regen, what would the actual affect be? 15/tick, 150 mana per minute, meaning every ~2 mins I can cast an extra mediocre spell. Does this make druids more balanced or less balanced? If you said more balanced, is it enough?

Realistically it should jump more than 1/expansion, the same goes for all mana regen spells anymore. The amount that they go up is insignificant next to how much mana people go up with new expansions gear and/or level caps.

Discanthir
06-06-2007, 05:53 PM
Did a thing on my wants in new spells here http://thedruidsgrove.org/eq/forums/showthread.php?t=15840&page=2

I don't want to repeat again and use more space up.

Grendyl
06-07-2007, 12:47 PM
I would like to see the following :

Debuff lines condensed, say 1 for fire and 1 for cold. They would debuff ATK/AC and either FR or CR as appropriate. Then they would each add 4 to 6% damage or whatever of the appropriate resist type. They should not stack with any of the previous debuffing lines to prevent some crazy stacking exploit, but they should stack with each other. The total amount of debuffing should match our current total (plus whatever is deemed an appropriate upgrade). The fire debuff could comprise more of the total amount (split say 60/40 or even 70/30) to continue the trend of our debuffing being stronger versus fire vulnerable mobs.

Have 1 or 2 cold DoTs added to give us 4 or 5 current era DoT spells (not really counting NBW). I think it would be great to have them function similar to Blistering Sunray/Sunscorch with one being longer duration with a debuff component and the other be shorter duration higher DPS. Perhaps make the cold DoTs slightly more efficient and slightly less DPS than the fire ones.

Longer duration chromatic snare and root to make them true upgrades to Savage Roots and Ensnare. Not as long lasting as the older spells necessarily, but at least double the current durations.

Upgrade our "forgotten" lines : Pure Blood, Skin of the Reptile, Glamour of Tunare to name a few.

For spell distribution, I would suggest that Tier 1 / Rk. 1 be vendor purchased like TSS. Tier 2 should be similar to OOW rune turn-ins, except the runes should come from trash mob drops (like TSS), not from named mobs. All runes at all levels should be tradable and not class specific in any way. The turn-in NPC should have a simple turn-in loop : Rune -> Spell 1 -> Spell 2 -> ... -> Spell N -> Rune. So you pick your spell by repeatedly handing back in the spells until you get the one you want. If you have all the spells (or decide you'd rather sell the rune), you get the rune back at the end of the loop. In addition, not all spells should have Tier 2 representations. In particular, buff spells and the traditional level capped effect spells (or any spells that just don't scale up well) would only exist at rank 1. The number of Tier 2 spell lines can be normalized across classes this way if the developers insist on such a thing again, without penalizing the buffing classes who not only have more total spells usually, but also have single and group cast versions of the spells taking up slots. The Tier 3 spells can perhaps be broken down further class-wise (say pure melee, hybrids, priests, casters all having an archtype-specific rune to collect. Even fewer spells can be represented in Tier 3, just the "big effect number" type spells (nukes, heals, etc. not the utility spells that don't really good ways to scale up anyway). It always seemed strange to me that specific spells dropped at rk. 2 in TSS, in group content where the chances were good that the class was not present at all in the group, but at rk. 3 there was a generic rune turn in system, where a much broader selection of classes was almost guaranteed to be available. Basically, it just mandated that most groupable spell upgrades (Teir 2) would come from the bazaar.

Amped
06-07-2007, 08:51 PM
Or you could do what was intended and farm for them.......

Taolana
06-13-2007, 05:20 AM
I have never posted on here before, but I wanted to take part in the discussion of the new expansion and what is wanted/expected for spells.

I would really like to see an upgrade to reptile skin. I use that spell almost everyday on myself and on fellow groupmates (mostly paladins and sk's). It seems to help on certain raids also, so an upgraded version would definately be helpful.

Ice dot would also be nice. We have fire and magic dots, so it would seem more balanced to have an ice dot.

Mask upgrade. Thats a given, the added mana regen would help to keep up in raid encounters and normal groups.

Combined debuff is super nice. Druids have about 4-5 debuffs that will stack (ice and fire). That just takes up alot of room with the spell gems, so combined debuffs would really help so we can have other needed spells up and ready when they are needed.

Are we going to see anymore regen spells? Since our last one was taken out for 2 more dots. I personally don't use regen too often, but they do help out in certain situations.

A new HoT wouldnt be a bad idea either. I mean, yeah, we got that really small HoT, but it would be nice to have a bigger one so we dont constantly have to use quick heals for small amounts of damage done.

I also have to agree that an FoE upgrade would rock. Be nice to have a faster indoor sow/wolf form also. Run 5 is definately way faster than pack shrew, so shrew is pretty much obsolete in my book.

Sanoliene
06-13-2007, 10:50 AM
Group Cure Curse/Dis/Poison counters Fenier and I'll keep you in cupcakes for life.

Naeyene
06-13-2007, 05:30 PM
Group Cure Curse/Dis/Poison counters Fenier and I'll keep you in cupcakes for life.
This is what I'd like to see myself for Druids, everything else is just gravy. (Aside from the Fenier and cupcakes thing...) *pelts popcorn at Sano*

Taolana
06-14-2007, 06:10 AM
A group heal with a dis/curse/pois, or just dis/pois counters would be pretty cool. Pretty much like the clerics Vivi heal. Would be alot more convenient for those fights with dis/pois based dots.

Fenier
06-14-2007, 03:56 PM
As a side note:

Prathun is not a fan of group Curse cures.

He mentioned previously he was open to the idea of Group Poi/Disease cures, but nothing came of it.

-Fenier

Sanoliene
06-14-2007, 06:38 PM
can dream! for clarification I didn't necessarily mean all in one I meant cure or disease or poison

Fenier
06-14-2007, 06:47 PM
I read it as a Group Curse Cure Or a Group Poison/Disease cure

He said no way on the first one (he's not a fan of making Curse encounters more trival then they already are) and possibly on the second (tho nothing has come of it at this point in time).

On the plus side we got a Group Corruption cure ;p Now to bad it doesn't help the previous 7 years worth of content ;/

-Fenier

Sanoliene
06-14-2007, 08:24 PM
Nature's Chilling Wrath

Ice based version of NBW. Same principle same timer

Taolana
06-15-2007, 01:39 PM
Ice form of NBW would be neat. NBW has both dot and nuke properties, which sucks. It breaks root like a nuke, and the initial dmg cant crit. So atleast make them so they dont break root or so the initial dmg can crit like a nuke!

Fenier
06-15-2007, 05:17 PM
Prathun has stated if the direct damage part of NBW criticals, he is scaling back the damage of the spell.

Taolana
06-16-2007, 02:57 AM
Prathun has stated if the direct damage part of NBW criticals, he is scaling back the damage of the spell.

how about making it so it atleast doesnt break root?

Fenier
06-16-2007, 06:53 AM
That would be awesome.

I think I know the reason it breaks it so often, and it has to do with the reason our lower level root spells used to break so quickly. I think asimilar change is needed here.

Taolana
06-16-2007, 12:10 PM
If I am lucky, my root will stick through atleast 3 casts of NBW, but that doesnt happen very often, so it would be good to have it so it does not break root anymore.

Rajolae
06-16-2007, 04:28 PM
That would be awesome.

I think I know the reason it breaks it so often, and it has to do with the reason our lower level root spells used to break so quickly. I think asimilar change is needed here.

Eh? What would this be?

Fenier
06-16-2007, 05:38 PM
Our lower level roots do damage then root. They used to root, then do damage.

In the latter situation the damage would break the root after it landed.

NBW gives a mob 3 chances to break root per tick,when you cast it. The normal root break chance, the I've just been nuked chance, and the now i have a Dot chance.

I am betting, that is why you see a higher break ratio.

-Fenier

Artreth
06-18-2007, 12:14 AM
1: Group Cure for Poison/Disease (this will annoy shms cos its their line, but they got lastitude which was pretty much same as reptile) [1]
2: Group Cure for Curse (all priest classes should get) [1]
3: Ports to new locations (2 or 3 locations, gate, group gate and zephyr) [6 or 9]
4: Ice form of NBW [1]
5: Combo version of HoR/SC/STV [1]
6: Combo version of Hoar/Icefall [1]
7: New Magic DoT [1]
8: new fire (immolation line) dot [1]
9: New fire (Sunscorch Line) dot [1]
10: New fire (blistering line w/ fire debuff) dot [1]
11: New Dawnstrike Line [1]
12: New Winters Flame nuke [1]
13: New Cold Nuke [1]
14: New Self Mana buff (+2 cos we got missed this time) [1]
15: New Self DS [1]
16: New Skin buffs (please dont let it share same name as zone this time) [2]
17: New Mana efficient group and single heals [2]
18: Group Mammoth [1]
19: New Runspeed/Levi buff [2]
20: New Regen's [2]
21: New DS [2]


thats 26 spells not including the gates ... and i really dont think that some of them are really necessary like 8,9, 12, and 20/21 to an extent.

Taolana
06-18-2007, 03:57 AM
16: New Skin buffs (please dont let it share same name as zone this time)
ya know...our direwild doesnt share a name with a zone...

Direwild Skin
Direwind Cliffs

although, i guess it can get confusing...i like to give my guildies a TL to direwind if they tell me they want direwind (meaning direwild)...

Aldier
06-20-2007, 12:41 AM
ya know...our direwild doesnt share a name with a zone...

Direwild Skin
Direwind Cliffs

although, i guess it can get confusing...i like to give my guildies a TL to direwind if they tell me they want direwind (meaning direwild)...

Doesn't help that shaman got Dire and Talisman of Dire.

Taolana
06-21-2007, 04:16 AM
Doesn't help that shaman got Dire and Talisman of Dire.

Yeah...but they cant TL people like we can =P

Artreth
07-04-2007, 11:19 AM
i have people ask for dire, so i give em a TL box to dire =P ...

Another thing i want to /rant about is the 'Vow of Valor' Line of spells that clerics got.

Thru TBS/TSS Clerics/Shamans got Lastitude and Vow of Valor ... Both of which work as a heal proc when hit ... exact same as our reptile. This was one thing that kept druids unique, in PoR pallies got a self version of it (ward of tunare), TSS clerics got their version, which does damage aswell (vow of valor), and in TBS shamans got their version (lastitude) ... yeah the shm one is a HoT, and therefore not as effective as reptile, but the Pal one is more powerful, but isnt targeted its self only, and the clr one not only heals the cleric, but does damage to the mob aswell (like their old combate innate spells with a kick)

So now, one of the best spells that druids ever got was hoared out to the other priests, and priest hybrids. all i can say is WTF.

~Art

Caean
07-04-2007, 01:30 PM
VoV works as a weapon proc the heal is part of the proc from the weapon it doesn't work like reptile and also pallies got WoT at the same time you got reptile.

Also the vov proc is a hot which doesn't stack with the normal hot. so getting 2 procs of it doesn't double the healing.

Fenier
07-04-2007, 02:18 PM
Vow of Valor also reduces the effectiveness of their direct heals. It's basically a soloing only tool.

Lassitude is an extension of Sloth, which was their spell to our Reptile. It's a HoT and only fires on less then half of the slow procs, since it's capped at 40%. This translates to 2/3 healing ppm on average compared to Reptiles 7~ healing ppm, the major healing difference here is reptile scales drastically as the swing rate increases, and neither Vow or Lassitude do due to their being HoTs.

Taolana
07-05-2007, 04:53 PM
I see lots of people wanting reptile skin rather than lassitude for the heal procs. In any case Reptile > Vov and Lassitude! lol

VoV works as a weapon proc the heal is part of the proc from the weapon it doesn't work like reptile and also pallies got WoT at the same time you got reptile.
As far as i know, WoT procs less than 600 heal, although it does last way long iirc. I think they should make reptile skin last longer...or atleast last through more hits than it does already. I use that spell alot, but it would be nice if it did last longer or something.

11: New Dawnstrike Line [1]
Now theres a nuke i liked! Bring a new one back omg!

Artreth
07-12-2007, 12:03 PM
OK, i was mistaken about VoV ... clerics in guild were tellin me it was the same as reptile, but better. Lastitude i have used myself on a friends shm, and personally i think it should get nerfed ... shaman's get the ability to slow to help them solo, if i could slow id be able to solo a **** load more and alot more effectively. But meh, i just think that druids are getting the short end of the stick here, and there should be more done to help us out, shorter cast times on nukes (sting of the bee for shms is .5secs) ... but meh, i know it wont happen.

on another note ...
ya know...our direwild doesnt share a name with a zone...

Direwild Skin
Direwind Cliffs

although, i guess it can get confusing...i like to give my guildies a TL to direwind if they tell me they want direwind (meaning direwild)...
most call Direwild Skin Dire, which people call the zone, which is also the same as the shm buffs...

"Can i get a Dire please" (request off people for people for buffs to dru/shm)
"Lets head to dire and exp" (talk in group about going to dire exp zone)

that is what i meant about getting a buff the same as a zone. But still, anyone asks for dire, ill hit em with a TL ... its gotten folks asking for skin now =P.

Sippin
07-12-2007, 05:54 PM
I'd be happy if they just cleaned up the disorganized mess which constitutes our collection of debuff spells. Talk about a set of spells designed with no plan in mind. Give us one, or maybe two at most, spells which accomplish everything that we need to cast as many as 5 spells now to do. Or maybe if it's expecting too much to combine fire and cold debuff effects into one, at least combine the effects of the fire debuffs into one spell. Make it level 80 and a serious (but at most groupable) quest to obtain, I'm ok with that.

Juliania
07-13-2007, 02:24 PM
Howdy ya'll. Long time lurker, first time poster. :wavey:

I wanted to put my 2˘ in on this topic. Most of what I'd like to see has already been posted, but heres my list:

- Group Poi/Dis cure. Long overdue IMO.
- A better Booboo. I miss my lil' buddy.
- FoE upgrade.
- Group Mammoths.
- Mask upgrade.
- Dawnstrike upgrade.
- Ice Dot. That be cool.
- Wolf form upgrade. /howl
- Treeform upgrade or a tree illusion. One that’s moveable would be ultra cool. :tongue:
- Combined fire/atk/AC debuff. Less gems for debuffs = more room for dots/nukes. :texla:
- Ice form of NBW. That be sweet.
- New or upgraded magic DD. w/ or w/o stun.
- Upgrade to CH. I can crit higher with quick heals than my CH heals for...lol.
- Upgrade to piller nuke. It be fun to try and quad again.
- Snare like serpent vines that lasts longer.
- Root/DD upgrade.
- and of course upgrades to current dot/nuke lines.

Some of these I know may be wishful thinking, but oh what fun it would be to walk around as a tree. :biggrin:

Sorkin
08-09-2007, 08:53 AM
I'd like to see a spell similar to an enchanters self buff that mezzes anything that hits them with a pretty sweet resist check. For us instead of mez, it would be a knockback/root instead.

serinity_inny
08-09-2007, 01:36 PM
well we are getting mask and skin to reptile upgrade according to devs at FF.

And they said they don't want to do X spells this time (20 or 24?) We will be keeping the RK I, II and II style but I think they hinted more along TSS lines since only 19 RK III's from TBS have been purchased.

Taolana
08-14-2007, 03:43 PM
Howdy ya'll. Long time lurker, first time poster. :wavey:

I wanted to put my 2˘ in on this topic. Most of what I'd like to see has already been posted, but heres my list:

- Group Poi/Dis cure. Long overdue IMO.
- A better Booboo. I miss my lil' buddy.
- FoE upgrade.
- Group Mammoths.
- Mask upgrade.
- Dawnstrike upgrade.
- Ice Dot. That be cool.
- Wolf form upgrade. /howl
- Treeform upgrade or a tree illusion. One that’s moveable would be ultra cool. :tongue:
- Combined fire/atk/AC debuff. Less gems for debuffs = more room for dots/nukes. :texla:
- Ice form of NBW. That be sweet.
- New or upgraded magic DD. w/ or w/o stun.
- Upgrade to CH. I can crit higher with quick heals than my CH heals for...lol.
- Upgrade to piller nuke. It be fun to try and quad again.
- Snare like serpent vines that lasts longer.
- Root/DD upgrade.
- and of course upgrades to current dot/nuke lines.

Some of these I know may be wishful thinking, but oh what fun it would be to walk around as a tree. :biggrin:

Druids have too many wolf forms, it would be nice to have some other type of illusion/sow spell, instead of always a wolf. Yeah I know, druids are all intune with nature and stuff, but the illusion change up would be nice. Like said previously, "a griffon" type illusion/sow would be cool.

The treant idea would be pretty neat. But does that mean it would overwrite mask of the wild and other mana regen spells too?

I never use my CH. Its useless, and I probably wouldn't use an upgraded version either. Druids aren't really meant to heal like clerics, so I could go with or without a new CH. I like doing other things in between heals, which a 10 sec cast time heal really wouldn't allow me to do other things. From experience, people tend to rely on it way too much, and than deaths occur. I mostly see this happening with clerics (no offense). All in all, CH is beginning to become obsolete with druids and cleric (except on raids). Most clerics like to hit a tank with PR and than melee til PR goes off, rinse and repeat.

All the other things I definately agree with. As for the things commented about, I don't disagree with it, but it's just my own opinion. I will still love the druid class with or without those 3 upgrades. :lol:

Discanthir
08-14-2007, 08:08 PM
I never use my CH. Its useless, and I probably wouldn't use an upgraded version either. Druids aren't really meant to heal like clerics, so I could go with or without a new CH. I like doing other things in between heals, which a 10 sec cast time heal really wouldn't allow me to do other things.

I only ever use my CH on raids when we throw a few druids in the CH chain so clerics can group heal/cure. (the cure thing really bugs me. If we don't get an upgrade I am going to be pissed). But anyway, I have a 12K+ mana pool. I also am friends with a lot of casual only players, and let me tell you, without Karana's Renewal those druids can't heal crap. They don't have the mana. A friend of mine always starts his CH early, and interupts if it's not needed, or patches with a quick heal as little as possible. When he uses quick heals only he is oom in 2-4 mobs. With CH he lasts 4-10. This is without time to rest between pulls. I know I have read a lot about the devs never going to put a new CH spell in, but I do want to point out that it is still a very useful tool for non-raiders, especially for people without a good healing focus.

I also love the idea of the self buff like the chanters have. A buff we could cast with a knockback/root proc. It will be great for soloing and a ton of group content. It won't be useful in tight situations or places where other squishies would then be next to the rooted mob, so I don't think it would be overpowered at all.

I've said it before, and so has everyone else, but a spell that combines our debuffs ftw.

Taolana
08-15-2007, 04:22 AM
Honestly, I could delete my CH from my spell book and never look back lol. The last time I was put on a CH rot was over a year ago. Druid CH is pretty useless with tanks that have 20k+ hp. 5990hp heal isn't going to do much when you can crit heal for 13k or more. So I suppose an upgraded CH would help those non-raiders, but hopefully it will be atleast an 8k CH or more. :icon_lol:

Wru griffon illusion! :lmao:

Akora7
08-16-2007, 01:07 PM
yes yes! cold dot ftw!!! called Frost Bite!!! deals more damage as it ticks away :)

been sending feedback for a cold dot forever!!! lol that doesnt work unfortunately :'(

yes! a better bear pet!!!
yes!! a treant illusion!!! that'd be unique

but pls no upgraded CH!!!.. im not a cleric and i dont wish to be :\

Kamion
08-16-2007, 01:41 PM
- Ice Dot. That be cool.
- Ice form of NBW. That be sweet.

I honestly don't see the need for both a ice dot and a ice NBW. I think a good middle ground would be to have a ice DoT w/ a short duration and have it be a reverse splurt DoT, that way it'ld be more useful in groups (frontload the damage.)

We're the only DoT class who hasn't got a new DoT line since LDoN (NBW doesn't count) and the only DoT class who hasn't got a reverse splurt dot, so I think we have arguing grounds.

But what is up with the rubbish resist checks on vengeance and NBW lines? =/ We used to be the king of DoT resist checks, yet all the dots we have that are useful in XP groups require debuffing in a lot of cases, which defeats the purpose of having a short duration dot in the first place (getting all the ticks in before the mob dies.)

Taolana
08-16-2007, 05:09 PM
I honestly don't see the need for both a ice dot and a ice NBW. I think a good middle ground would be to have a ice DoT w/ a short duration and have it be a reverse splurt DoT, that way it'ld be more useful in groups (frontload the damage.)

We're the only DoT class who hasn't got a new DoT line since LDoN (NBW doesn't count) and the only DoT class who hasn't got a reverse splurt dot, so I think we have arguing grounds.

But what is up with the rubbish resist checks on vengeance and NBW lines? =/ We used to be the king of DoT resist checks, yet all the dots we have that are useful in XP groups require debuffing in a lot of cases, which defeats the purpose of having a short duration dot in the first place (getting all the ticks in before the mob dies.)

I have actually gotten NBW to land on almost anything I use it on without debuffing (including pvp on people with max resist). Vengeance, however, seems to get resisted like there is no tomorrow. I can't land it at all in pvp also.

Kamion
08-16-2007, 05:30 PM
I have actually gotten NBW to land on almost anything I use it on without debuffing (including pvp on people with max resist). Vengeance, however, seems to get resisted like there is no tomorrow. I can't land it at all in pvp also.

PvP resist checks are totally separate from PvE resist checks.

Micahle
08-16-2007, 05:47 PM
NBW resists often without prior debuffing of HoR or Sunray (or on some mobs, both) :(

Taolana
08-16-2007, 06:02 PM
NBW resists often without prior debuffing of HoR or Sunray (or on some mobs, both) :(

/shrug, I never debuff when I am in groups, and have rarely gotten resists with NBW. The only place I never use that spell is in AG. :icon_lol: