But it is invisible.

And posting has been disabled for most of the day, even if you can find your way there (http://thedruidsgrove.org/eq/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=6).

probably testing out how much money they'd save by axing us away!

I jest! (i hope!)

Then we'll rise up and take over one of these little forums that talk about something called EQ.

No one uses the sig test forum!

Get rid of OT in IMHO.

This is the druidsgrove or OTgrove?

You know, maybe its really a good thing.

Blasphemy!!

Get rid of OT in IMHO.

This is the druidsgrove or OTgrove?

The major users of the OT section have been members of the Grove for near a decade now...many have been past moderators and/or Admins.

It is also gets more use than the General EQ forum section, iirc.

This is our home...so, F anyone who wants to get rid of the OT section. =)

For awhile I thought someone was mad at me and had disabled my privileges to post. Then someone PM'd me and I figured it out that it wasn't just me.

I put a "bug report" in, has anyone heard anything about what happened/is happening?

I thought it was me, because I was the last to post.

If TPTB turn off OT, it won't be because of you, Pan.

/wink

Boo hiss... no OT :frown:

I thought it was me, because I was the last to post.

If TPTB turn off OT, it won't be because of you, Pan.

/wink
Yeah, I was thinking I'm actually rather well-behaved compared to some of you. :p

Actually, it seemed to me that everyone in OT thought they were better than everyone else. That being the premise of many of the discussions that turned into arguments.

*shaking with withdrawl*

Argh, the second day of the outage. What is going on, moderators?

Do we need to offer a sacrificial libertarian at the DG altar to get the forums back up?

Hey... how do you like my new signature?

Argh, the second day of the outage. What is going on, moderators?

Do we need to offer a sacrificial libertarian at the DG altar to get the forums back up?

Honestly, I don't know what's up...

I don't know if my admin permissions are enough to restore the forum or not...and I don't want to try until I can hear from Raj or Storm to see if there is a technical issue of some sort which I risk aggrevating if I shamelessly abuse my emeritus admin permissions =P

Hey... how do you like my new signature?

Bah, now you're just a copycat.

Amped got the humor of the statement!

Argh, the second day of the outage. What is going on, moderators?

Do we need to offer a sacrificial libertarian at the DG altar to get the forums back up?


Are you suggesting, then, that libertarians are gnomes?

So... I wonder if OT disappearing has something to do with the poll most of us never saw. :p

Oh yeah, I got an email from SOE today with what I assume was a drawing of Fironia Vie... only she looks like a half-orc nowadays. Who hit her with the ugly stick?

The OT forum's been closed simply because it no longer had any place on this board. If the active Everquest community would like to have another OT forum which follows the general guidelines and rules in place for the rest of the board, then I will be happy to put one back in place. However, the sentiment I've heard from most of the EQ folks is that they felt that the OT forum was pretty much a separate entity from the main EQ boards and that the hostile environment did not lend itself to welcoming any new participants.

If the old OT community wishes to set up their own private board hosted on the TDG forums I'm sure Sobe or Rahj can help set that up, but in the meanwhile, they will remain offline.

*blink*

This is a belated april's fools joke, right? I mean, at least give us a chance to actually set up another forum - without the OT we have nowhere in common to meet and discuss such a move.

In that case, I bid you all adieu. I can't say it is a suprising thing. The "discussions" had become increasingly less discussion and more outright flame fests.

Good day, and may you all stand up and actually work for and even fight for what you believe to be right.

Whoa! That's a level of rudeness I've never encountered here before.

I know I've personally donated to TDG every year since EZ Board and you don't even have the courtesy to communicate with us that you're thinking of doing this or going to do this?

Wow... oh well.

Tinsi, you have PM's turned off? I can't respond to your PM

I think Tinsi's box is full or some such.

bitteraidon@hotmail.com btw Tinsi =P

I think Tinsi's box is full or some such.

bitteraidon@hotmail.com btw Tinsi =P

Neh, i changed my contact mail address, and it took a while for the authorisation email to reach my inbox. Re-send, hobbit.

EDIT: OK then, you're allowed to re-send yours too, pan :)

Well... at least I'll have something to tell Jinjre and Iagoe when they come to visit me tomorrow. Do you guys remember them? They used to frequent OT.

Tell her she should come back...erm, well, nm then.

Cuss jinjre out for 3 seconds for me please, for old times sake.

3 seconds? Why the brevity?

So... I wonder if OT disappearing has something to do with the poll most of us never saw. :p

Can't be - OT got 2nd most votes of all forums.

However, the sentiment I've heard from most of the EQ folks is that they felt that the OT forum was pretty much a separate entity from the main EQ boards and that the hostile environment did not lend itself to welcoming any new participants.What about the sentiment from the OT folks who were never asked, some of whom have been posting for years?

If the "EQ folks" don't like the OT forum, they don't have to post there.

How rude to just shut it off without even giving any warning.

Can't be - OT got 2nd most votes of all forums.It also gets 5-10x more posting activity than the general forum. And if you've ever checked the "Who's online," you wouldn't believe the number of guests who lurk and read those threads.

You're ****ting me.

Hrmm... I see.. it must be a conspiracy! Did GWB pay you off ?!! :nono:


Seriously tho, the OT section was my primary form of intellectual stimulation, wether I agreed or disagreed (Usualy), It was still good to debate things.

I hope the decision was not final.

As far as the hostile environment, there were quite a few of us that wanted the same policy to apply to the OT forum as it did to the rest of the forum but we were apparently out-voted by the moderators wishes at the time.

So it is kind of strange that you exempt the OT forum from the usual moderation then cite that as the reason to shut it down.

Just before anyone goes running off in a huff...

This has happened here before.


We will work it out. Just a matter of how and where.

Is it money. I got money now. If I could drop 20 buck donations while unemployed, I could figure in more.

I have been toying with the idea of a multi poster-editor blog format, actually. If Michelle Malkin could turn her blog into a correspondent position at Fox, any of us could actually. Most of us write better than she.

Some of the more astute and better writers at MB have expressed interest already.

As far as the hostile environment,


No more hostile than a typical Crossfire type format.


And if a reader could not see that a lot of the 'drama' was not a bit of theater, I would assess that that reader was probably too noob to post. Wilted lilies.


I count all of the vehement word slingers as friends, actually.

I'd rather see OT moderated than deleted.

Or maybe alternatively, move what's currently the OT forum to a new "Debate" forum or somesuch, which is initially non-visible (but with a sticky mentioning how to request access elsewhere) and requires people to request access to view/post. That way, anyone who doesn't want to see it won't, and won't be offended. You could then make a new, fully moderated OT forum.

Or something.

/shrug

And just for those who don't remember history. Or are too new to have lived it.

The OT forum was created because the front main section was filled with non game posts that filled pages. I know Tudamorf remembers the NETs.

And then all the posters there were scared off by a poster who made IRL threats to some of the other posters. And Lilly created her own board, The Meadow.

Took a bunch of fluff posters with her. It thrived for a while, I even had an account there.

And then old The Rants section got reshuffled to The Unkempt. And some really good long time posters left in a huff. Because it was not Rants anymore.

Anyway, what I am saying, is that it will work itself out. And I don't mind putting my money where my mouth is, even. Which is probably what this all about anyway.

...Or something.



Like a deathray? perhaps.

You are kidding right.


Most of us have the ability to set up a server, connect it to the web, run board or blog software, AND know how to advertise for savvy web readers and posters. I think we have just got lazy and comfortable, really.

I don't care what you care to believe, we have a few first time posts there in OT, lurker breakers.

And every single OT poster is completely able to moderate themselves or the other OT posters, quite well, thank you.


Edit: well, I would have liked mod status back just to fix Pan's typos in titles thing. But I was able to live with it, if she were.

Wow. Removing the OT board was unexpected, to say the least.

I guess it is a sign that it was disconnected, culturally at least, from the main board, since I religiously checked the OT board every day or 2 days, but I didn't see that poll on the general boards until it was closed.

Nevertheless, the OT forum did receive many more votes than many other separate boards, so I am left to conclude that the main reason it was closed down was due to the perceived atmosphere, or "tone" of some of the posts.

That is unfortunate, as many old timers would cut the line very fine between theatrics and drama, and someone that had not been tracking the main posters in that forum for years might not have the historical reference in which to blend in with the seeming caustic nature of some of the posts in OT.

I think it is a testimony to the power of socialization that EQ brought to the table, that some, even though the game has long passed out of active play for those in the OT, still connect with nothing but the free market of ideas and exchange of opinion, years and years later. So kudos to the social pioneering of EQ! It shows that you can form lasting ties over a MMORPG quite readily.

I would say an exhaustive list of people to say good bye to, but that may be premature, and I'm sure things are moving about in the background to which I'm not privy to, so I'll keep checking the General, and this thread in specific for alternatives or possibilities that Stormhaven may have suggested or may yet suggest.

I didn't see that poll on the general boards until it was closed.

Neither did anyone else, check the number of voters. I refuse to believe that poll had anything to do with this.

Neither did anyone else, check the number of voters. I refuse to believe that poll had anything to do with this.

Of course it didn't.

I didn't know about the poll either.


lol, I mean how were we supposed to know. hehe. It was posted in General.


Funny, when it was first locked...on the front portal page, 7 of the 10 new posts listed in the sidebar were from the OT section. Maybe it was that sort of thing that got us locked, hrm.

Sudden. Not a good move. If you think the OT forums hre are bad, you should check out the normal forums on evilgamer.net. Those guys are brutal. Removing this section is not a good thing for this site or the community that is here. Esecially not without any kind of warning. Just... here today, gone this afternoon? WTF is that about?

It's never a good sign when administrators start acting god-like on a whimsy.
rf -rf OT

Anyone remember the Bastard Operator from Hell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bastard_Operator_From_Hell)? LOL! I haven't thought of that in years.

Mine was called Miss Foxfyre.


Definitely reminds me of the ol' RTFM days, it does.

Although I understand, disagree, but understand, I think its pretty lame to revoke a forum without warning, espcially since it was only half a year ago that donations were asked for, and many donated, including myself. (not the only time mind you!)

Anyways, to the OT posters, was a fun time, if you guys set up another board, hit me a message (or message me for my email if you think you will), I'll be glad toss in 25 or so to get something started.

Don't go anywhere too fast, dwarf.

We will figure something out.

So deleting the forum was the only option? Not a 100 post minimum to view or moving it to the bottom of the list so new comers don't see it.

The priest's haven has an OT forum and sure could use some traffic ;)

hehe, that's funny.

Rob Peter to pay Paul.


Well, we got a few options that I can think of, in my present drunken state.

1) Pay Sobe extra money to keep OT open as it was.
2) Pay Sobe money to set up a special board just for us.
3) Set up our own board.
4) Use PH's OT forum for free, just for the fvk of it, until they close that.(your idea oddjob).

Any other ideas?

I like #3 the best, just need to work on getting new readers and posters and writers. Hopefully it could turn into a first rate blog/board site with outside readership. The technical, server, bandwidth, software issues would be the least of our worries, frankly. Getting people there, and staying there would be the issue.

Also,

How much is it going to cost to get a text dump of the OT forums, if you don't mind?

I have always been assured that the posts were going to be saved and accessible for the future. In my RTFM days, I saved all my posts and put them to disk, still have them in storage. But I got lax, obviously, and prematurely.

I would like all my posts, if it is not too much trouble. If I could get the rest of the OT'ers' too, that would be best.

God, you guys must really hate us.

Option 3 is looking more likely for me.

Well. Having only posted a few times in OT myself, i'd say it's hugely inconsiderate not to even warn people that it was going to happen. Be interested to know how many people donated to the site who only use(d) the OT forum.

It clearly stated that it was "off-topic" to EQ and if you didn't want to go in there, or didn't want to post in there, you didn't have to. I browsed it most days to see if any interesting topics were going.. That didn't stop me from finding any information on the rest of the board that i thought i'd need.

Well, since you asked.

I donated last October. When I could not afford it.

I can afford paying for a server and board now, of course.


Hell, I just spent 180 bucks for my first pack of smokeless cigarettes today. I stopped smoking on my birfday.

Any other ideas?Take over Unkempt Druids, which gets about one post every blue moon?

The problem with moving the OT forum elsewhere is that the majority of the traffic (and interesting posts) was generated by a very small number of people, so losing even a few of those would pretty much kill the exchange of ideas, unless you can attract new people.

so I am left to conclude that the main reason it was closed down was due to the perceived atmosphere, or "tone" of some of the postsI'm guessing they were just too cheap to pay for the bandwidth. Funny how they remembered us in the OT forum when donation season came around.

Also ironic how they're cutting off one of their main traffic generators to save money. That's so backwards.

Well guys, I do remember The Meadow, my daughter was a close friend of Lilly's and we enjoyed "the fluff". I haven't played EQ in quite a long time but this board was "home" and the OT was really the only place I could keep up with people I've been reading posts from for literally years.

I suppose this is another invitation to leave only without the Meadow's shade trees to offer respite. Thanks for all of the thought provoking posts, whether I agreed with someone or not it was always interesting reading the thoughts put forth. Thank you for the tech help when I need computer advice, you guys have saved me many times :).

Sobe, all the staff and mods thanks for many great years here. To those like Lotusfly who have already gone, you've been missed, toodlepip! You guys take good care.

http://www.colboard.com/index.php?sid=f5a52af944b305e77603ac49a63f5d9d

Colbertnation - mostly political converstions but it's got its very own Conspiracy theory section.

wtf. i didn't post in ot much but it was always a good read.
if it's $$$ thing, just come out and say what you need to keep it open.
OT, as far as i am concerned, is a big part of TDG.

It will be brought back. Please stand by. More to follow.

We're gonna change a few things around, don't worry, nothings been deleted.

Ya, considering the OT forum is what brought me back to actually playing EQ multiple times(and bringing me back here more often...)

And if you want to nuke a forum ... the ring

oh.. wait! =)

edit: bringing not being!

PS, my avatar is still the best ever, the only thing I've ever done worthwhile in photoshop!

Shuffle completed.

The General - OT section is now a merging of the old COH and "Other Games" threads and is considered a normal moderation forum (for those keeping track, the new "General - OT" is forum 30).

The old General - OT (forum 6) is now where you are, "Completely Off Topic". This forum has also been linked as a redirect from all of the other TDG boards in an attempt to generate a little more new blood.

All in all, Completely Off Topic is still a low moderation forum, however I think that many of the personal attacks are getting out of hand and completely unnecessary in many (most) of the conversations; yes TDG staff is included in this observation. So I'm not going sandbox you all and say "Play nice," but I think we can all do with a few less "You're an idiot" posts.

I would like to see a little more in-depth explanation about wtf happened here, mods.
Who decided to delete OT? Where on earth was this debated and is there a division in the admin group since Aidon was clueless? On what grounds was this decided? Why did you feel it was a good idea not to inform anyone? Are we now on borrowed time?

etc.

I'm with Tinsi here.

Combined?

Combined with what?

http://www.islandbreaststrokers.com/Back-Paddle.jpg


But at least they are doing it for breast cancer.

Rahjeir,

I'm serious. How much would you charge me for a text dump of the OT section DB.

Put it on disk and mail it to me?

It sure beats me beating the bandwidth and cpu all to hell searching and copying it from my house.

Oh, and Hi J.

Good to hear from you again.

I find it interesting that TDG would support a SoE like fix/change.
/shocked
The discussion present on these boards off topic AND EQ is what makes it worth taking time to read it every morning before shift start.
The lack of discussion reminded me of the SoE MoTP "fix".

Edit: Why not Lock polls made over a year ago so they quit popping up over and over and over?

Oh, and Hi J.

Good to hear from you again.

Heyhey)

I'm like employed again and what not, first job since november or so last year before my mom died, so been busy. Catch ya around on aim or whatnot sometime soonish maybe, I deleted it awhile back once I realized I had over ~500 people on my AIM list and talked to none of them.

Here's a link to it's new position.
http://thedruidsgrove.org/eq/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=6

It sounds like it is back and link to all the message forums so perhaps we'll get more new blood to argue with. :D All you regulars, I already know all your positions on everything and could practically post your responses for you, it's always fun to get new blood. Please just don't cuss them out before they've adjusted to us!

That's a relief! I was kicking myself for not archiving some of the more erudite and vigorous discussions on the OT. I participate in 2 other local boards as well, and have actually gone back to previous discussions at DruidsGrove in order to more thoroughly anticipate objections and flow of the new debate. (i.e. I cribbed from DG-OT! ) :p

Good to know it was just a drawn out relocation, rather than a permanent removal. But if I might run the risk of being self reflective for a second, perhaps we have allowed several discussions to trangress even the looser bounds that occur when you feel you "know" the person.

As an example of those looser bounds, I know of two brothers in RL that swap hair-raising insults back and forth, but yet they still do just about everything together, being in the same city, and if either one of them needs help, the other brother is willing to go to any length, work any hour, or sacrifice anything to help his brother out. You'd think they hated each other if you just walked in on them, but the reality is far from what it first appears.

After reading here for years, I assume it is like that here, people here in OT really, really feel strongly about their ideas and will defend them vigorously, without worrying too much about getting jerked up short. But maybe we shouldn't let every discussion degenerate into ad hominem at the end. . . maybe only 80%? :ohwell:

Well, since you asked.

I donated last October. When I could not afford it.

I can afford paying for a server and board now, of course.


Hell, I just spent 180 bucks for my first pack of smokeless cigarettes today. I stopped smoking on my birfday.

If I believed in Astrology, I'd say that explains an asston about both of us, Fy'yr =P

We Gemini's are ****-on insane.

Rahjeir, Stormhaven and Sobe are the admins of the global TDG site and EQ. There was no division within the admin ranks. There WAS a miscommunication within them, which was corrected.

Good to know it was just a drawn out relocation, rather than a permanent removal.
As near as I can tell the original posting indicated that it was a permanent removal. I just think someone interceded.

Fyyr, congrats on quitting smoking. I quit ages ago but damn, it was hard!

That's a relief! I was kicking myself for not archiving some of the more erudite and vigorous discussions on the OT. I participate in 2 other local boards as well, and have actually gone back to previous discussions at DruidsGrove in order to more thoroughly anticipate objections and flow of the new debate. (i.e. I cribbed from DG-OT! ) :p

Good to know it was just a drawn out relocation, rather than a permanent removal. But if I might run the risk of being self reflective for a second, perhaps we have allowed several discussions to trangress even the looser bounds that occur when you feel you "know" the person.

As an example of those looser bounds, I know of two brothers in RL that swap hair-raising insults back and forth, but yet they still do just about everything together, being in the same city, and if either one of them needs help, the other brother is willing to go to any length, work any hour, or sacrifice anything to help his brother out. You'd think they hated each other if you just walked in on them, but the reality is far from what it first appears.

After reading here for years, I assume it is like that here, people here in OT really, really feel strongly about their ideas and will defend them vigorously, without worrying too much about getting jerked up short. But maybe we shouldn't let every discussion degenerate into ad hominem at the end. . . maybe only 80%? :ohwell:

I will attempt to refrain from reminding everyone of their intellectual deficiencies and sexual inadquacies more than once or twice per post, I suppose /sigh

Astrologically speaking, Mercuary went retrograde on June 15th and still stay that way till July 9th.

-Fenier

You're speaking greek to me =P

But June 15 was my B-day =D

You're speaking greek to me =P

But June 15 was my B-day =D

Not my favorite explanation, but here http://www.karmastrology.com/mercrx.shtml

I should note that it tends to effect people born under the signs of Gemini and Virgo a bit more then most due to the fact that Mercury is the ruling planet for those signs.

Mecury rules, baby! I always like a guy with winged sandals.

Rahjeir, Stormhaven and Sobe are the admins of the global TDG site and EQ. There was no division within the admin ranks. There WAS a miscommunication within them, which was corrected.

..and the rest of the questions? To be answered later?

Thank you for bringing the OT board back.

A miscommunication between PM's occurred. Simply put that is what occurred.

As for being the Owner of this site, we have admitted a mistake occurred. Quite frankly that's all we can give you as information; and you have to be satisfied in the fact that you spoke out and a realization of the mistake was identified and we discussed it on the phone between the 3 of us. A resolution was found and this is what we are going with.

As for demanding more information.. that's about it.

Sobe
Site Owner/Admin

Happy Birthday, Aidon.

ty ty

Thank you for bringing the OT board back.

I see they actually brought 2 of them back.


I only thought that there was one.

Happy birthday, old'n'bitter hobbit thing :)

Send me mead and a horned viking helm for my b-day Viking Hobbit!

Happy Birthday Aidon :).

So I passed on to Jinjre your "Cuss her out for 3 seconds for old times sake" and she looked at me puzzled and said "why?" I guess she's forgotten already!

..Because that's what I do!