http://www.cnn.com/2007/HEALTH/conditions/10/16/mrsa.cdc.ap/index.html
CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- More than 90,000 Americans get potentially deadly infections each year from a drug-resistant staph "superbug," the government reported Tuesday in its first overall estimate of invasive disease caused by the germ.

Deaths tied to these infections may exceed those caused by AIDS, said one public health expert commenting on the new study. The report shows just how far one form of the staph germ has spread beyond its traditional hospital setting.
But let's continue to use antibiotics in animal feed, in consumer products and over prescribe them, because evolution is wrong and corporate profits are more important than science which can't 'prove' a theory.

Remember, ConAgra is really looking out for the interests of us all when they pack those cows, pigs and chickens into the barn and feed them antibiotics to keep them alive, because we all know that organic farming, free range farming or just plain giving them enough space to breath would result in food prices we can't afford, or at least lower profits.

Get used to it; MRSA is here to stay. As MRSA becomes more and more common in the general population, and vancomycin is prescribed more and more often, the real superbugs such as VRSA and VRE will take over.

And then, absent new medical discoveries, the age of antibiotics will be over, and the age of soap will experience a renaissance.

By the way, it's misleading to compare deaths "tied to" MRSA and AIDS deaths, because MRSA deaths tend to occur to patients in hospitals who are already sick, and might have died anyway, or from another infection. That's not so with AIDS.

And lets not fund the investigation into new antibiotics because we wouldn't want to raise taxes on the rich. Drug companies aren't developing new antibiotics because they make a lot more money selling people "lifestyle" drugs instead.

And lets not fund the investigation into new antibiotics because we wouldn't want to raise taxes on the rich.Working on new antibiotics without solving the problems that led to the current crisis would be the height of foolishness.

Stopping antibiotic abuse should be the first priority, since we already know how to do that.

Even the consumer can do it. You know all that money you pour into the domesticated animal industry? That money supports antibiotic abuse, the proliferation of GMOs, and food poisoning outbreaks (in addition, of course, to extreme animal cruelty).Drug companies aren't developing new antibiotics because they make a lot more money selling people "lifestyle" drugs instead.I don't know about that. Antibiotics are so commonly needed, that they could be a cash cow for a drug company that developed the only one that works on a major bacterial strain.

Ah, I am so proud. A healthy dislike and distrust for corporations.

No really. The only sarcasm part was the degree of pride. I don't trust corporations, either.

On the antibacterial problem. Perhaps they should get into nano biotechnology. There is a proposal I read for a nano device that acts much like a white blood cell. I'm going to screw this up and make it sound a lot more alarmist than it is but it basically had sensors on the outside (much like real cells) to identify pathogenic particles (bacteria, virii) and if one was detected, it moved it to the processing part of the machine which would break the particle down to its basic components and spit those back out for absorbtion. Kind of like a white blood cell does anyway.

You don't become resistant to the trash compactor.

Now, don't go asking me questions about it. I am looking for the article again but probably will give up looking for it and I'm not an expert on it.

I am also already aware of the grey goo scare (we aren't green goo from the bacteria but...)

I am aware of ludites automatically hating it because, well ludites hate technological change.

I'm just putting it here as an interesting thing to see.

AHA, Microbivores or Phagocytes (http://www.rfreitas.com/Nano/Microbivores.htm). If you want to talk to or question an expert on medical nano robotics or just tell him he's full of crap, talk to Robert A. Freitas Jr. (http://www.rfreitas.com/) of the Zyvex Corp. and The Institute of Molecular Manufacturing.

Talk to me if you want to know about target drones.

You know, if we could just invent the f'in tricorder, we wouldn't have to worry about any of this ****.

We'd have to call all Doctors "Bones" though.

I thought that we could just wave a salt shaker over someone.

Antibiotics will always change the bugs they work on. It was noted way back in the 1940's when antibiotics came into use. It is simply a fact of life. That's like saying all people should stop having sex until you find a cure for AIDs. There are plenty of things that antibiotics can be derived from and if we have a steady supply of them coming in, eventually bugs will stop being resistant to the old ones (I'd imagine) and you can recycle them.

Antibiotics will always change the bugs they work on. It was noted way back in the 1940's when antibiotics came into use. It is simply a fact of life.At issue is the rate of change. Had we been responsible from the start, we probably would not have faced these issues for centuries.There are plenty of things that antibiotics can be derived fromYes. And we're causing them to become extinct, to the tune of a minimum of several species per day.

Come on, remember evolution is false. These deaths due to MRSA are just a liberal falsehood.

In fact, I'm going to call up the family of that kid who just died from getting it in school and tell them off. How dare they agree to let the death of their son (which I'm sure was due to terrorists, or at least marijuana) be used to further the "science" of evolution.

Bacteria can not mutate, nothing can evolve. God said so, it's in the Bible.

(That was sarcasm, in case you didn't get it.)

Come on, remember evolution is false. These deaths due to MRSA are just a liberal falsehood.Nah, it's "god" punishing us for allowing gays to marry and for not shooting down every Mexican who tries to cross the border illegally.

I went to a seminar where the ID Doc for UC Med Center told a case study about a gentleman who was injured, shot in the leg during WW2.

He actually had a strain of Staph that was growing in his bone tissue for over 60 years, and it was still actually susceptible to regular old penicillin.

Interesting story.

Staph has been resistant to penicillin since about 1950.

What is even more interesting is the amount of information that the medical and scientific community does NOT tell you about MRSA. Well, everyone but me, of course. Madie is truthful too, but I have not seen her post is quite some time.

Nah, it's "god" punishing us for allowing gays to marry and for not shooting down every Mexican who tries to cross the border illegally.

The first man with MRSA was a man being treated with antibiotics for years because he had AIDs.

The first man with VRE was a man being treated for years with antibiotics because he had AIDs.

The first man with VRSA was a man being treated for years with antibiotics for years because he had AIDs.

If you have an intact immune system, you will generally be able to keep Staph in check(just like they did 100 years ago), because it is a normal flora species. If you are immune compromised, you obviously need antibiotics to keep it in check. When all the Staph is resistant, it will generally kill you when you do not have an intact immune system, ie, if you have AIDs, transplant recipient, or a cancer patient undergoing therapy. Those are the people who die from Staph, and who will die from it. The "worse than AIDs thing" is just relatively stupid, for it will be mostly AIDs patients who will be dying from it(if not from all the other diseases they will get).

Bacteriophage, BEST, and further evolved bacteria garnered antibiotics are all being worked on right now. All of the antibiotics we use now essentially have come from bacteria toxins used by bacteria to kill other bacteria. In theory they can be "trained" to evolve to kill any new strains. Time is the issue.

In less than 10 years, everyone will be host to MRSA, it is really just a matter of time. It can live on dry surfaces for over 24 hours, 14 days on wet surfaces. It will never go away. You are passing it now just by shaking people's hands and using towel dispensers after washing them, using the handle or knob on the door to get out of the restroom is transmitting MRSA.

The first man with MRSA was a man being treated with antibiotics for years because he had AIDs.

The first man with VRE was a man being treated for years with antibiotics because he had AIDs.

The first man with VRSA was a man being treated for years with antibiotics for years because he had AIDs.
And this means?

If God is punishing people for being gay, he seems to be using the nuclear weapon method, because there sure are a lot of collateral casualties.

Because, it seems that not only being gay is a sin, but also using IV drugs. So is being a hemophiliac before the Red Cross heat treated their medicine. So is being heterosexual, if you have sex with someone with AIDS.

Ashton Bonds was a senior at Staunton River High School in Moneta, Virginia, who was diagnosed with MRSA. He died. So, he had AIDS? The press doesn't say he did and they tend to report that kind of stuff.

It's funny how God works, because all sorts of evil types never get AIDS. Or die. Bin Ladin is still alive, maybe killing thousands of people isn't enough, I guess he needs to have sex with another man, because that is far worse, right?

The reason that people with AIDS get this kind of stuff is because they have a compromised immune system. So do people being treated for cancer and those with bone marrow transplants. I guess God hates cancer patients too?

It means that you are afraid of the truth.

That's what it means. Or can't handle it, either way.

MRSA did not come from animal feed, or Doctor Feelgoods, or nurses nails.

It came from treating legitimately those with no immune systems to combat the disease. Antibiotics given to people for years, MRSA was grown in AIDs patients during the 80s. A peak time of the evangelical god's disease mob.

It probably also means that the public is not ready for the truth, either.

God is not sparing the good and righteous from MRSA, is HE? Seems good turnabout, perhaps. Will they learn their lesson, not if they don't know the truth.

They are doing the exact same thing now, they did then, with Guardasil.

Ashton Bonds was a senior at Staunton River High School in Moneta, Virginia, who was diagnosed with MRSA.

Maybe you are not ready to hear this, I don't care.

Every doctor, pharmacist, nurse, and healthcare worker in the US HAS MRSA. Everyone who has ever, ever worked in a hospital has it.

Virtually every person who has spent 5 days in a hospital has it.

Every family member of any of these people has it.

In all probability, YOU already have it. Panamah definitely has it. I do. Madie does.

Once you get it, you can never get rid of it, it lives on you, and in you. You can keep it at bay if it is pathogenic, but is lives on you normally just like grass lives on the dirt in front of your place you live. Staph is a normal bacteria that lives on you, you have had Staph on you the second your placenta split, you just now have a specie which does not die with any form of penicillin. When I shake your hand I can give it to you, but since you probably already have it, do you really care?

The first man with MRSA was a man being treated with antibiotics for years because he had AIDs.

The first man with VRE was a man being treated for years with antibiotics because he had AIDs.

The first man with VRSA was a man being treated for years with antibiotics for years because he had AIDs.You never give up, do you?

If three AIDS patients were the sole sources of MRSA, and nothing else we were doing had any effect on its evolution, it would be overrun by normal staph and go extinct soon after the patients died. After all, MRSA's only evolutionary advantage is its resistance to a particular toxin, otherwise it would have evolved long ago.

MRSA evolved on account of repeated, global pressures to evolve, not on account of three isolated incidents. Right now we have billions of petri dishes filled with bacteria, antibiotics, and food, and you're telling me none of these are going to evolve antibiotic resistance?

Who said 'sole' besides you?

They were the first. If you don't accept them merely as patient 'zeros', at least use them as the model for the creation of the species.

Not pig farmers in Australia(which is completely unlikely).

I don't even know why you are debating this issue. They were. It is.

It is not even theory.

They were. It is.

The fact that you are afraid to admit it, or talk about, is TELLING, though.

and you're telling me none of these are going to evolve antibiotic resistance?

Don't be retarded.

How do we treat MRSA today. Um, we give all of them Vancomycin.

Duh.

Making more strains. Every day. Right now. Different strains of MRSA and VRSA.

Treating people with the bacteria. Making more of them, every day. We are growing them now, in people like the kid who died, but in those who don't die. Making more, by giving antibiotics to people who already have Resistant SA.

Duh.

Where is your disconnect?

They were the first.Let's say, for the sake of argument, you're right, and the three immune compromised guys who you assume had AIDS were the first patients.

So what?

Without additional evolutionary pressures, MRSA would have spread never to the general population and would have never bred more successfully than ordinary bacteria. And if those three patients had never existed, MRSA would have evolved from the same external pressures. When you have billions of petri dishes with bacteria, food, and antibiotics, evolved resistance is inevitable.

Who cares who was first? What matters is why they weren't the last.

Don't be retarded.

How do we treat MRSA today. Um, we give all of them Vancomycin.

Duh.

Making more strains. Every day. Right now. Different strains of MRSA and VRSA.Now take your theory one step down the antibiotic ladder and you can understand why antibiotic abuse contributes to MRSA's evolution in the first place.

So what?



Truth matters to some people.

Obviously not to you, I suppose.


I mean, looking at this as public health policy or epidemiologically, you really, obviously now, providing your ignorance, and clinging to that ignorance, really should not have any say in the matter, should you?

You are just the herd. That we all treat. Best the sheep don't know what is up the ramp, it is becoming obviouser and obviouser.

Now take your theory one step down the antibiotic ladder and you can understand why antibiotic abuse contributes to MRSA's evolution in the first place.

That is your problem, you are saying that using antibiotics to treat people is abuse.

You are confused.

Who cares who was first? What matters is why they weren't the last.

Because you want antibiotics, and need antibiotics to live?

Truth matters to some people.

Obviously not to you, I suppose.Because it's all academic and has no relevance to what matters, which is how we can treat the condition today.

Some African eating bushmeat in the 50s was probably the first human to contract HIV. Who cares? He has been dead for a long time, and he isn't the one who might transmit it today.

That is your problem, you are saying that using antibiotics to treat people is abuse.I was referring to the horrid domesticated animal industry, which keeps animals crammed in such filthy conditions that they have to be constantly pumped up with antibiotics just so they don't all succumb to infections.

Billions of animals all over the world, right now, are being constantly pumped with antibiotics. Countless farmers are in close contact with those animals. And the animals' carcasses and excretions end up on your dinner plate.

I'm not confused. You are just ignorant.

Because it's all academic and has no relevance to what matters, which is how we can treat the condition today.

You are SO fn short sighted, you can't see your nose.

It is how it was made, it will be how those that are made for the next 20 years will be made. 40 years, unless we learn from how they actually became, and prevent the next bugs from becoming.

Do you really think that this is the only one we are making? We are making new ones, more virulent ones RIGHT NOW. Because we are living YOUR lie.

Myopia.

And pure ignorance. Intentional ignorance.

was referring to the horrid domesticated animal industry, which keeps animals crammed in such filthy conditions that they have to be constantly pumped up with antibiotics just so they don't all succumb to infections.

That is a different problem. They are only connected because you love your red herrings, and want them connected.

Billions of animals all over the world, right now, are being constantly pumped with antibiotics. Countless farmers are in close contact with those animals. And the animals' carcasses and excretions end up on your dinner plate.

That is a different problem.

I'm not confused. You are just ignorant.

It is a red herring. Fix your own problem by yourself, with its own means.

Don't bootstrap MRSA to your Vegan Ecoterrorist agenda.

MRSA was made in a hospital, not in a barnyard, not in a dairy. And a spotted owl can live just nicely on a telephone pole in a box, **** your red herring agenda.

You are SO fn short sighted, you can't see your nose.

It is how it was made, it will be how those that are made for the next 20 years will be made. 40 years, unless we learn from how they actually became, and prevent the next bugs from becoming.On the top of short-sightedness:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antibiotic_resistanceCurrently, it is estimated that greater than 55% of the antibiotics used in the US are given to food animals (e.g. chickens, pigs and cattle) in the absence of disease. Antibiotic use in food animal production has been associated with the emergence of antibiotic-resistant strains of bacteria including Salmonella, Campylobacter, Escherichia coli and Enterococcus, among others. There is substantial evidence from the US and European Union that these resistant bacteria cause antibiotic-resistant infections in humans.Gay men aren't the only incubators you have to worry about.

Fix that problem on its own.

It is a different problem.

It is not where MRSA, or virtually any of the future resistance HUMAN pathogens are going to come from.

Tying them together confuses the issue, and prevents real progress. Your obstinateness only belies that it is intentional.

Fix that problem on its own.

It is a different problem.

It is not where MRSA, or virtually any of the future resistance HUMAN pathogens are going to come from.Wrong.

http://www.fathom.com/course/21701753/session4.html<b>Antibiotics in animals</b>
One factor that I am going to place some emphasis is the use of antibiotic in the food industry. Here is a list of several antibiotics that have played an extremely important role in resistance occurring through this modality.

* Avoparcin in Europe.
* Virginiamycin in the United States.
* Ceftiofur, which is a third generation cephalosporin, in the United States.
* Penicillins and tetracyclines in the United States.
* Quinolones in the United States.

These are all antibiotics that are used in humans as well.

Here is a bit of an overview. The food industry use of antimicrobials in animals consists of about 40-50 percent of all antibiotics used in this country. Cleverly, the antibiotics are called "antimicrobial growth promoters," or AGPs. The reason why they are so desirable is that they increase growth and "feed efficiency" in animals by 2-4 percent. If you are a livestock farmer, 2-4 percent may be more than even your profit margin. To the farmer, there could be perceived negative ramifications to not using antimicrobial growth promoters.

The first grim tale here is with regards to avoparcin. Avoparcin is a glycopeptide related to vancomycin. You might recall the discussion in an earlier session about vancomycin-resistant enterococcus (VRE) and the fear of vancomycin-resistant Staph (VRSA). Avoparcin is a drug very similar to vancomycin and it was used in animals in Europe for a few years. The European Union did ban it in 1997; however, by the time it was banned, avoparcin use had resulted in colonization rates of VREs as high as 12-28 percent in a healthy population of Belgians. Now the 12-28 percent resistance may not mean much, but if you compare that with a healthy US population, the colonization rate is about 1 percent. That is extremely high. The good news is that there has been some decline in the rates in Belgium and other areas of Europe since the banning of avoparcin by the European Union.

The next AGP on the list is virginiamycin. Now virginiamycin is related to Synercid, which is an antibiotic that was just marketed for VRE in the US in 1999, and this is after we went 10 years in US hospitals without having any antibiotics to treat VRE. Yet here it is, literally, out in our food chain. Virginiamycin has been used in US animals since 1974. It was banned by the European Union in 1998. One study by L. Clifford McDonald that appeared in The New England Journal of Medicine in 2001 found that about 17-87 percent of chickens tested in supermarkets in four different states, harbored this streptogram or quinupristin/dalfopristin-resistant organism.
nolones in the food chain as well. A couple of derivatives of cipro, marketed by Abbott and Bayer Corp., have been used in veterinary medicine as an AGP for meat and poultry in the United States for many years. There has been an increase in fluoroquinolone or cipro-resistant strains of both Salmonella and Campylobacter that have emerged in recent years. Now in 1999 in the United States, there were 1.4 million cases of Salmonella poisoning. Out of these, most are self-limiting and go away within five to seven days, even if not treated. But in 3-10 percent of these cases, especially those found in immunosuppressed or very sick patients, they actually become full-blown bacteremias and can be deadly. In fact, there have been deaths that have occurred as a result of multi-resistant Salmonella infections. Campylobacter is even more common. We had 2.4 million cases of Campylobacter poisoning, usually originating from poultry, reported in the United States in 1999.

In 1997-1998, cipro was the drug of choice for Campylobacter, but resistance to the drug rose to 13.4 percent. In Sweden, for example, resistance grew from less than 2 percent to 29 percent in just a few years, and in Spain in 1989 it accelerated from 7.5 percent resistance to 50 percent resistance. According to one study, all these cases were attributed to the use of the other quinolone antibiotics that are related to cipro in poultry feed. No Fyyr, gay men are not solely responsible for today's antibiotic resistance, and won't be for tomorrow's either.

You know, I have held off posting to this thread because this whole media scare thing has really screwed with some of my patients and it is so frustrating to me that all of a sudden this is a huge issue.

MRSA has been around for 50 years. It is not new, it is not going away and like Fyyr said - it was born in the hospitals and it lives EVERYWHERE!!!

I have known I am colonizied with MRSA since 1991. I have never been sick with MRSA, I contacted it while working in an ICU. I agree with Fyyr that probably every health care worker that has ever worked in a hospital or nursing home setting is colonized with it. It used to be, if you had MRSA you were isolated and nursing homes would not take the patient. Now, it is expected that every nursing home resident is colonized.

Just last week, I had a patient who had an elbow and carpal tunnel surgery done 4 months ago and was progressing great!! On October 5, 2007 he nicked his finger working on his Harley and over the weekend his finger swelled up with a huge infection. He had to have an I&D of the finger - be in the hospital for 5 days and now is receiving home IV antibiotics (Vanc) for his infection. He was told it was MRSA. He is now convinced he got it from the original surgery because of that damned TV show about MRSA. I have not been able to convince him that MRSA lives everywhere and he did not contact it from the Hand Center during his original surgery.

The kid that died from MRSA is a sad case, but it is an unusual one. Most people who die from MRSA have some other thing going on - immunocompromised or something else. The fact that people are so scared now of MRSA is just proof of the power of the media.

While I am ranting about the media and its power to scare people - what about this whole cold and cough medicine scare to parents now??? So 100 kids have died in 50 years from overdose?????? That number is miniscule and to make parents think they are killing their kids with Tylenol or Advil is ridiculous!

Do I think antibiotic use should be curtailed in animals... yes. Do I think antibiotic use in animals has contributed to the resistant strains of Staph.. maybe. But I agree with Fyyr - we need to fix the problem in the health care setting. It is a different issue all together.

No Fyyr, gay men are not solely responsible for today's antibiotic resistance, and won't be for tomorrow's either.

What do gay men have to do with this discussion?

Are you being intentionally obtuse, or is it accidental?

French Clay Can Kill MRSA And 'Flesh-Eating' Bacteria (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/10/071025120514.htm)
ScienceDaily (Oct. 26, 2007) — French clay that kills several kinds of disease-causing bacteria is at the forefront of new research into age-old, nearly forgotten, but surprisingly potent cures. Among the malevolent bacteria that a French clay has been shown to fight is a "flesh-eating" bug (M. ulcerans) on the rise in Africa and the germ called MRSA, which was blamed for the recent deaths of two children in Virginia and Mississippi.

http://www.webmd.com/a-to-z-guides/features/5-mrsa-hot-spots?src=RSS_PUBLIC