So... where is everyone? I know I don't post often... but I so enjoy reading all the posts to this forum. I am assuming everyone is just busy with preparations for Thanksgiving. But SURELY there is some controversial news out there that Tuda and Fyyr or maybe Eri and Aidon could discuss!!!

LOL:whistle:

Wishing everyone a Happy Thanksgiving and patiently awaiting the next debate :)

~Madie

The cost of peanut oil has increased, 2 years ago when I deep fried my birds I only spent 20 bucks, this year it was almost 40!

I blame Bush.

The cost of peanut oil has increased, 2 years ago when I deep fried my birds I only spent 20 bucks, this year it was almost 40!

I blame Bush.

Maybe we should blame the Chinese. Or maybe the Iranians. There are more of them and it seems to be popular to blame them for anything that is convenient to distract the mindless masses?


Eri

Maybe we should blame the Chinese. Or maybe the Iranians. There are more of them and it seems to be popular to blame them for anything that is convenient to distract the mindless masses?


Eri

Pffft. If said oil had lead in it i'd blame the Chinese, I cant think of anything even midly witty off the top of my head about the Iranians.

Sadly blame Bush has become a ready response of late, even in jest.

Sadly blame Bush has become a ready response of late, even in jest.

For that, I blame Bush.

This could become very recursive!

I'm having a small, kind of sad Thanksgiving this year. Sad because my sister is leaving for China that day and sad because my Mom is in really poor health and probably won't really be able to eat much. I'm packing the lunch up and taking it to her in the nursing home. Last year she was well enough we could bring her to my house for it, but not even close this year.

I hope every has a really nice Thanksgiving!

Oh... btw the shopping season seems to have started early this year. I headed out to shop at Costco and got their just before they opened. It was packed outside! About 75 people waiting to get in. Then I went to Trader Joe's around 2pm, people should have been working but they were shopping, and it was a zoo. I was about to ram my cart around, the people were making me so mad by blocking aisles with their carts. Why do people do that? They're too stupid to realize that they should move their cart off to the side while they pause?

Anyway, it used to be my No-Shopping period started on the Friday after Thanksgiving but it looks like I need to move it up.

The cost of peanut oil has increased, 2 years ago when I deep fried my birds I only spent 20 bucks, this year it was almost 40!

I blame Bush.

I noticed that. The oil fryers themselves are going for less than the oil, like 25 30 bucks now.

I am sorry to hear that about your mom, Pan.

My condolences.

I was about to ram my cart around,

If people stop their carts in the middle of the aisle like that, I ram 'em.

"Ram-ming speed!" is their fair warning.

But SURELY there is some controversial news out there that Eri could discuss!!!

This is probably not going to raise much eyebrows here, though I imagine it must be unwelcome news in certain circles outside of these boards.

I read a news article today reporting that research by the University of Virginia (and that alone is worth a snicker or two...) found that teenagers who started with sex at a younger age are less likely to get in trouble with the law later. Contrary to popular conservative believe that has it that teenager having sex is a sure sign of them being lawless and about to get arrested for all kinds of crimes and misdemeanours.

Of course I have no idea how reliable the study was since the journalist neglected to supply a reference to the publication. He only mentioned that it focussed on twins rather than on the usual 'X pct of the teenagers who are arrested have sex, as opposed to Y pct of the teenagers who are not arrested...'


Eri

here is something controversial, I couldn't get tickets to see Paramore tomorrow because it sold out..(they are from Nashville afterall, home for the holidays). So, I am going to see Enchanted...... alone..... a single male going to a romantic comedy.... alone.... to see a chick flick movie..... alone... although, you might be surprised how many phone numbers I can wrack up doing that....... or some girl to snuggle up with during the movie.....

"quote, I read a news article today reporting that research by the University of Virginia (and that alone is worth a snicker or two...) found that teenagers who started with sex at a younger age are less likely to get in trouble with the law later. "

Worked for me when I was younger, did all my youthful indisrections when I was younger.... grew up just fine, no trouble besides an occasional speeding ticket, public indecentcy charge(I have a hard time keeping on clothes) here and there.

Or you could see Hitman.

Worked for me when I was younger, did all my youthful indisrections when I was younger.... grew up just fine, no trouble besides an occasional speeding ticket, public indecentcy charge(I have a hard time keeping on clothes) here and there.

I guess it depends on what you consider just fine... I mean you just admitted you are a single man going alone to a chick flick... :whistle:

the people were making me so mad by blocking aisles with their carts. Why do people do that? They're too stupid to realize that they should move their cart off to the side while they pause?

This is something I and others from here who lived in the San Francisco area noted as a largely (so far) California phenomena. The aisles are narrow already there but also people are oblivious to their surroundings. It extends beyond the grocery store but that is where the situation presents itself most readily. The blocking of aisles.

It rarely happens anywhere else I've been. I'm sure it must but I can't think of an example right now.

Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

Pan, I'm sorry to hear about your Mom, I hope she is feeling better tomorrow and is able to enjoy the lunch you take up there, wishing you all a good day.

But SURELY there is some controversial news out there that Tuda and Fyyr or maybe Eri and Aidon could discuss!!!


Actually, I have an argument for you.

Time.

I state that there really is no 2400.
After 23:59:59 the time is 00:00:00(which we state as 2400).
The very next minute after that is 0001. Or 00:01:00.

That is to say, there is because there is no 24:00:01, nor 24:01:00, or 2410, or 2430, or 2459, that 2400 itself is not really a valid time.

The start of the new day is, 0000(as nurses should happen to write it).

It has been argued by some of my coworkers that if a med is to be given at Midnight, that the time to note, to document is 0001. I state that that is wrong, they state that it is correct, and that they have been rigorously trained and educated to not write 0000 as the time that the med is given. For they state that, that is not a 'real' time.

I state that in actuality, that it is the 2400, that is not the real time.

There is a 0001, and a 0030, and a 0059. Conversely, there should be a 0000, and NOT a 2400.

Whose side are you one? Pick a side. /smile /grin. <or tell me I am wrong and why>

It depends if you consider midnight to be part of the previous day or the following day. I would consider it to be part of the previous day so 24:00:00 is the very end of the night. I would consider any fraction of a second after midnight to be part of the following morning.

You're suggesting that what we'd commonly call 'midnight on Thursday' is actually the very first instant of Friday, which isn't a very intuitive result.

We used to deal with that in the miltiary particularly during manuveurs, we would often leave out at zero hundred hours, or 2400 hours. Usually do to personal perference, but, do to the hours system setup, it is 2400 hours for one minute, but, by seconds and miliseconds it is only for a brief time frame before it rolls over to 0000:00.00000000000000000001, so, often in the medical profession, it is rounded up.

Most of the time in the miltiary we deal in the 15 minutes increments, minus a few situations. But, I do see your point for accuracy reasons, that one second adds up quick, although, it seems so trivial. In the business production sense, for cyclic rates, that one second means an awful lot into algorithms. For example, I had an issue with management, why we were not reaching the proper cycle times, but, were reaching the proper production numbers within the time frame allotted. My argument, in a production situtation, it was virtually impossible to add up all the unneccessary downtimes, necessary downtimes, accurately, to the second and even minutes.

I worked the night shift for 10 years in the ICU and I always had this same argument with the nurses I worked with. Some of them could not get it into their heads that 12:00 p.m. was noon.... /boggle

When I had to chart meds given (this was in the old days of paper charting) I always charted it as 00:00. In the old days, before computer generated MARs - I would write the time to give meds that way too. That is to say if a med was to be given Q6H at 6 and 12 - I would mark the sheet 00:00, 06:00, 12:00, and 18:00.

So.. I agree with you Fyyr... 2400 does not exsist, except in some of the minds of people who cannot grasp a 24 hour clock!!

:banghead: :rolleyes:

So.. I agree with you Fyyr... 2400 does not exsist, except in some of the minds of people who cannot grasp a 24 hour clock!!


Scary as it may seem, I too agree with Fyyr ...
In fact, clocks over here that display 24 hours instead of only 12 do flip from 23:59 to 00:00

I also would not mind if we do away globally with that 12 hour clock idea once and for all. Then those of us not growing up in the USA can finally figure out at what time the servers reset and at what time they are expected to be up again ...


Eri

I also would not mind if we do away globally with that 12 hour clock idea once and for all. Then those of us not growing up in the USA can finally figure out at what time the servers reset and at what time they are expected to be up again ...

Eri

Not to fast Erianaiel!

The US in general isn't at the point to understand what is a liter, a meter.... :biggrin:

The 24:00 and 00:00 thing is a regional thing, depanding to who I talk it change. But with the computer, it may come to a normalisation soon. Witch one will "win" I don't know, but recall that only computer begin to count at 0.:assimilat

Also on the low level of discussion in this forum, is may be relate to the low level of new blood, like all "old" group, we are begining to know eatch other (ex: if someone make a post about the next judgeent of the US suprem court about the right of having arms, I am betting that most of us can say what side eatch of us will take.

Also personnaly when a topic begin to be an two way discussion between Tuda and Fyyr (like 6+ posts in row with only them), I tend to pass their posts unless someone else quote them (it look like 2 monologues).

Eridalafar

Not to fast Erianaiel!

The US in general isn't at the point to understand what is a liter, a meter.... :biggrin:


I was not quite that optimistic no. But dropping the whole AM PM thingy might not be immediately resisted. I hope...


The 24:00 and 00:00 thing is a regional thing, depanding to who I talk it change. But with the computer, it may come to a normalisation soon. Witch one will "win" I don't know, but recall that only computer begin to count at 0.

*shrugs* I would not be surprised if the USA decides to adopt the 24 hour clock and then sets it up to be different from the one the rest of the world uses, no


Also on the low level of discussion in this forum, is may be relate to the low level of new blood, like all "old" group, we are begining to know eatch other (ex: if someone make a post about the next judgeent of the US suprem court about the right of having arms, I am betting that most of us can say what side eatch of us will take.

Also personnaly when a topic begin to be an two way discussion between Tuda and Fyyr (like 6+ posts in row with only them), I tend to pass their posts unless someone else quote them (it look like 2 monologues).


I admit that I got scared off some of the later discussions for much the same reason. It just seems a bit of going back and forth without either side listening, or responding, to the other's arguments.
Maybe what we need is not more controversy, but something we can actually agree on?


Eri

The 24:00 and 00:00 thing is a regional thing, depanding to who I talk it change.

It also depends on your profession. If you work in the train industry, say, then a day's timetable may run past midnight and the last arrivals could be at 24:00, 24:25, 25:22, or even later. A daily service doesn't fit neatly into the conventional 24-hour clock.

Some of them could not get it into their heads that 12:00 p.m. was noon

post meridiem, after midday
ante meridiem, before midday

12 noon is meridiem, if only for a pico second. If you tied my hands, and forced me to make a choice, I would write 12 m.

But that one is too hard to work on, there is no convention for that unless one is an astronomer, so I let it go. I had nurses in following shifts actually overwrite my 0000 with 0001, so obviously it is bigger stickler or pet peeve for them.


Anyway, it is fun and safe little debate. And the cost of making no converts approaches nothing.

Maybe what we need is not more controversy, but something we can actually agree on?


Eri

Well, I sort of disagree. I just have not run across any news articles lately which are new for discussion.

I mean I thought about posting about the 8 and 9 year old boys who had sex with the 13 year old girl and have been charged with rape. But I don't think our discussion would bring anything new to light on the topic.

Or that Iraqis refugees are returning to Baghdad in record numbers. Nothing new there to discuss.

I think the reason why the discussions have slowed down is because there is not enough controversy, not too much.

Additionally, a mea culpa of sorts, I do not wish to scare away other posters with my tennis matches with Tuda. I don't mean to do that, but I am glad that you both mentioned that, I will take that into account next time Tuda and I start rallying like that.

Its been a pretty slow period, events have happened but alot of people I normally debate with (myself included on some subjects) are just burned out and taking a break, kinda overloaded with the same crap every single day. It takes a truely unique event to get me really discussing, or something mundane that doesnt require deep thought.

I work audit, so I play by the rules that midnight and well beyond are the previous day. Its not the next day until I damn well say it is, and the hotel agrees with me! I CONTROL THE DAY OF THE WEEK FOR MY WORK! ULTIMATE POWER!!

Btw the turkeys were GREAT! As much as I spent on oil I bought 3 birds, did 2 for myself and 1 for a friend whos never had, and family brought some as well. When I left that night bird 6 was being cooked. <3 Deep Fried Turkey!

I had nurses in following shifts actually overwrite my 0000 with 0001, so obviously it is bigger stickler or pet peeve for them.

You realize that is illegal and they should not be doing that! When, in my calmer moments during these discussions at work, I would ask my co-workers - "Do you know at I mean when I write 00:00?" They would always say yeah but... then I would just say, fine, if you can figure it out, I am sure everyone else can too.

And on the topic of debates, I agree with everyone here - sometimes the same ol' same ol' gets boring and we can pretty much predict what Tuda and Fyyr are going to have to say about it - still... I have found I still enjoy intelligent banter. I have learned a lot about many things I had no idea about!! That is generally why I tend to stay out of the conversations, if I don't know much about the subject, I would prefer just to watch and learn rather than end up on the pointy end of one of Tuda's or Aidon's stick!! LOL :)

I hope everyone had a great Turkey Day - mine was fantastic - loads of food, tons of family, and wonderful left overs for days!

Well, I sort of disagree. I just have not run across any news articles lately which are new for discussion.

I mean I thought about posting about the 8 and 9 year old boys who had sex with the 13 year old girl and have been charged with rape. But I don't think our discussion would bring anything new to light on the topic.

No. I think we trampled that one into the ground quite thoroughly in previous incarnations.


Or that Iraqis refugees are returning to Baghdad in record numbers. Nothing new there to discuss.


Perhaps not something controversial, but I do consider it, cautiously, to be good news. It may mean that Iraqi's, at least for Bagdad, feel that their civil war is either avoided or already over and that the ethnic cleansing of the city is completed.
I do, on the other hand, feel very very sorry for the women who have the misfortune to live in south Iraq and are now forced to submit to a Talebanesque regime there, that terrorises them, forces them to stay in their houses and cut off from every measure of common respect. Not to mention that any time they feel a woman 'violated' the 'laws' they forced on them they will murder her, not even allowing her family to retrieve or identify the corpse. Not to mention that they not infrequently murder her in front of her children, and apparently (many of them are gangs of criminals who 'justify' their terrorising campaign with religion) daughters as young as 8 years are abducted and sold into prostitution abroad as a sort of retribution for the imagined slight on Islam that their mothers commited by going out of her home without being shackled to her husband and covered by a sack. Or maybe just for being born with two X chromosomes.


Additionally, a mea culpa of sorts, I do not wish to scare away other posters with my tennis matches with Tuda. I don't mean to do that, but I am glad that you both mentioned that, I will take that into account next time Tuda and I start rallying like that.

Nah, feel free to write whatever you want. I just did not feel like getting caught in between your verbal slugfest. I did not have the impression the discussion was going anywhere but hashing out the same arguments over what, to me at least, seemed tiny points while the main issue was ignored.

And another bit of horrifying news to conclude this gloomy contribution of mine: It was discovered a few days back that a 15 year old Brazilian girl was locked in a jail cell with over 20 male convicts for about 2 months on theft charges (though she never was charged with anything). I do not care to repeat everything that was done to her in that time, but anything you can imagine most likely happened (and probably more). Brazilian government officials have promised they would find and prosecute those responsible, but nobody really believes anything is going to happen, since this is not the first, or even the second time something like this happened in that country. Not so very long ago a women of 23 was freed after spending 8 months locked in a cell with about 70 inmates. Inquiries in that case have not led to prosecution, much less to an end to such practices, either.


Eri

Heh, the 0000 vs. 2400 thing reminds me of the debate over arrays in programming. If you have an array of 10 elements, should they be referred to as elements 1 through 10 (first through tenth) or as elements 0 through 9 (the offset from the first element)?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Array#Index_of_the_first_element

...which led me to this:
The 0-based/1-based debate is not limited to just programming languages. For example, the ground-floor of a building is elevator button "0" in France, but elevator button "1" in the USA.

Of course there are also buildings on hills where "ground level" could actually be, say, the 7th floor.

First, lets stop futzing with daylight saving time.

Then, sure go to a 24 hour clock. I don't care one way or the other.

I am all for the metric system. Its easier to do math with.

Being I work with computers, I am on the side of 00:00 being the start of the day (IE midnight). So 23:59:59 then 00:00:00. You don't call each minute the 60th second.

You don't call each minute the 60th second.

Unless you're counting out a minute in seconds. 1, 2, 3, 4, .... 59, 0. No.

You could start at 0. :P

Of course there are also buildings on hills where "ground level" could actually be, say, the 7th floor.

Why? It doesn't say sea level it says ground level. Doesn't matter that the ground level happens to start at 4075 feet above mean sea level. Unless you are positing that buildings on hills are built floating in the air.

Why? It doesn't say sea level it says ground level. Doesn't matter that the ground level happens to start at 4075 feet above mean sea level. Unless you are positing that buildings on hills are built floating in the air.

Buildings can be build -on- the hillside, be 12 stories tall and have the main entrance (and ground level) on the 7th floor counted from the lowest. Since every of those twelve floors technically is level with the hillside and typically the floor with the main entrance gets the honour of being called ground level.
(think not of a tower built on the top of the hill, but of each floor only partially on top of the previous one as it follows the profile of the hillside. Locally every floor could be level with the hillside while the building as a whole has several floors)


Eri

I think you are making an argument for the sake of making an argument.

I think you are making an argument for the sake of making an argument.

Not really. I was mainly pointing out what Palarran meant with his comment that the ground floor must not necessarily be the lowest.

And I do not know of any building with 12 floors that follows this pattern, but 3 or 4 stories like this is far from uncommon in any region with lots of (steep) hillsides. Typically the entrance is either at the top floor, or at the next to lowest one.


Eri

What about a building built underground?

Wouldn't the top floor be the ground level?

What about a building built underground?

Wouldn't the top floor be the ground level?

That is customary yes :)


Eri

And then the floors below it might be labelled B1, B2, etc.

For some reason now I cant get a visiual of the hive from Resident Evil out of my mind.

:twak: