View Full Forums : Oh, the irony


Klath
08-31-2008, 12:53 PM
I thought this was a really funny quote given McCain's choice of Palin for VP.
__________

YouTube: Karl Rove on worth of gubatorial and mayoral experience (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-jrk2e0MMs)

"Well, with all due respect again to Gov. Kaine, heís been a governor for three years. Heís been able but undistinguished; I donít think people could really name a big, important thing that heís done. He was mayor of the 105th largest city in America. Again, with all due respect to Richmond, Virginia, itís smaller than Chula Vista, California, Aurora, Colorado, Mesa or Gilbert, Arizona, North Las Vegas or Henderson, Nevada. Itís not a big town. So if you were going to pick Governor Kaine, it would be an intensely political choice where he said, you know what, Iím really not first and foremost concerned with is this person capable of being President of the United States, what Iím concerned about is can he bring me the electoral votes of the state of Virginia, the thirteen electoral votes of Virginia."

[Video... (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-jrk2e0MMs)]

Madie of Wind Riders
09-01-2008, 08:42 AM
Heh - that is funny!

Klath
09-01-2008, 02:05 PM
Abstinence-only education: 0
Biology: 1

Sarah Palin's teen-age daughter pregnant (http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/09/sarah_palins_teenage_daughter.html)
Posted September 1, 2008 1:18 PM
by Jason George

ANCHORAGE, Alaska --The presidential campaign of Sen. John McCain announced Monday that a teenage daughter of his new running, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin, is pregnant.

In a statement, Palin and husband Todd said, "Our beautiful daughter Bristol came to us with news that as parents we knew would make her grow up faster than we had ever planned. We are proud of if Bristol's decision to have her baby, and even prouder to become grandparents."

The couple said Bristol, 17, plans to marry the "young man" who is the father of her child. The Reuters news agency reported Monday that Bristol is five months pregnant.

[More... (http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2008/09/sarah_palins_teenage_daughter.html)]

Panamah
09-01-2008, 03:28 PM
LOL! Now she can't secretly run her off for an abortion...

Klath
09-01-2008, 04:54 PM
LOL! Now she can't secretly run her off for an abortion...
She could still run off for a "miscarriage" though. :)

Panamah
09-01-2008, 08:19 PM
I think I heard hints that some people thought the 4 month old might be a daughter's baby, not the Mom. That's worthy of a Desperate Housewives script!!!

Klath
09-01-2008, 08:57 PM
I think I heard hints that some people thought the 4 month old might be a daughter's baby, not the Mom. That's worthy of a Desperate Housewives script!!!
Seriously! I think the source of the rumor is this DailyKOS post. (http://openthread.dailykos.com/storyonly/2008/8/30/121350/137/486/580223)

Kinda makes you wonder whether Karl Rove switched sides, eh?

Klath
09-01-2008, 10:29 PM
McCain's vetting process leaves a lot to be desired.
_____
Members of 'Fringe' Alaskan Independence Party Say Palin Was a Member in 90s (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html)

September 01, 2008 6:52 PM

The campaign of Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., likes to herald the independence of its new running mate, Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin.

Officials of the Alaskan Independence Party say that Palin was once so independent, she was once a member of their party, which, since the 1970s, has been pushing for a legal vote for Alaskans to decide whether or not residents of the 49th state can secede from the United States.

And while McCain's motto -- as seen in a new TV ad -- is "Country First," the AIP's motto is the exact opposite -- "Alaska First -- Alaska Always."

[More... (http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/09/members-of-frin.html)]

Panamah
09-02-2008, 10:21 AM
This is a good thing!

Klath
09-02-2008, 10:45 AM
It's good if (and only if) it causes McCain to lose in November. If he wins, well, we're saddled with an elderly president with a bad temper and a reckless streak and a VP with little experience who, prior to a few days ago, wasn't interested in much outside of Alaska. That's a scary prospect.

Panamah
09-02-2008, 10:59 AM
Even so, it still sounds better than what we currently have.

Klath
09-02-2008, 11:05 AM
Heh, so true. The bar has certainly been lowered.

Panamah
09-02-2008, 11:55 AM
An ant couldn't limbo under that bar.

Hey, this is an interesting editorial.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/02/opinion/02brooks.html?_r=2&ref=opinion&oref=slogin&oref=slogin

It kind of summarizes the whole social conservative limitation.

My worry about Palin is that she shares McCain’s primary weakness — that she has a tendency to substitute a moral philosophy for a political philosophy.

There are some issues where the most important job is to rally the armies of decency against the armies of corruption: Confronting Putin, tackling earmarks and reforming the process of government.

But most issues are not confrontations between virtue and vice. Most problems — the ones Barack Obama is sure to focus on like health care reform and economic anxiety — are the product of complex conditions. They require trade-offs and policy expertise. They are not solvable through the mere assertion of sterling character.

Panamah
09-02-2008, 12:03 PM
Oh yeah, and if I hear that woman say one more time how Sarah Palin has experience as commander in chief of the Alaskan National Guard my head will explode.

Klath
09-02-2008, 01:09 PM
Oh yeah, and if I hear that woman say one more time how Sarah Palin has experience as commander in chief of the Alaskan National Guard my head will explode.
Oh, you'll love this then (esp. after the 2 minute mark)...

YouTube: Tucker Bounds on Palin's National Security Experience (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UYYiw_y2qDI)

Panamah
09-02-2008, 01:13 PM
Heh heh! I love it!

The twisting and spinning is amazing...

Panamah
09-02-2008, 02:01 PM
Hey, she's not exactly above pork belly spending is she?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/01/AR2008090103148.html?wpisrc=newsletter

ST. PAUL, Minn., Sept. 1 -- Alaska Gov. Sarah Palin employed a lobbying firm to secure almost $27 million in federal earmarks for a town of 6,700 residents while she was its mayor, according to an analysis by an independent government watchdog group.

Erianaiel
09-03-2008, 11:24 AM
Hey, she's not exactly above pork belly spending is she?
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/01/AR2008090103148.html?wpisrc=newsletter

She could hardly be a successful politician, let alone a successful republican/i] politician if she could not creatively twist the truth and the federal budget. (*)

Some other observations about governor Palin made in the newspapers at this side of the pond.
Regarding the way she was enthusiastically embraced by conservatives despite some worrying information leaking out about her track record a reporter commented (paraphrased) "Apparently there are right facts and left facts, and left facts are to be ignored by conservatives"

"You have to wonder what it says about American politics when the only thing that can be said [i]for a potential vice president is that she is against things."

"Both parties must be gearing up for a dirty campaign to reach new depths if someting that happened 20 years ago to somebody else is preemptively considered damaging to governor Palin"

"McCain has selected governor Palin for running mate to appeal to women voters. If we overlook her politics and plans to take away the rights that allowed her to be governor and actually vote for her, we are indeed as stupid as McCain seems to think we are."


Eri

Klath
09-03-2008, 12:16 PM
"Both parties must be gearing up for a dirty campaign to reach new depths if someting that happened 20 years ago to somebody else is preemptively considered damaging to governor Palin"

Sadly, those aren't new depths, those depths have been well plumbed. For every husband's 20 year old DWI there is a wife's 20 year old university thesis or claims that someone is a secret Muslim.

American politics has become a major douchebag-fest on both sides of the aisle. Or, perhaps it has always been that way and it's only that the internet has amplified it. Either way, it's interesting to watch in much the same way as a car accident or a 5-alarm fire.

Palarran
09-03-2008, 02:01 PM
American politics has become a major douchebag-fest on both sides of the aisle. Or, perhaps it has always been that way and it's only that the internet has amplified it.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/08/22/mf.campaign.slurs.slogans/

Things got ugly fast. Jefferson's camp accused President Adams of having a "hideous hermaphroditical character, which has neither the force and firmness of a man, nor the gentleness and sensibility of a woman."

In return, Adams' men called Vice President Jefferson "a mean-spirited, low-lived fellow, the son of a half-breed Indian squaw, sired by a Virginia mulatto father."

As the slurs piled on, Adams was labeled a fool, a hypocrite, a criminal, and a tyrant, while Jefferson was branded a weakling, an atheist, a libertine, and a coward.

Even Martha Washington succumbed to the propaganda, telling a clergyman that Jefferson was "one of the most detestable of mankind."

Panamah
09-03-2008, 04:07 PM
Heh, heh! This is hilarious. Stephen Colbert on Palin: http://www.comedycentral.com/colbertreport/videos.jhtml?videoId=180255

I like his reasoning how she has more space experience.

Klath
09-03-2008, 04:25 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2008/LIVING/wayoflife/08/22/mf.campaign.slurs.slogans/
roflmao -- at least their slurs were polysyllabic.

But the key difference between the two politicians was that Jefferson hired a hatchet man named James Callendar to do his smearing for him. Adams, on the other hand, considered himself above such tactics. To Jefferson's credit, Callendar proved incredibly effective, convincing many Americans that Adams desperately wanted to attack France. Although the claim was completely untrue, voters bought it, and Jefferson stole the election.

Woohoo, Callendar was the first Karl Rove.

Klath
09-03-2008, 04:38 PM
Heh, heh! This is hilarious. Stephen Colbert on Palin
The Daily Show and the Colbert Report have been particularly good over the last week and a half. My favorite has been The Best F**king News Team Ever's convention coverage. Their interaction with the folks at the convention is priceless.

Panamah
09-04-2008, 11:39 AM
Ah here we go!
http://punditkitchen.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/political-pictures-sarah-palin-abstinence-education.jpg

Klath
09-04-2008, 12:29 PM
This clip from yesterday's Daily Show is a perfect addition to this thread.

YouTube: Daily Show 9-3-08 - Throwing Their Own Words Back (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8uGenNjOAI)

Panamah
09-04-2008, 01:41 PM
Oh... the digital age with archives of video clips.... priceless!

Panamah
09-05-2008, 10:45 AM
So apparently McCain's going to stage a revolution against ... his own party? The Republicans have to go so that more Republicans can come in and clean up the mess? Isn't that like hiring monkeys to clean the monkey house?

Gunny Burlfoot
09-07-2008, 04:28 AM
Here's a counter-balance to all the schadenfreude going on in this thread.

http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/06/palin-rumors/

Covers just about everything you listed, and many you didn't.

I would say I am disappointed in the amount of petty behavior going on in the country at large, but like Klath pointed out, it's pretty much par for the course. I find myself more jaded as the years roll on.

However, do check that link out. Amoung other things, Palin's daughter was never taught "abstinence-only" education. (number 28 on that list). Palin herself doesn't even believe in teaching "abstinence-only" (number 50 on that list).

And to show I, too, have a sense of humor.
http://www.sinfest.net/archive_page.php?comicID=2924

Panamah
09-07-2008, 02:31 PM
There was some comment on "Wait. Wait. Don't tell me." about Palin shooting and field-dressing an ACLU member. It was well-done. :)

Panamah
09-07-2008, 04:08 PM
Here's a counter-balance to all the schadenfreude going on in this thread.

http://explorations.chasrmartin.com/2008/09/06/palin-rumors/

Covers just about everything you listed, and many you didn't.

And why does this list get credibility over other lists?

Gunny Burlfoot
09-07-2008, 09:34 PM
And why does this list get credibility over other lists?

Which of those on that link are definitively wrong? I was under the impression the guy running it was just trying to track what was being said. He jokes around with it some, if you read what he's got.

If you can provide some evidence he's got the facts or quotes wrong, I'd happily read it. Are there other lists disproving that list? (This could get infinitely recursive fairly quickly.)

Klath
09-08-2008, 11:29 AM
Here's a counter-balance to all the schadenfreude going on in this thread.

It will be interesting to see if the rebuttals on the list gain any traction. There have been no shortage of lists rebutting the accusations that are continuously leveled at Obama yet people continue to sling the same tired old dirt.

I would say I am disappointed in the amount of petty behavior going on in the country at large, but like Klath pointed out, it's pretty much par for the course. I find myself more jaded as the years roll on.
I think that what's different now is that the internet has allowed everyone to get in on the action. As bad as it has become, the mainstream media is still a lot better at filtering out complete garbage than bloggers or discussion-group posters. I'm not suggesting blogs and discussion groups aren't a net positive thing -- I'm just pointing out that they come with some serious baggage.

Panamah
09-08-2008, 02:05 PM
Tell me about it. My brain melted when having a carefully polite political discussion on another forum and one poster started to blather about how immoral Hillary Clinton is and how she hasn't done anything.

I've gotten pretty good at not rising to the bait.

Panamah
09-09-2008, 10:54 AM
Palin Billed State for Nights Spent at Home (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/09/08/AR2008090803088.html?hpid=topnews)
Oops.

Klath
09-10-2008, 12:08 PM
I wish Palin would do an interview with Meet the Press (or a similar interview show) and and answer some questions about her political views and her record. The fact that she's so press-shy doesn't really jibe with the pitbull-with-lipstick demeanor she professes to have.

Panamah
09-10-2008, 01:50 PM
She isn't prepared, that's why she isn't meeting the press.

Erianaiel
09-10-2008, 02:31 PM
She isn't prepared, that's why she isn't meeting the press.

And as long as she does not meet the press she can cultivate her reputation without anybody being able to poke holes in it. And as long as their chief hate and fear monger can spout half truth and lies that the opponent -has- to respond to they can keep the press (and voters) too busy to examine their candidate.

Mind, I think that the average republican voter will vote for Michael Jackson's monkey before they will vote for a democratic candidate, as long as their source of information tells them said monkey opposes abortion, will support family values and make the rich even richer.

Other random observations...
Please tell your journalists and reporters to stop talking about republican and democrat party as 'conservative' and 'liberal'. As far as the rest of the world is concerned the choice is between ultra conservative and really ultra conservative.

How do the Palin fans reconcile with their (conservative and family value) morals that getting a underage girl pregnant means having sex with her, which I believe they strongly feel is a crime? Should they not clamour for the boy to be locked up for life rather than celebrate his achievement? Either I do not understand the American law in this respect (and the really ultra conservative sense of morals), or the more things change the more things stay the same when it comes to double standards.


Eri

Klath
09-10-2008, 05:01 PM
She isn't prepared, that's why she isn't meeting the press.
Aye. More evidence that, despite claims to the contrary from the McCain campaign, they did very little as far as vetting Palin.

Mind, I think that the average republican voter will vote for Michael Jackson's monkey before they will vote for a democratic candidate, as long as their source of information tells them said monkey opposes abortion, will support family values and make the rich even richer.
The marketing division of the Republican National Committee now collectively refers to these as "Small Town Values."

Klath
09-12-2008, 08:29 AM
"Does anybody know what the difference between a bulldog and a hockey mom is?"

"The bulldog gets vetted." - Bob Barr

[More... (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=5779920&page=1)]

Panamah
09-12-2008, 05:31 PM
How do the Palin fans reconcile with their (conservative and family value) morals that getting a underage girl pregnant means having sex with her, which I believe they strongly feel is a crime?
Well, since it's a Republican it gets spun with a family value theme like his:

Yes, her daughter made a mistake, everyone is human. But they're doing the responsible thing by getting married (someday) and keeping the child.

If it had been a democratic woman's daughter it would have been spun by the extreme right that this is because Democrats have no family values, therefore the daughter got preggers.

Erianaiel
09-13-2008, 06:41 AM
Well, since it's a Republican it gets spun with a family value theme like his:

Yes, her daughter made a mistake, everyone is human. But they're doing the responsible thing by getting married (someday) and keeping the child.

If it had been a democratic woman's daughter it would have been spun by the extreme right that this is because Democrats have no family values, therefore the daughter got preggers.

This would be almost funny if it were not true :(
To quote J.M. Straczynsky "Understanding is a three edged sword: It has your side, their side and the truth".

This election (like the ones before it) also reinforce my idea that it is really really bad to have a political system where you can only (reallly) vote between two candidates. It is too divisive and there is no modertating force in it. A system with three parties of roughly equal size is much more stable.
I am wondering sometimes how much longer this separation of democrat and republican spheres of media, culture and society can go on before the best course of action is to draw a line somewhere along the appalaches and another one along the rocky mountains, and call the part in the middle the republican states of america and the coastal areas collectively the democratic states of america.


Eri

Panamah
09-13-2008, 03:00 PM
I don't know, Eri. I think a lot of people are registering "non-partisan" now (like 40% I think) because they're so fed up with the parties. Not that it really changes anything but perhaps it sends a message.

Erianaiel
09-14-2008, 03:06 PM
I don't know, Eri. I think a lot of people are registering "non-partisan" now (like 40% I think) because they're so fed up with the parties. Not that it really changes anything but perhaps it sends a message.

I hope it changes something because it is a very scary prospect if half the population of the most powerful country in the world automatically dismisses anything the other half has to say. I am not sure if it would be more worrying or less if it is mutual instead of unilateral.


Eri

Kamion
09-14-2008, 11:21 PM
But I heard a vote for a third party = a wasted vote. Apparently people frown upon this whole "voting for your true beliefs" thing. Wasting your principles is perfectly acceptable as long as your don't waste your vote. This is democracy! Grab a gun and lets start spreading it.

Panamah
09-15-2008, 12:20 PM
What was the Heinlein book where the old geezer dies and wakes up in the body of his young, sexy secretary? Oh yeah, "I will fear no evil".

I think that might have happened to Dick Cheney and he now inhabits the body of Sarah Palin. Vengeful, crony-rewarding, vindictive... wow! Cheney 2.0! Fashion sense entirely upgraded!

Once Elected, Palin Hired Friends and Lashed Foes (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/14/us/politics/14palin.html?hp=&pagewanted=all)

Erianaiel
09-18-2008, 07:25 AM
I think that might have happened to Dick Cheney and he now inhabits the body of Sarah Palin. Vengeful, crony-rewarding, vindictive... wow! Cheney 2.0! Fashion sense entirely upgraded!



Makes you wonder about McCain, does it not ... ?


Eri

Panamah
09-18-2008, 07:13 PM
Which McCain are we talking about? McCain the candidate or McCain the reformed Maverick? :)

Eridalafar
09-28-2008, 08:45 PM
Or McCain the gambler?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/28/us/politics/28gambling-web.html?hp=&pagewanted=all

Most of the Gamblers are interesting poeples, but if and when I gamble, I place my-self the bet. I don't give them my money and hope for the best.

And a side note he have a good number of the gambling industry lobbyists around him too. For someone totaly free of the crush of the lobbyists, he is begining to have a good colection of them.

Eridalafar