View Full Forums : Aggro diffusion?


ArienneDileas
07-29-2003, 07:13 AM
A thought occurred to me as I was reading another thread...

I see some suggesting that druids get a jolt or DA type spell to decrease aggro. (Personally, I want Feign Death :D but I don't think VI will ever go for that.) Some say an aggro reducer would be imbalancing... BUT, patch healing druids DO take on aggro VERY fast. We tend to heal the PCs that do enough to pull an angry MoB off of a main tank who has been generating aggro for quite a while. I can almost count on dying if I heal a particular wizard in my guild on /assist healing. The same can hold true for healing a pally, shaman or enchanter on certain fights. Clerics heal around the room, but on raids they tend to concentrate on the heavy taunting tanks who can usually hold aggro. We don't have that luxury, nor do we have DA.

So.... My thought was a new AA skill. An instacast, 3-5 second lure based root with perhaps a 2 or 3 minute refresh. Not an aggro diffuser really, but something that would give our raid mates a chance to regain aggro if they were on the ball. It would not be unbalancing because it would be dependant on others to save us but it would give a few second "breather" that might be enough to keep us alive.

Anyway, just a thought.

Stormfront
07-29-2003, 07:17 AM
That would be nice for multiple pulls and wouldn't make us any stronger in Boss fights. Doesn't help with our not being able to burn mana away with nukage, but certainly would help folks like me who spend their nights assist and spot healing.

Aluaeia
07-29-2003, 07:27 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I can almost count on dying if I heal a particular wizard in my guild on /assist healing[/quote]

Sounds like the wizard needs to die a lot more.

Oldoaktree
07-29-2003, 07:29 AM
...for the worst repeat offenders...

ArienneDileas
07-29-2003, 07:33 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Sounds like the wizard needs to die a lot more. [/quote]Almost max AAs, doing mega damage per cast with crits... hard to keep it down to no aggro unless it is the final blow to a MoB. But that is the one we all end up patching :)

TeriMoon
07-29-2003, 07:47 AM
Aggro is hard to control at the high end when your casts are unpredictable due to AA crits (either healing or nuking). Nevertheless it IS possible. Maybe not every single time when you are pushing it, but it can be done more often than not. Its not just druids who have an aggro problem. It shouldn't run downhill and cause druids to die because we are the healer-of-last-resort when the clerics are concentrated on the tanks.

I think aggro reduction for our nukes is in order, personally, but heal aggro is something a little different -- aside from the initial pull and first few seconds its really everyone's job to try to be controlled even in the short fights.

ArienneDileas
07-29-2003, 11:03 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I think aggro reduction for our nukes is in order, personally, but heal aggro is something a little different -- aside from the initial pull and first few seconds its really everyone's job to try to be controlled even in the short fights. [/quote]Although I can appreciate your opinion here I also have to disagree. I have found that healing aggro will kill me faster than any damage aggro ever can. Perhaps because my guild uses druids primarily for patching and buffing, and secondarily for damage.

BUT....
regardless of the REASON for aggro, I still think a short term root as described above could be a viable option. As an AA skill it wouldn't be a mandatory purchase, but could be available if wanted. Some of the AA skills that other druids swear by I would never buy. But I am glad that they are there if they are useful to some :)

Aggro in some PoP zones is quite different than anywhere else in EQ. Unfortunately, it's something that many of us have to deal with every time we play. We often lose casters and healers for no apparant reason. They are not sitting. They have not cast a spell. They have done NOTHING apparant to attract the ire of a MoB. But that MoB makes a bee line for them and *boom* "LOADING, PLEASE WAIT".

TeriMoon
07-29-2003, 11:12 AM
I will agree with you that healing aggro gets me killed more often because that is what I do most of.

I am not sure how such an AA skill would help much. Most mobs of htis nature will be summoning and/or unrootable.

My guild also tends to use druids in those roles. We do die. Clerics also die at times. I will be very blunt. There are a few people that I won't outright refuse to heal, because I would never do that, but I do sometimes wait until the last possible moment to do so hoping that someone else will do the job first. This is because I have died too many times healing this same overnuking person. And my death was in vain because they are looting their corpse the same time I am. So, I have to ask myself what is better for the encounter as a whole, trying to save someone in an almost impossible situation, or waiting and saving my mana and the necro's mana and the cleric's and all the rebuffing that needs to happen for me, and finding a better target to heal. Sad but true.

Tiane
07-29-2003, 02:40 PM
Crits (heals or nukes) arent supposed to cause additional aggro. I remember a post from Alan back on old Graffe's forums where he said that. They are just supposed to cause the base amount of whatever the spell would normally do, then the crit part is just free.

I cant imagine why they'd do it otherwise.

Anyway, I'll just echo my constant frustration with aggro. It's really just one more reason to not play when all the work over the years to boost my mana regen, pool, abilities, survivability, seems like just a waste of time when I cant even use half my mana without going splat. It's just stupid. Even a self only rune spell (like the int casters all have) would help with our survivability. As it is, druids have the lowest effective HP of ALL casters (including runes) and no way to deal with the aggro of our spells (which are all higher aggro than the equivalent spell of any other class.) There is no "strategy" to avoid getting summoned... so please dont start... the only thing a druid can do on a raid to not be summoned and die is to not do anything at all.

Tia

haillon
07-29-2003, 09:13 PM
well i am not sure druids have a aggro problem but more the person who plays it, no i am not saying you guys cant play you druid or something cause i die alot too on raids. but my experince is that you can easily keep you low on aggro list if you just not nuke chain nuke but still nuke pretty much.

normaly after main fight like Fenni Ro or something i am down to 10 mana, and that are after nuke,cure,heals.

and i got 6000 mana ubuffed, so what i am saying is:
you just have to be a bit consetratet when you play druid on raids. but yeah it maybe would help if we get a rune or something.



Haillon Alawysdead
Recruit Officer of Raging Fury

Weoden
07-30-2003, 01:07 AM
I think rooting a raid level mobs is setting your melee up to die. A rooted mob has strange agro and will turn on the melee in the back. Once the mob turns then regaining agro is tough unless everyone turns autoattack of and then you have ripotse damage when the mob turns...

ArienneDileas
07-30-2003, 07:57 AM
A rooted MoB turns to hit the *closest* PC to it within it's melee range. I can see it turning to the back if the MT is keeping optimum distance from the front while everyone else hits at will on the back and side. Anyone rooting a MoB that is under that much control should be taken out and shot with arrows after being flung off the cliff in East Karana. If I ever get healing aggro from the BOSS MoB we are killing it's because the main tank got squashed and the transition went bad. I don't feel that we deserve relief from a death under that scenario.

BUT, most of the heal aggro I get comes from adds or multiples in a pull and healing the people working to gain control of them. Not the main tank's target that is already being controlled or being worked towards control. I don't think that a short term root would be as devistating as you suggest, but I could be wrong. My guess is it would also save a few shamen and 'chanters if it gave a tank just a fraction of time to pull some aggro. But isn't that what DA does? Saves a cleric long enough for someone else to take aggro? And WOW... talk about being wanted for a raid or group! If we had a skill that *might* save shamen and 'chanters a few deaths too...

At a certain point, "managing" healing aggro is pretty close to impossible for a druid in EQ. Kinda tough to do on a raid when you are assist healing for MoBs that hit 1-2k+. With our sluggish cast times and the rate the mobs hit, you pretty much have to start a patch when you see any PC except warriors with a bubble or two of HPs down. :/ We don't have the luxury of waiting a little in hopes of avoiding aggro when all hell is breaking loose. Even with fast cast foci, we are still VERY slow on the heals.

Oh well. At least they fixed corpse looting so that I don't have to juggle the multi slot items every time I loot!! And spell sets.... sometimes I actually get all my spells memmed before I get a rez box now! :D

Stormfront
07-30-2003, 08:06 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Crits (heals or nukes) arent supposed to cause additional aggro. I remember a post from Alan back on old Graffe's forums where he said that. They are just supposed to cause the base amount of whatever the spell would normally do, then the crit part is just free.[/quote]

I seem to get more aggro whenever I crit a couple heals back to back then when I just land normal heals back to back. So I'm not sure on this at all.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr> With our sluggish cast times and the rate the mobs hit, you pretty much have to start a patch when you see any PC except warriors with a bubble or two of HPs down. :/ We don't have the luxury of waiting a little in hopes of avoiding aggro when all hell is breaking loose. Even with fast cast foci, we are still VERY slow on the heals.[/quote]

Nature's Infusion is a base of 3.75 seconds afaik. With my 18% spell haste, that comes down to 3.1. With Blessing of Reverance from a cleric, that is further reduced to 2.7 seconds. That is reasonable to save just about anyone as long as I know they have aggro and they don't get 1 rounded :) Assist healing usually handles enchanters well enough, the question is if they don't land that mez, will I go splat? :D

ArienneDileas
07-30-2003, 11:44 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Nature's Infusion is a base of 3.75 seconds afaik. With my 18% spell haste, that comes down to 3.1. With Blessing of Reverance from a cleric, that is further reduced to 2.7 seconds.[/quote]Yeah, I know.
In PoTime I have seen a full 10k tank's HP bar racing my 2.7 sec cast of NI. The warrior gibbed with only one MoB on him. And yep! He was gonna die anyway even if my heal had landed first. And if it had, I would have probably been next on the list. Losing a heal cast vs HP bar drop on a (buffed) 10 k tank doesn't happen often because it's rare for me to have the only heal going on a warrior, but it does happen. BUT, next to a cleric's 1.8 Supernal Remedy, when we patch, we cast very slowly. Understand that I am not complaining about the speed of our healing. In the context of what I said, it's merely a contributing factor to our healing aggro management problems.

We don't all hunt and play in the same environment in EQ, but most druids have found issues with the lack of aggro diffusion, particularly when other classes are given something to work with. Because we are healers I suppose we feel that we deserve something more than the two options of death, or do nothing. Especially if actually PLAYING your class results in a constant death loop. I know I do.

I just hope VI comes up with something to let me feel as though I am doing more than patch heal, die, accept a rez and loot corpse. I don't know what the answer is, but the above was just an idea I came up with that wouldn't be overpowering and still have a "druidish" feel.

/steps off her soapbox

Ok.. done now :)