View Full Forums : Charm Soloing but Not DC


spitnuk
07-10-2002, 02:34 AM
I have looked around the board but there seems to be very little infomation about this unless I missed it.

There are lots of guides and threads about DC but not so much for normal charming.

I am level 56 and am interested in knowing the difference between the various charm spells. Is it essential to use Call of Karana and if so why?

I have all of the charm spells up to my level except this one as all I seem to get from the trade in NPC is egress and Glamour of Tunare.

I was thinking of trying charming out in Scarlet Desert so I am after any tips that are going to help me not die horribly everytime my pet decides to break charm:)

Thanks,

Spitnuk

Silicon Traveller
07-10-2002, 04:46 AM
i charmed quite a lot, in my 57-60 game...
i personally am most fond of maidens, chardok, and sirens grotto for this.

maidens, exclusively go for ravenous beasts...
they regen really fast, hit hard, and have like 15-20k hp.
they are right on the borderline of being charmable,
so it takes awhile to find the a good one sometimes...
but its all worth it.

chardok, sniffers are good ;), fleshrippers seem to keep the
charm relatively ok as well.

sg has some nice options also ;)

i usually start of with glamour of tunare
follow with ensnare (aka leash)
this will prevent annul from cancelling my pet-ness. :)
in addition to increasing chance and length of charm.
now i call of karana while the soon-to-be pet is beating on me... or if i have the option of running around while i'm charming, then i do that. (sg doesnt allow for too much movement)

in maidens, i tend to keep my beast.. so i buff it with all i can.
str, skin, regen, nature recovery, ds, savage pet (very very nice haste!!!)... throw on whatever you got ;)
just make sure to ensnare every time you lose the charm, before you recharm.... coz they get real nasty-like...

using maidens, for example, i solo the 3-pop and 2-pop
coterie camps, the chief camp (the whole thing), scouts are little tougher - but also did those...

chardok, with a charmed sniffer i can hold the front fort...
gonna try observer soon as i get my dire charm :)

overall... its pretty fun.

charm breaks are random... sometimes lasting 10 seconds
and sometimes lasting like 7 mins... gets annoying sometimes.

lots of theories wether CHA actually helps

for what its worth, it *seems* to help me, maybe its just placebo :)


but anyway ... have fun, and dont be afraid to experiment..
worst that happens is you die :)

spitnuk
07-10-2002, 05:01 AM
Excellent information thanks a lot:)

Will I need to get Call of Karana before I can do this as I am finding it an elusive spell?

Are the lower charms limited to lower level animals?

Thanks again,

Spitnuk
56 Druid
Cazic Thule Server

lelou195
07-10-2002, 05:46 AM
well if you 56 and you actually have ALL your charm spells you will have the no aggro charm you get at 56 which will let you charm everything up to lvl 46, same as dire charm. I belive that at least most of what he listed can be dire charmed and thus you can use you lovely new non aggro charm.

Anyone feel free to correct me if im wrong

Ligge
07-10-2002, 06:53 AM
Tunares request - nonaggro charm - caps on level 35 animals.

So it has its uses but they arent very common if you are exps hunting.

I charm often but always use Glamour, snare, then Call of Karana.

Pretty much all the places listed above work great but you will want/need Call of Karana for them.

As far as charisma - the official Verant stand point is that cha has an effect but it is minimal in the over all scheme of things with your level vs level of animal and animals mr being the bigger factors.

I do notice a significant improvement with 100+ cha as a druid, but anything higher I dont see anything change. I charm at 109 cha most days which is really only 3 swaps (Shield of Bane Warding 8cha, Tunarean ring 10cha, and Tranix Crown 20) so it doesnt effect my other stats much.

With my enchanter I notice significant improvements at 100, 150, 200+ but anywhere in between those milestones I see little to no change as I would at the level below it. ie. 178 cha is no better than 150 in my eyes. Thats personal observations only though.

Geddine
07-10-2002, 04:38 PM
Tried a little in ME but the only the lowest level ravenous beast is charmable (level 53) the rest are 54-57. So from what I found about 1 in 6 is charmable.

My favorite is Chardok. Usually do exit/fort.
Snare the dog, Call of Karana, DS it. Pull another mob (try to use di'zoks as the mob, as to not waste charmable critters), root it and set the pet on it. Maybe throw in a DoT if you have spare mana/epic. Pull another mob and set pet on it also after rooting it in place. Before this mob dies your pet will be getting low. Just before your pet dies, break charm. 3 ways to do this. 1. Hide if you have it. Not very reliable but saves a spell slot. 2. Superior Camo. Reliable but takes up a spell slot and takes time to cast. 3. Annul the mob, not good becuase it stripps all the spells on the mob including snare. Once you break charm kill your ex-pet and if its still alive the mob it was attacking. So you should have just killed 3 mobs with only using max 1 bub mana, which should have regened while your pet was tanking the mob. Plus with the exit right there you don't need to save mana for an egress and can run to safety if the need arises.

I've never ever used Glamour, to me it just takes up a spell slot which I am already in short supply of. For me charm does not have to last terribly long, maybe about 2-3 minutes. And the point being your pet is supposed to die, means this wouldn't work with DC.

Ligge
07-10-2002, 05:25 PM
Actually I continue to recharm the same dog for hours.

Charm may be broken with hide, camo or when it does on its own. If it does while in a fight I root both, reglamour, resnare, recharm. Then nuke the bad guy so root breaks and then reroot him on top of my pet and have at it.

When I charm I have plenty of spell slots availble as I plan on the pets being a tank and my job is just to keep them hasted/buffed and healed.

Normal spell load for Chardok charming:
Heal - chloro or NR depending on my gutsiness that day
Thorns - yes for dog
Savage Spirit
Root - duh :)
Nuke - moonfire inside, breath if outside normally
Ensare - duh :)

The last two slots are Egress/Gate, DoT, or Glamour - normally Glamour and Egress though indoors and DoT/Glamour outdoors.

After a few hours of this if my pet has served me well - I kill him too! Personally from a happy master standpoint I would like to leave him but I just dont think its really fair to others for a NS, Girdled, Regrowed, Hasted and Thorned pet to be left behind... if of course there are others nearby that may get him in a pull.

Geddine
07-10-2002, 06:02 PM
My Chardok spell gems are
NT
NR
CoK
Damage Shield
Nuke
Root
Ensnare
DoT

I'm guessing I could take out one of the heals to put the Glamour in, but I don't like to be unprepared should an emergancy happen. I find the pets take too much damage and I'd spend all my mana healing it just to keep it alive, when I can simply kill it for XP and go charm a full health dog afterwards.

Aluaeia
07-10-2002, 07:31 PM
BTW, Glamour will land on your pet even while he's charmed, though ensnare still won't.

Definitely worth the spell slot for Glamour IMO, I was Glamouring the swirlspine seahorses that we were killing for exp while we were waiting for Phinny to spawn (me at 54 and a 59 druid were only healers, other druid was casting RotG and nuking a lot; 8 people, only one death and it was the other druid, hah), other druid didn't have glamour, and when I kept saying %t tashed, everyone (including the other druid) was asking me what I was doing. Uh, anyways, with Glamour they weren't being as MR as normal, I was landing snare about 95% of the time on them after glamour.

spitnuk
07-11-2002, 02:09 AM
Thanks guys a lot of very useful information there.

I'm still struggling to get the Call of Karana spell so I can't test it out yet:)

So far I have had 2 Egress, 4 Glamour of Tunare's from the trade in NPC.

Spitnuk
Level 56 Druid
Cazic Thule Server

Daddun
07-16-2002, 11:36 PM
one word, Chardok. I go there, and if it's open, I can usually keep exit/entrance/fort at 58, but only if I don't go ld =p. have (in order): scorai, chloroblast(maybe sup heal, depends how I'm fealing), winged death/glamour of tunare, call of karana, savage spirit, ensnare, engorging roots, then gate. I usually try to keep high cha(129 or so). I snare a sniffer(whelps won't work) CoK it, haste it, then send if after mobs untill it's just about dead, then I invis to break charm, kill pet, and finish whatever it is it was fighting with epic. so that's like 4 kills in 5 minuts for 300 or so mana, while medding most of the time I can usually make back most of it. I then charm another sniffer, and do the same. this is awsome exp. I'll have to check out the theory of mr affecting charm time. I also find it more effective in chardok to get a new pet and kill your old one when it gets low on health rather than keeping it and healing it.

Darkconclusion
07-17-2002, 07:42 AM
Thought I would post a little something as I was skimming the boards...
The Cha issue is this. Charisma is a tertiery stat. the importance of checks on charm breaks is this(1 being the most important)

1.Magic Resistance of mob
2.Level of Player to mob
3.Charisma

Like how agi helps increase ac,and defense(dodge,miss,block,etc) abilities, cha helps resists on charms. The break period is 3 seconds after the spell is cast, then 6 seconds after and every 6 seconds thereafter. I have run tests timing charms to the millisecond and from what I found its the 3 initial second then 6 sec duration (click timer). My Enchanter is at 260 cha (only shows 255) by accident, the ironic thing is when I made my trophies to get the 260 cha I got Dire Charm where cha isn't required. Anyway, Charisma helps, but don't bother with it soo much unless your a class who uses cha for spells other than Charm. If you want good charms use a MR debuff on mob, Enchanters have the unresistable Tashan series, Druids have the no aggro(I think) animal only debuff, and since you only charm animals it's perfect. Makes you wonder if the spell was designed for animal charms**shrugs**.

Master Darkconclusion
60 Enchanter of the 30th alt point
Master of all trades,melees,abilities,etc
Bristlebane server

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Abru
07-20-2002, 01:32 AM
<blockquote>Tried a little in ME but the only the lowest level ravenous beast is charmable (level 53) the rest are 54-57. So from what I found about 1 in 6 is charmable.</blockquote>Try spectral wolves. They're all charmable.

silverbough
08-07-2002, 04:50 AM
And always try to glamour your pets. MR of the mob really does make a difference, so knocking it down is a good thing. You dont need to keep glamour up in your spell set either. Use your normal set, when your pet breaks root it and the mob you were killing in place. Unmem something you dont really need like a your dot. Mem glamour -it has a very fast load time- glamour the pet again, recharm, and sick on mob. Then reload your DoT.

Heh, dont really need to worry about this to much if you charm/solo like Geddine and just rechose pets =) While this is very good exp I like to select one pet, pamper it with buffs, then keep it for hours =)

Silverbough
Heirophant of Xev

Cronuus
08-11-2002, 07:23 AM
In chardok the best pets can be found down the tunnel to the left of the front fort, Chokidai manglers and wardogs, both are level 53ish and hit for 149s, do not summon, some have very low MR, about 8k hp. and regen 3-5% of their hp per tick.
I usually grab one of those and fight back up to exit entrance.
Ive tried ME but I was never able to pull a wolf without getting 500 adds =\ where are they usually pulled to? I tried pulling to DS zone but couldn't do it.

Lemba
08-25-2002, 10:24 AM
I don't know at what level the Permafrost Bear Pits first become soloable, but I love charm soloing there at 60. I rarely ever die, and when I do its usually because I pit my charmed bear/wolf against 2 or 3 other bears/wolves and get unlucky with charm breaking or multiple resisted roots.

I just love the idea of these KOS bears tearing each other to shreds for my benefit. I hide/invis when my charmed pet is just about to die so I can put it out of its misery and claim even more experience.

I just wish there were more indoor zones that featured charmable animals. Chardok is often camped, and the bear pits of permafrost can only support one or two people at most.

chenier
08-27-2002, 01:57 PM
Is charming soloing as good as xp as quadding? I'm looking for something different while aaxp grinding.

Ligge
08-28-2002, 04:44 PM
Not normally, but in some cases it can be... charming inside with the indoors dungeon bonus helps offset the pure numbers from quadding.

Chardok with a pet I can keep up with quadding ME. PoM with a pet I can do faster than quadding ME, but in an hour all my candidates are dead and I have to wait on repop... never compared the time of exps per hour in Vox's lair though. I do it for the change of pace and to keep my more on my toes. Quadding makes me sleep.

Vermik MT
09-10-2002, 10:39 AM
Charming dogs in Chardok was a nice shot in the arm for my bank account from 58-60 too. Easily got 30k worth of loot at the exit.

I'm with Geddine. I let my charmed dog fight a few Sarnaks and when he's almost dead, invis and kill him with a root.

My personal experience with charming dogs there makes me "think" that charisma +100 definitely made a difference. With 110-ish cha, I rarely had charm wear before the dog's demise.

Oaky
09-13-2002, 06:30 AM
I also have been charming a lot in permafrost bear pit, it was very nice xp in the beginning due to some bug with xp going 100% into alternate advancement, still is but unlike with quadding you cannot go afk while medding, as you do not have to med much anyway.

Glamour, ensnare, call of karana, savage spirit, kill 2 or 3 other mobs, kill pet, goto 10

Perma also enables to use a manastone.

Arbrus Naturalis
09-14-2002, 06:12 PM
Advice for non-dire charm soloing in ME...
This is what I do since I have no 'magical' way of knowing the levels on rav beasts. I snare-pull a spec wolf and charm it(don't buff it yet). I park it at my camp spot and go looking for rav beasts. Snare-pull a rav beast and have a seat next to my pet. The mob will hit for full if you are sitting so if it hits you double 151 or 149, then it can be charmed. Back off and break your charm...charm the rav beast and sick it on the spec wolf. If it hits for more than 151 then back off and buff your spec wolf immediately and try again after. Just be careful, some rav beasts will enrage, so nuke hard if it does, they will tear thru a spec wolfs hit points fast.
I usually pull a few mobs after to let the buffs wear off and try another rav beast.
Just be sure to keep your pet and pull snared all the time...having a pet buffed with 70% haste running after you full speed can hurt heh.
Oh ya, hotkey this: /pet report health....it shows what buffs are on it and the order. My pets usually show this when I do it:
ensnare
call of karana
savage spirit
shield of blades
regrowth

A 151 hitting rav beast is the best pet I've ever had in game....with savage spirit, max dmg shield and regrowth on it...you can kill almost non-stop without using too much mana at all.
As for the charisma thing, I usually do this with 100 cha and I don't use glamour. For the most part I get long enough charms so I can't complain. Sometimes you get the 1-2 tick charms and others you get max duration so it's the luck of the draw in my experience. As long as your pet is snared, charm breaking is a minor inconvenience as long you are only single pulling. Hell, I break a long charms often to resnare.

bdg55
09-18-2002, 11:05 AM
jaggedpine is a brilliant zone to charm solo

after some extensive work the best yet is charming the black panthers. Even if you are aligned with the residents of jaggedpine (which i am max ally with) go find the darkest blue panther you can find, glamour, snare, call and then buff buff buff.

After i get my nice black cat ready, I trot him over to the irritating Potameids and I have him chew them up over and over and over again. Now this is probably not the best experience, but it is a) fun b) revenge c) fun.

Fear not if you pet dies on you while charmed, you will not get a faction hit. Just ensure if the panther must die, that he dies at the end of a fight while charmed.

Also, I used this theory to clear the entire Poacher camp, silly I know, but the most I had up once I got my routine down, was 3 poachers.

fun fun fun I tell ya!

hope this helps a little

Ramalot CIF
10-04-2002, 07:49 AM
Well I am new to charming, and have one question..
If while you have something charmed, and before you break charm. Can you re-charm the critter while it is charmed by you?
Therefore eliminating the chance of it breaking at the end?

editing for improper sig



edit: sig to big :P try to keep under 30k please.

Alyn Cross
10-05-2002, 04:27 AM
no you cannot re-charm ahead of time.

Personally, mah new favorite spot to use CoK is in Necropolis... yeah, those cheklaki? only ever seen one too high to charm, and they really can tear appart chetari guards & casters & bats. at 1-2%aa per kill, it's well worth the time.
bring a jstick to tash the chetari, though, cause MR on dominators, guards, masters, and seekers is sickeningly high.


still haven't tried getting one up the tunnel and down to the amorph. masses, but i bet with a charmed rat there, it'd be amazing xp.

alyn cross
riding insanity
povar

La Bannis
10-05-2002, 04:30 AM
Though I wish it worked that way, you have to wait for it to take a bite out of your leg before you recharm it again. I usually always have my pet snared, generally if solo I also root it; when he breaks, resnare him and/or root him and CoK him again.

I don't bother with the root in a group because I'll have to apologize for bad pet beating up the enchanter who inevitably hangs out by bad pet.

Root is super easy solo though; just run my mob right in front of the pet and root him there too.

Daddun
10-07-2002, 01:42 AM
with the new healing spells and resist changes I thought I might mention how charm exping has changed for me. My favorite place is chardok and my weapon of choice is the fleshrippers. If I can get one of those, I snare it, got it, then cok, potc, and savage spirit. Charm usually lasts about 10 minuts. I my favorite place is BK. I can keep it cleared easily if everything goes right and the exp is soooooo good. I'll kill a few mobs in no time and I'll notice my exp bar jumped 7%. only problom is that charm lasts so darn long I have to keep resnaring, GoTing and hasting.

Ramalot CIF
10-07-2002, 03:47 AM
well thanks for the help guys.. I played around with it this weekend and it seems that I was able to charm the critters, before charm broke. it may have been cause the critter was about 15 lvls lower than me.. let me know your thoughts..



edit: Im in sig nerfing mood today and a 98k sig is too big sorry they need to be under 30k :D

Aenara Wyldhart
10-09-2002, 08:01 AM
You are able to recast a charm on the pet but notice how it doesn't say, "[mob] blinks." Your second charm didn't overwrite the first one. It's still a random duration.

My thots on charisma have always been that it helps on the initial resist check. After that, only MR and level difference can cause a break before the random charm duration is up. Always use Glamour. :)

Sogaard Wildweed
10-10-2002, 07:58 AM
In ME, I never use Glamour and I still have no trouble keeping pets for long periods of time. I also have a Cha of 50 (thanks to CT's brain).

Why don't I use GoK? Having a feared pet in ME isn't fun.

Ramalot CIF
10-10-2002, 10:30 AM
just bringing this up again.. I did get the (critter) blinks message.. Can someone else test this.. I am lvl 51 and was charming d blue wooly rhinos in ew. Had it charmed and after about 5 min, re-cast allure and got the message that wooly rhino (blinks).. anymore info would be appreciated.


edit: Nerfed sig :P

Sogaard Wildweed
10-10-2002, 11:46 AM
Any time I have recast charm on a pet, I have never, ever gotten a "blinks" message.

~Sog
~LoD - Innoruuk

Rydex of Bristlebane
10-10-2002, 03:43 PM
I have to agree that Maidens is a great charm zone outside of chardok good faction farming. When you find that special wolf in Maidens you are set for the night. I have found you can solo anything in the zone that is not named (haven't tried it on any of the named). You can make many happy guildies and twinks hunting there.

People say 4 arms are hard, watchem die before it can count all of its fingers.

Hooded dudes harassing you?
Have your wolf get medieval on his arse.

Toilet heads crowding your space?
Never fear Mr. Wolf has the cure.

Tribals making lewd advancements toward your favorite shrub?
With your wolf he will be taking a dirt nap in under a minute.

Worms sucking you down?
Think I better stop here.......

Have fun charmin,
Rydex

Moonangie
10-22-2002, 04:41 PM
A Ravenous Beast m akes killing the Thought Stealer a walk in the park. Just snare it, RSD it -- to gain aggro -- throw on your DOTs, and THEN tell wolf to attack. Wurms are slow when snared, and rav beast can keep up with it. Make sure to throw in a nuke now and then to reinforce aggro.

Then just aggro kite it to death. Wolf does all the work, you just run it around. Make sure you are doing this is a safe area or the adds will disrupt the fight.

BriennaMonk
10-25-2002, 10:45 AM
Has anyone tried charming the Timber Griffons in JP? They have no faction hit, and would seem to make a good pet to take out the gnoll cave, since they spawn frequently in that area.

BriennaMonk
10-26-2002, 03:42 AM
This must be an acquired thing :)

I tried charming a Timber Griffon last night and parked it outside the gnoll cave in JP. Pulled a gnoll from just inside the tunnel. Immediately as I cast snare on the gnoll, the charm broke, so now I'm between two hostile mobs - take a few hits. Run around get some distance, re-charm fizzles - take some more hits. Finally end up egressing.

That was a fairly typical pull for me. I tried about 5 mobs with a charmed griffon pet and only ended up with 2 kills. I think I need some practice :)

Accretion
10-29-2002, 09:43 AM
I had a hard time using CoK on the Gnolls in JP. It was just too cumbersome to fight your way down to a "safe" spot. I tried it with a panther several times and it worked pretty well in the cave entrance, but the farther down I got the more disruptive it was to have charm break. At one point, I had 3 adds on me when charm broke and Ensnare had just worn off on my pet, so I died hideously.

If you want to charm there, I'd recommend grabbing an anaconda and run around smacking griffs, anacondas or Potemaids.

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Haysoos
10-31-2002, 01:39 AM
I just started using charm in PoM and it's working great. I figured out that charming a mob that doesn't summon makes me live a lot longer :p
So I grab grink1 and clear alice and archers. Great xp too, can't wait for dire charm. I haven't really bothered using glamour though, seems grink is lacking in the MR dept. Supplement pet damage with Blades, Drones and Epic. Sometimes throw on WD if I can afford the mana. Savage spirit also works great, but I've been caught off guard a couple times and almost been eaten alive by my rat friend, hehe.
Buff myself with PotC, MotS, SoW, Bladecoat and RotG. Also have FT1 and MC1 and that usually provides enough mana, but if I have a messy fight usually means medding for a while. With KEI, can pretty much go non-stop.

Winlulu
10-31-2002, 11:26 AM
I do not know this first hand, but a guildie of mine said that there are no animals DCable in PoM.

Daki666
12-09-2002, 02:04 AM
At 60 or so with decent gear chardok ramp is great if you can reach captain room and break it (root pull in any risky pull is the way to go), wardog are imho the best pet in chardok to charm with CoK stick around that place unless you got like a C3 and a decent amount of flowing thought. Mangler are pretty okay too, another name i don't remember which pop'd otw to herbalist were nice, all rest are bad charm breaker or so iirc.

If you want challenge and good xp, then go to Enslaved Iksar Miner, 2% aa/ kill. Up to there nothing summon yet.

If you want high challenge (call me suicidal) but xp won't be worth it compared to difficulty, then try the break of herbalist or even Overseer/Kennelmaster :) For this last part though i'd advise you start off decently buffed, even by herbalist very few mobs are summoning.