I have been unsuccessful in getting this spell yet even though I have done very well in LDoN. Just haven't gotten groups that want to go to Tak enough. Does anyone have this spell yet and what do you think of it if you have had opportunity to use it. Would like some feedback.

Thanks

People have posted in other places about this.

General comment seems that the spell is useless.

Unless you feel the need for yet another DoT to stack on a mob.

If I need to stack I find that Swarming Death, Immolation of Ro, Epic, and Winged Death are plenty.

People reporting high resists with this spell. This requires you to first debuff fire. Since that takes more time, it kind of defeats the purpose of a fast acting spell. If you are in a hurry you might as well use Swarming Death. Lasts six seconds longer but you make up the time because you don't have to cast Hand of Ro first.

I don't have this spell yet so I'm just repeating what I read.

Immolation of ro debuffs fire too, not as much but it's something to keep in mind. (since I also do not yet have the spell.)

Dangit glynn i always wanna go to tak! (i want that id4 belt) Let me in group sometime! :)

I finally got this spell and have had no resists with it. So far I love it. Have only used it in LDoN and usually when we have more than one mob I'll root one dot it with this spell then Nuke other. So far it works great and yes Mepper we need to get you this spell too :)

Does this spell stack with Immolation of Ro?

Sil

Yes, it stacks.

how many tak raids ya need to do before you can buy this spell? (not how many points needed for spell, but how many tak raids before you can use total points to buy it)

thanks

Raids or adventures?

Spell costs 650 points so at 51 points an adventure it would be 13. If you fail every adventure that is 13 points per adventure you are looking at 50 adventures.

So the answer anywhere between 13 and 50 - this only applies if your 65.

the new LDON dots are just useless, I got vengeance of tunare only because there weren't really much else to spend points on.

don't stress about getting this.

Originally posted by sera
the new LDON dots are just useless, I got vengeance of tunare only because there weren't really much else to spend points on.

don't stress about getting this.


imho their not useless. 300 damage a tick is pretty nice.

Remeber all these DoTs stack with your existing ones.


Tils

So you need to get all 650 points from taks before you can buy it? Or can most of the points come from bb, mmc etc and then just a couple raids from taks? See, its the minimum of the taks that I'm wondering about because I already have 510 points and it doesn't appear as if maelin's tak spot is a hot place for ldon.

I love this spell. 300 points per tick plus 8 curse counters and it stacks with our other spells? Can't go wrong. I use it exping and on mobs during raids. Word of caution though, stacking it with Swarming Death and Immolation of Ro will draw you mucho aggro, so be warned!

Wildaiena you need 650 from Tak to get the spell but thats only acculimated points


For example

you have a total points of 300 in tak and then spend that so you have 0 total adventure points avaliable...but your total points would still be 300.

Then you get a total points of 1000 in guk.


You only would need 350 more in total points of for tak....because the adventure points avaliable would be Tak + Guk.

Does that make sense?


Tils

Yes Wildaiena, the number of adventures I gave you must all be in Tak. If your lucky and succeed at all your Takish adventures then you only need 13.

I'm sorry, but creating a line of dots for druids is just retarded.

Raid wise, t's just not what we do anymore, we're support healers.

If you want to dot your heart out, that's fine. However your contribution DPS wise is insanely low compared to say a Necromancer, and you don't even have subtlety, feign death, or DA to avoid overaggroing (which you will get).

Burning Affliction IV says minimum 30 seconds for it to kick in.

VoT according to lucy is 5 ticks (which can be 30 sec depending on how you could).

So the question, when casting VoT does BA4 always kick in? Never? Sometimes?

Especially with the new BA4 augment available now, I think many druids would like to know!

- Xylem, E'ci

Maybe I am retarded, but I always stack dots on the mobs when I have a free few seconds available during raids. I at least hit em with my epic and swarming death. Dots stack among druids and we can put out hellaciously large damage over time on a mob during a raid. IMHO every bit helps. 5 druids throwing swarming death on a mob is 1250 damage every tick....that can add up to some pretty good extra damage. Again, I may be retarded but personally I feel every bit of damage to a mob helps up dps and makes for a faster kill.

I'm sorry, but creating a line of dots for druids is just retarded.

Not all druids are raiding druids, DoTs are the #1 way for druids to solo high hp mobs(Or summoning mobs.) When I'm not raiding I like to take up the challenge and see what mobs that summon I can kill. 1 more dot only helps me do it more efficiently. Some may like to nuke/tank summoners but I still prefer to root/snare if I can and run away from the summons. Though if mob is immune to snare, nuke/tanking can be quite effective if you've got the right aa's.

Ok got mine tonight after a hard slay mission, was much fun and can't wait to try it out! :)

I've tried mine out. /shrug more dps. I can approach the dps of chain casting Summers Flame now. And burn up buttloads of mana.

I can't wait to get this spell.

If they resists are the same as IoR, then it will be a great boon for us pvp druids :p

Wtb 12 more ldon groups in tak pst!(sz)

I got it.. love the idea of another DoT spell since when I solo I root and DoT. I haven't found much use for it in LDoN since mobs die so fast. I tried a few times.. casting on "incoming", but I got one tic message then dead. Lotta mana for 300 damage. Actually I have gotten two tics in but so infrequently it isn't worth memming in LDoN.

Anyway, for non LDoN it's great :)

I got the spell and tried it out, but I don't think it's going to see much use unless they fix a couple things about it.

For one, it's conjuration, and all our other firebased dots are evocation. There's not many conjure specialized druids around, so it doesn't benefit from the more common evoke specialization.

Also, it's 30 seconds long, and affliction efficiency items are presently set to only work on DOTs that last 36 seconds or more, so it doesn't benefit from dot efficiency focus either.

Add those together, and you get one manahog of a DOT. Nice DPS, but with both those penalties, it's more manaefficient to use a nuke. So what's the point of it? If it's supposed to be fast damage, it still isnt' as fast as nuking, and more traditionally the point of DOTs was slightly better efficiency.

I think the best thing to fix it would be make afflicition efficiency work on 30 sec spells, and change VoT to evocation. Could also reduce it to 250 a tick and lengthen the duration to 6 ticks, or leave it 300 a tick, change it to 6 ticks, and raise manacost to 425 or so.

Without something though, it's very close to useless.

Useless? Heh what are you smoking? With just the addition of this spell I can solo 2 more mobs before repop than before.....with kei and focus bracer of course which takes damage up to 360/tic.

This spell lasts nearly the whole duration in LDoN groups too, even with PoTime equipped players (mobs still die fast but 1-2 tics is largely exaggerated-maybe you should invest in spell haste =p). Plus it's nice to cast on mobs awaiting the MA's attention, unless they are being mezzed.

Wild

maybe you should invest in spell haste =p

Sera does have a 30% spell haste AND is in Time.

Ok, to make this a little more clear:

Vengeance of Tunare, base 1500 damage / 355 mana.

With only 50 spec, only standard mana conservation focus, and with burning affliction 4, it's

1657 damage/286 mana, for a total of 5.8 damage/mana.

Immolation of Ro is base 1400 damage / 320 mana. With that, an evoc druid gets 200 spec, AEIV mana conservation, and BAIV.

1547 damage/211 mana, for a total of 7.3 damage/mana.

That's a whale of a difference.

Looking at Summer's Flame, 1400 damage/355 mana base, with 200 spec, summer's anger focus, improved damage 4 and critical nukes, it's

1729 damage/243 mana, for 7.1 damage/mana, nearly as good as DOTs.

VoT is TERRIBLE, it's sole use is if you are interested in stacking dps on a single mob at the expense of mana efficiency.

You'd solo more mobs faster not using it, either by nuking them down quickly with summer's flame, or root/dotting 2 mobs at once and using efficient dots.

Good analysis, Pinepath.

Pinepath your analysis is biased in that you give Summer's Flame and Immolation the best possible situation and then give Vengeance of Tunare a "Standard" situation.

As for DPM, by Vengence having a 24 sec duration it was obviously built for DPS more than DPM.

Personally I bought the spell becuase I have the goal of owning all spells. I have yet to use it, but soloing I could see myself stacking this with others.

P.S. on another issue as I pointed out in another forum DoT's over the last few expansion have not increased at the same rate as DD's, they are no longer becoming a viable option to cast, yet they keep throwing them at us.

Actually, I was consider the standard situation in all the cases. I actually have better than ID4, but didn't count that on the nukes.

Part of the point is that the "standard" solution IS the best solution for VoT. No druid I know is conjure specced. Affliction efficiency does NOT work on VoT, so standard mana conservation is the best you can get. That's the point neh?

You're only looking at it one way. To say it's useless doesn't take into account how nuking something down compares to root/dot.

Before I got VoT, I could kill 4 mobs before repop and even if I constantly sat and med when possible, doing 5 was unlikely.

With max crits, max FT, max root, nuking is an option, but not one I mess with regularly because you can't count on crits, root breaks often enough to be a pain, especially in tight quarters, and even with kei it takes a while to med to full, even with mana cons items, max ft/AA taken into consideration.

Root/dot, however, allows me to stack 5 dots and med while it works, without messing with re-rooting, killing at a decent pace.

The difference to me was...rather obvious, but I guess if you don't like using dots, you'd think you'd play a wizard.

Edit: Oh yea, I just think you're generalizing too much, for one of the reasons I dot is for greater benefit out of my bracelet of darkness vs. ornate gloves. Fine and dandy you prefer something else, but doesn't mean you know it for every situation as the difference I saw was much more obvious than the numbers may lead you to believe.

Wild

Originally posted by Pinepath
You'd solo more mobs faster not using it, either by nuking them down quickly with summer's flame, or root/dotting 2 mobs at once and using efficient dots.

OK, let's say it correctly. You would not solo mobs faster without it, you'd solo mobs >more efficiently< without it. But if I'm root/rotting a mob, it WOULD go down faster with VoT. The Summer's Flame argument is not apples-to-apples, since VoT is level 64 and obtainable by anyone who's got 13 wins in Takish (basically), Summer's Flame is 65, and a rune drop is required, plus to nuke down a mob you need a big mana pool, but most druids could root/rot high HP mobs easily because you go through mana slower. As far as root/rotting two at once, that is a good point, but not always an option. But that's already true. If I'm root/rotting one mob, I lay on all my dots, if I'm doing two, I lay on less DoTs per mob. Which ones do I skip? The ones that are less efficient. So, does that make the less efficient DoTs bad? No, it just makes them less efficient!

Tat

Summer's Flame is 64.. not level 65.

but I guess if you don't like using dots, you'd think you'd play a wizard.


Let me borrow your argument with a slight twist: "And if you love using dots, you'd think you'd play a shaman or necro."

(In other words, folks, lay off the "If you want to X, play a Class-Other-Than-Druid" arguments. They are silly and just don't work.)



But if I'm root/rotting a mob, it WOULD go down faster with VoT.

It would go down even faster with Summer's Flame, which, as noted above, is a level 64 spell and probably easier to buy in the bazaar than VoT. I use the basic pre-existing 4 DoTs in conjunction with SF while rooting quite frequently when soloing.



Root/dot, however, allows me to stack 5 dots and med while it works

I doubt that. I have a hard time keeping up with 4 DoTs on a mob right now, which leaves me minimal time for medding. With VoT and SD being the duration they are, you'd barely have time to sit down before you're standing back up recasting one of the four DoTs. Keeping that many DoTs on a mob consistently doesn't allow you any more significant med time than if you were chain nuking.

Compare VoT directly to SF as a spell to fit in your root/DoT rotation (i.e., you have the 4 basic DoTs already going on the mob). Now, you have a choice of VoT or SF. Based on damage and mana concerns alone, which one is the better spell to cast?

Heck, let's consider either one in isolation on a rooted mob. You cast VoT, then sit and med for X seconds until it becomes time to cast VoT again. But you can also cast SF, then sit and med for the same X seconds. SF would still be the better spell if you consider damage and mana.


But I'm willing to see your analysis of how one can med while keeping 5 DoTs stacked. Show me the timing of a cycle where you have 5 DoTs stacked consistently (i.e., you start recasting the DoT when you get the message it dropped), and also where you have significant med time.

Buddy, it don't mean that much to me to convince you otherwise to bother going on, counting, etc etc, nor the time in my day.

For sure, both SD and VoT wear off fast, but not so fast that I can't med between recasts and IoR/WD/Epic are only recast 1-2x max (well epic only once at the start). Lately I sometimes finish with WotW or Maybe Storms Fury, but again most of the time it's not required.

The long and the short of it is, the bonus for someone using dots was completely obvious, not to say there aren't other ways of soloing. The integrity of the statement is easily duplicated, so test it yourself. Obviously, you should cast SD and VoT consecutively.

It just tickles me that people reach a certain level/uberness, throw a few numbers around and assume they can convince everyone their way is the only way, making absolute statements.

If nothing else, it's worth it as a higher dps dot to throw on mobs in groups, rather than draw aggro from stacking two.

It was well worth it for me.

And I thought it was too obvious to state, but maybe not. I'm not trying to convince any particular druid not to use the spell, far from it. I bought it myself even though I could see clearly from the spell info it probably wasn't a useful spell in most situations.

I'm more interested in making it clear that the spell is not much use, in hopes that SOE will at the very least, change affliction efficiency to work on 30 sec dots, and in a perfect world, also change the spell type to evocation. I feedback or bug it most days, maybe you could to. They could hardly make it worse.

Nuking is a little bit more effective than dotting, you figure SF or WF cost around the same mana as any single dot does. The only reason it seems like you're lower on mana is because you're killing the mob so fast. I guarantee if you time the ammount of time it takes you to nuke down, lets say 5 mobs, it will take significantly longer to do 5 mobs root/rotting. Take the extra time you got from nuking the mobs down to sit down fully and med. I bet ya have more mana then you woulda stacking dots. I only stack dots when in close quarters and breaking root would be hazardous to my health :)

Scirocco said:

"But I'm willing to see your analysis of how one can med while keeping 5 DoTs stacked. Show me the timing of a cycle where you have 5 DoTs stacked consistently (i.e., you start recasting the DoT when you get the message it dropped), and also where you have significant med time."

OK, here's my one-word analysis: Horse.

When I root/rot, it's almost always outdoors, and I'm on my horse. As long as I'm not moving, I'm medding. I keep 4 DoTs on a mob (epic, IoR, DoD, WD) at all times, rarely missing a tick on any of them. I'm medding 90-95% of the time. When I ding 63, I'll keep 5 DoTs going (adding SD). Sure it'll be a little tougher keeping 5 DoTs going, with SD's shorter duration, but I'll adapt.

With 4 DoTs, I med back mana almost as fast as I use it (well, 2 DoTs are free, so that helps). With SD, that won't be true any more, but so what, the mob will die faster, and I can med back up after it's dead. And the sooner it dies, the less roots I need, so there's some mana savings right there. When I ding 64 and get VoT, I'll use it, too, when I root/rot.

Sure, you can make a numbers case for burning the mob down with nukes, it's not like I don't see that, but you have to remember two things. Not all of us are 65 with all spells and focus items, and not all of us have 6k (or more) mana. And there are a LOT more of us than there are of you. So for a lot of us, VoT is a nice spell that will get some decent use.

Tat

I don't have VoT yet, but I'll probably buy it when I get the points. It isn't much of a power increase for druids, but VoT does have some nice features that make it attractive in certain circumstances. I'll load it when soloing stuff that I want rooted.

I have Enhanced Root, and it sucks. Sure, once in a while, a root will hold for 3-5 nukes, but more often it'll break on the first nuke. For rootable summoners with high melee damage, I use root, then debuffs, then dots (WoN, SD, Immolation of Ro), *then* Summer's Flame, if my hps are ok. VoT looks like a good option for this style of fighting, because it deals significant damage without breaking root. The cast time is also faster than our nukes, so it may turn out to be easier to get the spell off.

The benefits of a horse apply to whatever spell you are casting, be it SF or VoT, and thus cannot be used to distinguish the two. Based on the above numbers, in fact, you'd be better off chain nuking with SF, just in terms of efficiency.



Sure, you can make a numbers case for burning the mob down with nukes, it's not like I don't see that, but you have to remember two things. Not all of us are 65 with all spells and focus items, and not all of us have 6k (or more) mana. And there are a LOT more of us than there are of you. So for a lot of us, VoT is a nice spell that will get some decent use.


Good enough. Although with SF you don't have to be 65, and whether or not you have 6K or more in mana is largely irrelevant to the equation. And the SF focus items are hardly unobtainable, any more than the VoT focus items (and as shown in the analysis above, there is some overlap).

But if you're saying that you are treating VoT as a lower efficiency, less effective spell useful for lower level druids until they level up and get better spells, that's fine...:)

I have Enhanced Root, and it sucks. Sure, once in a while, a root will hold for 3-5 nukes, but more often it'll break on the first nuke.

I have all the root AAs, and I love them. So do my wizard guildmates. Some warriors hate 'em because they say they constantly have to be up in the mob's face to keep aggro, but I tell 'em that if they could aggro a mob properly in the first place, I wouldn't need to root ...:)

The benefits of a horse apply to whatever spell you are casting, be it SF or VoT

Yes, horse benefits apply equally while casting both spells, but not while you're running away to re-root. SF breaks roots, enhanced or otherwise, more frequently than any of our DoT spells do. With Ornate legs and a fast drogmor, this isn't much of a problem. If you're spending mana on roots, and enjoy the acceleration of an 8k horse, VoT may very well make rotting more enjoyable.

It could be that Wildaiena is talking about having time to med while keeping 5 dots on just ONE mob. That's doable.. many druids while root/dotting do mutiple mobs at once though, probably what Scirocco was thinking, though I can't speak for him.

I doubted the ability to keep 5 dots on several mobs and still have time to med too as have done it and know it's not really possible if you were to throw in shorter duration dots into the mix.

With that focus Wildaiena has that will effect 6 second and up duration dots, some come close to the mana effiency you can get with nukes. Horse can be used while nuking too though.. and if just doing one mob, with similar foci and some helpfull AA's nuking it down is more mana efficient. That being said, sometimes there can be extenuating circumstances such as the place you are fighting might be confined, with corners, blah blah blah.

Situationaly dots can be better than nukes sometimes.. that's what makes us so damn appealing to me, the abilty to be effective in such a wide range of roles, places, situations.

I will buy VoT eventually, maybe just cuz I can't stand not having it in case I need it somehow at sometime *shrug* For me at the present time, I'm past the stage in the game where it's useful enough to me to spend the points to get it. If I ever got an efficiency focus effect that would work with it, I would probably buy VoT and mem it in the slot I sometimes have dot memmed in. Like for throwing on mobs I've CC'd off to the side when no enchanter around. Until that time, it's not worth it to *me* to spend those Adventure Points on.

--
Always proofread carefully to make sure you haven't any words out.

You also have to take into account that SF and WF get resisted a hella lot more often than any dots, I can't remember last time I had a dot resisted, other than a 100% MR mob

Ok, don't know how I missed this, but VoT and the other dots are doing 1 extra tick of damage, so base damage on VoT is 1800.

I recall the old dots being this way, but I was thinking the new L60+ ones were not, when they were released. Maybe not, but I had thought Immo of Ro only did 10 hits. Did 11 when I just checked it though.

That brings damage/mana of VoT with the equipment above to 6.96, up to respectable. Still slightly under nuking, but considerably under IoR, as it's extra tick increases it also from what's shown.

Originally posted by Opivvy
You also have to take into account that SF and WF get resisted a hella lot more often than any dots, I can't remember last time I had a dot resisted, other than a 100% MR mob

Huh??

Sorry, thats wrong.

You want to kill an mob with fire? Debuff fire.
You want to kill an mob with cold? Debuf cold.

I nuke kite mobs in PoFire regulary and all resists i get are from e'ci.

But mobs DO resists magic based dots full, while nukes atleast hit for some dmg.

Tubben

Well, on Test today Affliction Efficiency and Haste were changed so they will now work with VoT. VoT still looks like it sucks to me, but that should help.

It only takes one critical nuke to blow DoTs out of the water in terms of mana effeciency, and I crit enough to place nukes way above DoTs on an everyday basis. I guess you could argue it only takes one resist to even the score though. Also, if you add in the mana from the appropriate debuff, the 2 types of spells become even closer in effeciency. It dosen't matter in LDoN because the average MoB dies so fast and mana is rarely a real concern.

DoTs are situational at best nowdays. I like root/rotting with my GF's Necro and that will be the only reason I purchase this spell and a burning affliction 4 item from LDoN. Stacking multiple DoTs with Burning Affliction is something I would have fun doing, and that's pretty much the point of EQ.

Eh.

First off, crits. They only add 14% once fully maxxed to your base DPM. Let's consider for example Summer Flame, which has exactly the same base cost as Vengeance of Tunare. Then you can directly consider damage dealt. VoT is 1800, Summer Flame, once crits are counted, is 1596...

So, even with crits, assuming no mana redux, VoT is better DPM.

Now lets talk about focus items for improved damage. Burning Affliction 4 is the same as improved damage 4, basically. If you go higher up in focus effects, you could increase Summer's Flame damage by another 15% before it would equal the raw DPM of VoT. Plus there are focus effects that increase both the duration and the hp/tick rate of DoTs. Burning Fire, if it exists, would provide a whopping 40% more hp/tick.

Focus for reduced mana usage : Summer Flame is the winner for availability... BUT. There are many focii that reduce mana usage for DoTs of 30 seconds. I have one from VT that's a very nice 30% mana redux on DoTs... Summer Anger is only 20% on Summer Flame... Affliction efficiency, if and when the change makes it live, is 25% mana redux...

Resists : simply put, compared to Summer's Flame, that's a non issue, since both are resisted the same.

That leaves specialization. I guess you would need to be Evocation specialized to see a real advantage there. From what I gather, that is far from being the only accepted build... Plus there is nothing stopping you from specializing to make VoT more efficient... Granted, that may not be too wise, but still.

In favor of DoTs, I could also mention the DoT vs Nuke theory for aggro generation, in which dotting is the clear winner for aggro management...

In short, VoT is not a bad spell, far from it. With the right build, its actually a REALLY good spell.

Callahad

DoTs are an awful Agro management tool. They might generate less burst agro, allowing you to cast them sooner in a fight, but once on, they keep going and there is nothing you can do about them. In most cases, even against PoP boss encounters, if I take agro with a nuke or a heal, it is not fatal. I take a lot of damage and some healers try to keep me up. I stop nuking/healing and rather quickly the Warrior gets agro back.

If, on the other hand, you have piled up a bunch of DoTs and then take agro (either from the DoTs or more likely a heal), you are done.

There may be advantages to DoTs at raids, but agro management is not one of them.

Beg to differ. According to what I call the Nuke vs DoT theory, the second nuke you cast within a 30 secs time frame generates double aggro, the third nuke triple aggro, etc. On the other hand, DoTs stack at normal aggro.... Draw your own conclusions. It's just a theory mind you, might turn out to be false ;-)

Callahad

Actually I'm looking at dots and dot enhancers again.

In the past, root/dot was my preferred method of solo. Now at 65 with over 100AA I don't see a need for me to solo anymore. XP I need I can gain from raids, groups of friends, LDoN. While I know 100aa isn't the end of the road, I just don't want to be finished at this point and rather gain AA slowly.

The shift in "dot necessity" to me came during hard adventures in LDoN. My guild is about halfway to elementals and we have bypassed Vex Thal for now so we are Tier1/2 & high end Velious equipped. Group of us decided to try a hard adventure for heck of it and it whoped our buttocks! We decided next time we returned we'd use dots instead of burst damage. We brought druid, two shamans, paladin, cleric, ranger. With dot stacking the mobs were going down much quicker on the hard adventure. Also less resists than the nukes.

Initially I didn't see the need for me to buy Vengeance of Tunare but now I not only with buy it I will start looking again at BA4 and ET4.

VoT is good... if you don't have elemental gloves. If you do, it's useless and ineffecient. No DoT a druid has can touch Summer's Flame once you get elemental gloves.

I have elemental gloves and mask of conceptual energy from time (with fury of ro focus effect) and I'd still lead with VoT on a mob in hard ldon adventures (all I do). The relatively low agro allows me to do CC, healing, snaring or whatever else I may need to do unhindered. To lead with Summer's Flame would be rather foolish of me because I'd immediately draw big agro. VoT is a great spell because I can do the right amount of dot dmg given what else I plan to do. It's a careful balance. Mobs live about 40-55 seconds, so one VoT per mob. Older dots don't finish in time. I finish with Summer's Flame to shorten the battle still further so the cleric has less to heal. By then the agro scale has tipped heavily in favor of the MT, and by then another mob is inc or in camp. I've found this pattern of aggressive spells to be most efficient given the nature of group combat at this level.

If you aren't using VoT by now then you aren't in the right situations for it. Nothing wrong with that. But something needed to exist to fill this need.

I expect it would depend on what focus effects you have. At one extreme, suppose you had Pernicious Focus (30% mana preservation on dots), Vengeance of Eternity (+30% damage on dots), and Timeburn (+20% detrimental spell duration). That should work out to around 2425 damage on average, for slightly less mana than Summer's Flame would cost.

Well, on Test today Affliction Efficiency and Haste were changed so they will now work with VoT. VoT still looks like it sucks to me, but that should help.

What about Burning Affliction 4 and Extended Torment 4 (both available as augs in LDoN, I believe)? What's the shortest druid DoT they work with?
VoT is 5 ticks, SD is 6, others are 9 or 10 I think.

Thanks,

Tat

VoT has one advantage over other DoTs. It uses curse counters. When your enchanters are pillage happy (Time RZ), you can stack curse DoTs to your hearts content.

On another note, if I'm on heal duty, I prefer to use DoTs since I can heal while still doing some token damage.

I haven't bought this spell and I have yet to hear a compelling argument in favor it. I already have the -mana/+damage focus items for Summer's Flame, because fast damage is an essential ability whether or not you use DoTs. I'm going to keep the nuke loaded for the same reason, so it's not wasting a spell slot.

What I'm hearing is that if I (a) go to the effort of getting two new focus items, (b) spend the points for the spell, (c) waste another spell slot for it, (d) take the risk of making my target immune to mesmerize, and (e) deal with wacky DoT aggro, I can get a spell that will gives me a tiny mana savings edge over what I now use -- <i>if</i> the target lasts for full duration. Uh, no thanks.

I never use DoTs any more, and this spell is hardly going to get me to start.
I'd still lead with VoT on a mob in hard ldon adventures (all I do). To lead with Summer's Flame would be rather foolish of me because I'd immediately draw big agro.
Why on earth would you <i>lead</i> with a nuke if you don't want aggro? Instead of waiting 30 seconds for a DoT, cast your nuke so that it lands after 30 seconds. Then, you get <b>zero</b> aggro up until that point, as opposed to partial aggro from the DoT, and by that time your tank's aggro will be solid.

What about for use against slightly resistant mobs? We've all seen what a difference a -30 resist check makes with roots, and that way you don't have to waste mana casting hand of ro on mobs that won't live for more than a minute.

What about Burning Affliction 4 and Extended Torment 4 (both available as augs in LDoN, I believe)? What's the shortest druid DoT they work with?
VoT is 5 ticks, SD is 6, others are 9 or 10 I think.

Thanks,

Tat
The Jagged Gravestone of Affliction from MM, with Extended Torment IV, does work with SD to give an extra tick of damage. Can't comment on VoT as I don't have it yet.

VoT is very useful. I use it in preference to other dots 90% of the time. Being fire based it's a good alternative to the magic based swarming death. When root dotting it significantly reduces the speed of the fight. I wouldn't use VoT in LDoN as a general rule but there are exceptions for everything.

Personally I use dots, aoe, dd, pet, and rain spells situationally. Good druids make the most of their versatility. VoT isn't better or worse than other spells, it's just a good weapon to have in your armoury. If you want to only use DD's then that's perfectly alright, but you might end up being a second rate wizard instead of a druid.

For those who like numbers .... VoT lasts 5 ticks so does 6 sets of 300 damage for 1800. Extended Torment adds a tick to all our dots, so adds the most damage to VoT.

Extended Torment adds a tick to all our dots, so adds the most damage to VoT.

Are you sure? +10% duration to 30 seconds is 33 seconds - not enough to add another tick. So, unless the game engine rounds up to the highest tick, I see no way that Extended Torment adds anything to VoT.

Callahad

-----Why on earth would you lead with a nuke if you don't want aggro? Instead of waiting 30 seconds for a DoT, cast your nuke so that it lands after 30 seconds. Then, you get zero aggro up until that point, as opposed to partial aggro from the DoT, and by that time your tank's aggro will be solid.


I'd rather do both. Lead with VoT and I'll be FM in a couple of ticks, then nuke. In LDoN, or anyplace familiar for that matter, the MoBs are easily recognized and prioritized, breaking mez by Dotting the incorrect MoB would be your mistake, not the fault of the spell itself. I typically pull with VoT so I am doing dmg while I go fetch another. I'd also rather root/rot adds then mez them anyway, but everyone is different. Just a hint though, if you DoT the adds, you will always get max dmg out of your DoTs.

A DoT druid is a definately a viable build. However, you will have to put effort into it by either raiding for the gear, spending dkp, or doing LDoN adventures for the proper items and gear. I understand how this could be a turn-off to some people, but I find a goal as being both motivational and fun. Especially one that takes me out of the cookie-cutter druid mold.

If you do not get VoT due simply to the new DoT AAs in GoD, I would consider that foolish indeed. Couple that with the correct DoT build/gear, and druid DoTs will easily top nukes in effeciency again. Hell, it's even evocation, and I know that makes you evocation junkies get tight pants. Our magic based DoTs will just be butter on top of VoT.