View Full Forums : Ornate Leather


Hillo BBH
09-03-2003, 05:36 PM
This ornate leather seems to be a great boon for the casual player and light raider. It costs some cold hard plat, but appears to be well worth it. I was wondering what pieces you folks here at TDG would rank in order of importance/usefulness

Onetree Tallbarque
09-03-2003, 07:02 PM
1. ornate legs = free roots
2. ornate bp = free group regen
3. ornate arms = more efficient healing

Aquila Swiftspirit
09-03-2003, 07:16 PM
For the Casual player, over 60, I'd say:

1) Feet: Mana preservation IV.
2) Bracer: ft 2 each will make a significant difference to most casual players
3) Arms OR hat from Manaetic Prototypes for healing make these less important (for improved healing).
4) BP: mana free replenishment... but hard for the casual player to get, I would think?

I see hats and feet for sale in the Bazaar a fair bit, but haven't noticed any other pieces for sale. I may just not have noticed or something.

Palarran
09-03-2003, 07:25 PM
1. legs
2. bracers
3. arms, if you don't have IH4 yet
4. feet, if you don't have MP4 yet (higher priority if you don't have FT here)
5. tunic
(big gap)
6. gloves

...and don't bother with the helm.

Tudamorf
09-03-2003, 08:57 PM
#1 - Gloves - an average 10% mana savings on Summer's Flame makes a big impact for the nuking druid. It boggles my mind that anyone would place the gloves last on the list.

#2 - Bracers - FT4, good stats, enough said.

#3 - Legs - if you need the spell slot. I personally don't like extra cast time, and the mana cost on root is small.

#4 - Tunic. Nice stats, useful effect.

#5 - Feet. Mana Preservation isn't too useful for the average druid, since the gloves already cover nuking and CH spells aren't included. But it's better than nothing, particularly if you're not giving up a nice item for it.

#6 - Arms. IH4 is nice if you use Nature's Infusion a lot.

The helm is of course crap. Who needs Plainsight when you have Mask? I'm disappointed that one of the items isn't Spell Haste IV, like the silk boots. That would have been a much more useful effect.

Palarran
09-04-2003, 04:15 AM
The gloves are less significant if you get the boots. Add in that the only +damage focus a casual player is likely to have is Anger of E'ci, and Winter's Frost looks better than Summer's Flame on all except cold resistant mobs. (Admittedly it is nice to be able to use fire nukes, since they go well with Hand of Ro...) I'm assuming that anyone considering buying ornate has already bought most of their spells. Also in many cases Winter's Storm would be preferable to either of the nukes, which boots covers but not gloves...

If there's a mage around, you could get a mage summoned bracer for +damage, but then you can also get a summoned earring with 15% MP for detrimental spells.

So overall ornate gloves should have a pretty small impact. I guess if you pay the ~200k (on my server) for a ceramic incense burner of ro, then the gloves might be worth it.

Tudamorf
09-04-2003, 11:28 AM
<blockquote>Palarran says:<hr>Add in that the only +damage focus a casual player is likely to have is Anger of E'ci[/quote]The <a href=http://lucy.fnord.net/item.html?id=29031>Ceramic Incense Burner of Ro</a> is a player-made Improved Damage IV item and has good stats to boot. The average price for this item is only 50-100K, not that much when you consider the prices of the various ornate pieces.
<blockquote>Palarran says:<hr>and Winter's Frost looks better than Summer's Flame on all except cold resistant mobs.[/quote]Not a chance, because of Hand of Ro, which practically insures that all your fire nukes will hit for full each time on all but the most resistant NPCs. The effect of Hand Ro is far greater than any focus items. If you're not using it, you're wasting a lot of mana and dramatically reducing your nuking power.

Hand of Ro aside, why would you regularly choose Winter's Frost over Summer's Flame? The ratios are identical. When you consider the effect of Gloves verus Boots only, Summer's Flame comes out ahead. Winter's Frost does slightly more damage if you're chain nuking (175 DPS versus 160 DPS), but this is rarely important.
<blockquote>Palarran says:<hr>Also in many cases Winter's Storm would be preferable to either of the nukes, which boots covers but not gloves[/quote]You mean there's a level 65 who uses this spell for reasons other than farming greens and amusement?

Palarran
09-04-2003, 12:45 PM
Yes, I use winter's storm regularly in exp groups. If the conditions are right (mob has a tank and doesn't pingpong, has low resists, and there are no nearby mezzed mobs) it generally does at least as much damage per mana as my nukes, and more quickly. It also appears to generate less aggro, or at least space it out, so I can lead with a winter's storm earlier in a fight than I could with a nuke. It's a very underrated spell.

I'm well aware of the ceramic incense burner of ro. Availability varies by server. I've not seen it below 200k for some time now on mine. Compare that to the 5k ceramic rod of storms, which gives +23% to cold nukes...

Also don't forget that hand of ro costs mana. If you're killing mobs quickly, it's often not worth it. If you only have time to cast two nukes per mob, the 165 mana per mob is a significant overhead. It depends on how resistant the mob is to begin with, and what debuffs other people are using--if you're grouped with someone that's casting something in the malo line, there's usually no need for hand of ro.

Quelm
09-05-2003, 08:38 PM
With the exception of the arms and the hat, ornate armor effects all save or provide mana:

legs- free root (normally 75 mana)
bp- free blessing of replen (normally 600 mana)
boots- 1-10% savings on non-iCHeals
bracers- FT2 on each
gloves- 1-20% savings on summer's flame

At 600 mana every 220 ticks, the bp works out to around "FT 2.7", assuming you'd try to keep Blessing of Replen up at all times.

Bracers each provide FT2

Boots provide 5.5% of the mana not spent on iCHeals. At 25 mana / tick and no iCHs, this is "FT1.4". At 50 / tick with some iCHs, it is about "FT 2.5"

Gloves and leggings benefits are highly dependent on how often one casts Summer's Flame and Savage Roots. One saves an average of 35.5 mana on each cast of SF. Casting Savage Roots normally costs 75 mana. Nuking with 100% of one's mana at 50 mana / tick makes the gloves worth "FT 5". Root dotting with a root every minute on average puts the pants at "FT 7.5"

Looking at the effects this way, they appear to be all fairly similar in terms of mana saved or provided. The gloves and pants can provide more in the short term, but depending on playstyle, the benefits will often tend to average out lower.

Here's my personal list:
1) Legs: A free spell slot is nice, and it is a clicky instead of an actual spell, so no fizzles, no precast / recast delay.
2) BP: Convienience! The mana savings are on par with the rest of the items, especially when you're refreshing early or changing party members. I just like not having to swap spells.
3) Boots: I do spend a lot of mana on incomplete heals, SF with gloves focus, and dots with AE4 focus (when dotting). Boots are still nice for bursts of mana used on Nature's Infusion, cold nukes and charming.
4) Gloves: These could go above the boots, however I tend to prefer general benefits over single-area specific ones. The nuke focus is great when nuking, but doesn't do anything for me when buffing / debuffing / healing.
5) Bracers: FT4 for the pair.
6) Arms: IH4 doesn't work on incomplete heals. IH4 rarely saves mana, and timing is more important than amount healed on patch heals in my opinion.

It all really depends on what your current gear looks like, as well as your playstyle. The mana benefits are all pretty similar, so just choose ones you'll enjoy using.

Tudamorf
09-06-2003, 03:43 PM
<blockquote>Palarran says:<hr>Also don't forget that hand of ro costs mana.[/quote]And saves a ton of mana. Perhaps my play style is unique, but in a typical setting 90% of my mana goes towards some combination of Summer's Flame and Karana's Renewal. If I don't have to heal, that 90% is all Summer's Flame. I use Nature's Infusion only in special situations or emergencies, and buffs last so long with SCRM that they hardly even figure into the mix. The combination of Hand of Ro, ornate gloves, and Improved Damage IV makes a dramatic impact on my gameplay, allowing to nuke much harder and faster with less recovery time. Mana Preservation IV would have zero noticeable impact on my gameplay; I prefer FT3 instead.

Palarran
09-06-2003, 05:15 PM
Improved Damage IV changes things. Most "casual" people considering ornate will not yet have ID4, but will have Winter's Frost and Anger of E'ci, I think. Some may have MP4 too.

Tudamorf
09-06-2003, 10:43 PM
<blockquote>Palarran says:<hr>Most "casual" people considering ornate will not yet have ID4[/quote]Maybe. But they will also not have FT15, and they will definitely have access to Boots of Flowing Slime. So, choosing the boots will almost necessarily mean trading off FT3, which negates the benefits of the boots.

Aquila Swiftspirit
09-07-2003, 04:52 AM
On my server (Prexus), I see people pricing Boots of Flowing Slime for sale at 60K+; I don't see them for sale very often, either. In contrast, Ornate Leather Boots are often listed in the Bazaar for 16-25K (they fluctuate a fair bit).

I was never able to afford Boots of Flowing Slime, but was able to afford Ornate Leather. I don't have 15 FT, or anything close, but the choice between my old boots (sea wanderers or something like that), Velious boots and the Ornate Leather was clear, for me.

I'm a pretty casual player, and I'm guessing there are a lot of other pretty casual players for whom the choice of boots ISN'T Flowing Slime vs Ornate Leather, but something else vs Ornate Leather, and that's a pretty clear choice for me.

I've never seen any Ornate Leather for sale in our Bazaar other than the hat and boots. How common are they for sale on other servers?

Tendalus Treepimp
09-08-2003, 10:47 AM
lucy.fnord.net/item.html?id=15926 (http://lucy.fnord.net/item.html?id=15926)

Belt of Thunderous Auras - another FT2 tradeable that I often see for sale on Vazaelle server... seen it as much as 140 to as low as 40k.

Aluaeia
09-08-2003, 02:47 PM
Casual players could have pretty high or capped ft if they wanted.

Solstice earring - ft1
Boots of flowing slime - ft3
Belt of thunderous auras - ft2
2x ornate bracers - ft2+ft2
8th coldain shawl - ft3
Eye of the owlbear mother (range slot from hollowshade war) - ft1

That's 14 ft right there, and without any neck slot items, where you have multiple droppable choices:
Choker of the Wretched - ft1
Spiritmaster War Beads - ft2
Medallion of the Arcane Scientist - ft3

Tudamorf
09-08-2003, 08:46 PM
<blockquote>Aluaeia says:<hr>Casual players could have pretty high or capped ft if they wanted.[/quote]Yeah, they could have all those items, if they're already in at least a medium-sized guild and they have 300K to throw away -- which would make them far from a casual player.

Aluaeia
09-08-2003, 10:42 PM
shawl isn't hard to get (2 groups for war), and anymore, neither is pp, plus a lot of those drop at what are now casual accessible exp camps

greggo rumbletum
09-09-2003, 03:54 AM
I think there is widely varying definitions of "casual player" being used here. In my experience "casual" means typically solo, has no regualr group mates/friends in game, so groups are pick up groups. That tends to put things like 8th shawl (and indeed epic) out of reach.

Within our guild we have a lot of people (myself included) who play "casually" (read: as recreation, not all the time, not every night, in bed by 11....) for whom those things *are* achievable.

Romidar
09-10-2003, 06:50 AM
My group (and guild, tho the guild is only about 12 people all told) is casual, but we're a regular hunting group. We're almost all 65. We have a smattering of ornate items at this point. We don't play more than 2-3 hours per night and don't play every night. We rarely raid.

Many of the mobs we fight (e.g., in PoV) do not resist cold spells or VERY rarely do. If I cast hand of ro in an experience group, I rarely have time to follow up with more than 1 nuke - the mobs die too quickly. For that reason, I currently stick to Moonfire. I have the ceramic rod of storms (which still runs close to 10k on Xegony) and I'll "never" have the Ceramic Incense Burner of Ro, which sells for 125k+ on Xegony on the very few occasions there is one for sale.

Boots of Flowing Slime are 60k+ items on Xegony (they were 100k before ornate started dropping more). They dropped as low as 50k and then started climbing again. Ornate boots are 20k or less.

Ornate bracers, when they are for sale, go for 60k+. Gloves are 30k+.

There are rich casual players and my group actually used to make good money. PoP put a stop to that. I've recently started going back to Chardok to hunt a bit when my group isn't on and had almost forgotten how it felt to finish a session with a couple thousand platinum in my pocket (cash and gems) and a few items to put on my vendor.

My situation may be a bit different than others, but my group often functions without a slower even in PoV. It is not at all unusual for me to tank 2 razorfiends or lumbering beasts at the same time with neither slowed. My druid's damage shield is actually useful, so I cast that frequently. When I'm tanking two unslowed mobs at the same time, I can't afford to wait for a complete heal, so Nature's Infusion is cast with some regularity.

In any case, I was using ODS before levelling past 60. Once I levelled my druid to 63, it was clear that mana was becoming a struggle without Mana Preservation (or better flowing thought, of course) - the spells being cast were very mana hungry and all were helped by the ornate boots EXCEPT for TR.

I'll still pick up the gloves too, but I don't think many "casual" players can at all poo poo the value of the boots - decent stats coupled with an effect that WILL help them and is hard to get otherwise. (My group will probably try camping the Boots of Flowing Slime, in which case they'll go to the people who don't have ornate boots first. ;) )