Howdy all and back again for a question regarding Boots of Flowing Slime vs. Ornate Boots. (btw you might want to @#%$ to my magelo for some of this)

I currently have Secret of the Planes which gives me 15% mana savings on detrimental spells and it is a range slot item I do not see myself replacing anytime soon. Should I replace my Boots of Flowing Slime with ornate boots? I'm not planning on buying the boots unless they seem like an enormous upgrade, but as far as I know the MP 4 effect will not stack with Conservation and losing FT 3 would sorta suck in some ways. I could just wear the ornate boots when I'm buffing for raids and then just slip on my slimy ones for encounters (I'm the only 65 raiding druid with blessing etc... in my guild).

Or should I just keep on keepin' on until I feel solid in going in on merit on the MP 4 ring off of TT?

...that gives you the mana savings on heals if you do them.

Perhaps the collar from RZTW...

<a href="http://lucy.fnord.net/item.html?id=7770" target="top">lucy.fnord.net/item.html?id=7770</a>

Over on Graffe's when focus items were first introduced, many figures were tossed around, the conclusion being that mana preservatoin was worth about as much as FT2 in general every day situations.

So I'd stick with the FT3 boots if you're not maxed. Especially in PoP since dying and remedding seems to happen far more often than actually casting enough to empty your mana bar.

Tia

Hasn't mana usage increased since then though? I know my mana regen has increased significantly, and the more mana you use (except on cheal) the more you benefit from mana preservation...

Not really. The bangs are bigger but I'm still limted by aggro more than anything else.

FT is working whenever you are not at full mana, Mana Pres works the instant you finish casting. So just take a look at your playstyle, if you spend more time at full mana than you dont, Mana Pres is for you. If you go full burn and empty your mana bar in a short period of time, Mana Pres will save you more mana than FT2 will regenerate in that period of time.

Tia

You were limited mainly by aggro already, back when focus effects were first introduced?

Wow, I thought this was just a relatively recent thing. I guess I've gained a lot of power since that time, because back then I'd run out of mana well before I could do enough to get summoned (unless I was trying to gain aggro).

...is about mana value over time. I think I saw Scirocco write about it this way before but it could have been Tuda...whichever...the decision is really:

Over the time you are concerned about, how much mana would you save in reduced casts vs how much extra would you regen with FT?


EDIT: REVISED TO CORRECT "SPECIAL MATH"
Example:

You are spam healing using NI primarily for a 10 min long raid boss kill. During that time you cast NI 20x.

MP4 will save you somewhere between 100 and 1000 mana, and probably somewhere around 550 mana (using a savings of 1-10%).

FT3 will regen you 300 (10ticks/min x 10 min x 3mana/tick) mana over that same time horizon.

But for me the bottom line is you want BOTH FT15 AND mana preservation, if you can get it.

Again, my workaround would be to look for a healing efficiency focus for another slot. Between the healing one and the nuke one most of the raid activity is covered...buffs and such are not quite as critical (even though buffs are the real mana hogs).

Shamelessly pushing my own list again, I will suggest you take a look at the link below to see if there are other items you have access to that you could put in other slots and end up not sacrificing FT for MP. My list is still missnig a few effects (like mana preservation for detrimental effects interestingly enough) but it is largely complete. Not going to bother with magic based dmg focus effects I don't think so only a few more effects to cover.

<a href="http://oldietree.com/pages/focuses.htm" target="top">Focus List</a>

First, thanks for all the replies (I lub you folks) :D

I, like many druids I think, probably spend about as much time healing on raids as I do nuking. My best situation is getting my paws on the ring off Terris (only large boss in PoP we've taken down so far is Grummus, but Behemoth and TT are on the way), so the RZ drop is a bit out of my grasp for now.

One reason I asked this question was regarding my boot slot and thanks to your answers I'll not be pursuing a pair of ornate boots unless they drop into my lap.

I'll look into just farming up a Writ of Wisdom from the trial of lashing to save mana while buffing (buffing 7-8 groups with nine when MGB is down or simply saving MGB just outright sucks). This would not solve any mana problems from spot healing with NI, but it would help things a bit.

..but I am a bit confused. Thought the Secret of the Planes required planar access to get.

If you are looking for more readily available healing foci, the mini Behemoths in POI drop a variety of healing related foci.

TT ring is of course a great all purpose one (one I have myself). If your guild does kill Behemoth at any point the force barrier is also a good option.

My favorite MP4 item is the neck item from VZ in Tactics. If your guild does get there sometime soon, he is not that hard a kill and the neck item has the best stats of all the MP4 items.

TT ring does have decent mana/hp for a ring though.

Secret of the Planes is MQ'able.

Aye, I MQed secret of the planes with some friends of mine (one a ranger with no need for a non-bow in their range slot and the other a rogue who has better).

The TT ring is probably my best upgrade at this point (rings being my weak link and face being the second).

While the Secret of the Planes is MQ'able atm I wouldn't count on them not nerfing that in the future, the Signet of the Arcane which also uses a hope storn is not MQ'able.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I think I saw Scirocco write about it this way before but it could have been Tuda...whichever...[/quote]

They're the same person. Am I the only one that figured that out? :)

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>You are spam healing using NI primarily for a 10 min long raid boss kill. During that time you cast NI 20x.

MP4 will save you somewhere between 100 and 1000 mana, and probably somewhere around 550 mana (using a savings of 1-10%).

FT3 will regen you 600 mana over that same time horizon.[/quote]

Oldoaktree, Mana preservation looks right to me, but I wonder how your math works out on FT.

6 seconds a tick?
FT3 = 3 mana / tick?
10 minutes = 100 ticks.
FT3 = 300 mana?

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>the Signet of the Arcane which also uses a hope storn is not MQ'able. [/quote]

Actually it IS MQable, but only by someone who's done the quest up to the point that you hand in the hope stone (or further). But then again, if you're at that point you should have enough flags to get the hope stone yourself.

It is "special oldoak time" that does it.

I was wondering why FT3 looked so good.

Yes, ieg, that is the calculation I meant to do ; ). I will go back and revise my numbers. Think I switched it to a 20 min fight while calcing FT3...I waffled on the fight duration to use, since it depends a lot on what expansion you are talking about.

20min was kind of VT'ish, while 10min is better for most PoP bosses (since if it runs much longer it often means you lost already ... )

Well, if we go back to the early emporer kills which ran a 30 to 45 minute chain, I'm still not sure which I'd rather have.

I know. MODRODS! They are the only way you can support that kinda fight.

God I miss grabbing one clicking 3 times and grabbing the second then starting heals and nukes again.

<twitch> Free mana!

<twitch> Unlimited nukes!

<twitch> Free manaburn!

<twitch>

FT3 vs MP4 is a tough decision. In fact to me its right on the edge, and I think I'd do both. FT3 for recovery of mana, and put on the MP4 boots for long burns, or lots of healing.

Iegil

The break-even point is at 3/0.055 mana consumed per tick: 54.5. Basically, if you regularly operate with more than 54 mana/tick, MP4 wins. Caveat: If you're spending a lot of mana on KR, TR, or spells activating higher conservation foci like Affliction Efficiency 4 or Summer's Anger, MP4 isn't helping as much. Subtract the mana spent on these spells to find your mana output affected by MP4.

For xp grinds - where mana consumed = mana regenerated, Horse (21) VoQ (18) P9 (9) Mask (4) MC3 (3) puts you at 55, and the MP4 ends up saving you as much mana as FT3 provides. If you start throwing in necros, shadowknights, bards or beastlords with their additional shared manaregen abilities, MP4 is an even better proposition.

In a raid situation, it is very easy to exceed 54 mana / tick output. If you start at 5k, regen 80/tick and are oom after 10 minutes, you're spending 130/tick. If even half the spells you cast are affected, MP4 wins.

I wear MP4 boots over FT3 for two reasons: NI cast in quick succession can really burn mana (500/tick with no interrupts), and Winter's Frost/Storm offer higher DPS than Summer's Flame. I like having extra mana available in critical situations, and I opt for faster damage sometimes, despite having ornate gloves.

In situations calling for Summer's Flame (if you have ornate gloves), heavy dot usage (when??), or lots of 10-second heals, FT3 is more efficient. To the original poster with conservation of solusek, MP4 will really only help with NI, NR, p9/b9 and a few other spells.

But for me the bottom line is you want BOTH FT15 AND mana preservation, if you can get it. ----oldoaktree

Damn I have never heard of a FT cap. Am I just ignorant of this? I see guys in uber guilds with FT25 even FT30. Maybe they are just over the limit accidently but FT15 seems like WAY too low of a cap considering that ther are tons of high FT items out there in PoP and other places. Just go to Magelo and chekc out any high end Druid and see what his FT is at. They are ALL over FT15.

Yes, FT 15 is the limit. You can add 3 more mana per tick with AAs, for a total of 18 mana per tick. The upside is that all spells/clickables stack on top of the 18.

Emps shawl is like throwing on another FT 5 for free.

FT III is better than MP IV for the average druid. The gloves give you double the mana reduction on Summer's Flame, which, when combined with Hand of Ro, makes Summer's Flame the only sensible DD to cast in most situations. Percentage heals are already excluded from MP IV. So unless you're constantly casting Nature's Infusion or you're a charmaholic, you'll only see an occasional benefit from MP IV whereas you'll see a constant benefit from FT III.

Yeah, that's why I haven't bothered with ornate boots yet. With the glove focus for SF, affliction efficiency 4 item, and clickable roots, what exactly would I save mana on? The couple times an hour I have to use nature's infusion?