Apologies if someone else already posted this but I didn't see it anywhere...

Anyhoo, just confirming that they did indeed remove the snare effect from our epic dot with the last patch!

See this as a fix or a nerf... you decide ;)

Personally I see it as a fix, thanks verant!

I dunno...in some ways its a nerf in some its a fix...for rare luclin nd veloius/kunark mobs its nice because its added dmg now, but when i solo its a pain cause ensare sux compared to former epic snare.

all they gotta do now is reduce the dot time, or increase the dot damage and make it equivalent to necro/shammy epics. 3 minutes for what winged death does in one is crap for an epic imo.

Tilerin

I definatly catagorize it as a nerf. Heres why:


1.) They took a portion of the effect off, but didnt reduce the cast time or anything else to balance that.


2.) I like the snare


3.) My warriors SoD, still procs against giants. Does full damage, just get a message saying, This target is immune to the stun portion of this spell. ....... so why cant they just change the epic like that eh? Soandso is gripped by nature's warth. Your target is immune to the movment changing effect of your spell.


Anyhow, my 2 cents


Kerilar Oakenfeather
Xegony

Regardless of the duration, it's still a mana free DoT for around 1600 damage.

Ensnare lasts what, 10 minutes? Compared to the 3 minutes of the epic snare? I'll take the 10 minutes thanks. Not like Ensnare sucks down a lot of mana. It's superior to the Epic snare component in every way (except the minor mana cost).

I much prefer the epic without the snare side effect. So far I've yet to cast the epic effect and get it resisted now.

It's the biggest nerf in the game atm...if it wasn't for the stat bonuses I would throw the "epic" away and renounce Karana. What they did to our "epic" is a disaster for us.

The powers to be have reduced the viability of our so-called "epic" weapon and made it a slightly more useful item than the Acrylia studded cloak I wear.

We should demand a total rework of the epic weapon to something more useful and desireable. I, for one, will never encourage another young Druid to aspire to the "epic" weapon....it has become very mundane.

I'm sorry, but I have to agree with Tallarain. 1) I kill many things I solo in under three minutes. 2) Being able to cast root immediately after casting "Snare" with the epic saved me much time and trouble in tight areas. 3) It's been this way for years! How can they assume it's going to be universally appreciated?

I have to agree that the correct fix would have been to treat "snare" effects like stuns, and give partial immunity.

Druids asked for this, or so I am told. So it stacks with necro epic now, fine. It lands on unsnarable mobs, fine. So you can snare something for 10 minutes, fine.
Personally, I liked using it to snare and am having to learn to adjust. I think it's a shame they couldn't alter it in some way other than remove the effect - such as separating the components, speeding it up, anything to not render it a long duration version of my dot bracer :)
Still, it's my epic. I busted my @#%$ for it, and it has nice shiny green leaves coming out of it. And it still does hurtful things to other things. It might conceivably end up in a backpack one day (like it does now when I am fishing and tailoring), but it will never be reduced to taking a spot in my bank.

It's the biggest nerf in the game atm...if it wasn't for the stat bonuses I would throw the "epic" away and renounce Karana. What they did to our "epic" is a disaster for us.

The powers to be have reduced the viability of our so-called "epic" weapon and made it a slightly more useful item than the Acrylia studded cloak I wear.

We should demand a total rework of the epic weapon to something more useful and desireable. I, for one, will never encourage another young Druid to aspire to the "epic" weapon....it has become very mundane.


I hope you were being sarcastic.

Personally I love the fact that they removed snare.f you want a mana free snare get you a pair of ES Gloves to switch out I got a pair for 200pp on FV. Now they just need to incerase the Dmg or Decrease the cast time/duration .


Just my 2cp

When Ensnare and the ES gloves slow a mob 65% then mabe I'll be more happy with the epic change. Until then, all I see is the loss of our best single target snare. Sure it was 3 minutes rather than 10 with a long cast time, but the noticably better speed reduction made kiting mobs such as Elysians much easier.

Im down with the change.

Ensnare >> Epic snare

Epic Dot has been reduced to 2 minutes vs 3 so you can kill mobs faster.

Epic Dot now stacks with necro dot.

Whats the problem?

Ginzburgh

As far as i know and have seen teh duration of the dot is still 3 minutes and has not been reduced to a 2 minute duration.

-MoonDancer

I personally hate the change. Everyone keeps saying "now it stacks with the necro epic", well why didn't they nerf the necro epic so it would stack with ours. Yes ensnare lasts for 10 minutes, but I've never needed a mob to be snared that long and I like having my secondary slot open for something other than just a snare item. I feel like I busted my butt for a mana free dot....Big deal. Honestly with all the changes I've seen them making to the different chars, I wish I wasn't a druid. I should have been a Necro...they can heal, snare, root, dot, summon bodies, rez, life burn, mana regen, and have a killer pet too.

Baroness Aawen Darkmoom
Lvl 60 Druid

You could always start a Necro... :D

Serious though. Like the one poster stated. Our epic got nerfed. We lost a component to our epic. Why wasn't it replaced with something else? Necros, got dot, and snare, so why wasnt theres nerfed? Or, why didn't they just add something else to ours?

Khrono

Umm.. Because they didn't ask for it? Because necros don't have a 13 minute low mana, fast casting snare?

Seriously, I hated the snare component on the epic. It was a pain while rotting multiple mobs, and I always had ensare memmed anyway, since the cast on the epic is far too long to snare a moving mob. It's removal also means multiple druids can stack epic on mobs, which is a pretty big plus.

And how many other epic Druids do you usually exp group with?

How many exp fights are going to last long enough to where you would get full effect off WoN and have it do more dammage than a cast of ES arms?

On a big mob who is going to want you to toss that on and waste an effect slot when someone could use the slot for a DoT with real dammage per tic?

How many unsnareable mobs are you going to waste your time soloing?

You people are crazy. Unless they change the DoT to something a bit more reasonable, this is a nerf, a serious downgrade, plain and simple. Lose our highest percentage single target snare for this? And we have folks that are happy about it? /boggle

10min snare vs 3min snare? Kind of a no brainer, regardless of how how much the difference in the speed reduction. Can't honestly see this as a nerf. Besides it probably needed to be done for the DoT stacking to work....or would you rather not have the advantage of stacking your epic dot along with the others?

"And how many other epic Druids do you usually exp group with?"

Hehe...well I am the 2nd in my guild to attain my epic...we will very soon have at least 2 more...we will be taking FULL advantage of stacking our epic DoTs. Who in their right mind wouldn't? LOL This will certainly be usefull on raids :)

And how many other epic Druids do you usually exp group with?

Do a fair few charm groups in ME ;) Most every druid I know has their epic. And even when it's not running full duration it's still free damage. I'd be happier if it was quicker, but hey.


How many exp fights are going to last long enough to where you would get full effect off WoN and have it do more dammage than a cast of ES arms?

It's not an either or, I don't exp group much, I have limited playtime and it's usually solo/ghetto groups and raids. I do use WoN/DoD click on trash mobs and often on boss mobs too. We don't have a huge number of necros/shaman, so we tend to lay on free dots and nuke.


How many unsnareable mobs are you going to waste your time soloing?

It's not necessarily solo'ing. I know I was pissed off that I couldn't epic most of the shrooms in FG when I was duoing there a bit. The fact is there was a significant number of mobs we could not land our epic on. How is changing that a nerf?

downgrade, plain and simple. Lose our highest percentage single target snare for this? And we have folks that are happy about it? /boggle

Okay, you're telling me that while solo'ing or grouping you use a what, 9 second cast time, 3 minute duration snare over a fast cast 10min+ duration snare because the mob runs marginally slower? And that having this ultra-slow cast, low duration snare is a greater benifit than stackability, and ability to land on a larger range of mobs in the game? /boggle^2

Considering most group fights worthy for exp didn't last more than a minute or two, yea I used the epic to snare. Lower agro meant I could cast it right away, so the cast time didn't mean much.

Not sure where you play, but I have grouped with another epic druid in an exp group mabe once or twice. There just isn't that big a demand for more than one Druid in an exp group.

Mobs have a max of 30 slots for effects now correct? If using DoT's and debuffs in a raid on a big mob, why would you use WoN for a slot that could have a necro or shammy DoT doing 2 to 3 times the dammage per tic?

Don't get me wrong guys, I make FULL use of the new advantages. I just don't like the idea of losing a fairly useful component without compensating the other, like having the DOT dammage done in less time.

Considering most group fights worthy for exp didn't last more than a minute or two, yea I used the epic to snare. Lower agro meant I could cast it right away, so the cast time didn't mean much.
See here I'd find the cast time unacceptable. I'd never really noticed WoN having less aggro than snare though. On short fights it just takes a run of resists to mean you have an unsnared mob. I get enough with ensnare.


Not sure where you play, but I have grouped with another epic druid in an exp group mabe once or twice. There just

I often go start solo'ing then some of the guild druids will join me, doing pet groups in ME. It's good XP and we stack great with decent pets.


Mobs have a max of 30 slots for effects now correct? If using DoT's and debuffs in a raid on a big mob, why would you use WoN for a slot that could have a necro or shammy DoT doing 2 to 3 times the dammage per tic?

Ahh, that's assumine you have lots of necros/shaman on the raid. Lets assume you have 20 slots free, which I think is reasonable. 2 necros, 2-3 shaman is on the generous side for raid turnout, and to be frank the shaman are often busy. Be generous and say 4-5 druids. Lets say the necros and shaman throw two dots a piece on, that's 10 slots down. 10 for the druids. You can either stack two mana free dots and nuke, or DoD/WD. I'll admit I haven't run the numbers out properly, but I'm pretty sure you're better off using the WoN for 9dps of free damage and nuking with your mana instead of dotting. Of course if your guild has a huge necro and shaman turnout it might be different, but that's the situation we currently have. It's not huge, but any free dps isn't to be sneezed at.

I would like the length reduced and damage kept, but it's a nice to have, not must have *shrug*

-Kolen