View Full Forums : State of the Druid
03-18-2002, 12:41 AM
Dear EverQuest Live Team,
The Druids Grove community of players wish to submit this open letter to you today in the hopes that you will read it carefully and earnestly and consider implementing some of the ideas, suggestions, and requests contained therein. Much debate and work went into this document, and it reflects the input and opinions of players of high-level druids who have been contributing to the class knowledge base since The Druids Grove, the first and oldest EQ druids online message board, opened in 1999.
This document is also online and can be found at http://pub13.ezboard.com/fthedruidsgrovegeneral.showMessage?topicID=26783.t opic. It is pinned at the top of the General EQ Forum along with feedback to Jahaar's post on the impending changes to Succor.
We thank you for your time in reviewing this document; we know you are all quite busy working on and implementing many of the exciting new changes we've heard about in your State of the Game letters as well as your caster balancing project. We look forward to hearing from you, so please stop by The Druids Grove (http://pub13.ezboard.com/bthedruidsgrove) anytime.
May the Spirit of Norrath keep you safe in all your travels!
* * *
Before Posting <a href="http://pub13.ezboard.com/fthedruidsgrovegeneral.showMessage?topicID=26951.t opic" target="_blank">Please Read The Rules</a>
The State of the Druid in the Endgame and Near-End Game
When EverQuest first came out, the Druid became a class known for its versatility and its lesser ability to fill numerous roles. We could fill in for a missing cleric in a pinch; we could inflict a decent amount of direct damage should the situation call; we had the second best HP/AC buffs in the game; and our damage-over-time spells were a viable tool. We were also the primary teleporters in the game, through sheer numbers if nothing else.
We were not the best in any of these fields; such was the price we paid for our broad spectrum of abilities—we knew this and accepted it. However, if Druids were not the best in these fields, they were second or third, otherwise we would not have been considered viable, if lesser, alternatives to the primary classes in those abilities (Clerics, Wizards, Necros, Shaman, etc).
As the game matured, so did the need for specialized abilities. With the advent of Kunark, Druids became less desirable. Even so, we were extremely viable and popular, and could still manage to fill a variety of roles reasonably well. The druid Kunark spells were well balanced and kept druids in line with their secondary role in a variety of areas, and indeed finally made us first in one field: fire and cold resists.
With the Velious expansion, the need for specialization in the high-level game further increased. A Druid could no longer heal well enough to be considered a viable healer for any high-level group. The disparity between our direct damage and that of Wizards grew. Our mana was insufficient for the tasks required of us. Verant, however, recognized some of these difficulties. In addition to the existing Kunark-era Mask of the Hunter, Druids received Protection of the Glades to help us regenerate mana faster. Protection of the Glades also returned us to our position as viable buffers by giving us a role buffing raiding casters. At the time, Druids and Shamans still could not sufficiently heal for their levels, and Verant responded by giving both Druids and Shamans Chloroblast and Druids Nature's Touch.
Luclin has changed things yet again. The high-level game has jumped another level. Unfortunately, it has left Druids behind.
Where Druids were once secondary in a variety of abilites, we are now lucky to be considered third. Unfortunately in the high-end game, the need for specialization is such that being third or fourth best as a support class leaves us seriously lacking.
The Druid community has held long and heated online discussions over what we feel is necessary to bring the Druid class back in line with the rest of the game. Ultimately, we have come to the conclusion that our primary concern is our growing inability to keep ourselves and our groups healthy in the high-end raid-focused game. There are other peripheral concerns, which we shall address later.
Druids have long served as the main secondary healers on a raid. No ability we have, other than transporting people to and from a raid, is used more often or considered more important than healing. This opinion is held by both Druids and other classes who regularly assign us without debate to a healing role. With the previous additions of Chloroblast and Nature's Touch, the Druid's ability to heal as a secondary healer, or the primary healer of a caster group, was secured up through the upper-mid level of the game. Unfortunately, the high-end game, as it exists now and where it is moving, finds the Druid unable to fulfill his/her role as a priest. The ever-growing hitpoints of the player characters require more healing than Druids are capable of. As players hitpoints increase, so does the damage delivered by the nonplayer characters they fight. This combination has devastated the Druid's ability to heal.
In particular, level 60 melee fighters are easily breaking 5,000 hitpoints, with warriors breaking 6,000 (with full raid buffs). These are merely average level 60s. Those in the most accomplished guilds are breaking between 6,000 and 8,000. Level 60 casters are topping 3,500, with priest classes reaching 4,000. Again, casters and priests in very accomplished guilds are topping between 4,000 and 4,500, respectively.
Your average level 60 druid has under 3800 mana with full enchanter buffs on. Using Nature's Touch, a druid's largest and most efficient heal, it would take a druid 2000 mana and 42.5 seconds to heal 4,400 points of damage (5.5 second cast time with the default three-second recast time on any spell). Comparatively, for 200 mana a Shaman can heal 1,200 hitpoints in 24 seconds (30 seconds when you add the six-second cast time for Torpor). A Paladin can heal 3,564 points of damage for roughly 800 mana (taking into account the 10% healing penalty and the mana cost penalty for a hybrid) every 32 seconds with his group heal, providing he is in a full group. Furthermore, he can do so at level 58, as opposed to level 60. For 250 mana a Cleric can heal 1,500 points of damage over 34 seconds (including cast time).
As you can see, Druids are finding themselves in a position of having to use over half of their mana pool over a very long period of time to heal a single caster or priest, let alone a melee class. This is further compounded by the fact that nonplayer characters are dealing far more damage far quicker than ever before. Even in an area such as NToV, let alone some of the Luclin zones, 42.5 seconds can equal 1,500 points of damage to every member of the druid's group from AE attacks. This doesn't include melee damage from these NPCs. At this rate a Druid finds it difficult to keep himself alive at times, much less a group. Indeed, a Druid will swiftly find himself out of mana with his own health too low to use mod rods and his group's health swiftly dropping.
Druids are the class most called on to be secondary healers. Paladins are mainly a melee class. Shamans are usually busy with buffs, slows, and debuffs. Yet Druids find themselves behind both classes in healing ability.
The Druid community has thought long and hard about a balanced solution to our dilemma.
First, we would ask Verant to remove the 10% serverside healing penalty for all non-cleric healers. We wholeheartedly agree with the 5% bonus that clerics receive, but the penalty has outlived its usefulness. There is no question that clerics are the most efficient healers in the game, as they should be.
Second, we suggest three ideas for bringing our healing up to a point where we are viable in our normal raid position as secondary healers.
1) Change the duration on Nature's Recovery from three minutes to 24 seconds and remove the recast time.
2) Give Druids a group heal—something along the lines of 880 hitpoints healed per member for 900 mana. This in particular was well thought of by the Druid community as it highly compliments our role of secondary healer on a raid or of primary healer of a caster/non-main tank melee group.
3) Give Druids a larger direct heal. Nature's Touch is insufficient for our current needs; the damage-per-second output of mobs has far surpassed the ability of Nature's Touch to keep even ourselves healthy, much less an entire group.
While our current ability to heal in the high-end game is undoubtedly our greatest concern, there are some other issues we feel important enough to warrant review.
First, Protection of the Glades. In light of Blessing of Aegolism and the proliferation of self-casting mana regeneration buffs among the casting classes, combined with increased mana regeneration from Koadics Endless Intellect and AE manasong, Druids have found the requests for PotG to have dropped to almost nil. Most druids report that less than a half dozen players ask for PotG on a raid anymore. PotG is overwritten by Aegolism and Blessing of Aegolism. It doesn't stack with Mark of Marzin (which the Druid community strongly hopes is simply a bug). The hassle of maintaining PotG and the short-duration Symbol of Marzin isn't worth it. These are the reasons. Therefore, we would ask Verant to consider two steps.
1) Give Druids a single-target version of PotG. For most 60 Druids PotG has become a 1200 mana single-target self-buff. Compare with the Cleric's self-only buff Blessed Armor of the Risen, which costs 275 mana. It has recently come to the community's attention that a single-target version of PotG is currently being developed on Test. If so, we anxiously await its arrival.
2) Change the stacking properties of PotG and Aegolism so that Aegolism and Blessing of Aegolism will not overwrite PotG. We do not necessarily believe the two spells should stack, but the aggravation of having to recast PotG five times in 15 minutes because various clerics refreshed their group's Blessing of Aegolism is enough to drive a poor Druid to drink. Simply make it so that neither spell overwrites the other.
Second, the Druid community has resoundingly spoken out against the effect on the Nature Walker's Scimitar. The dual-nature component of its effect means that it has a very high resist rate. The duration of the effect renders the DoT component useless and worse than the level 44 DoT's damage per tick. The cast time and duration also make the snare itself of lesser value. This is further aggravated by the proliferation of mobs immune to changes in movement speed. When a mob is immune to snare, it ends up being immune to the damage portion of our epic effect as well. Last but not least, not only does the Necromancer epic not stack with our epic effect but also overwrites it. The Druid community would ask Verant to change our epic effect to a straight DoT with the same resistance as our other DoTs and a duration of one minute.
This brings us nicely to our third concern: DoTs. Druids don't receive an upgrade to damage-over-time spells after level 53. We would ask for an upgrade to Winged Death—something along the lines of 1950 damage over 50 seconds at level 58 or 59.
Fourth, the Druid class needs the ability to teleport on Luclin. Our inability to transport our groups and guildmates around Luclin has eliminated one of our primary services to a guild engaging Luclin targets. Any Druid below level 57 finds himself unable to offer this service to a group (the ability to evacuate it from danger) since using an evac that takes the group off Luclin is a certain way to end it. Rarely will a group continue if it must spend 20 minutes returning to the hunt location.
The final request is a two-part request. Look at our cold-based spells, specifically Moonfire. Consider giving us a cold debuff line similar to the Ro's fire/ac/atk debuff line.
In sum, the Druid class is no longer the well-balanced, desirable class it was two years ago. Active high-level druids are becoming rare indeed, and we are a broken class in the high-end game. Our desirability has dropped dramatically because our ability to serve our groups and guilds has declined much with the past two expansions. There is little use for a healing class that cannot heal, nor is there much use for a teleporter who cannot teleport. The Druid community strongly hopes that Verant will work with us to rectify some of these issues so that we may continue to be valued by our guilds, peers, and friends.
Before Posting <a href="http://pub13.ezboard.com/fthedruidsgrovegeneral.showMessage?topicID=26951.t opic" target="_blank">Please Read The Rules</a>
We have been discussing and debating and bickering on this matter for over a month. Is this an appropriate time to continue that here in this thread?
The points that have been made are our CONSENSUS. Some will disagree with some points, some want other points added. But the consensus has been reached.
While I was initially apprehensive about asking for too much, also voiced by many others. This Manifesto only addresses balancing *prior* to the other caster balances. Our being conservative with our requests may be overshadowed by other improvements that are already being given to other classes on Test, or that are on their way into the game that we do not know about at this time. Take that into account.
03-18-2002, 01:41 AM
<font size=4>A NOTE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE LINKING DIRECTLY INTO THE THREAD. IF YOU AGREE AND WOULD LIKE TO DISCUSS, OR JUST DISAGREE, PLEASE GO <a href=http://pub13.ezboard.com/fthedruidsgrovegeneral.showMessage?topicID=26999.t opic>HERE </a> TO POST YOUR AGREEMENTS AND DISAGREEMENTS. ALL DISAGREEMENT OR TROLL POSTS WILL BE REMOVED FROM THIS THREAD, AS IT IS A PETITION, NOT A DISCUSSION THREAD. IF YOU ARE IN AGREEMENT TO THE PETITION, PLEASE SIGN /AGREE ALONG WITH YOUR NAME, RACE, CLASS AND SERVER.
THANKS, SALICIA OF THE GROVE</font>
Debates over the main content of this document are over, fini, finito. If you have something to revise in light of Test server changes, yes, by all means, those revisions count. However, if you have shown up here to dismiss the main points, you are more than free to draft your own open letter to VI.
03-18-2002, 01:42 AM
As a 58 level druid I agree to this letter wholeheartedly.
I hope that Verant takes some of the proposed changes in the letter seriously.
Especially the healing, when I find myself as healer in a group in HoT I cannot keep up with the healing.
Damagewise I'm fine, but I would be lying if I said I wouldn't like some upgrades.
I find no trouble when soloing, only when grouping, and I find myself again and again being left out of groups, except when grouping with guildmembers. Being a better healer, might help some on getting me in groups.
Problem is with druids, is that increasing our grouping abilities, and or damage, will also make us better at soloing, and we all know that Verant frown upon to much soloing.
03-18-2002, 02:04 AM
When MF posted this up top with a sticky, I don't think her purpse was to encourage further debate as to its validaty or its content, but rather for the "signing" your agreement.
As RTFM and MF stated, we've been discussing this, whether it was needed, and what should go in it for weeks now. What this is, is a condensation of what seems to be the consensus of the community.
As I've said with every draft, this is not the thread for arguments. We've done that aplenty. This is thread is for a show of support.
That being said:
Aidon Rufflefuzz, Level 60 Druid on Karana concurs with and supports this document and the changes suggested therein.
03-18-2002, 03:30 AM
I would like these changes implemented.
Legion of Temptation
03-18-2002, 04:17 AM
Venerable Iisbliss Wyldnymph
354 Days Played
03-18-2002, 04:35 AM
/signs her name
"do what M-B did and require that each person sign their name, class, level and server"
Ah, good idea, here goes:
Level 59 halfling druid of Karana
Mith Marr server
03-18-2002, 04:58 AM
Level 55 druid, Tunare
03-18-2002, 05:12 AM
As a level 60 Druid, I agree with these changes... Looks good all around... All suggestions sound just about right!
:signs his name
03-18-2002, 05:13 AM
/signs on with Aidon and the grove. T'was a long and interesting debate.
Guildleader Natural Selection
03-18-2002, 05:15 AM
Sign me up.
Couldn't agree more.
After 3 years and 60 levels on my main I really can tell that playin a druid isn't that much fun anymore if you're raiding all the time.
60 druid on Cazic-Thule
03-18-2002, 06:05 AM
03-18-2002, 06:05 AM
I think you should lock this thread to avoid any discussions... there is no point in 1000 "i agree" posts and we risk players who diagree (see above) posting too late to the discussion...
EDIT: Ignore above comment.. Salicia has a good point... :)
/agree (also realized I forgot to sign this before.. got interupted mid post)
03-18-2002, 06:09 AM
I support this.
Wanderer of the 56th Season
03-18-2002, 06:15 AM
Thanks to everyone involved in this discussion and creating the final draft.
60th Hierophant Xev
P.S. Moderators please remove any discussion posts here. We discussed it in detail elsewhere and can continue the discussion in other postings. I think a simple agree or disagree is enough in this message.
03-18-2002, 06:28 AM
I add my support to this letter. The ability to heal in high end encounters is sorely lacking when that is the role I find myself thrust into quite often.
EDIT: Adding my character name, level and server, then again, it's in the sig...
FULL NAME IN GAME: Batou of The Nexus
CLASS AND LEVEL: DRUID, 60
SERVER: Karana Server
03-18-2002, 06:33 AM
Level 60 Druid
03-18-2002, 06:44 AM
Keryia Winterwolf, Druid 57
Venerable Hierophant (60 Druid)
Officer - Draco Invictus
03-18-2002, 07:03 AM
54th Wanderer of Tunare
Officer of Strange Brew
Jenkin The Druid
03-18-2002, 07:16 AM
Great letter. I hope they make these changes.
And I don't want it to seem like we're all getting new goodies, so we're all excited. These are things that we should have had a long time ago. I believe with these changes we'll finally be put on the stage with other high end classes that are considered essential for raids.
I support these proposed changes.
03-18-2002, 07:24 AM
nothing too add, U just make a really good sum of druids problem and the solutions are the ones I expected for a long time now
hierophant lvl 60
03-18-2002, 07:30 AM
Sobe the Wanderer
Mith Marr Server
03-18-2002, 07:49 AM
Aenara Wyldhart, Level 60 Druid on Prexus
03-18-2002, 07:59 AM
60 High Priestess
03-18-2002, 07:59 AM
60th Hierophant of Xev
03-18-2002, 08:20 AM
I agree whole heartly.
Level 26 Druid
03-18-2002, 08:31 AM
Level 58 Druid
03-18-2002, 08:52 AM
My sole and ONLY EQ character being level 58 aggrees 100%
Thanks to all those who had a hand in this.
Lets pray for Verant to read it with an open mind.
03-18-2002, 09:31 AM
55 Druid here aggrees.
We so need ports to Luclin. I spent over an hour getting everyone to the moon for a group going to The Deep. A port just to the Nexus would be wonderfull since most good places aren't too far from it and most Zones are not that large.
03-18-2002, 09:57 AM
/agree , well said...
Ring of Valor - Bristlebane
03-18-2002, 11:03 AM
03-18-2002, 11:13 AM
/agree as well
54th Tunarean Wanderer
Lux et Veritas
03-18-2002, 11:22 AM
Edited for Brevity
/sign this petition
03-18-2002, 12:19 PM
37th Druid of Solusek Ro
Moderator EQ Druids
03-18-2002, 12:28 PM
I definitel agree
03-18-2002, 12:50 PM
I agree 120%. Especially with the points about not being able to keep up with the demands of healing a high lvl party. Its got to the point where a group of mid50+ cant raid unless they either have a cleric, or have 2+ druids in the party.
Also regarding the ports to Luclin..Why wouldnt we get ports to luclin? That was the one specialty they did give druids in the beginning..was tavel. We have been able to go everywhere wizzards can go to. Wizards can tl anywhere, so why wouldnt a druid be able to port to the nexus?
The time it takes to wait, with an entire party to port up to the nexus is not extreme..however when the druid has to wait for the port up..thats just wrong. I have not changed my bind point (the nexus) in 5 lvls. It would be much more convinient if we were able to do so.
**Of course I woul dlike a group port to the druids bind point ooOOOoo...now THAT would be cool:)
52 Druid of Tunare
Legion of Temptation, Bristlebane Server
03-18-2002, 01:04 PM
Very well written...Thanks to all who put it together.
03-18-2002, 01:05 PM
03-18-2002, 01:08 PM
I agree VI needs to do some serious thinking about the druid class and this is a very well thought out list of suggestions.
druidess of 52 seasons
03-18-2002, 01:18 PM
03-18-2002, 01:18 PM
Legion of Temptation
03-18-2002, 01:29 PM
53rd Season Druid of Tunare
03-18-2002, 01:34 PM
This has my total support!
53 Wood Elf Druid
03-18-2002, 01:58 PM
Agreed. These would make my future a bit brighter. =)
Lvl 47 Druid
03-18-2002, 03:30 PM
03-18-2002, 03:59 PM
Core of Legends
03-18-2002, 04:13 PM
/agree, great letter.
03-18-2002, 05:07 PM
I myself have almost given up playing my druid due to the lack of grouping opportunities.
ahh for the old days when we were always wanted in groups. (
03-18-2002, 05:13 PM
Sounds like a great set of ideas. It has my support.
Angry White South African
03-18-2002, 06:49 PM
I see the issues have not changed much since I was last here. This letter has my support.
03-18-2002, 07:20 PM
I agree and support this letter.
EDIT: Lemba, level 60 Druid on the Zebuxoruk
03-18-2002, 07:42 PM
03-18-2002, 07:50 PM
03-18-2002, 09:01 PM
Level 60 Druid
03-18-2002, 09:44 PM
03-18-2002, 10:47 PM
Druid changes must happen, and soon.
The Druid needs some serious end game work.
[Edit: Just in case my signature won't show on final draft. . .
Gunny Burlfoot, 57th Preserver, Rodcet Nife server]
03-18-2002, 10:48 PM
I must agree for the state of druid post 50+
I put a topic on monkyl business but my english is limited and they don t really understand what happen to us ...
Hierophant of Nouvelle Alliance
03-18-2002, 11:08 PM
34th Halfling Druid of Quellious Server
03-18-2002, 11:10 PM
Very Well written
03-18-2002, 11:33 PM
I agree whole-heartedly !!!!
HOWEVER, you forgot to specify that these new requested spells be VENDOR sold .... or at least most of them would need to be !!! Otherwise we may get our needed class balancing spells but they will all be DROPPED spells that can only be acquired in the Temple of Veeshan, The Ssraeshza Temple, Sleeper's Tomb ......oh and of course the Plane of Growth ( ironically one of the few places our pet spell drops / cute joke VI :( /cry )
Anyway, here's hoping that our cries are heard ! :)
Druid of the 56th Season
[sig file too large]
Meresya Wolf Lore
03-18-2002, 11:33 PM
After Kunark came out I foresaw the way druids were heading. When Velious was released my foresight was confirmed, and I retired my druid at 49th in favor of more group friendly classes.
While she has levelled since retirement, that is only because she was camping things for other guild members from mobs that gave experience, or when totally bored collecting a smidgeon on exp with a little bit of coin.
I have seen the sheer number of druids fall away from what was around even just two years ago. And friends have tried to get me to bring her out of retirement, thinking it was a waste to retire her, just because the number of druids have steadly declined in an alarming rate compared to previous numbers.
To date, including the newly added spells with the patch going live today I see no reason to bring her out of retirement. Most of the Luclin spells were just group forms of single version spells already had. She has the group version, but never really used it. Other classes have better.
Therefore, I wholeheartedly agree with the proposed changes, and would love to see others made as well, but there is time for those anon. First things first.
53 Druid - Currently Permanently Retired
03-19-2002, 01:48 AM
Lvl 60 Halfing Druid
03-19-2002, 02:01 AM
I'll throw in my support for this letter
03-19-2002, 02:01 AM
I haven't played my druid in months...it sucks to be a "priest" class who can't effectively heal!
Level 58 Druid
03-19-2002, 02:06 AM
[Not here you don't. Take your complaints to a new thread.]
03-19-2002, 02:16 AM
Good list, send it asap imo.
03-19-2002, 02:23 AM
I too beleive in this letter
03-19-2002, 02:41 AM
i would like to see some positive changes!
the address is a good outline
please take some of the idea and go with them.
Hierophant of Midnightfury
03-19-2002, 02:46 AM
there is good stuff in this letter...
03-19-2002, 03:12 AM
I whole heartedly agree. Verant has overlooked us in much of the balancing of classes. We have fallen by the wayside in the rush to improve the other popular classes. I know originally druids were thought to be way overpowered etc. That has certainly turned into a joke now. =/
Leia Wolfwalker, 49th season halfling druid of Morrell-Thule
Random Acts guildmember
03-19-2002, 03:19 AM
Temporarily locked due to trolls.
03-19-2002, 07:15 AM
can only agree to this :)
Server: Tarew Marr
03-19-2002, 07:19 AM
Level 59 druid
03-19-2002, 07:30 AM
60 Hierophant of Valoran
03-19-2002, 07:38 AM
Level 60 Hierophant
Proud Druid of Mithril Web
edit Added Level and server
03-19-2002, 07:40 AM
You have the British Druid vote right here, lol.
55 Halfling Druid of Quellious
[Ewoks are cute but sig is way too big]
03-19-2002, 07:51 AM
60th druid Brell
03-19-2002, 07:58 AM
I agree that the Druid needs serious revamping to become a viable class once again. I stopped playing my Druid with the introduction of Velious, even then there was a serious decline in the number of Druid players.
57th Blackguard of Shining Alliance
03-19-2002, 08:18 AM
I strongly agree with the points raised about the effectiveness of our epic weapon. It took me over a year to complete my epic quest, which was finished just as Luclin was released. Imagine my surprise to discover that the weapon I'd worked a year to earn was completely resisted by over half of the mobs I attempted to fight while grouped in Luclin. I can think of no other class whose epic weapon effect is flat-out resisted all the time in battle. The fact that it doesn't stack with other druid epics (or necro epics) has meant that I have been able to use it only while soloing or in small groups with no other epicced druids. I think it's a great weapon but I can't believe it's so ineffective compared to the epic weapons other classes can earn.
55 Druid, Xev Server
03-19-2002, 08:20 AM
Alanen 51 Druid
Raiders of Thought
03-19-2002, 08:33 AM
lets just face the facts, verant dosent care. we can cry moan and bitch till were blue in the face. i sugest you play a nother class like i have chosen to do. the uber part of the game is all warriors and wizards and clerics oh my. basicly brad need to be kitted around the parking lot at verant by a mob of angry druids.
baroness apricot defair 60 lv druid
baron larres headland 60 lv warrior
baroness enrique 60 lv enchanter
03-19-2002, 08:43 AM
the entire list is good got my vote.
<Decendants Of Death>
03-19-2002, 09:05 AM
I would have to say that I agree with all topic made in the letter. Druids in the high end of the game have become used less and our roles have been all but nulified of our usefullness if this letter helps I am all for it.
57th Preserver of Valoran
03-19-2002, 09:09 AM
I agree :)
03-19-2002, 09:13 AM
03-19-2002, 09:15 AM
03-19-2002, 09:23 AM
I can only hope this changes something.
With other classes taking over former druidic abilities, there is not enough left to make us unique and valueable.
Level 60 Druidess of <Magna Charta> on Solusek Ro.
Magelo Profile (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=2014)
03-19-2002, 09:30 AM
One question: Why nothing asked for concerning the druid pet? It should be made into something useful or got the hell out of here.
03-19-2002, 09:46 AM
Druids and Shaman sitting in the same boat for an upgrade.
We're kinda useless after we did our work (Druids port, Shaman buff) since other classes can easily take our spot.
-Heals are a joke in regard of the ammount of damage output of mobs and hp's of the tanks.
-Druids will need a port to Luclin
-DoTs(Druid) and DD´s(Shaman) need to be upgraded
03-19-2002, 09:59 AM
level 53 Wanderer
proud member of Wayfarers of Veeshan guild
03-19-2002, 10:28 AM
Well said. How about increasing the druid drops through out the game as well. Spells, Armor.... Spells
53rd Circle of Storms
Guild Stormborn www.stormborn.org (http://www.stormborn.org)
- Bristlebane Server
03-19-2002, 10:34 AM
03-19-2002, 11:03 AM
03-19-2002, 11:17 AM
I may be a younger druid, but I think the higher level is very unbalanced.
03-19-2002, 11:31 AM
Druid of 51 Seasons
03-19-2002, 11:44 AM
Totally agree and hope these changes are implemented
03-19-2002, 12:06 PM
I'd also like Druid pets to be buffable by others, as they were before Luclin.
-Quelm, Hierophant (60 Druid)
Drunken Tsunami, Terris-Thule
03-19-2002, 12:14 PM
I Agree with the post...and also hope that some of these recommendations do happen for the druid community.
03-19-2002, 12:21 PM
51st Wanderer of Tunare
<The Tree of Life>
EDIT: bah forgot level
03-19-2002, 12:21 PM
I have been level 40, for almost 5 months. I have no real inclination to play my druid anymore, because I am no longer wanted in groups.
"Sow me", "Buff me", "Port me" is all I hear. I tried soloing for a while, and while I can quad kite with the best of them, I have a hard time with it in my head, because why do I pay my "x" dollars a month to solo in a multi-player game?
So I fully endorse this letter....not that verant will listen to it, for I am not on the legends server paying all that extra cash (for any service whatsoever), and would like to see the changes implimented.
03-19-2002, 12:29 PM
Without delay I agree with this request.
Veil of Shadows
03-19-2002, 12:47 PM
/agree say nods her head rapidly in full agreement! :)
03-19-2002, 01:05 PM
I agree with this 100%. Very well Done Miss Foxfyre :).
03-19-2002, 01:36 PM
I strongly urge Verant/SOE give due attention to this pettition. It best represents the distillation of our voices. I have not seen a better written statement of our concerns. I wholeheartedly agree to every point, particularly in the areas of healing and epic effect. "Your target is immune to changes in its run speed," indeed. Bah.
By way of suggestion for a useful (if not defining) role in high end raids, I would like to see 59+ Druids be given an AE heal spell. Call it Healing of the Grove.
Keeper of the FAQ @ www.planeofmischief.com (http://pub57.ezboard.com/btheplaneofmischief)
03-19-2002, 02:03 PM
/agree wholeheartedly. . .
AND I hope VI also works on the stacking issue of DOTs, so that separate people can use the same dots, the same as if you had 2 wizzys using manaburn. But, I know this isnt druid specific, just hope they work it out eventually.
03-19-2002, 02:47 PM
Rodcet Nife server
03-19-2002, 03:00 PM
I agree as well.
In the very least they can nerf our epic.
03-19-2002, 03:25 PM
03-19-2002, 03:31 PM
I would love some upgrades. I would have to agree also
03-19-2002, 04:21 PM
I agree with this letter whole heartedly
Alin Fyrehunter Lvl 58 druid Valoran
03-19-2002, 05:02 PM
Me to me to! i agree also. I don't wanna here send in the druid to take the death touch ever again :).
03-19-2002, 06:14 PM
Name Greer Swiftfoot
Server Tarew Marr
03-19-2002, 06:22 PM
/agree very well done. Addresses the basic needs that druids have in the game. Thank you
03-19-2002, 07:12 PM
I feel the burn of sucktastic heals even at 47
47th level Fier'Dal druid of Tunare
03-19-2002, 07:40 PM
Just would put more emphasis on the Moonfire problem, I just don't understand why it's not in line with our other cold based DDs, I would understand why it would take a little more mana, being it does more damage than Wildfire, but a damage/mana ratio of 2.44 instead of 3.2 like Wildfire. Both our DD lines got better ratio until Moonfire, why that change all of a sudden ???
Treetops 56 druid
03-19-2002, 09:25 PM
03-19-2002, 09:58 PM
03-19-2002, 10:39 PM
[sig picture too large]
FozZicK ThE HaLfLinG coOkiE mOnstEr !
"Eat my Jum-Jum Herb Cookies and Take a Ride on the ...
~Red Eye Express~
The Most Irie Guild on The Nameless
03-19-2002, 11:27 PM
I agree too with all said in this post. Although never really played a Druid (I did to level 12 but fell asleep :p ) with all the changes to other classes Druid's sound like they are lagging behind a little.
Having said that, im sure Verant and friends have got a few upgrades planned up their sleeves for the future so im sure we will see a new 2002 version pretty soon :D
Happy hunting and happy all that other stuff you do....
Baron Jimall Fixit <Shining Alliance>
60 Warlord - Prexus server
Nuttie Professer <Shining Alliance>
56 Templar - Prexus server
03-19-2002, 11:40 PM
Elder Kyla Baileyi
Seventh Hammer Server
03-19-2002, 11:42 PM
Hierophant of morell-thule
03-19-2002, 11:59 PM
I really hope VI listen.
03-20-2002, 01:04 AM
I also agree with this. Although I am a pessimist, I retain some small hope that it will be looked at and acted upon by Verant.
58th Preserver of Tunare
Alliance of the Arcane
03-20-2002, 01:32 AM
03-20-2002, 02:30 AM
03-20-2002, 03:41 AM
So you want us to group do you, when we get 50+ you make us feel like we are the last kid to be picked on the playground. Not because of what we can or can’t do but because they need to feel the hole to get the full group experience bonus. I was added to group in Velketor's Labyrinth recently and when I joined this group I asked them what duties they what’d me to perform, it was not snare, it was not heal, it was to keep Regrowth on the Necro and oh you can buff the pets and heal them too. I am not in guild and because of that I solo a lot. Guilds don’t need Druids on Lanys T'Vyl because they are so many of them. Mine has a born on date of 21 Dec 1999 so VI you have got a lot of my money. I do wish to finish my druid to level 60. I have my epic about half way completed but with out an UBER guild behind me, chances of me getting a jade reaver to continue it are like a GM coming up to me in the game and handing me my leaf blower. Now all I ask is to keep us in the game. Right now we are good enough to give you a ride or make you run fast but when we get you to your destination, you act like you don’t know us any more. And dropped SPELLS this just is not right, on Lanys T'Vyl listen to the auctions, all you here is I want to buy dropped Druid spells. Ok occasionally you hear another class auction for a particular spell but there is so many Druids that need so many of them that we are not specific which one because we need them all. Ok I well get off my soap box now.
I agree to this letter wholeheartedly, and I would like these changes implemented.
Thank you Katn Skybolt Lvl 54 Druid Lanys T'Vyl Server
03-20-2002, 04:02 AM
03-20-2002, 04:46 AM
I agree totally. One fight against an AoEer has me OOM if I am the main healer in HoT. That's ridiculous.
*edit* Forgot server - Quellious.
03-20-2002, 04:54 AM
I agree to the changes proposed
Venerable Wyndfoot Rainbringer
60 Hierophant of Dark Bane
Mithaniel Marr Server
03-20-2002, 04:59 AM
Verant, please take notice of these suggestions.
03-20-2002, 05:07 AM
[sig too large]
03-20-2002, 05:36 AM
Count me in on this, very well written and addresses most of my concerns effectively.
59th level Nature Walker
03-20-2002, 05:46 AM
Baron Kanis D`Lupis
03-20-2002, 06:54 AM
I agree with this.
03-20-2002, 06:56 AM
03-20-2002, 07:14 AM
03-20-2002, 08:02 AM
03-20-2002, 08:13 AM
lvl 56 Duid, Vaezelle
03-20-2002, 08:17 AM
Great document and I support it 100%.
Level 54 Druid
03-20-2002, 08:46 AM
*Rubs his jam stained hand on the scroll, signing it*
Mhythos Chronowolf <Triadica>
55 Halfling Druid
03-20-2002, 09:37 AM
03-20-2002, 10:05 AM
lvl 54 and moving to where this crap will affect me.
03-20-2002, 10:08 AM
Lvl 59 Druid
03-20-2002, 10:38 AM
03-20-2002, 10:40 AM
57 Druid on The Tribunal server
03-20-2002, 11:16 AM
Like the old saying say's, squeeky wheel gets the grease. Maybe this politically correct "Squeek" will do some good, we need improvements. Please read Verant and make some changes!
03-20-2002, 11:26 AM
I wholeheartedly agree and support this 100%
03-20-2002, 11:27 AM
I Agree All The Way!
I my be a low druid but with my paladin I have noticed this and rarely want a druid to heal in my group they need way better healing abilities.
14 Druid Halfling
Tarew Marr Server
03-20-2002, 11:28 AM
55 druid on Druzzil Ro
03-20-2002, 11:48 AM
So incredibly /agree with said manifesto. Struck the very core of what I've been feeling for months.
57 Druid, Bertoxx
03-20-2002, 11:54 AM
03-20-2002, 12:03 PM
Straith 56 Preserver
Legion of Temptation
03-20-2002, 01:18 PM
Level 60 Druid
03-20-2002, 01:30 PM
03-20-2002, 01:50 PM
03-20-2002, 02:06 PM
I totaly agree with the changes listed above.
I do hope that verant would change atleast Some of those things mentioned.
03-20-2002, 02:32 PM
I support this :)
55 Level Druid
03-20-2002, 03:08 PM
I competely agree =)
55 Druid of Karana.
Small but fuzzy.
03-20-2002, 05:02 PM
i agree =D
[signature over limit, sorry]
"Now is the time , get on the right side. You'll be godlike."
-lvl 60 Hierophant of Valoran-
03-20-2002, 07:01 PM
03-20-2002, 07:17 PM
I'm not way up there yet, but even before sup healing at 51 I had a hard time keeping my group up... and I know sup healing isn't gonna do jack on 5k hp.
51 druid of Morell-Thule
03-20-2002, 08:26 PM
03-20-2002, 09:57 PM
ya, i agree... not that it matters. want to really get em to change it? everyone cancel their account on the same day and tell em why...
03-20-2002, 10:51 PM
Again I applaud how well written this was, and I agree with what was proposed for our class.
~56 Preserver of Saryrn~
03-21-2002, 01:27 AM
Nice well written.
lvl 60 guild taxi on Karana
03-21-2002, 02:19 AM
Palarran Taurina, 55 druid
03-21-2002, 03:29 AM
03-21-2002, 04:09 AM
Nicely put! /agree
Level 60 druid
*Edited to put in correct syntax as requested.
03-21-2002, 05:47 AM
I rarely post on open boards but this topic warrants a resounding YES - throwing in my support. Very nicely done!
03-21-2002, 06:29 AM
03-21-2002, 06:32 AM
03-21-2002, 06:35 AM
Put me on the list
Because of the non-viability of druids in the end game, I stopped playing (leveling)my druid out of discouragement. I made a warrior to hedge my bets but I hope that Verant will make druids worthy again.
/em nods in agreement to the manifesto.
03-21-2002, 06:55 AM
-Gruffydd 53 Druid Saryn
03-21-2002, 07:41 AM
03-21-2002, 08:30 AM
*nods in agreement*
03-21-2002, 09:27 AM
Officer, Warlords of Wrath
03-21-2002, 09:32 AM
Kulothar - Lv 55 Epic Dinosaur.
Preserver of Tunare
Mith Marr Server
03-21-2002, 09:51 AM
I agree :)
Lvl 60 druid Hierophant on tribunal server
Member of Sol Invictus
03-21-2002, 10:06 AM
I don't want to start over. But it's looking like if I want to participate in the game post-50, I'm going to have to.
03-21-2002, 10:12 AM
03-21-2002, 10:14 AM
Having found myself forced to always solo after almost exclusively grouping up to level 50, I also agree.
53rd. Wanderer on Zeb
Exile of Cobalt Scars
03-21-2002, 10:26 AM
/agree Whole Heartedly
03-21-2002, 10:28 AM
I fully concur. The ability to keep my melee group alive when raiding a First Brood is impossible.
Druid/60 Rodcet Nife
While it is a nice sig, it is over the limit
03-21-2002, 11:26 AM
I will say that I would have to agree. We are slowly falling behind in the "race" wars. We are even the 2nd class porter, wizards have taken over the "raid gigs" simply because of TL's.
59 Preserver of Bristlebane
Proud Officer of the "Legion of Temptation"
03-21-2002, 11:51 AM
I totally agree.. As a 60 level druid who's been playing since 1999, I've seen our class diminish in it's strengths compared to other classes. I hope Verant will take this letter seriously and help us achieve the level we once had.
03-21-2002, 12:09 PM
I agree with this totally
Llanis Silverleaf <The First Seal>
Wanderer of Tunare.
03-21-2002, 12:43 PM
I totally agree with this thread.
I've been making posts about similar things lately on other boards (My Servers board, Guild Board, and the EQDruids Forum.)
Basically all that was in this post summed it up perfectly for what I think us Druids deserve.
Hopefully VI will take a look into this and can start helpin us Druids out!
03-21-2002, 04:38 PM
I agree mostly.
60 Hierophant on MM
03-21-2002, 07:22 PM
53 Druid, Povar
03-21-2002, 08:45 PM
I'm happy to add my name to this list
Heirophant of Valon
03-21-2002, 08:46 PM
Templar of Warlords of Wrath
Rodcet Nife Server
03-21-2002, 09:07 PM
/Agree with this. Druids were left behind in Kunark, and have never caught up. Our spells...our lifeblood, (cuz it sure as hell isnt our melee) are so outdated its sick.
03-21-2002, 09:10 PM
03-21-2002, 09:40 PM
03-22-2002, 12:13 AM
I also agree. I semi-retired my druid due to the lack of high-level need for them. Even now, I'm only used for porting around guildmates as and when.
03-22-2002, 04:41 AM
03-22-2002, 04:54 AM
Mistryl Corazon, 60 Druid, Solusek Ro
03-22-2002, 05:20 AM
Very well stated. I wholeheartedly agree with every point.
03-22-2002, 05:54 AM
I have had my epic for less than a week, and already I see myself keeping it bagged more than half the time. Great stats, but the effect is TERRIBLE!
I agree with everything listed. And why NOT have PoTG stack with aego? Makes alot of sence to me.
New Dawn Rising
03-22-2002, 06:26 AM
Lvl 52 Druid
Legacy of Virtues
03-22-2002, 07:40 AM
Officer of Crimson Watchers
03-22-2002, 08:00 AM
jedi druid of rodcet
03-22-2002, 08:20 AM
When will this be sent in? Its perfect!
03-22-2002, 08:22 AM
I already signed off on this but was currious. What is the game plan? Has this already been submitted or are we waiting for it to be signed off by as many people as possible?
IMHO this should be sent to Verant ASAP as they are doing changes now :)
Keep up the good work!
03-22-2002, 08:27 AM
I agree whole heartedly,
I loved my druid and stopped playing him at 52, as the class specific need was non-existant. I believe the requests mentioned were basic enough to establish soon, and modest enough not to be a burden to any class.
I hope there are more plans to improve this wonderful class, but anything less than what is requested would be sad.
03-22-2002, 08:58 AM
Feir'dal Hierophant of the 60th Solstice
Rodcet Nife Server
03-22-2002, 10:56 AM
03-22-2002, 01:29 PM
*brushes off the dust*
Why not? You have to trust The Grove and the people in it.
03-22-2002, 02:35 PM
03-22-2002, 03:12 PM
Send it on its way
I can only hope VI actually takes this well written document and actually acts on it.
58 Druid of the Nameless
03-22-2002, 03:50 PM
/agree. This gets my total support
60 Heirophant of Karana
03-22-2002, 06:14 PM
I aggree with this.
Lev 55 Druid
03-22-2002, 10:48 PM
I entireley agree
Hoping verant can make something
Server Vallon Zek
Guilde "Nouvelle Alliance"
03-23-2002, 12:21 AM
I would like to see these changes implemented.
03-23-2002, 01:26 AM
Well written and quite balanced, i agree
Level 60 Druid
03-23-2002, 02:04 AM
Thraen 54th Druid of Dreamcasters - Brell serillis
03-23-2002, 06:26 AM
55 druid. Cazic-Thule server
03-23-2002, 07:02 AM
03-23-2002, 07:49 AM
The Druid was my first character, and the only character I have above lvl 18. I simply love my druid, and wish that those reading would consider to heart the recommendations mentiond here. Thankyou
Venerable Aeaolena Goldenmorning
60th Hierophant of Tribunal
Royal Norrathian Guard
~The Pocket Druid~
03-23-2002, 10:22 AM
50 druid, Quellious, as well as 69 levels of retired druids (can't seem to stay away from the class)
03-23-2002, 01:39 PM
I quit playing my druid over a year ago (at level 55) because of everything mentioned here.
Every class has gotten upgraded over time and druids generally get the slap in the face (Nature Walkers Behest).
03-23-2002, 02:48 PM
Add me on..
57 Druid of <Watchkeepers>
03-23-2002, 02:48 PM
I've put my level 60 Druid in retirement as the class seems broken to me. I hope that some changes are made to make me want to play the druid class again.
/e adds his signature to the manifesto
03-23-2002, 05:08 PM
60 Druid of <Relics>
03-23-2002, 05:51 PM
add me to the list
03-23-2002, 07:12 PM
I agree with this. Please add my signature for the changes.
I am currently LVL 56 and find myself finding less and less reasons to play my druid. And playing my Shadow Knight Or Cleric.
Well hope these changes take place.
Gabbil Gatecrasher LVL 56 Preserver. On Mith Marr Server
03-23-2002, 09:29 PM
03-23-2002, 09:50 PM
It has become painfully clear how difficult it is to feel useful at this end of the game.
03-23-2002, 09:53 PM
Great letter, I fully support it.
03-23-2002, 11:50 PM
As a lvl 60 Druid of Vazaelle I also agree. /sign
03-24-2002, 12:34 AM
well written, i agree as well
elder veto zhir'venhiruum, rodcet nife
03-24-2002, 12:37 AM
03-24-2002, 01:44 AM
03-24-2002, 03:01 AM
03-24-2002, 06:25 AM
In principle I agree to everything stated. Finding a group as a druid is getting to be more and more difficult. No one wants a druid anymore. We can't heal as good as other hybrid classes nor are we good at melee. Our utility is especially not sought if hunting on Luclin as the utility of evac is no longer viable and where there are consistently higher lvl mobs (i.e., Velks).
In lore, Druid powers (i.e., Merlin) far outclassed clerics, shamen, or other caster and healer classes. They used nature to heal; not faith or belief based healing (i.e., clerics or shamen) which required the patient to believe in the healing ability.
If anything, this does not go far enough. One easy way to increase utility is to decrease the time to cast heals; maybe we can't heal as much (something I do not agree with) but we could do it faster in an emergency. Or make a manaless device for druids to cast heals. It is time to balance things.
03-24-2002, 06:36 AM
It's time they balanced the Druid class.
60 Druid of The Nameless
03-24-2002, 07:09 AM
I add my complete support to this document
Druidess, Level 56
03-24-2002, 07:29 AM
55 Druid of Ayonae Ro
03-24-2002, 07:49 AM
Hierophant of Red Sky
03-24-2002, 01:36 PM
Agree strongly! Figg Griffonsquishins 59 epic druid of Unconquered on drinal, master of all trades.
owner of 4 accts, been playing since the week of EQ release
FyreStorm The Druid
03-24-2002, 03:58 PM
03-24-2002, 05:00 PM
-Geiun 58 druid
03-24-2002, 05:32 PM
just want to toss my /agree on this
[signature over limit]
I like the Wizard of Oz
03-24-2002, 05:57 PM
03-24-2002, 09:20 PM
Add 1 more to the /agree list.
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