View Full Forums : Updated DoT Table (Actual Damages and Durations)


Scirocco
08-18-2002, 12:27 PM
Did some testing on HGs last night with Winged Death. First determined the base HP of a couple HGs with rooting and DDing (to within a couple points), then added a WD to the mix for the next two HGs. I tried to keep the total kill time to about 2 minutes in order for the regen effect to cancel out.

First two HGs burned down with MF, rooting, Ignite and Burst of Flame.

HG1 = 2569
HG2 = 2572 (let's say 2570 for round figures)

Next two HGs tagged with snare and root, then WD, then finish up with root/ignite/burst of flame.

HG3 = WD + 1140
HG4 = WD + 1143 (let's say 1140 for round figures)

Thus, the damage from WD = 2570-1140 = 1430

Divided by 10 ticks, we get 143 damage per tick (which is the "listed" damage per tick for Winged Death, natch!)

Thus, the mystery of the druid dot is now resolved. What I was interpreting as more damage per tick was based on the assumption that the total listed damage of, for example, 1287, was divided by the duration as seen in the game (10 ticks, which gives 128.7 damage per tick). That 1287 is just 9 x 143...they were leaving out a tick. The damage per tick is as listed, it's just that the "listed" total damage is based on duration-1.

Thus:

1. Damage/tick is the "listed total damage" / "listed duration."
2. Actual duration is 1 more than the "listed" duration.
3. Actual total damage is higher than the "listed" total damage by exactly one tick of damage.

Accordingly, this is the updated DoT table with ACTUAL damage and durations:

Stinging Swarm: 13/tick, 10 ticks, 130 total
Creeping Crud: 21/tick, 11 ticks, 241 total
Immolate: 24/tick, 11 ticks, 264 total
Drones of Doom: 34/tick, 11 ticks, 372 total
Drifting Death: 65/tick, 11 ticks, 715 total
Breath of Ro: 92/tick, 11 ticks, 1012 total
Winged Death: 143/tick, 10 ticks, 1430 total

aandaie
08-18-2002, 07:23 PM
Wow, had no idea winged was so good really. I always use it but did not know. I only use winged, velious bracer (drones) and epic dot, with that 56 root. Sometimes I'll stick in a sciorrie since its lower mana than winged. On velious giants I'll do all that and go through a couple winged (on blue ones) Those things must have the hp.

Miss Foxfyre
08-18-2002, 08:12 PM
Regarding ticks and a good number (movie quote):

MARTY: Why don't you just make ten louder and make ten be the top... number...and make that a little louder?

NIGEL: ...these go to eleven.


How about eleven across the board, eh?

Remi
08-18-2002, 08:35 PM
What about Wrath of Nature dot? :p

Gnizmo
08-18-2002, 09:17 PM
The listed durations are the correct ones. What you and many others are noticing is the second change to dots that happened with the old dot nerf. Basicly if the subject affected by the dot moves for less than 18 seconds the dots duration is extended by one tick.

Tudamorf
08-18-2002, 10:05 PM
A few questions about your test:

a) how do you reconcile this data with the PvP data?

b) how did you account for regeneration, which is substantial over 2 minutes, thus skewing the result?

c) did you use the same level HG? Unless they were changed, they range from level 33 to 37 and have 2472+20*(level-33) hit points, so the difference between the weakest and strongest could make a significant difference in your result.

By the way, Scirocco, the 1287 number is not in the spell data file. EQCaster just multiplies -143 by 9 to reach that figure.

Tudamorf
08-18-2002, 10:18 PM
Gnizmo says: Basicly if the subject affected by the dot moves for less than 18 seconds the dots duration is extended by one tick.

That's not what's happening here.

The "listed" (i.e., EQCaster interpreted) duration for Choke is 20 initial damage, plus 5 ticks at 12 damage/tick. When I cast it on myself, it does the initial damage (always partially resisted, even after the PvP reduction) and the first tick of damage immediately, plus 4 additional ticks of 9 damage each.

The "listed" duration for Winged Death is 143 damage per tick for 9 ticks (which the program multiplies to get 1287). When I cast it on myself, it does no damage until a tick has elapsed. Then it does ten ticks of damage.

What's really happening is that Winged Death, and not DoTs in general, lasts for 1 more tick than EQCaster thinks, no matter what the situation. Incidentally, any notion of an additional tick has nothing to do with the old DoT nerfs. Those just reduced the damage per tick to 2/3 if the target is moving.

Gnizmo
08-18-2002, 10:30 PM
As i do not have WD nor will I for quite sometime I will not and can not comment on whether there is anything funny going on there. As for my reference to the dot nerf allow me to clarify.

What i meant was it was implemented at the same time as it. The old nerf was if a mob moved for more than 18seconds then the dot would deal 2/3rds normal damage. If it moved for 18seconds there would be no change in damage. If it moved for less then 18seconds and extra tick is added on to the duration.

If you dont beleive me i will gladly get the patch message and post it here. You can also try this out by casting a dot on yourself and seeing how long it lasts when you move for less than 18seconds and when you move for more than 18seconds

King Flamelord
08-18-2002, 10:33 PM
To test DoT damage Watchman Halv in Steamfont is best. He has according to show EQ exactly 1637 hit points every single time he spawns.. (I also confirmed that it was definately in this range by root, nuking him).

Dont' have to do all that extra silly math... used halv to prove that splurt wasn't doing 1300 dmg like someone was trying to say.

Tudamorf
08-18-2002, 11:00 PM
Gnizmo says: What i meant was it was implemented at the same time as it. The old nerf was if a mob moved for more than 18seconds then the dot would deal 2/3rds normal damage. If it moved for 18seconds there would be no change in damage. If it moved for less then 18seconds and extra tick is added on to the duration.

That's not what it said, I remember the day of that patch well. It said that if the target is moving while the DoT damage is applied (at the moment of the tick), the damage is reduced to 66% of the original.

Now, when various nerfs were being implemented on Test to try to the deal with the kiting problem, there was a big uproar from the community because even when you're not kiting, your target often moves a little. To appease these players, Verant said it would also increase the duration of DoT damage (across the board, whether the target is moving or not), such that even if the target moved for 18 seconds, you would do at least the same damage post-nerf as you would pre-nerf. The idea was to only target kiters, who kept the target moving at all times.

Simple algebra tells us that this would involve an increase of 1 tick exactly across the board: if the original DoT was X ticks of Y damage, and the new DoT is Z ticks of Y damage, then (Z-3)*Y+3(2Y/3)=XY, or Z = X + 1.

I can't remember off hand if they actually implemented a duration increase, or if they settled on the server-side damage increase that there is now, but at no time was the DoT duration dependent on whether the target was moving.

This all happened in September or October of 1999, by the way, around the time the Enchanter's Realm (now Caster's Realm) was formed and started archiving news, so the actual patch message might still be archived there.

Gnizmo
08-18-2002, 11:45 PM
DoT Changes:
If the monster is in melee with you, there is no change to how a DoT spell works.
If the monster is running away from you (fear, wounded, etc.), there is no change to how a DoT spell works.
If the monster is moving when the damage from the DoT is applied (happens every few seconds), it will take 66% of the damage that it would have taken.
DoT spells have all had their duration slightly increased. If the monster moves for 18 seconds during a fight, it will take as much damage from the DoT as it would before the patch. If the monster moves for less then 18 seconds during a fight, your DoT will do more damage then it would have done before the patch. If the monster moves more then 18 seconds during the fight, it will take less damage then it would have before the patch.



From casters realm the semptember something patch(man i have a bad memory) from 1999. Though i was talking to one of my druid friends and for some reason he has noticed that WD always skips its first tick. I find this weird, though other spells are known to do this.

BriennaMonk
08-19-2002, 12:41 AM
>>>That's not what it said, I remember the day of that patch well. It said that if the target is moving while the DoT damage is applied (at the moment of the tick), the damage is reduced to 66% of the original.<<<

I thought the damage reduction was on a per-tick basis. So if the mob moved during one tick, it got the reduction, but if it was rooted/feared during the other 9 ticks, they were full damage?

Brackir
08-19-2002, 12:56 AM
If those figures are right, as they seem to be, our WD is taking 1716!! hp from the target when we use EA III items (Coldain Military Wristguard...)

Check the damage/mana ratio on that: 4.9

And, to the lucky ones that have an Affliction Efficency III item... well, that is A-WE-SOME. (Dam. Ratio: 7.0)

Just to compare a bit, the damage ratio on Funeral Pyre of Kelador is... 4.8

BTW, EA III *still* works with roots and snares, making our ensnare a 12 minute spell

Nice thread :)

Lauranne Darkforest, Hierophant of Tunare
<ODISEA> Solusek Ro

Tudamorf
08-19-2002, 01:20 AM
BriennaMonk says: I thought the damage reduction was on a per-tick basis.

I think I didn't explain it clearly.

The way it was supposed to work after that September 1999 DoT nerf patch is as follows:

a) Every time a DoT spell does damage (once every 6 second "tick"), the Everquest server checks to see if your target is moving. If it's moving at that moment, it reduces the damage to 66% of the normal damage. If it's not moving at that moment, it keeps the damage at 100%.

b) All DoT spells will last for 1 extra tick, regardless of whether your target is moving.

Why (b)? The purpose of all this was to nerf kiting. But many people complained that their targets move around a bit even when they aren't kiting, such as during pulling and ping-ponging. With the nerf, these people would also get less damage. Verant's compromise was to extend the duration of the spell by 1 tick, so your target can be moving for up to 3 of the ticks and you will still be doing the damage you used to -- i.e., the extra duration would make up for the lost damage during the ticks when the target was moving. This also meant that if the target never moved, you would be doing more damage than you used to do.

Now in reality, I can't remember if they actually went ahead and extended DoT duration as they proposed doing. I think they may have just found that to be a poor solution, so instead they applied a server-side damage bonus of around 12% if the target is standing still, and a server-side damage penalty if the target is moving. This is still how it works, as far as I can tell, although they supposedly removed the penalty side of the equation with the recent patch.

Xitix
08-19-2002, 02:39 AM
Using google to search for the patch message in question and clicking on 'Cached'

September 13th, 3:00 am
------------------------------

** Patch Day **

** Bug Fixes **
Players levitating should be easier for other PCs to see.
When charmed/feared and killed players should not be returned to the character selection screen.
Lore items in containers that are dropped should not be destroyed.
Charged items, such as the Staff of the Observers, should correctly report the number of charges remaining after zoning.
Corpses should remain lootable even if a player goes linkdead while looting
A player under the effect of charm or fear can no longer open their spellbook or sit in order to escape the effects of these spells.
A player using online help should no longer be locked into the help screen if another party initiates a trade.
Non-melee items equipped in weapon slots should no longer mutate if the pc is charmed.
Extremely large NPCs, ie Vox, should not suicide when stuck.

** New emotes **
Here is a list of new emotes that have been added to the game: agree, amaze, apologize, applaud, plead, bite, bleed, blink, blush, boggle, bonk, bored, brb, burp, bye, cackle, calm, clap, comfort, congratulate, cough, cringe, curious, dance, drool , duck, eye, gasp, giggle, glare, grin , groan, grovel, happy, hungry, introduce, jk (just kidding) , kneel, lost, massage, moan, mourn , peer, point, ponder, puzzle, raise, ready, roar, salute, shiver, shrug, sigh, smirk, snarl, snicker, stare, tap, tease, thank, thirsty, veto, welcome, whine, whistle, yawn

** PVP Changes **
In order to make PVP combat between spellcasters and melee types more viable some changes to PVP spell effects have been made. All damage spells cast in PVP combat will do less damage to the PC than the same spell would do to an NPC. When a PC is under the effect of a root-type spell there is a 20% chance that they will break free when a direct damage spell is cast upon them.

** Spell Changes **
Levitate: All players may now cancel this effect.
Paralyzing Earth now Wizard and Necromancer useable.
The Mana cost on some Magician damage shields has been slightly reduced
Alter Plane: Hate and Alter Plane: Sky have been changed into higher level spells.
Succor: Ro (Druid) is now a level 39 spell (previously a typo as a level 49 spell)
Curse of the Simple Mind (Enchanter) now lowers both Int AND Wis.
Selo`s Consonant Chain (Bard) should now work better.
Shadow Vortex (Necro) is more effective.
Screaming Terror is now an all or nothing save. This should stop the 'train' problems that it was causing.
Gravity Flux will now research correctly for Wizards.
Lich and Bond of Death are now researchable for Necromancers check your tomes.
The different types of Words of Collection and Words of Acquisition are now more easily identifiable.
Dead Man Walking (Necromancer) has been renamed Dead Man Floating
Ignite Bones (Necromancer) has had the movement component removed. This means that it will no longer break root and snare spells, and that it will now stack with the darkness line.
Syvelian`s Anti-Magic Aria (Bard) has been fixed.
A bug in some of the AoE code has been fixed. AoE spells will now effect more monsters.
Some Magician Summoned items are now lore items. Items that have turned lore have had other small benefits added to them.
Dance of the Fireflies (Druid) has been changed from Divination to Conjuration.
Rangers have gained the spell Dance of the Fireflies (level 15)
High Level Enchanter Illusion spells have had the remainder of their effects implemented.
Magi research components have been added to more monsters throughout the world.
There is a new pet command: /pet taunt and /pet notaunt. Pets default to /pet taunt
The Rods for the Ice Comet quests will now pop much more often.
Envenomed Breath (Shaman) has had its damage raised slightly.
Scourge (Necromancer and Shaman) has had its damage raised slightly.
Enchantment of Light and Enchantment of Brilliance (Enchanter) have been replaced by new enchantment spells. These spells have been added to a hidden vendor somewhere in the game.
New quests for Necromancers to research their pets have been added

** Pets **
High level pets (44th and 49th lvl spells) do less damage
Pets will now navigate some outdoor and dungeon areas better

** DoT Changes **
If the monster is in melee with you, there is no change to how a DoT spell works.
If the monster is running away from you (fear, wounded, etc.), there is no change to how a DoT spell works.
If the monster is moving when the damage from the DoT is applied (happens every few seconds), it will take 66% of the damage that it would have taken.
DoT spells have all had their duration slightly increased. If the monster moves for 18 seconds during a fight, it will take as much damage from the DoT as it would before the patch. If the monster moves for less then 18 seconds during a fight, your DoT will do more damage then it would have done before the patch. If the monster moves more then 18 seconds during the fight, it will take less damage then it would have before the patch.
- The EverQuest Team

buzweaver
08-19-2002, 02:48 AM
At best we can guessestimate about what DOT effects are. I think on VI knows the exact figures and I’m sure they’ve had their Tweak Monkeys giving us crumb says Damage, IMO just to say they did something.

Scirocco
08-19-2002, 02:53 AM
They didn't extend the duration of the DoT on a rooted mob after the DoT nerf. In any case, the DoT nerf is a bit moot, since it no longer is in place.

I tried to account for regen by killing each HG in two minutes (essentially using the same sequence of spells). Thus, each of the equations above should have a -R on the right hand side. Assuming that R is the same for all HGs regardless of what spells it is being hit with, the R cancels out.

In effect, 2570 is not the HP that ShowEQ would give us on a fresh HG. It's the starting HP plus 2 mins. of regen. A starting hit of 1265 from Moonfire, by the way, lowered the first HG's HPs to 49% from 100%, so starting HP should be somewhere around 2480-2500 HP.

I was planning on doing this on many HGs in order to take into account differences in levels (and HPs), as I noted in the thread where I first described this. I ran the first two series of numbers in a spreadsheet, though, and came up with 2569 and 2572, and as it was 2:30 am, I figured I ought to go ahead and get an idea of what the numbers were. As it turned out, the additional damage beyond WD was 1140 and 1143.

Assuming the four HGs were the same level, then the damage done by WD was 1430.

Since that time, I haven't had a chance to do more HGs, or do a single mob of constant level (like Khrix's Abomination). I reported the initial numbers here to give people the heads-up, though. Feel free to do your own testing...:)

Xitix
08-19-2002, 03:17 AM
Just realized where the 18 seconds is coming from. If the mob is moving for 3 ticks you do 66% + 66% + 66%, with an added tick 100%/3 = 33% + 33% + 33% it's a wash. There is no conditional extra tick. There is allways one extra tick from what it used to be WAY WAY WAY back in the old days to counter up 3 ticks of reduced damage due to movement.

Aidon Rufflefuzz
08-19-2002, 03:32 AM
To test DoT damage Watchman Halv in Steamfont is best. He has according to show EQ exactly 1637 hit points every single time he spawns.. (I also confirmed that it was definately in this range by root, nuking him).

Dont' have to do all that extra silly math... used halv to prove that splurt wasn't doing 1300 dmg like someone was trying to say.

We do not use ShowEQ. We do not speak of ShowEQ. ShowEQ is exploitative and very much agains the EULA.

The Administration and Moderators of The Druids Grove do not condone the use of ShowEQ.

ShowEQ is the debil. And Verant is the Angel of Ban.

Tsalarian the Wanderer
08-19-2002, 03:41 AM
My original post was in another thread, but I thought I'd copy it here for your convenience. This was posted after seeing Scirocco's first numbers for DoT dmg (12% serverside bonus thingy).
If you want to see the original thread, it's here: pub13.ezboard.com/fthedru...8210.topic (http://pub13.ezboard.com/fthedruidsgrovegeneral.showMessage?topicID=28210.t opic)
It's a bit down, and I know it's a bit missplaced (should have been a thread of it's own maybe).

_______________________________


Ok, after seeing these numbers, I thought I'd do a couple of tests myself. The mobs I used for these tests were Umbrous Toilers in ME. I only tested WD and these are the tests I did and the results:

Winged Death as listed: 1287dmg in 9ticks, which is 143dmg/tick.

Test1:
First I had to figure out fairly excactly how many hps the mobs I tested had. I did this by only doing direct damage to it... yet realising that if I were to compare this with dots, I'd have to let it live for some time. So after the first DD landed till the mob died, about 6min passed.
I reached the approcimate number of 7600hp.

Test2:
This test I cast WD on the mob and let it run it's full dmg. Then recast afterwards till it died. This came to a full 5 WD and 3 ticks into another. This *should* be 48 ticks of WD.
This would indicate that WD did about 158dmg/tick to a total of about 1425dmg.

Test3:
This test I cast WD on the mob and kept recasting, not letting it wear off ever. This came to a total of 53 ticks from the first dot till the mob died.
This would indicate that WD did about 143dmg/tick. No total dmg per WD can be calculated in this test, as I can tell nothing of the duration from this particular test.


Conclusion:
Test2 concludes that WD does 158dmg per tick, yet Test3 shows that WD does 143dmg/tick... so which is right?
Well, in Test2 we assume that the duration of WD is 9 ticks, and thereby come to the number of 158dmg/tick... in Test3, we assume nothing, but only work from raw data. So my conclusion would be that the dmg/tick is 143, as Test3 shows.
Something worth noticing though, is that the difference between the amount of ticks we got from letting WD run out 5 times, and then another 3 ticks... and letting WD run all the time is 5, which is excactly the amount of full dmg WD. This clearly indicates that WD runs 10 ticks and not 9... an extra tick. I havn't tested this for other dots, so I can't say if this is only for WD or generally for all dots. But my guess would be that all dots gets this extra tick.


On PvP:
I did a couple of test as myself as subject. WD did 109dmg/tick (when regen is taken into account). Refrering to my previous tests, I would think that there's another factor included in the calculation when converting dmg to PvP for DoTs than for DDs. Doing a direct calculation this factor should be around 0.762. This isn't an excact number as roundings havn't been taken into account, but the excact number should be relativly near this.


EDIT:
Some things I forgot to include but I posted later in the thread:

The Umbrous Toilers in ME have VERY identical hp... not excactly the same, but they vary with no more than 50hp or so. They are all the same level as well.

Actual effect
Winged Death - 1430dmg in 10 ticks (1min), (143dmg/tick)

Scirocco
08-19-2002, 06:15 AM
Thanks for the confirmation about the damage/tick, Tudamorf. It leads to a rather elegant resolution of the DoT issue. The damage per tick is as listed in the spell data files. The various sites that "list" the damage for the druid DoTs got the damage per tick right, but used the wrong duration for calculating the total damage and thus come up short. [See post below, which indicates that the tick being left out is the "flashing" tick when the spell wears off.]

The damage per tick is now also an integer for all DoTs, which makes it clean (1287 divided by 10 ticks was causing me heartburn before...:)

Last time I tested WoN, it was an even 30 ticks, by the way. So take the per tick damage from the spell data file and multiply by 30.

The PvP resolution is done by simply assuming a lower PvP reduction. Remember that the PvP reduction increases with the level of the spell (yes, you have a lower effective PvP % with Wildfire than with our earlier DDs). I used 62.5% based on my highest level DD tests. It just now appears that that number is not the right percentage to use for our DoTs. Assuming that the WD PvP damage per tick is 106-109 or so (i.e., taking regen into account), that's a 74% to 76% reduction.

For anyone doing this testing, you have to take into account mob regeneration because a single application of a DoT will take at least a minute to run its course. You can either try figuring out the regen of the mob in question, or just cancel it out by figuring out how much damage (i.e., effective HP, or starting HP + R) it takes to kill the mob in question in time t, and then causing the mob to always be killed at or very close to time t for future tests.

Alianna Sedai
08-19-2002, 07:03 AM
EQCaster is WRONG regarding buff/dot durations.

There are *TWO* values for Duration:

'x' Solid Ticks
'y' Flashing Ticks

In the example of Winged Death, there are 9 Solid Ticks plus 1 Flashing Tick. This totals TEN TICKS.

Take a look at bard songs and you will quickly understand what I mean, most of those are 0 solid and a few flashing ticks.

There are some exceptions where 0+y is "overloaded", ie 0+7 is some sort of skill- or level-based formula that equates to around 10 minutes.

-Alianna

Scirocco
08-19-2002, 07:07 AM
OK, that answers that. They left out the "flashing" tick at the end.

Tudamorf
08-19-2002, 07:38 AM
Scirocco says: Thus, each of the equations above should have a -R on the right hand side. Assuming that R is the same for all HGs regardless of what spells it is being hit with, the R cancels out.

R doesn't cancel out. To remove it from the equation you'd have to calculate it, say by damaging an HG, keeping it in combat mode, and watching its regeneration with the target bar. This would all be pretty fuzzy science though.

I have another idea that I will test when I get a chance -- one that minimizes the effect of regeneration. I will look through the ShowEQ lists for an NPC that has 246 < HP < 340. If you are correct, and the damage per tick is 143, then that NPC should die in 2 ticks. If you are not correct, and the PvP damage figure is 62.9% (leading to a calculated value of 170/tick), then that NPC should die in 3 ticks.

Aaeamdar
08-19-2002, 08:16 AM
R does cancel out if you get the timing right. For example, there is no differnce between a mob with 100 HP and 0 regen/tick and a mob with 50 hp and 5 regen/tick if you kill both mobs 1 minute after the first application of damage. In either case, you ate through 100 HP.

Scirocco
08-19-2002, 08:47 AM
[/b]R doesn't cancel out. To remove it from the equation you'd have to calculate it, say by damaging an HG, keeping it in combat mode, and watching its regeneration with the target bar. This would all be pretty fuzzy science though.[/b]


But it does. R is the amount of HP regenerated by a HG in two minutes, in my case. R is the same number (say, for the purposes of argument, 50). Thus, it cancels out because the HG in all four cases were killed at about 120 seconds (or as close to it as possible).

Thus, 2570 is not the starting HP of a HG, it's the "total amount of damage needed to kill a HG two minutes after the first damage is done." This, of course, is equal to starting HP + R (2 min).

Accordingly, what I did is determine (albeit with a limited number of samples) 2570 as the "Damage to Kill @ 2 min" number (DTK@2).

I then used a single cast of WD along with the other spells to kill the next two giants in two minutes. To kill these HGs, it took WD + 1140 in DD damage.

So:

SHP + R (2 min) = 2570 = WD + 1140

Solving for WD = 1430 is child's play. WD has to have done 1430 damage for the HG to die at 2 min with the total DD damage equalling 1140, assuming that the DTK@2 is the same. SHP and R need not be determined.

And yes, you can find a mob with, say, 150 hp. The first tick of damage should take it down to about 6% to 8% HP, using the new UI. Perhaps slightly more due to regen. Just another way to test the damage/tick.

Due to regen, there's always going to be some imprecision. I used 2 minutes because it takes that long to cast a few spells doing 5 to 6 points of damage per cast to finish the mob off at the end, and gives me plenty of room to work with a single minute-long DoT. As you can see, my DTK@2 is off a few points, which undoubtedly is due to regen timing and the imprecision in using a 5 or 6 hp spell to do a point or two of damage.

By the way, I was surprised at the WD numbers when they came out so clean at 143 damage per tick. Not what I was expecting, really.







I have another idea that I will test when I get a chance -- one that minimizes the effect of regeneration. I will look through the ShowEQ lists for an NPC that has 246 < HP < 340. If you are correct, and the damage per tick is 143, then that NPC should die in 2 ticks. If you are not correct, and the PvP damage figure is 62.9% (leading to a calculated value of 170/tick), then that NPC should die in 3 ticks.

Grondorak
08-19-2002, 10:43 AM
Has anyone done any tests on the Extended Affliction focus effect items? Do they really add 20% to the Duration of DoTs? Does it result in 20% more damage or is there some rounding or truncating going on?

I did notice EA items work on Roots and Snare but not charm and fear. Did anyone ever test them on Slows and Mezzes?

Tudamorf
08-19-2002, 11:21 AM
Grondorak says: Has anyone done any tests on the Extended Affliction focus effect items? Do they really add 20% to the Duration of DoTs?

It's not 20%. Winged Death is 11 ticks (normal is 10), Choke is 6 ticks (normal is 5), Suffocate is 20 ticks (normal is 18). My best estimate is therefore 10%, if rounded up, or 15%, if rounded down.

Did anyone ever test them on Slows and Mezzes?

They work on both, as well as the tashan line.

Scirocco says: Thus, it cancels out because the HG in all four cases were killed at about 120 seconds (or as close to it as possible).

Ah that's the part that wasn't clear to me. When you nuked them, you also waited 2 minutes for them to die? Otherwise, R wouldn't cancel out.

Scirocco
08-19-2002, 11:50 AM
EA only adds one tick to the druid DoTs. 10% is as good an estimate as any.

Ah that's the part that wasn't clear to me. When you nuked them, you also waited 2 minutes for them to die? Otherwise, R wouldn't cancel out.

Exactly. Lead with Moonfire, then root, snare, several applications of root, a couple of ignites, then several Bursts (the 5-6 damage kind).

Tatankawd
08-19-2002, 12:34 PM
"EA only adds one tick to the druid DoTs. 10% is as good an estimate as any"

OK, have you tested it with BoR?

Cause here's my theory:

When the focus items came out, it was stated that they added 20%, but only 1 extra tick for WD (10 ticks + 20% should be 2 ticks).

Now that we know about the regular ticks and "flashing" ticks (WD is 9 + 1), maybe the EA items are based on the "regular" ticks. Now, BoR is 11 ticks (10 + 1), so it >may< get 2 extra ticks.

If so, then even accounting for fizzles and resists (and needing RFS to land well), BoR may be about the same efficiency as WD if you have an EA3 item, and spec in Evocation.

I don't have an EA item, so I can't test this.

Tat

Tudamorf
08-19-2002, 01:30 PM
Tatankawd says: OK, have you tested it with BoR?

I did better than that. I tested it with Suffocate, an 18 tick duration DoT that was extended to 20 ticks. If the extension were 20%, we'd expect to see 3 or 4 additional ticks, not 2.

Now that we know about the regular ticks and "flashing" ticks

The whole "flashing ticks" idea seems pretty suspect to me, unless someone can provide some evidence.

Kalinn
08-19-2002, 02:31 PM
well i had a theory on the duration inconsistency that i wanted to test, but came out more confused than i went into it heh. i think i have at least proven that the "flashing" theory to explain it is incorrect.

i tested stinging swarm today with a lvl 21 druid. over several castings, i came out with pretty consistant data. it is listed as a 54 second duration, and tests out as a 10 tick spell. i didnt have time to test higher level spells today.

"flashing" started at 22 seconds into the spell.
the icon dropped and i got the message the swarm departed after 36 seconds.
i continued to take damage for the next 24 seconds.
i got the message that my spell worn off my target after 60 seconds, and damage ceased.


the flashing doesnt seem to indicate anything in regards to duration, as it starts at 22 seconds and lasts for 14. if it was just a matter of ticks during the flashing not being counted in listed duration, then we would see durations being 2 ticks or more short, rather than 1 consistantly.

the most interesting part of this is that the target loses the icon and gets the message that the spell has ended at only 36 seconds, yet the target continues to take damage for the full 60 seconds.

Scirocco
08-19-2002, 04:04 PM
That sounds like lag of some sort. Whenever I cast it on myself, it started flashing and dropped, I took damage at the end of that tick and that was it.

I went back and looked at a table that some ShowEQ folks put together of mob HP data (pretty much all old world stuff from about two years ago). Hill Giants were listed as from 2472 to 2552 HP.

Aaeamdar
08-19-2002, 06:08 PM
EA is like any of the focus effects (excpet extended enhancement), the 20% is a random 1 to 20%, but it still goes to the nearest tick. 10 ticks for a DoT under those conditions should give you:

10 ticks - 20% of the time
11 ticks - 50% of the time
12 ticks - 30% of the time

I do not have an EA item. Has someone tested this extensively and found that the effect is always 1 extra tick?

Miss Foxfyre
08-19-2002, 06:55 PM
You know, I haven't had a chance to do this, but someone in the UI forum linked to a site (http://www.horizonsoutpost.com/eq/timer.asp) where you can get timers (tick timers), so I might download a timer for my UI and check out the Coldain Military Wristguard's effect on DoTs.

Tudamorf
08-19-2002, 07:05 PM
Aaeamdar says: I do not have an EA item. Has someone tested this extensively and found that the effect is always 1 extra tick?

I've tested it probably ten times now. It has always been the same.

Foxfyre says: but someone in the UI forum linked to a site where you can get timers (tick timers),

You don't need any fancy gadgets, just open your inventory window and watch your health numbers.

More importantly, where can I find a non-resized version of that cabbage spell icon? <img src=http://lag9.com/biggrin.gif>

Miss Foxfyre
08-19-2002, 08:52 PM
You don't need any fancy gadgets, just open your inventory window and watch your health numbers.
Blah! That's no fun! I rather like gadgets...egg timers, stopwatches, space pens, and UI timer gizmos.


More importantly, where can I find a non-resized version of that cabbage spell icon?
You can't unless you can take a screenshot of your buff icon and it turns out a perfect 60x60. Or you could make one from scratch -- there's a lot of cabbage graphics online!

Kalinn
08-20-2002, 08:09 AM
the flashing timing was not a result of lag. i started the timer from the time the spell took hold, not when i cast which is actually a second earlier due to game delay conditions. i also run a very fast machine and have virtually no lag in most zones, and i conducted this test in SK with no mobs or people around, so no lag.

i also repeated the test 5 times. flashing always started after 22 seconds, the icon always dropped after 36, and the dot always stayed through 60.