View Full Forums : Raid Experience
06-16-2003, 05:56 AM
Can someone explain the reason behind the Raid Experience penalty? You'd think that with all the recent changes meant to encourage grouping, SoE would stop penalizing you for wanting to group with, god forbid, more than 5 others for experience.
06-16-2003, 06:23 AM
Is there a raid exp penalty?
06-16-2003, 06:26 AM
There is no additional penalty to exp in raid mode; there was a penalty when the raiding features were first implemented, but they removed it a few months later.
However, raid mode still negates all grouping bonuses.
- Mob_A is worth 100 'units' of Exp.
- Zone Experience Modifier (ZEM) is 10%
<strong>Group of <span style="text-decoration:underline">6</span> kills Mob_A</strong>
Mob_A is worth 100 * 1.10 [ZEM 10%] * 1.80 [group bonus 80%] = 198 units
Each person earns 198/5 = <strong>39.60</strong> units
[group gets 6th person free, so exp is divided by 5]
<strong>Raid of <span style="text-decoration:underline">6</span> kills Mob_A</strong>
Mob_A is worth 100 * 1.10 [ZEM 10%] = 110 units
Each person earns 110/6 = <strong>18.33</strong> units
Losing the group bonus has always made /raid mode far less rewarding; with recent changes increasing the grouping bonuses, the loss is more noticeable -- especially in PoP zones where mobs are now worth less Exp.
I might have applied the sample percentages incorrectly, but the explanation is basically correct. ;)
06-16-2003, 06:37 AM
Nicely done Fire!
06-16-2003, 07:20 AM
They need to add the group bonus to /raid. It is that simple and it would be so rewarding for the casual gamer. This is one of my greatest development wishes.
06-16-2003, 08:10 AM
They intentionaly don't want two groups forming up as a raid to get experience. Content for xp is designed with a group of six in mind and bringing a group of 12 in a raid defeats that design. While it would be nice to see an increase in raid xp, I seriously doubt they would ever change it.
06-16-2003, 10:43 AM
I found this interesting. Saturday night, my guild went to gank Tawro in UP. We had our normal 3 groups (no, we don't need 3 groups to kill Tawro, just that many people who felt like going :) ).
We've made this run before and normally, the exp I get is negligible. Saturday night, I made 3 blues of aa with exp set to 80aa/20 normal.
Anyone else experience anything like this, or did I just hit a lucky fluke? :p
06-16-2003, 11:43 AM
Lol, the group experience bonus is to encourage grouping. They don't need to do anything to encourage raiding. Raiding is doing just fine without an experience bonus.
06-16-2003, 11:52 AM
"Raiding is doing just fine without an experience bonus."
True, but it would be nice to not have a neg hit, because you want a 7th or 8th friend join ya.
While it is true that a lot of the game is gear to 6 player groups, having the option to have more(with no increase of the pos modifiers) would be nice. Not from a need, just for fun. I would find it unusual if most have not had a friend want to join your group when it was full, or someone left the group to make room(and went solo intentionally).
06-16-2003, 12:13 PM
If Raid experience had a mod on it, what would be the point of grouping? Raid mobs are normally white, yellow or red. Thus making them more xp all ready then a group mob. If you added a raid experience mod, guilds who raid alot would have 500AA's in a year just by raiding.
The raid window wasn't built with adding a 7 or 8 person in mind. It was built to make communicating on a raid easier. Which it did. No more note pad and pen to make a group. That was it's purpose.
It also stopped the KS group on a raid. You remember those. Those 4 rogs, cleric and bard groups that KS'ed the whole raid and got all the xp. Just think about what kinda of XP those KS groups would get with PoP Experience mods and the new grouping bonus. Oh the fights that would cause.
06-16-2003, 12:35 PM
Folks you all are not looking at this from the casual GUILD perspective.
#1 there are not enough big mobs around any single camp to satisfy the typical /LFG person, thus it would be very difficult to "abuse" having the group bonus associated with the /raid feature.
#2 Not every person wants to go /LFG. In my guild we would rather fight with each other or not at all. We do not have an overabundance of slowers, so we typically can only make 2 PoP groups for 20+ people online because of the need for the "Holy Trinity".....that means people get left out. I HATE leaving people out. We used to go /raid for EXP groups pre-patch, but the EXP hit was so bad it made doing so almost pointless.
What I noticed in Hate the other night after the patch was that /raid EXP was much better than before. I was getting better EXP off the low 50's mobs in Hate post patch in /raid mode, than I was getting in /raid mode at the Hobbies in PoN pre-patch.
So to me /raid EXP getting better is a VERY good thing for the casual guild that would rather get EXP together than powergame for EXP. Frankly I wish it was better than this. I do not think there should be any difference between group EXP and /raid EXP. And don't tell me that is the way the game was designed. If so it's a stupid design to make 3 slots fillable by only 1-2 classes, and we all know it. The way to fix the flawed design is to go through the complicated programming of expanding groups to 8 or 10 OR even better, the easy way is to make /raid EXP equal to regular group EXP.
06-16-2003, 12:42 PM
Rahjeir, I agree completely that actual 'raids' should not be entitled to grouping bonuses. All the tiny bits of Exp gleaned from clearing yard trash and lower mobs to reach bosses, is really just icing on the cake. Applying group bonuses to large raiding parties would inappropriately reward the overpowering of mobs which were designed to challenge a single group.
However, the raid feature has shown enormous potential as a method of including friends and guildmates when there's one or two people more than a 6-person group allows. Before the recent changes, PoP mobs were worth enough Exp that splitting it 7 or 8 ways wasn't too bad.
Now that PoP exp has been decreased to offset the new bonuses for groups, creating a raid to include that extra few people incurs a HUGE reduction in Exp earned by each person.
I would really like to see Groups expanded to 8 or 9. Not only would this allow for inclusion of friends, but it would also increase the likelihood of groups including some generalist classes after getting the first three healer/slower/tank and 'enough' DPS.
Perhaps the new UI would make an expanded group more feasible than it was under the rigidity of the old UI. Realizing that many encounters are designed for 6-person groups, a sliding scale could be used when adding a 7th, 8th, or 9th person.
For instance --
Group of 2: 20%, each person earns 1/2
Group of 3: 40%, each earns 1/3
Group of 4: 60%, each earns 1/4
Group of 5-6: 80%, each earns 1/5
Group of 7-8: 60%, each earns 1/7 (or 1/8)
Group of 9: 40%, each earns 1/9
I don't think this would be unreasonable.
[edited to remove the emoticon for "/8)" above ]
06-16-2003, 02:33 PM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Raid mobs are normally white, yellow or red. Thus making them more xp all ready then a group mob.[/quote]
I frequently XP on mobs that are very close to my level at 63. I'd rather get the better xp for those mobs than wade through countless hordes of little mobs.
06-16-2003, 03:27 PM
We shouldn't loose 1/2 the possible exp per mob because we want a 7th person to group with us. Yes I could solo, I could break off and go somewhere else with a couple others, where is the incentive to socialize. Right now I feel bad about going to join my friends, when there is a group of 6, they are more than happy to have me but why should it hose their exp gain like that?
06-16-2003, 06:30 PM
Yes you should lose the 1/2 the exp because as was stated earlier..the mobs were designed for groups of 6. Bringing a 7th lessens the challege of the mob. Raids should be formed for raids not for extra large groups. You want to socialize..make a chat channel.
06-16-2003, 06:49 PM
i hardly think forming a chat channel is the same as fighting with your friends
06-16-2003, 08:00 PM
I do think raid experience deserves some tweaking. While I don't think adding players 7 through 9 should enable the raid to gain more xp than a normal xp group, I don't see why a reasonable bonus so they can net just below what a group of six makes is so terrible. Saying this won't work because xp is designed around 6 is silly. The drawbacks to the extra players include the need to find more mobs to kill (just to keep the same kills / person) and group spells not working on everyone. It should not be better xp than a single, efficient group... but there's no reason to make it so much worse.
I'd also like to see more xp coming from full blown raids. Again it's a balance issue. No, xp from a 40 person raid shouldn't come close to a skilled single group. However, that doesn't mean getting 2% AA after 6 hours of killing dark blue and higher mobs is appropriate either. Even a quarter of what an xp group makes would be nice... something to add to the sense of progress on top of those nice yellow messages.
06-16-2003, 08:31 PM
"Bringing a 7th lessens the challege of the mob"
This logic is flawed from the standpoint of this whole discussion, and from the apparent intent of the game developers.
If 2 people group provide a 20% exp bonus
It is clear that what is and what is not a challenge for a particular mob is NOT the intent of the developers, with regard to experience rewards at least. That would require one to make the posit that adding up to 5 people to your group is actually increasing the challenge of the mob.
It is easy to say that no additional modifiers, positive or negative, should apply to macro groups. But there is no connection with the motivation on the part of the developers to get you to group and the given challenge of any particular exp mob.
If challenge of a mob were a basis for the exp reward system, then surely a solo player should get the positive exp modifiers, not the full group. And it stands to reason, even given the term 'experience' that doing something, any task for instance, will net you better experience doing it by yourself, than with 5 other people assisting you.
If you were asked to mow a lawn for example, would you not get better at it doing it yourself, than with 5 other people mowing it with you?
06-16-2003, 08:51 PM
--It is clear that what is and what is not a challenge for a particular mob is NOT the intent of the developers, with regard to experience rewards at least. That would require one to make the posit that adding up to 5 people to your group is actually increasing the challenge of the mob.--
Actually I think it's more clear that, anything over an 80% bonus would just be ridiculous. 80% is really high, I'll take it, but it's high. I picture percents like a pie often. Someone walks up and gives you a pie. A few minutes later, someone walks up and gives you more than 3/4 of another pie...that's a whole lotta pie. I know it seems silly, but if you picture it in your head, it's easier to see how large an intangible/semitangible is.
Wouldn't raid xp would like:
Your raid kills the monster>xp floats through the raid filter>xp floats through the indivual group filters.
So, the xp goes through the raid xp filter;
monster had 24 xp points, there are 4 groups of 6 on raid; each group gets 6 xp points, then it gets the group modifier. So instead of your single group getting 24 xp points, then being boosted 80%, you get 6 xp points that are boosted by 80%.
I'm asking here, not saying. It sounds very logical in my head, but it may be way off.
06-16-2003, 09:12 PM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>If you were asked to mow a lawn for example, would you not get better at it doing it yourself, than with 5 other people mowing it with you?[/quote]
Not if the lawn was too much for you to handle by yourself:P
But seriously, I do understand what you're saying. XP wise, sure technically you should get more xp, but I believe the intent of raid xp was not created for groups of 7 or 8 etc.
06-16-2003, 09:27 PM
Right or wrong(I actually don't know which) there is a perception from players in game that if you add a 7th player via /raid that there is a negative hit to the experience reward for the group.
I have heard that the whole group bonus is removed, I have heard that there is a 34% hit, I have had people leave groups to allow others join, I have seen players turned away from groups because of this perception.
I don't think that advocating additional positive modifiers is even a concern at this point for raids. It is that perceived notion that a 7 group is not getting their fair share. I know I don't group because of increased experience. I group to have fun, or kill mobs that are out of reach solo. Mostly because of fun, honestly.
I think that should be fostered by the developers and SOE. Motivation to group with exp rewards is fine, but don't punish those who wish to group 7 or 8 or 9, for fun.
I wish we(I) had some real numbers to work with on this subject; because conventional wisdom amoung players is that there is a hit, when you add beyond the 6.
06-16-2003, 09:39 PM
Personally, I disagree completely with what has been stated above vis-a-vis raiding. I hate xp grinding. SOE has consistantly failed to make challanging yourself in a group a rewarding xp experience, because they give xp based solely on teh level of teh creature, not its actual difficulty. Because of that, the only thing I actually enjoy doing in the game - raiding - I would like to see give huge xp just like I was in a 6 man group grinding away no-risk mobs.
Ideally, they would change the way XP is given out, so that a raid force would get a huge xp bump when it killed a boss mob and so that an XP group fighting summoning, non-snarable, non-slowable mobs with 100k hp and some AEs would get a lot more XP per kill than the same level mob that is rootable, does not summon and only has 25k hp - but they seem incapable of actually making this work (or more acurately, unwilling to ut the work in to make this actually work). Until they are, I think a nice compromise would be to give full group XP bonuses to raids, so people doing difficult things would advance more quickly than those grinding it away at some boring completely safe camp in PoP.
06-16-2003, 09:59 PM
Well you do have a point there.
If Naggy gives the same(or less) experience that a treant or raven does in PoN,,,,well you do have a point.
06-17-2003, 03:47 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>monster had 24 xp points, there are 4 groups of 6 on raid; each group gets 6 xp points, then it gets the group modifier. So instead of your single group getting 24 xp points, then being boosted 80%, you get 6 xp points that are boosted by 80%.[/quote]
Sounds logical to me! The game will give 43.2 total xp points in both situations, and everyone gets a share. Sounds fair to me. Actually, you could still be getting less overall xp if any of the groups did not have the full 6. However, a better distribution would probably be: 24 xp pts / 24 people = 1 xp per member, which would be 6 xp per group, then bonuses.
Let's take the "few extra friends" example:
Mob has 24 xp points.
1. Group of 6 -- 24 x 1.8 = 43.2 / 5 = 8.64 points per member.
2. Raid of 6 (2 groups of 3, just for comparison) -- 24 / 6 = 4 points per member (~54% less!)
3. Raid of 9 (1 group of 6, 1 of 3) -- 24 / 9 = 2.67 points per member
4. Raid of 9 (1 group of 6, 1 of 3, with modification "A") -- 24 / 2 = 12 pts to each group. Group 1 -- 12 x 1.8 = 21.6 / 5 = 4.32 points per member. Group 2 -- 12 x 1.4 = 16.8 / 3 = 5.6 points per member.
5. Raid of 9 (1 group of 6, 1 of 3, with modification "B") -- 24 / 9 = 2.67 pts to each member. Group 1 -- 6 x 2.67 x 1.8 = 28.836 / 6 (not 5) = 4.806 points per member. Group 2 -- 3 x 2.67 x 1.4 = 11.214 / 3 = 3.738 points per member.
Total experience given by game for standard group = 43.2.
Total experience given by game for current raid of 9 = 24.
Total experience given by game for current raid of 9 under plan "A" = 38.4
Total experience given by game for current raid of 9 under plan "B" = 40.05
However it gets done, all I really want is to be able to have a couple extra friends join us for 'normal' experience, where we can all get some xp without losing half of it because we have to give up all the group bonuses.
06-17-2003, 03:56 AM
I think a nice compromise would be to give full group XP bonuses to raids, so people doing difficult things would advance more quickly than those grinding it away at some boring completely safe camp in PoP.
Raiding is a playstyle choice. It is already favored equipment-wise, to also make it better experience would completely skew the game away from players who choose a different playstyle.
06-17-2003, 05:01 AM
I'm not suggesting that the more people you add the higher the modifier, but over 50% less because you added 1 person? I can see 10 - 20% less.
06-17-2003, 11:19 AM
Talking about what percentage bonus raids should get is fruitless. The real question is how xp on a raid should compare to a traditional xp group.
In my mind, the xp on a large raid should be significantly more than it is right now... but also much less than a traditional xp group makes. On a small raid (7-10) the xp should begin to approach that of a six man group.
Right now, from what I've seen small raids (aka large xp groups) and full raids fall drastically short of what they should give as an xp reward.
06-17-2003, 12:55 PM
I think everyone is missing the point of raid xp.
The whole point of raid xp, is that people had been complaining for so long, that when in a raid, there was always one group that got all the xp. It would always be, pull team, team with most casters, or team that almost all melee. People complained about this for so long, that they just started dividing it between everyone in the raid.
I have been to CoM, using a fast casting spell with low damage, and KS'ing all the xp from the entire raid. I wasn't even in a group, but I was getting all the xp.
Besides that, if you want xp, then go xp hunt...raids are raids, they are toward different goals. Raids are for parts of quests, better equipment, and now for some spell drops.
--True, but it would be nice to not have a neg hit, because you want a 7th or 8th friend join ya.--
You are not taking a hit. The xp is being divided between two groups. It's not the same thing as a penalty. A penalty would be something that was made to purposely give you less xp, and that doesn't appear to be the case.
--#1 there are not enough big mobs around any single camp to satisfy the typical /LFG person, thus it would be very difficult to "abuse" having the group bonus associated with the /raid feature.--
Actually it would be extremely easy. Take your level 46 character to PoN, or PoD in a raid group. Now you are getting an xp bonus from monsters that you should probably not even be fighting, because you are in a raid group of level 55-65. You would be getting PL'd by an entire raid.
--#2 Not every person wants to go /LFG. In my guild we would rather fight with each other or not at all.--
Totally understandable, and there are a lot, if not as many as there used to be, of people that feel the same way. Have you tried going to specific areas where pulls are semi easy to control, and just doing two separate groups? You can all be together, do separate pulls...but still be right there and have the /gu channel if one group needs help with something. Space the pulls out a bit, and you might be able to pull it off.
--We shouldn't loose 1/2 the possible exp per mob because we want a 7th person to group with us.--
Understandable, but again, the xp is now being divided between to groups/or 7 people.
--but they seem incapable of actually making this work (or more acurately, unwilling to ut the work in to make this actually work). Until they are, I think a nice compromise would be to give full group XP bonuses to raids, so people doing difficult things would advance more quickly than those grinding it away at some boring completely safe camp in PoP.--
How much xp would it take for you to think it was appropriate? One kill with a whole raid gives everyone 0.5-1 blue? That's crazy. People would just go in and kill yard trash that is only marginally harder than normal monsters...and get more xp for it. Raids weren't designed to be a way of leveling, they were raids for things. I don't understand where the whole concept of getting more xp from raids even came from. Xp on raids has always just been a bonus.
With what you said, not only will I be at a disadvantage in trying to level...because I have a job, and can't always play 4-20 hours a day, but now I get another disadvantage because I can't go on raids as much as you? How is that a good thing?
06-17-2003, 01:08 PM
I'll come back when Ezboard doesn't look all goofy, ugh.
06-17-2003, 08:15 PM
/shrug I really don't understand how all these 7,8 or 9 people groups started. For 3 years the game lived without this. The world turned. The raid window was added per the demands of the raiding community. Now people want to change the experience earned on raids because this new raid window happens to support raid experience. Tt was built to serve a raiding purpose, a purpose that is used daily by 200,000+ people to make their lives easier. Are people ever happy?
I once was a "casual" gamer. Now I became a hardcore raider. Why? I believe I'm playing the game how it was designed. It was designed to raid(Since SoV, it's always been this way). Maybe I'm too old school, but raiding doesn't mean xp to me.
[65 Storm Warden] Rahjeir <Chronology>
06-18-2003, 02:21 AM
IMHO, the point of raid XP is to make 2 to 4 group stuff more attractive, holding off the otherwise inevitable trend upwards in raid sizes. It should be the case that you can go on a small raid and get exp half as good as grinding and gear half as good as a full scale raid.
06-18-2003, 07:41 AM
I don't raid anymore and think the grouping bonuses should apply to raids also for the reasons Fyyr explained.
Such a bonus would be neglible when divided by 40-90 characters, but would be helpful to getting some of the LFGs off of the bench. So a mob with 2000 exp give a raid of 40 each 50 exp points now; add the bonus and they each get a whopping 90 exp. Not exactly game breaking in my mind and recall that I don't raid.
Of course, I would prefer that up to 9 people could be in the same group. Leaving the bonus structure as it is, most groups wouldn't exceed 6 anyway. But I am one of those people who feels guilty when a friend gets left out and am willing to sacrafice the exp to include them. It is just more inclusive and much easier to buff and heal and if everyone is in the same group. Besides, it would offer an avenue for more diverse groups where you could supplement healing with one more druid or you could up the paladin for rezzes and Brells.
06-18-2003, 08:35 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>/shrug I really don't understand how all these 7,8 or 9 people groups started. For 3 years the game lived without this. The world turned. The raid window was added per the demands of the raiding community. Now people want to change the experience earned on raids because this new raid window happens to support raid experience. Tt was built to serve a raiding purpose, a purpose that is used daily by 200,000+ people to make their lives easier. Are people ever happy? [/quote]
Not entirely true. No matter how you look at it, you take an experience penalty (by not getting any group bonuses) while in a "raid". Either they should give the group bonuses in the "raid experience", or they should not have "raid experience" (just go back to giving the entire exp to the group that did the most damage, with the normal bonuses).
They gave us a nice feature, and made us take an exp penalty to use it. Typical.
06-18-2003, 09:09 AM
The person who stated raids aren't for exp nailed it, in my opinion. Raid exp is merely in place to keep wizards from powerleveling each other on raids! :D
Although, it was awfully nice when I did get in the wizzie group on raids, that used to be my major source of exp. ^_^
Group encounters in EQ are designed with a 6-person perspective. I personally dinna have a problem with that, or with forming groups. Hell, if all else fails I'll take who's available and go to HoH and they can all sit AFK while I quad. :)
06-18-2003, 10:07 AM
I've seen many a post saying you need a main tank , a slower and a healer.. so there you have 3 needed spots leaving 3 for the other classes to fight over.. yadda yadda.. everyone knows what I'm talking about there.. the content only designed for 6 is BS. We already know that less than 6 can do most regular exp grinds. Its easy enough for the 1-3 extra people to sit out and not get exp, to not hose the rest .. they shouldn't have to... the difficulty hasn't really changed and the reward is the same. I don't think the /raid groups of 24 should be getting the same exp as a 6 man group ( for reg exp mobs. I like the boss mob exp boost idea) and I don't think anyone here does (except aaea). There needn't be any penalty at all on switching to /raid it encourages you to split up all on its own as far as regular exp grinding goes.
Suggested method using 100 as an exp unit :
1 0%/1 100 = 100
2 20%/2 120/2 = 60
3 40%/3 140/3 = 47
4 60%/4 160/4 = 40
5 80%/5 180/5 = 32
6 80%/5 180/5 = 32
7 80%/7 180/7 = 25
8 80%/8 180/8 = 22.5
9 80%/9 180/9 = 20
10 80%/10 180/10 = 18
11 80%/11 180/11 = 16.4
12 80%/12 180/12 = 15
36 80%/36 180/36 = 5
Notice how the exp as you get bigger raids gets to be negligible. Yet doesn't hurt an oversized group much.
Here's the current system
1 0%/1 100/1 = 100
2 20%/2 120/2 = 60
3 40%/3 140/3 = 47
4 60%/4 160/4 = 40
5 80%/5 180/5 = 32
6 80%/5 180/5 = 32
7 0%/7 100/7 = 14.2
8 0%/8 100/8 = 12.5
9 0%/9 100/9 = 11.1
10 0%/10 100/10 = 10
11 0%/11 100/11 = 9.1
12 0%/12 100/12 = 8.3
36 0%/36 100/36 = 2.8
Its probably not going to change but there are a few different play styles that should be taken into account, one of those happens to be oversized groups. Many of the smaller guilds I'm sure would see my point on this.
06-18-2003, 11:03 AM
You got it 100% abosolutely correct. THAT is what we need for the smaller casual guild. The numbers you show are exactly the way it should be implemented.
I want to invite the 7th and 8th person from my guild to group with me because we prefer to group with each other as opposed to /LFG.
It would be near impossible to abuse this because mob density isn't high enough in most places to sustain how quickly 12 people would be killing mobs.
BTW, this is the 4th time I have posted these exact same statements and Swiftfox is the first one to essentially say the same thing I have been saying and he put numbers to it.
Implementing /raid EXP this way would barely help the raiding guild, would be difficult to abuse, and would GREATLY benefit the social/casual guilds. I see absolutely no way to lose implementing EXP this way, and it can only make the majority of the player base happier as it will make more room for the unconventional group configuration.
I have many wishes from the game, but THIS issue has been the greatest wish for me since PoP came out above all things. If I could make one change to the game right now it would be to implement /raid EXP the way Swiftfox describes it above.
Kudos to you Swiftfox!
06-19-2003, 01:40 AM
I have many wishes from the game, but THIS issue has been the greatest wish for me since PoP came out above all things.
Me too, assuming it isn't that way already.
If it _is_ that way already, which I wouldn't be surprised by, SOE should open up and say so. This is one of those issues that perception is what counts, not the underlying numbers.
06-19-2003, 03:30 AM
I think that increasing raid xp would be a bad idea. The game is designed around groups of 6 killing things, not groups of 50 running around killing things.
Raids will tend to be killing far harder NPCs than groups of 6 can handle. Raids can kill many NPCs 5+ levels above them with little risk and very quickly. Because of the way the xp system works these very high level NPCs give much more experience than even NPCs within a few levels of them. If raids were to get full grouping bonuses then it would be too easy for them to get xp.
I can picture circumstances whereby nobody bothers looking for a group anymore, but just heads to the nearest uberzone and joins the raid. Certainly any classes with high DPS would be doing this.
06-19-2003, 04:29 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>I think that increasing raid xp would be a bad idea. The game is designed around groups of 6 killing things, not groups of 50 running around killing things.[/quote]
Did you not read Swiftfox's numbers?
Implemented the way Swiftfox suggests, a raid of 50 would see no bonus.
How many times do we have to say it???
The six person group ONLY promotes the Holy Trinity. Expanding the groups helps the making of UNconventional groups. This can ONLY help the game.
Once you get over 12 people you are gaining very little from the /raid feature, if implemented this way. Also most RAID areas can not support 12+ people in one spot. I feel like a broken record here. :(
Why is it so difficult to accept this is only good and not bad.
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