View Full Forums : Staying Low Level to Grind AAXP
06-15-2003, 03:30 AM
I've always been of the thought that you should try to get your level as high as possible before you started working on AAXP, but the thought just occurred to me, due to the 50+ experience bonus for killing mobs close to your level range, then that makes staying at say level 51 and killing level 53 - 55 mobs in somewhere like PoN a viable option.
I've only just theorised this but does the semi recent 50+ change put a new spin on the 'levels before aaxp' theory?
Any discussion would be appreciated, specifically by those who have taken this approach and are now a high enough level to comment on both ends of the spectrum.
06-15-2003, 04:39 AM
It all comes down to how fast you can make an AA point. Can you get an AA point at 51 (as you propose) in 30-45 minutes?
06-15-2003, 05:41 AM
Perhaps with KEI and quadding wyverns at 51, this might be viable. They are decent experience at 51 and with KEI to help downtime, you might be able to get an AA point that quickly. Problem would be having a steady supply of wyverns to kill.
Don't know of too many other options to get xp fast at 51 that would make up for what you could do at later levels.
06-15-2003, 07:28 AM
If you get to 52 you could charm a rat in PoD, haste it, and sick it on other rats for xp. This was actually really good xp (so I thought anyway) for me when I was level 60.
Although charm nerf and solo xp nerf may have changed that substantially.
06-15-2003, 08:00 AM
I never really subscribed to that theory. Mostly because very few AA are better than getting a level. SCM helps a lot, but, is it better than the larger manapool, fewer resists, better spells etc than leveling? As for grinding aa at 51, probably not worth it. If you feel you must grind some AA stop at runspeed 3 and move on. After all, You will only have access to basic AA at that level, you can't spend aa in Archetypes until level 55, in Class until 59, and PoP aa's until 61+.
06-15-2003, 08:27 AM
"Perhaps with KEI and quadding wyverns at 51, this might be viable."
Remember that AAs are equal to 51.
06-15-2003, 10:00 AM
just saw the topic and would like to point out
I was playing my 65 druid and 62 beastlord in the same group both on aa (wood elf druid and vah shir beastlord)
the AAxp on my druid went approx 1/3 -> 1/4 slower than the AAxp on my beastlord
im guessing (since nothing else would do it) that its because of lvl 65 vs lvl 62 ...
theres THAT much of a difference ..
this was in PoV btw ... stuff conned white to the beastlord (im guessing thats a big factor) and blue to the druid
so there you go.
06-15-2003, 06:39 PM
For the pure soloer, this *might* be a viable strategy to faster AA, but for folks that group more than once or twice, picking up levels before a lot of AA will help in the long run. Even with the ZEM adjustments, high level groups are going to pull in more xp than lower level groups, assuming they're pulling mobs at the same pace and at the same relative levels (ie, high dark blue to both parties).
At 60, with KEI, mage toys for a dual-wielding hasted pet that regenned like a fiend even while charmed (~300 hps/tick), fighting level 53-55 mobs in chardok before any of the charm xp nerfs, my fastest AA point still took over an hour. In PoP, at 65 the xp is twice as fast and half as hard. Fast AA may be possible, I just think it'd be a LOT of work to match high-level PoP xp. Staying 55-60 for charm camps in PoN is probably a viable option, but 52? That's gonna be rough :)
06-15-2003, 07:36 PM
i would say get to 65 then grind. Ever since i hit 65 i get AA's easier, because i have access to higher end pop zones which give more XP. Even with the recent xp changes, i will get 6% AA charm killing frogs in postorm. and 3% a kill duoing in HoH with a chanter. At 51 a quad gets you what 4%? takes much more mana and more risk.
06-15-2003, 07:42 PM
Prior to denerfing the xp range post-60 I would have suggested people think very hard about levelling past level 61, purely because of the greening out of non-PoP zones. Now that the xp range has been expanded, and most of teir2 and teir3 is open for xp, I really don't see a problem with going to 65 first, with the exception of stopping to pick up run3 at level 51 or 52.
06-16-2003, 12:11 AM
I may not have made my original point as clear as I could have in my first post.
My original intent was to question the value of using the experience bonus for mobs close to or exceeding your level range.
Due to the fact that a level 51 or there abouts there are many mobs that exceed you in level yet are still 'relatively' safe/easy to kill, would the resulting bonus for tackling high levels mobs be high enough to warrant staying at that level to grind aaxp?
I should have mentioned i'm a level 60 druid (8aaxp - levels first for this char =)
The reason I started this topic is that i've got a little 3 box team being powered by my druid, killing the PoN trash mobs shouldn't be a problem (enchanter + cleric + warrior/monk/rogue).
I was just wondering if anybody had any hard data on the exp gains for killing yellow or higher mobs.
06-16-2003, 03:37 AM
Ugh I don't know why people are still convinced than one AA is equal to level 51, it is not true! It's about 2 thirds of level 51.
I would agree that doing AAs before 60 isn't the best idea, seeing how long it takes to get an AA at 60 compared to 51. And I agree too that levels > AAs.
But it depends on your playstyle anyway, if you're just playing for fun or want to get the most of your character.
06-16-2003, 09:34 AM
A level 65 druid with no AA is far better off than a level 60 druid with 100 AA. While Exodus, SCM, innate camo etc are great AA'a and really do help out a lot; Access to Teir Three zones, Fewer resistances, bigger manapool, Much better spells (specifically DoT's, Nukes and Heals) make exping far better while both soloing and grouping.
The benefits of being 65 far out weigh waiting, Especially if you group a lot. An Average exp group in Honor will get you an aa in about 90 minutes. That's on par with what I got in Storms soloing zone in frogs with a charmed frog. (Prior to the charm nerf)
06-16-2003, 11:07 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>A level 65 druid with no AA is far better off than a level 60 druid with 100 AA. While Exodus, SCM, innate camo etc are great AA'a and really do help out a lot; Access to Teir Three zones, Fewer resistances, bigger manapool, Much better spells (specifically DoT's, Nukes and Heals) make exping far better while both soloing and grouping.[/quote]
That is a false statement. Level 65 means next to nothing for a caster if they do not have access to the spells. Larger mana pool? Yeah, maybe 200ish. What if some of those 100 AAs whet towards SCM? That right there just increased the existing mana pool far beyond 200ish mana. Place the next 12 points into ID and you just got more HPs than lvl 65 alone will get you as well. The list goes on and on. Also, I don't buy the "fewer resists" line at 65 without numbers to back it up. People that powered to 65 have not taken the time to research that statement. I am 63 with 120 AAs and trust me, the resists haven't changed to any significant degree yet. Howerver, my critcal nukes and heals have only helped myself, my group, and my guild.
Do some research and you'll soon see that the mob mentalitly that people apply to lvl 65 is entirely incorrect. At the very least, it is personal preference that is being presented as fact. It is not factual.
To the original poster, I would stress trying out viable hunting zones until you find one that you can truely cash in on in terms of AAs. An AA an hour is a decent start, especially if the area has no competition for MoBs and little risk. Get those AAs while they are easy. Since the exp change, you'll have to find what works best on your own.
06-16-2003, 01:09 PM
Belive me, AA is better.
You get it faster, can add them up, and then invest into your next AA when you get to 55 for example.
I made a friend do this. He farmed AA and got plat and has over double the AA I have. I was level 60 before he was level 40... you do the math. The guy is slowly leveling now but has so many AA by the time he is 65 I will never have the amount of AA he has.
hit 51, farm as many aa as you can, level until 55, farm more, then hit 59, more, then the big six five...
06-16-2003, 02:46 PM
Come on, AA is NOT better than levels. Never has been, never will be. A level 65 druid heals MUCH better than a 60 druid any day of the week. NI and KR are not that difficult to get. I'm not an uber druid, I don't have most of my 65 spells, but, I still managed to get most of my spectals months ago. I get far fewer resists on any spell I cast due to being higher level. I gained 25 wisdom due to the cap being raised 5 points per level automatically. My Damage via DoT's and Nukes (using Summers Flame) have upped my damage by roughly 30%. Some AA's are good, but, None of them benefit you that much for all situations.
The mana difference isn't "maybe" 200 either. With the exact same gear I have now the mana difference is just over 500 mana.
06-16-2003, 02:47 PM
For reference, here is my magelo link. This is in no way an Uber Character.
06-16-2003, 07:15 PM
60 spell vs. 65 spell : difference
Glades vs. Nine : 148 hps, 2 mana / tick
Stalker vs. Forest : 1 mana / tick
Regrowth vs. Replenishment : 10 hps / tick
Moonfire vs. Winter's Frost : 132vs175 dps, 3.59vs3.97 dpm
Nature's Touch vs. Nature's Infusion : 177 hp/s vs 466 hp/s, 2.4 hp/m vs 3.5 hp/m
Call of Karana vs. Command of Tunare : 52 cap vs 60 cap, player level vs mob level is a significant factor in charm duration
Now, if one tries to measure 65 vs 60 in terms of what kind of AA covers the difference, let's take a look:
ND3 (for a modestly equipped druid)
Regen3 (and that doesn't even come close to covering the difference, especially on other party members)
SCM3 for a 10% dpm, hp/m boost
SCF3, FoM3 (but that doesn't cover the dps boost)
HA3, AHA3, HG3, AHG3 (and that doesn't even cover the difference in healing speed and efficiency between the direct heals)
TD3 (Oh wait, druids don't get Total Domination)
Planar Power 5
12 + 12 + 3 + 12 + 30 + 45 + 10 = 124 aa points! 60-65 is roughly the equivalent of 25 aa points, so this is quite a bargain if you're considering purchasing any of the aforementioned skills.
To be fair, some AAs can't be matched by simple spell improvements : SotW, Exodus, Innate Camo are all examples of abilities to be picked up whenever one feels they'd be useful and fun. This comparison is meant to help out the folks who are weighing things like MC3, SCF3, HA3 vs levelling.
Rydex of Bristlebane
06-16-2003, 08:34 PM
Bah, Araxx I hold you to blame for corrupting the minds of that certain person to get insane AA!
At 65 spell resists "seem" to a little less, and duration for such as charm increase a little (your still dealing with random numb gen). You have been screwed by the random number generator! (252)
AA skills such as Exodus and Innate camo are great AA. I would say better than 65. You can only bank 20 AA is it? So you could sit around 55 and work on AA if that is fun. As for exp I do not notice much of a difference doing AA with my rogue in Storm and my druid in Storm. Rogue gets about 1% per kill and sometimes a few good spawns can get 3% in 2 kills. Druid gets a steady 1% per kill. Both 100% AA in a full group killing boring yard trash.
Staying 55 and get AA will get the benefit of not having to fight the big crowds in PoP if you like to solo in quite places. The well known solo spots like frogs are usually overcamped 24/7.
06-16-2003, 11:31 PM
Ok, let me explain a little:
My friend, a pally, in Rydex's guild, my old guild, would make over 1 AA a day and about 1k a day soloing at level 51. He banked the maximum amount of AAs he could, and when he invested all the AAs he wanted at level 51 and couldn't bank anymore leveled until 55. There he invested some more, and farmed some more, until he was full, then leveled until 59. Rinse and repeat. Mobs for a level 51, with current equipment and weapons, are ridiculously easy, especially for a melee hybrid like a pally.
Now, 1 AA a day might not seem like much, but this was before PoP, and remember, he was soloing.
When he leveled mobs were not so soloable, so he had to group. AA slowed down for this reason, but he still managed to get a ton in literally no time at all.
Now the guy has almost 100 AA and is either level 62 or 63. Believe me, there is no way in hell he would have that amount of AA if he had shot to 65 and farmed AA then. The reasons are that mobs yield less AA and he would NEED to group to get the exp necessary, both of these things are downtime. It also depends what is on your agenda: whether you're desperate to get 65 to play with da ubas or want to enjoy the game and experience it to the fullest. I was impatient to hit 65 after farming a few AA and playing around with some Alts, but believe me when I tell you I wish I had been 51 when Luclin came out. I would have farmed those AA like there was no tomorrow...
06-17-2003, 03:56 AM
Topics do have a habit to wander completely off topic =)
My original question still remains, i'll try to be completely clear here as to avoid any further misunderstanding.
Would you gain 1 AA point faster at level 51 killing mobs of the level 53-55ish range in PoN or alike compared to killing mobs you could kill if you were 60 or 65 (which I doubt would be level 63-65 mobs or 67 - 70, respectively).
It would be a 3 man team with a 60 druid for backup, the team makeup is Cleric, Enchanter and any of the following - Warrior/Rogue/Monk (may all be moved to seperate accounts soonish).
I'm trying to determine if the experience bonus for killing mobs closer to and exceeding your level outweighs the ability to kill said mobs faster at a higher level.
I have the rough figure in my head that a mob exceeding your level gives close to a 100% bonus, that tied in with the recent exp changes could mean excellent experience for my little 'powerlevelled' quad box team.
If we could keep on topic please and not make this ANOTHER 'AA or Regular XP' thread please, seen far too many of those and in my opinion it's your own choice, there is no 'best', the 'best' thing is whatever works for you.
06-17-2003, 04:32 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The mana difference isn't "maybe" 200 either. With the exact same gear I have now the mana difference is just over 500 mana.[/quote]
From 60 to 65 with the same equipment, I gain a total of 292 mana and 112 HPs. That is not better than what 100 AAs give me. It's not even comparable.
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Would you gain 1 AA point faster at level 51 killing mobs of the level 53-55ish range in PoN or alike compared to killing mobs you could kill if you were 60 or 65 (which I doubt would be level 63-65 mobs or 67 - 70, respectively).[/quote]
Since the new exp changes last patch, I think you'd be better off letting us know your results. However, if I had to guess, I would say, no, you would not gain AAs 1 point faster.
06-17-2003, 06:31 AM
To answer you simply Serberus: Yes, you would bet more AA at level 51 than higher.
06-17-2003, 06:39 AM
<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>From 60 to 65 with the same equipment, I gain a total of 292 mana and 112 HPs. That is not better than what 100 AAs give me. It's not even comparable.[/quote]
That's true. Nor will what I gain from 200 AAs be equivalent from what one gains from 60 to 65. But I guarantee you will spend a lot longer getting 100 AAs than you will getting 60 to 65.
I think the question he's trying to get at is whether you can get 100 AAs faster at level 60 than level 65, not whether 100 AAs is <strong>better</strong> than 65.
I haven't done an empirical study, but I can tell you that at the least it makes getting groups easier. And I've yet to find a solo spot as efficient as a good PoP group. If a group is looking at the LFG list, they will take random a 65 over a 61-64 druid anyday. At the very least get 63 for our first decent quick heal. Just my thoughts...
06-17-2003, 09:48 AM
The bonus for killing a higher level mob is VERY simple. This comes from the people that couldn't fix the crappy SoL model animations and actually made them worse.
If MobLevel+5>=YourLevel, MobXP=RegularMobXP*2
That's it. Stay 60, kill level 55 mobs, earn 2 times the experience you would if you were level 61. I know for a fact because myself at my cleric partner did it. All nettling wraiths in PoN are 55 exactly. She was 60, I was 62. She earned experience at 2x the rate I did. I've seen other smaller examples to support it.
Now, a group of level 60s can kill level 55s waaay faster than a 51 can solo 46's ... assuming it translates directly.
06-17-2003, 10:04 AM
And don't forget that you and the mob need to be level 50+ to get this bonus.
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