The third element of the charm nerf was the way aggro was handled once a certain number was reached on a mob's aggro list. I had thought it was anything more than 4 and pets will not hold agro. Now, I could be wrong right here and the rest of the post becomes inconsequential.

Some friends wanted to do something and it was easily within the power of those involved to acomplish the goal without going the whole 9 yards and building a traditional group. My thought was that my chanter, chanter's DC pet, a druid and Beastie could function such that the mob never had more than 4 on the aggro list and DC pet could MA:
1. Chanter on aggro
2. Druid on aggro
3. Chanter's DC pet on aggro
4. Beastie doing nothing to get on aggro
5. Beasti pet on aggro

It didn't work. It seemed as though the Beastie pet gained aggro and by doing so put the Beastie on aggro list as well, bringing the aggro list to greater than 4 and resulting in the chanter never having a moment to med. The beastie did literally nothing to his pet, the mob or any members of the group during fights.

I realize now that a mob will hunt me down solo if I send a pet after it and it kills my pet and that is why the Beastie gained aggro. But this was something that I really could've done solo with chanter but wanted to include friends and <strong>group</strong>. On one hand, they publically encourage us to group, then the other hand Beeyotch slaps us if we do not form a standard cleric, MA, slower, DPSx3 group. Grouping in the above instance was actually significantly more risky and innefficient because of an anti-charm nerf.

The real crappy thing about the Charm nerf is Griefers...

Player 1
Player 1 Pet
Player 2
Player 2 Pet

That's 4 on the @#%$ list already..

Now, some retard runs by and tags the mob you are fighting. Be it from having a bad day, stubbing their toe that morning, not being loved by mommy, or whatever their stupid reason.

That tips the @#%$ list scale and you now have 1 pissed off mob chasing you around, possibly summoning, etc etc, all because of some retard.

I've had the same types of problems when I group with pets and had to resort to perma-rooting the target mob, which basically meant pet melee and DoTs only.

These types of small groups aren't nearly as much fun after the nerf, so I don't do it much anymore. It's a shame really, as some of the most fun I've had in PoP involved small, non-traditional groups with pets. :(

*edit - removed rudundant word
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Edit: Ok, I was wrong here. I went back and tried a 3 person group with 2 pets (1 charmed, 1 dire-charmed), and pets stopped taking aggro once everyone was on the hate list. I'm not sure what I was thinking earlier--maybe my pet was not tanking the same mobs as the enchanter's pet?

As far as I can tell though, a summoned pet _can_ still tank even when the rule goes into effect. We had a mob in tactics with enough things on its hate list for it to ignore my charmed pet, and rather than chasing a player it happily went after a summoned pet that was closer by. That's actually good news for my pet groups as charmed pets can still be used for their heavy damage output, as long as mobs are slowed so a summoned pet can briefly tank a mob.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>The rule only applies to charmed pets, not summoned pets. I don't think charmed pets count towards the total, but as soon as a fourth _player_ is on the hate list, pets take aggro. I still trio with an enchanter and a cleric, where both the enchanter and I have charmed pets.[/quote]

I want the pet to have the aggro so tht it can tank for us. It works fine when I 2-box my druid and chanter and their DC pets and when It is my enchanter, DC pet and two other players. I'm guessing you are aggro kiting and don't want your pets getting the aggro.

Where did this 4 person rule come along frog?

That just opinion from personal experience or someone do some serious testing or get the info from someone from soe?

Was wondering about this thing as well but came up with another idea (will probably test to tommorow to check)

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Where did this 4 person rule come along frog?[/quote]

That came along with the charm nerfs. If the hate list exceeds 4, pets will no longer be able to maintain agro and a player character will immedietley be placed at the top of the hate list.

It really shouldn't be counting the pets themselves in the total.

I regularly group with a beastlord, a mage, and a shaman. We have consistently proven that simply hitting pet attack puts the caster on the mob's aggro list, even if they do nothing else for the entire fight. That's why your BL jumped on the list. Personally, I think this is borked.

As a note, when you have 5 or more people/pets on the argo list it only ignores the charmed pets, the mob will still go for normal pets if it has the taunt. Grouping with a Cleric and a Beastlord, the Warder will hold the argo while the charmed pet provides for dps.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>As a note, when you have 5 or more people/pets on the aggro list it only ignores the charmed pets, the mob will still go for normal pets if it has the taunt. Grouping with a Cleric and a Beastlord, the Warder will hold the aggro while the charmed pet provides for dps.[/quote]

I disagree! Charmed pets or regular it makes no difference, the key is the number on the hate list regardless of whether they are charmed or summoned.

I do most of my experiencing 3-boxing enchanter/cleric/necro combination, and this works fine with the new aggro rules even with everyone plus pets on the hate list (ench debuffing, nec dotting, cleric nuking/healing) a charmed (or summoned) pet will hold aggro like always. Even adding a fourth person with pet has always worked for me so far but adding a fifth and sixth is where things get screwy, here the mobs will totaly ignore all pets, unless the mob is rooted or one of the fifth or sixth is a tank, making an all caster group of greater than 4 a none starter.

Which at the end of the day has turned out to be counter productive since I will no longer invite that mage/druid/wiz sat at zone with LFG up because it screws up the pets being able to tank!

Ahh, the experience is from a Cleric, Beastlord and pet, and a Druid and charmed Pet. At first the cleric was debuffing mob and acquiring argo. This made for 5 in the argo list, the mob would completely ignore the charmed pet and focus on the Warder. The cleric went afk for a bit and I decided to heal. With only 4 on the argo list (Bst, Warder, Druid,

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>Which at the end of the day has turned out to be counter productive since I will no longer invite that mage/druid/wiz sat at zone with LFG up because it screws up the pets being able to tank! [/quote]
And try explaining this to those you do allow in the group. Yikes.

<strong>Group:</strong>"You are welcome to join and can help between fights, but if you do anything during the fight it will aggro the mob on me."
<strong>LFG:</strong>"Huh?. Ok."
<strong>Group:</strong>"Ack! How did I get aggro?"
<strong>LFG:</strong>"Huh? I didn't do enough damage to get aggro."

It is just too complicated to explain, unneccessary and anti-grouping.