RE-EDIT: Thank you kindly for the information nanyea that helps to clarify things for me 8). ill spend some time checking out the information on links you posted 8)


Greetings everyone.

EDIT : hmmm took me 2hrs plus to get jst these data points. Not sure i could sit through another 4hr plus to get 100 lots of data for cha 80 and 6hrplus for cha 130. would be hard for my druid to remain 17 unless i jst charmed and took pet to a safe corner and kept up recharms. I plan to continue to use charm with my druid as his primary source of xp so i will keep track of as many datapoint as i can as he levels up. once he is higher level ill post the data then one never knows 8).
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Well i know i read before on the boards here that it has not been realy confirmed if cha affects duration of druid charms or not. I recently made a new druid he is 17 going on 18, so i decided to run some test and collect data.

information:

level 17 almost 18 druid base cha 80 only pullled an charmed hard blue griffawns in north karana. I was using the stop watch feature on my watch. The times data i collected i am giving a plus /minus 5 secs to cover delay of me hiting stop and start after charm brok or charm landed. I decided on recording 30 successfull charms that lasted over 10secs. using befreind animal spell <the level 14 one>.

BASE CHA 80 DATA:
[1] 2min 41sec , [2] 20 secs, [3] 34sec, [4 ] 1min 21 sec, [5] 45 sec, [6] 2min 45sec, [7] 57secs, [8] 4min 41 sec , [9] 2min 18sec , [10] 1min 51 sec, [11] 44 sec, [12] 2min 45sec, [13] 2min 14 secs, [14] 1min 37sec, [15] 27sec, [16] 57sec, [17] 4min 29sec, [18] 2min 10sec, [19] 2min 53sec, [20] 1min 30sec, [21] 3min 27sec, [22] 2min 4sec, [23] 1min 10 sec, [24] 6min 13 sec, [25] 1min 52sec, [26] 6min 20sec, [27] 2min 2sec, [28] 54sec, [29]1min 14sec, [30] 2min 25sec.

In collecting this data i had 4 charms lasted less than 10 sec so threw them out. I also had 5 that i failed to time due to haveing to run not to die or not properly reseting my stop watch .

BASE cha 130 data <used 2 opal encrusted stiens>:

This data is not complete as i was geting to tired and had to sleep, but i am including here and will edit this post tommorow after i complete the data for cha 130.

[1] 6min 20, [2] 1min 43sec, [3] 1min 32sec, [4] 1min 49 sec, [5] 1min 54 sec, [6] 47sec, [7] 6min 23sec, [8] 4min 15sec.

I had 2 times that were less than 10 secs and didnt recored them while collecting these cha 130 data. I hade one instance were due to runing or unable to reset stop watch properly.


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EDIT:
I know that this is small sample size but its best i could do in time i had today hope this will help and i will be posting more data as zelnier levels up.
Glunier /zelnier

When I played a Enc, I saw no diff with charming with low CHA, then with a high CHA. Most of the time I never bothered to buff myself and have a CHA of 135. I could mez and charm everything just as good as someone with 255.

To think if it made no difference to me as a enc, I don't believe it would make any difference to a druid.

Though at the Las Vegas FF, Or was it the Boston one.... Hrm Don't remember. Anyway SoE said, yes CHA matters. However I never saw it do anything in my 4 years of playing.

try this: get a shaman friend to come with you just to malos and malosinia then test data.

test 1: no glamour, no malos and no malosinia, gather significant test data

test 2: glamour, no malos no malosinia, gather test data

test 3: glamour + malos, no malosinia, gather test data

test 4: glamour + malos + malosinia, and .... gather test data


I am sure if you get a decent sized data pool you will see that MR is the determining factor on length of charms

In order to determine anything from this type of testing, you will need to do hundreds of data samples. As you recognize, a handful of samples is not statistically significant.

The mob in question should be the same mob (not mobs of the same type, as there is some variability in MR even then), with the same debuffs (if any), and you should have exactly the same buffs and stats.

Exhausting testing, to be sure.

I charm solo'd in Chardok from about 54-61 (not all the xp'ing I did, but that was my solo spot) and Since I'm sending my pet in against casters.... do I want his MR to suck? Dizok Invokers and Shai' din Partisans are none too forgiving with MR. Anyone have any comments?

Well no hard data here but when I was charming in PoN back in the day (well its feels like it) I didnt notice any difference when adding an extra 100cha. If there was it wasnt sustantial and definately not worth swaping out my usual primary/sec/range items for and thats test enough for me :)

As for wanting your charmed pets MR to suck my personal choice would be yes.. I would rather the pet take the pain then me :)

CHA affects the inital resist check against trying to charm the pet.

After that you get a BREAk check every tick (6 seconds) which is based on level vs level and the MR of the charmed pet.

CHA has no effect on duration of charms, just the resist check on the initial charm.

SOE mentioned at one of their Fanfaires that CHA affects enchaner charms (during periodic resistance checks). Druids and necromancers aren't affected by CHA.

What I read from their statement is that enchanters get a resistance check bonus with extra CHA while druids and necromancers don't. As in an enchanter gets a bonus to the base MR check when a mob rolls on charm breaks while necromancer and druid charms roll on base MR only. This is an enchanter bonus in much the same way clerics get a heal bonus.

This is just my opinion. I could be wrong.

You may also want to test Tash + Malo + Malosinia. That combination there would yield the greatest loss of MR.

Charm does an initial check that consists of a level of caster vs level of mob

Then a secondary check of mob that is augmented by MR

Charisma affects this by adding a (tertiary) modifer to the MR approx 10 percent of your total charisma... so a 300 chr enchanter gets a bonus neg 30 check. After the initial charm land..theres a per tick check based off the server clock... ie the clock checks every 6 seconds according to the server and say your charm lands on second 4 of that 6... the mob gets a chance to break again in 2 seconds... thats how you get instant or early breaks that dont last a full tick."

Skills like Total Domination modify the charm break by changing the interval in which charm breaks are calculated:
Total Domination 1 has a check every second tick.
Total Domination 2 has a check every 3rd tick.
Total Domination 3 has a check every 4th tick

Ive never asked for confirmation on other classes, but as far as gut feeling I dont think they get the charisma bonus for charm/mez/fear

btw lots of chanter parses available at

www.therunes.net
eq.crgaming.com

go to the appropriate chanter sections and use charisma charm as keyword search, Ive posted extensive logs there along with several other enchanters

Thanks for clarifying Nanyea.

There are some very good parses. Very convincing as to the importance of CHA for enchanters at least.

Originally posted by Kuolon
You may also want to test Tash + Malo + Malosinia. That combination there would yield the greatest loss of MR.

Oh these definitely make a difference.....if your charming and have a shaman, mage or enchanter around definitely have them debuff MR.

Yup...Two things effect duration.

1. Level of player vs. level of Pet.
2. MR of Pet.

Skills like Total Domination modify the charm break by changing the interval in which charm breaks are calculated:
Total Domination 1 has a check every second tick.
Total Domination 2 has a check every 3rd tick.
Total Domination 3 has a check every 4th tick

The above data contradicts (relatively recent) parses done over in the enchanter eq castersrealm forums.

TD 1 seemed to up charm duration by about 10% to 20% (up to the max duration cap), not a factor of 2.

Not that these druids care, but just something you should keep in mind the next time you put forward this info.

Technically, if a mob will break charm on it's first resistance roll (after initial charm), Total Domination 1 will extend charm by double, TD2 by triple and TD3 by quad.

This extension gets smaller the longer charm lasts (less breaks). If your charm lasts 7.5 mins (Command of Druzzil - 75 ticks), then a mob will get 75 attempts to break charm without TD, 37 attempts with TD1, 25 attempts with TD2 and 18 attempts with TD3.

Note that charm breaks are random. All that's guaranteed by Total Domination 3 is that you will at least get 18 secs on your charm (4 ticks - 1 tick slop for time of casting charm vs time of ticks).

you need to shift yer data for the serverside timer, then check the data from the logs (logs also happen to be on client timer so some variation) for the most part its within 1-2 seconds of correct, not sure what the margin of error thing is called, but its pretty low. Also with the above postulate, it is possible to have instant breaks (which frequently does happen) if yer approaching start of a new tick when it lands.

EDIT: bleh you all covered it

keeps his mouth shut

Just a coupla things to add,

I'm 98 percent positive that cha has absolutely nothing to do with fear duration, as one poster hinted at. This was a rumor necros started back in the day, based on the fact that so much necro gear had neg cha. The rumor was, low cha caused fear to last longer. I'm pretty sure Verant came right out and said this was not true.

They also stated that cha does in fact effect charm and mezz resist rates. Their response was in answer to an enchanter asking the question, so there was some small debate about whether it was only true for enchanters, or whether it could be extrapolated to other classes. Common sense would suggest its just the way the spell line works, and so would apply to everyone...

For those people saying they dont notice a huge difference in charming with low and high charisma...well, unless you can see statistics in real time, and you are always charming mobs in the exact same scenario (i.e.: same relative cons, same MR mob, same buffs/debuffs in play on the mob) you are NOT gonna be able to tell a difference unless it is just HUGE.

I'm not saying that higher cha causes tremendous gains in charming ability. However, two things. (1) Like I said, people don't see statistics in real time-Joe Blow relating his anecdotal experiences with charm and charisma is nothing but bad science; and (2) Pretty much every stat increase gives only marginal gains. It's simply a question of how MUCH of a gain you get. With cha and charm, its a nebulous, rng-ish type connection. Difficult to quantify, and therefore assign any real value to.

Nanyea, I'm real interested in some of those theories you put out there regarding charm and charisma. I've been reading about this issue for about three or four years now, and don't recall anyone ever offering any evidence about charisma directly reducing a mobs MR check, much less using specific numbers such as you have. I'm wondering how someone could possibly pick that information apart...maybe someone used ShowEQ or some such thing, would that even give that much information? Anyway, do you have an exact link to where you got this information? I sifted through the site you linked a bit, it wasn't readily apparant. I'm also curious about the TD effect you described. It may be valid, but do you have actual links that describe this effect? Again, I've not seen any statistics, quotes, or reports that represent what you're describing. But I might've just missed something on an eq break, or maybe I just read different websites...

All that's guaranteed by Total Domination 3 is that you will at least get 18 secs on your charm (4 ticks - 1 tick slop for time of casting charm vs time of ticks).

No that is not how TD works. You can and do get charm breaks within the first 4 ticks with TD3, I had one yesterday where I charmed a mob (no resist) and it broke a split second after it landed.

The most likely answer is that every tick a check is done to see if charm holds, and (for the sake of argument and the figures may be way off) let's say charm has a 40% chance of breaking every tick with no TD aa, then with TD 1, 2 and 3 the chance of breaking reduces to perhaps 38%, 36% and 34% respectively.