PLEASE READ THE ENTIRE POST CAREFULLY

PLEASE READ RYTANS POST IN THIS THREAD BEFORE VOTING


As the difference between option 2 and what Rytan sugested "option 4" is Virtue wont overwrite Pot9 Just assume 2 = 4

All,

Rytan the designer who is looking after the stacking issue with the above mentioned spells is looking to see how the druid community would like the stacking issue solved.

Now the three options in the list are the only possibilities the way the game is designed its not going to be possible to get the ideal situation where Protection and Blessing overwrite each other however Virtue Will not over write them.


Please think about this and be clear which one you select.

Below is the options please reference each choice to these descriptions.

<hr>

Option 1

Option 1 is how we have it at the moment.


Protection of the Nine: will block Blessing of the Nine or Virtue.

Blessing of the Nine: will block Virtue and Protection of the Nine.

Virtue: will block Blessing of the Nine and Protection of the Nine.


So basically all three block each other.

<hr>

Option 2

Option 2 is the proposed way to have it.

Protection of the Nine: will be overwritten by either Blessing of the Nine or Virtue.

Blessing of the Nine: will block Virtue and Protection of the Nine, and overwrite Protection of the Nine.

Virtue: will block Blessing of the Nine and Protection of the Nine, and overwrite Protection of the Nine.


This will mean that if you have protection of the nine and you have Blessing of the nine or Virtue cast on you then it will overwrite it.

However if you have Blessing of the Nine or Virtue then Protection of the Nine will NOT overwrite them.

<hr>

Option 3

Option 3 is the way it originally was before these changes.


Protection of the Nine: will be overwritten by either Blessing of the Nine or Virtue.

Blessing of the Nine: will be overwritten by either Protection of the Nine or Virtue.

Virtue: will block blessing of the Nine and Protection of the nine, and overwrite Protection of the Nine and Blessing of the Nine.

<hr>


I will keep this poll running until next patch has been done which I assume then the decision has been made or if for some reason a new solution is found (slim).


Please also feel free to add any comments below.

Tils

Well, the way it is not is really unacceptable. There's no plusses to it.

Option 2 is interesting, but I really cant see any advantage over the original Option 3. It's not like clerics go running around randomly virtue-ing people, since it costs a peri...

Our standard raid buff is Bot9/Symbol, and we switch to HoV when needed, and that really will still work best under the original system.

One question, why isnt there some issue between HoV and regular Virtue? Like there seems to be with pot9 and bot9... why does Nine have 2 stacking issues and (ho)Virtue just one (seemingly)?

Thats because Virtue is the best HP buff out there. It wins on default because of the way the game mechanics work. So it doesnt check if anything is better like PoT9 / BoT9 is doing at the moment.

Tils

When I look at lucy.fnord.net, I see that Virtue have rules for both blocking and overwriting. Why wouldn't something like this work?

Protection of the Glades
1: Increase AC by 24
2: Increase Max Hitpoints by 470 (L60) to 485 (L65)
3: Increase HP when cast by 470 (L60) to 485 (L65)
4: Increase Mana by 6 per tick
5: Stacking: Block new spell if slot 1 is effect 'AC' and < 1080
6: Stacking: Block new spell if slot 2 is effect 'Max Hitpoints' and < 2290
7: Stacking: Overwrite existing spell if slot 4 is effect 'Increase Mana' and > 7

Blessing of the Nine
1: Increase AC by 32
2: Increase Max Hitpoints by 618
3: Increase HP when cast by 618
4: Increase Mana by 8 per tick
5: Stacking: Block new spell if slot 1 is effect 'AC' and < 1109
6: Stacking: Block new spell if slot 2 is effect 'Max Hitpoints' and < 2618
7: Stacking: Overwrite existing spell if slot 4 is effect 'Increase Mana' and > 5

Doing this, as far as I can tell, will only cause two stacking issues. Cleric self-buffs and the 62 mage self-buff. Since they're self-buffs, they're in control of that themselves, and that would certainly be preferable to having to tell people to click it off, and it would resolve the stacking issues with virtue since there's no mana regen component in Virtue at all.

And since the cleric and the mage allready have to choose between self buff and Aego-type buff or druid hp/ac (with symbol), it shouldn't make a significant impact.

I'm all for leaving the overwriting of BoT9 / PoT9 in its original format for the following reasons:
1) When we need to AE Virtue, we don't need half the raid going oh I still have 9
2) When we need to AE BoT9 having PoT9 block it is lame
3) When we want to refresh PoT9 for someone having them click it off is lame.

So from my perspective, I'd rather us leave the stacking the way it was instead of introducing more ways for people to screw up.

Iegil

I assume Virtue here includes every thing down to Temperance?

I think 2 would be the best option IF it were possible to add a flag to the 9's that basically blocked any spell that was under level 63.

I have had the incredible bad luck of zoning into two MGB Temperances in PoK in a week. That is just frustrating.

(I know, that will teach me from coming up the nexus stone instead of porting :))

The entire spell stacking system seems to be full of one offs and hacks, whats a few more :)

I think im with the minority here I actualy would like it back as it was...but thats the point of this poll not to pick what I want..what the majority want.


Tils

Messagebox= "Would you like 'Spell: Virtue' to overwrite your current buff 'Spell: Protection of the Nine'?

Yes No.

I never had any problem in the original way. I don't understand why people get in a fuss virtue being able to overwrite. My guild does ae 9/symbol so we never have to worry about getting virtue if we don't want it. Still, even if your guild does mgb virtue and you prefer pot9....I'm sure it's because the majority of your guild wants it that way, so why focus on making the minority happier than the majority? I know I'm a bit peeved at the current state of the spell and I would not like option 2 either.

Because not all guilds do 9/symb they rather have 1 buff vs 2 buffs slots, especially if certain dots etc overwrite 9. Some mobs hit you with 4 different dots etc.. so buff slots are at a premium, and I have found that some guilds prefer their druids to Mass SoTW and save their mass group buff AA just for that reason.

Not all guilds use the same tactics.

Option 1 is the way to go... and it makes the most sense.

Since the programmers can't figure out how to allow Bo9 to overwite Po9 and block Virtue at the same time, the hell with it -- let 'em all bounce.

Basically, if you want a different buff than what you have, click off the old one -- easy.

Actually I'm going to have to eat some crow here. I had about an hour conversation with Scott Hartsman this afternoon and we figured out a way to make it all work in perfect(tm) harmony.

Virtue will bounce Protection of the 9 and Blessing of the 9

Blessing of the 9 will bounce Protection of the 9 and Virtue

and Protection of the 9 will bounce Virtue and be overwritten by Blessing of the 9

I *think* that covers all the bases. The only time it would be a problem would be if you were trying to refresh someone's Blessing of the 9 by casting Protection of the 9 on them. Which seems, at least to me, to be relatively minor and not likely to come up very often.

So I guess this is option 4 :)

Ryan

I voted for the original way; I think it's unfair for a spell that costs no component to bounce one that does. I just imagine what it would feel like if I cast the banish spell that costs a star ruby and it bounced because a certain debuff/DoT was already on the mob...

Woot Ryan that sounds good to me.. I vote for 4 :)

Many, many thanks Rytan ...

option 4 gets the thumbs up :D

Yay for option 4 hehe...

I guess the lesson here is, never settle for apparent choices! 8)

Thanks Rytan, that seems to be the best all around solution.

Gah something just occured to me.. does the new solution keep aego and temp from overwriting po9/bot9 too I assume? Hope so :)

Originally posted by Vila
Option 1 is the way to go... and it makes the most sense.

Since the programmers can't figure out how to allow Bo9 to overwite Po9 and block Virtue at the same time, the hell with it -- let 'em all bounce.

Basically, if you want a different buff than what you have, click off the old one -- easy.

Well, you are for SURE not a raiding druid =)

P9 blocking B9 is the pain in a raiding guild, if the guild is using B9/Symbol combo.

Tubby

Yeah, option 4 is pretty good ;-)))

tubby

I meant this option vs. having the stacking issues all weirded out...

...Well, Bo9 won't normally overwrite Po9 but, oh wait, its Tueday so it will, its on Wednesdays that Virtue bounces, Fridays Virtue will overwrite Bo9, but not Po9.... you get the idea...

And, as I later posted, Option 4 is definately the way to go.

Gogo option4! :)

Bah! That'll teach me to vote and then read the thread.

I voted for option 2, but now I've heard about option 4 I want that one instead!

Option 4 all the way, would solve all the current problems for me :)

Hugs,
Tiniane.

Im going to leave the poll up.....and assume everyone who voted option 2 would infact option what Rytan sugested because the only change was the fact virtue wouldnt overwrite both types of 9 which is good :)

So if you want what Rytan sugested select option 2

Tils

OK voted for 2(4) :)

Thank, Ry! Option 4 it is!

I suspect those that wanted 1 and 3 would want option 4 too (except the random Cleric grief posting here).

Definately option 4 :)

Option 4 is teh win.

Originally posted by Vila
Option 1 is the way to go... and it makes the most sense.

Basically, if you want a different buff than what you have, click off the old one -- easy.

You cant get, on a raid with 70 ppl, tell everyone to klick p9 off if they have it up. This simply dont work.

Sure this stacking bug doesent matter much to people who dont raid, and never MGB B9 regulary, but it *DO* matter for Raiding Druids.

So, dont say its easy to click off the old one =)

Tubby

Virtue will bounce Protection of the 9 and Blessing of the 9

Blessing of the 9 will bounce Protection of the 9 and Virtue

and Protection of the 9 will bounce Virtue and be overwritten by Blessing of the 9


All we want to do it stop virt overwriting pot9 and bot9 and stop pot9 and bot9 overwriting virt. Theres no reason pot9 and bot9 cant overwrite each other.

It would be really nice to have pot9 and bot9 filter an incomming HoV into kazad, but that would be asking too much :)

lol Add another who read the "other" thread first, then voted in the poll before reading this thread.

Option 4 is prime!

Once again, thank you Rytan for taking the time and energy to address this issue for us so quickly and with such care to our needs. :)

I agree. Option 4 is the best by far. =) Thanks Rytan for taking the time to figure it out.

Nine's should overwrite nines and glades. Virtues and Nines should bounce. Keep them separated. Hard code it. They managed to do it with the hybrid HP buffs. Its really not that hard.

Hmm, original way Pot9 would get bounced if the target already had Bot9.

Either stick with the old way, where those very few (paladins) that uses virtue instead of 9+Kazad, are the only ones where 9 will bounce. Or go with Rytan's way, wich would only cause a problem when you have encounteres with something like Fennin Ro or Grioihin (or is it Ofoossaa?).

Simply put, Option 4 : thumbs up.

- nieros

#4 ... Thanks!

I vote 4 also! - well 2..but since 2 is 4 :p

Reading the first three had me stumped since it depended on tactics, but #4 sounds the best overall.

Either stick with the old way, where those very few (paladins) that uses virtue instead of 9+Kazad, are the only ones where 9 will bounce. Or go with Rytan's way, wich would only cause a problem when you have encounteres with something like Fennin Ro or Grioihin (or is it Ofoossaa?).

All of our pallys use virtue kago. They hate pot9/bot9 heh.

In encounters like Fenn ro /Offossa you scream them to take bot9/pot9 of or they go die to ae :p Simple as that !

Option 4 all the way !

Maybe there is already a post on this, but I can't find a search function on these boards to find it...

Has anyone else noticed a problem with bot9 refreshing itself? Several times in the past week, I have cast bot9 on my group because 1 or 2 died. Within a few minutes, other members of my group tell me 'bot9 is fading'. So, they still had the original cast from an hour ago, and did not get new timer. A few times, I have checked that all members were in range, because I have seen the problem so many times.

A few times, I have cast 9 on other groups, and had mine start fading shortly after. Usually, /tgb casts hit me too.

I don't get a bounced message, but it appears the timer won't reset.

Cleric here, #4 is the best by far for most raiding guilds (at least it would be for us).

Nindor

I voted for 2 wishing we had an Option 4 before Option 4 was posted.

Option 4 is definitely the way to go.