at least a few people have mentioned to me that level cap will be raised to 70 or 75 with the new expansion...

Fact of fiction? and if so what do you think about it...

i have a strong feeling doing this will disbalance the game that is already revolving on pop and time raids, but i might be wrong.

Do you all see this as a positive change or negative?

Not a SOE statement fact. I see it as a strong possibility though.
I'd like it if they raised it to 70/75, and threw in a ton more AAs.

Its just an educated guess but I'ld say yes the level cap will be increased. There are several reasons.

Sony has stated this will be a raid oriented expansion, which means there will be new raid encounters that will be tougher than PoP elemental/time level encounters. Coupled with rumors about new alternate advancement abilities... all these does seem to point to new spells, new abilities and thus new level requirements.

Also, Sony has stated they would like to move away from CCH in raid encounters. What better way to do this than to increase melee hp so that complete heal will not be sufficient to keep the tanks alive? Already, time level warriors have broken the 10k hp barrier. A level cap increase would mean probably mean tanks with 15k hp or more. Coupled with new and better heal spells and AA for priests and we might stop using CCH chains for these new raid encounters. I'm thinking along the lines of 5k quick heals, HoTs for clerics, 4k quick heals and melee mitigation spells for druids and 3k HoT and a few new slow spells for shamans. This would also be the time to readjust the aggro system since 5k quick heals are going to mean instant death for priests :p

Why are you using chain celestial heals? =-p

CCH! (http://home.att.ne.jp/surf/mirage/agent_sinzan_2.html)

Seriously dont see the point behind raising the level cap. Each time they do it causes huge balance issues and trivializes years worth of content.

More AA's with other AA pre-req's is a far less potentially damaging route to take.

Tia

I'm having enough trouble keeping up with all the AAs, last thing I need is to have to worry about getting 70/75.

I did not really enjoy the game until I reached max level. Then I was free to persue quests and see new places. Until then its grind - grind - grind. No time for quests, for looking at new zones, for following the story. Just grind-grind-grind.

No, I do not want to have to level again.

Already it is hard to find mobs up to play with because they are being single grouped by high end guilds. Raising the limit will fix it so that even fewer are up and the ones that are one grouped now will be soloed. Try to get 40 people of the appropriate level organized enough to get to a mob faster than it takes one person. Its not going to happen.

However, we all know this game isn't for the players, its for the developers. They couldn't care less unless your a cutting edge guild.

I love to explore and go through the story. Unfortunately, I don't see that I can. No doubt this will require at least elemental gear to be average and large numbers of guildies on at all times. This may be the first expansion I don't get. I already play a lot less than I ever did.

I think it's a definite possibility. Sony has to keep adding stuff so we continue to have goals to achieve. I think that's why I burned out on LDoN. The idea of playing for gear simply didn't entice me the same as growing in power.

Of course, I think Sony will be opening themselves to an entirely new set of balancing issues, but at least they'll have an easier way to retune melee next time around.

...and trivializes years worth of content.


Years of content already is trivialized. And that's not a bad thing. As your character grows in power, you would expect that encounters and events that used to be quite difficult for you will become much easier.

You can't deny that part of the satisfaction in leveling is being able to open a can on some of the older stuff that used to give you headaches...:)

I agree with Scirocco.

I also think it's a strategic move on SOE's part. One way to 'cater' to the casual crowd is to make things easier for them, whilst at the same time introducing much more difficult content for the uber.

It's easier now for a group to gear up in HOT then it was when velious was first released. It is a boon to players, IMO.

When the top-end players move on the next expansion, Elementals and Time will be opened up to players that aren't as hard core... not so much at the bleeding edge, so to speak.

It does have drawbacks, sure. Guilds will have segments that will want to immediately grind up to the highest level, leaving other segments of the guild behind.

Also, from the same rumour mill, you'll be required to have 35 AA's to have access to each level increase. So, if you have 70 AA, the most you'll be able to increase is 2 levels, until you get your next 35 AA's. That could potentially create large disparity in a guild.

Wyte

The level limit should be raised...why? So that PoP content can be done by reasonably-sized groups of people. Personally I think we should all rise up and march on SOE if they *ever* release content that *requires* more than 40 people again...

Sheesh, I still won't level to 65 (or even 64) since I don't have those spells yet, and there's no point is levelling as a caster if you don't have your new spells. (Assuming you don't raid, which I don't). 20 extra HPs and a few less resists doesn't make up for getting less XP per every mob killed (assuming all your kills give bonus XP, which mine do).

They'll either have to open up more zones, or at least put in alternate quests for tier 3/4. If the "raiders" leave the upper tiers, and the casuals have no way to get there, then they may as well just delete the zones.

Tat

Years of content already is trivialized. And that's not a bad thing. As your character grows in power, you would expect that encounters and events that used to be quite difficult for you will become much easier.

True but there's a point at which it should be impossible for you to bottomfeed and deprive appropriately level people that content. LDoN instanced zones are a step in that direction. Only EQ2 is going to fully realize that potential though.

While you can kill MobA solo, doesn't mean you should. It's not fair to the appropriate leveled people who need that mob for some reason.

Why is it not fair to them? Because they too can kill it and get what they what? Because they don't even bother to kill it because the loot isn't worth it?

most who kill mobA solo do it for the chalange, though, and would gladly give up whatever quest item or trivial (to them) loot.

think about the dragons in West Wastes.... nobody who kills them actually needs the spells or worked dragonhide...

They'll either have to open up more zones, or at least put in alternate quests for tier 3/4. If the "raiders" leave the upper tiers, and the casuals have no way to get there, then they may as well just delete the zones.

This is a good point. I wonder how many people are in Vex Thal or Veeshan's Peak anymore.

I know my casual guild isn't in either of them, even though we could kill the mobs and could use the gear upgrades, because none of us have the time to dedicate to the insane key quests.

It would be nice if, with each expansion for the ubers, they open up some of the previously "uber only" zones to the casuals. Removing the key requirement for Veeshan's Peak isn't going to upset the order of the universe at this point in time.

I don't know about other servers but on mine I have observed casual guilds slowly powering up and entering what were previously "end-game" zones. Thats right folks, casual guilds are now killing Avatar of War. My friend's guild, who only raids 2-3 targets a week, are now entering VT, killing Lord Seru and doing HoH trials.

6 months ago, my server's tier ranking was :
1 Time guild
2 Elemental guilds
4 VT guilds
5 Ssra guilds
10+ Velious/kunark guilds

Today :
3 Time guilds
4 Elemental guilds
4 VT guilds
8+ Ssra guilds
10+ Velious/kunark guilds

The point being guilds of all sizes have increased in strength since PoP was released. The "lower level" end zones like HoT, Kael, Ssra temple, VT are still as occupied as ever, by casual raiding guilds at this moment in time. PoP end zones are getting increasingly crowded as more guilds get elemental or time capable.

I'm pretty sure that guild on my server who has been farming time for 6 months now want new content to work on. Likewise, the 2 newer time level guilds wish to own Time for themselves while the 4 elemental guilds are eyeing on time. I say its about time for a new expansion with new raids and new level caps. It will only make life easier for every guild in the tier ranking.

Increasing the level cap wouldn't be a huge issue in-and-of itself, but the *way* in which it is increased could be problematic.

The idea of an AA requirement to level is interesting but will certainly slow down casual leveling and benefit the ubers.

(Have heard of an actual petition complaining to have the "you must spend some AA points blah blah" message removed when he zones...)

Those ubers that have 200+ AA's saved will immediately be 70/5. Not much of a challenge there.

If a requirement is necessary to hit the "new" level cap, hopefully SoE will have the foresight to make it seperate from AA points.

Go ahead an raise it. The world has not collapsed the last two times. The nice thing about level increases and aas is that everyone can do them.

Sheesh, I still won't level to 65 (or even 64) since I don't have those spells yet, and there's no point is levelling as a caster if you don't have your new spells. (Assuming you don't raid, which I don't). 20 extra HPs and a few less resists doesn't make up for getting less XP per every mob killed (assuming all your kills give bonus XP, which mine do).


That's a cop-out, in my opinion. First, there are many reasons for leveling to 65 even without the spells: higher level AAs, better mana regen, better HP regen, more HP and mana, lower resists, lower aggro, and better chance of resisting mob spells are the primary ones besides spells.

And let's get serious about spells: you can buy 61-62 spells for 50 pp each or less on many servers, and a good selection of the 63-64 spells for not much more. It's not that hard to make plat...you practically have to work at NOT making it in order to not be able to afford your spells.

And as far as the blue mobs in the "bonus" area, the answer is simple: you do mobs of a higher level that are still in your bonus range. And guess what...they're higher level, so you get more XP per kill, per time unit, however you want to measure it. I was getting an AA point per half hour on average back when I cared about such things....I wouldn't have come close if I didn't get the levels first.

You're missing the AA XP train when you stop yourself from leveling up. Why deliberately hamstring yourself?

You are apparently unable to see through your well-equipped-and-well-connected glasses:

1) Higher level AAs? I don't even have all the lower level ones I want

2) Better mana regen? LOL that's a hoot. 1 extra mana/tick at 65? My standing mana regen (with KEI) is already 34. Not THAT much of a difference.

3) Better HP regen? No idea what you are referring to, but assume you mean something like another HP/tick at 65. Be still my heart. And would have no impact on my game play in any way, shape, or form.

4) more HP and mana? Ok another 20 HP for each of the remaining levels I have left (2), and another 50-ish mana per level. Big deal. Focuses, clickies, and FT are where it's at. (And the spells I still need)

5) lower resists? I don't raid. The stuff I kill either doesn't need debuffing, or if it does, I debuff it, so problem solved.

6) lower agro? Not really a problem so far.

7) resisting mobs spells? Not really an issue.

As I said, I don't raid. Don't have the schedule for it. So I solo/multi-box/group. And without access to more hunting grounds WITH the higher level mobs, and some reasonable access to the specs and runes, I won't see much progress.

An AA every 30 minutes? How nice for you. Not in the zones I can access, or in the case of frogs, at camps that are actually free more than once a week when I check.

Regarding spell cost. Yes I bought all my 61-62 spells, no biggy. The 4 63 spells I have cost an average of 5000pp (CoT, SD, NI). OK, shield of Bracken was cheap (2k). The others, when they are even for sale in the Bazaar (less than 2 a week appear there), go for 12-15k+ (BoReplen, Pot9). I don't have that kind of cash. When I am able to play and can get a good XP camp, they generally generate 200-500kpp per hour. Yes, there ARE good plat camps. Hard as hell to get one, and no XP while you're farming. When I do get to play I want XP, so screw those camps.

Your comments on spell prices bear NO resemblance to what they actually go for on 7th. Our server has totally screwed up spell priices.

I think, basically, that you have been so much better equipped, better connected (raid/guild/flag-wise) and higher level/AA compared to the average player for so long, that you really have no idea what I'm talking about.

Tat

I think, basically, that you have been so much better equipped, better connected (raid/guild/flag-wise) and higher level/AA compared to the average player for so long, that you really have no idea what I'm talking about.


I don't know why people think I am so much better equipped or raiding on such a higher level. I'm not. My guild is a small one, and raids inconsistently.

The best comparison is to look at where I was when PoP was released a little over a year ago. Level 60, with all spells except the ancient spells. Only 29 AA. My best armor was a few pieces of the SS-quest armor. Nothing from Ssra, and I wasn't even flagged for VT, much less had anything from there. FT was around 4 or 5.

PoP comes out, and I work on getting to 65 first and foremost. The second day I spend about 8 hours working with a guild group to get the Mark of Execution (and I'm the first on the server to set foot in PoV and PoS). I do a lot of soloing in PoV, and I get 65 a week later. Second in my guild to do so, and not the first on the server by far.

With 65 under my belt, I focus on AAs. Instead of trying to buy spells, I work on building up a trading inventory (in fact, I forego memming spells in order to have them in stock for trading). Finally, a couple months later in December, I'm at 90-something AA when someone finally has CoT to trade for some other spells I have. I start my career as the Froginator at that point, and start raking in the AAs.

For the next two months, I focus on getting AA while the getting is good, smelling the inevitable nerf (it comes, but much later than I had thought). I ease off after reaching 400 AAs in March or so, but continue picking up a couple AAs per day in my off time.

So don't try to tell me that my position about getting to 65 first and foremost is based upon being "so much better equipped" or "so much better connected." I wish I were, but I'm not.

I may have more AA than most at this point, but I sure didn't a year ago. And that's the whole point. The reason I have maxxed out AAs now is I pushed to 65 as fast as I could, worked and refined my technique, and made the most of soloing XP opportunities when they were present. I didn't have a level 65 spell, or many 63-64 spells, for several months after being able to cast them, but when I did mem them, I was ready to use them immediately.

In other words, I didn't get to be where I am now by wallowing in the lower 60s out of the misguided impression that I'd get more AAs by not getting to 65.

Hindsight is 20/20, and my glasses are crystal clear.

"The second day I spend about 8 hours working with a guild group"

As I said, you're not describing the truely casual player. If I could be playing EQ in 8 hour stretches, I'd have many PoP flags and have access to the zones and opportunities to get the spec/rune drops and ornate.

Let's just leave it at that. I have nothing personal against you, and always am eager to hear your opinion on all matters EQ related. In this case, let's just agree to disagree. And I stand by my statement. If you are a truely "casual" player (few PoP flags, don't raid, can't play for long stretches), there's no great need to level without having your spells. Once you get some of the spells for a level, then ding. That's what I did, saved some plat, bought CoT and dinged 63.

Tat

When I was 63 my resists were significantly more numerous for even experience mobs, than they were at 65. Majority of the noticeable change was with CoT btw.

In your case where your server seems to have astronomical prices for spells that are fairly handy on other servers, I would say maybe at least go to 64. Hunt in BoT, Tactics, HoH, I know they are unlocked (if they arent feel free to non-flame correct me) and they are great places to get a few upgrades and some spectral spells.

I am on Scirocco's server (Drinal) and most of the people I know have 90% of their 63/4 level spells (spectral) and the spectral parchments usually get defaulted. If you feel "well it takes too long to win all your spells in pickup groups that only last 3 hours a night".... Of course they would if everyone was going in on them, but thats just the type of game it is, one needs to spend time to get what they want.

Your arguement for not leveling is so that you can get your spells first and also aa's before you level to 64 or 65. Well, one, your gonna spend more time if you plan on funding all your spells with plat than you would if you leveled to 64/5 and hunted in the unlocked zones, having chances at getting spells in the group as well as raising plat to buy the spells you are unable to get through groups.... plus faster aa's than you would get at 63.

Since Sony gave access to several tier 2/3 zones if you are of appropriate level there is really no reason for "not having access" to good zones to level.

If you think that Elemental zones are the only zones to experience in when your 65, then your a bit out of touch. Elemental are great experience, but the majority of level 65's dont experience there (due to not having access), they experience in BoT, HoH, and Tactics from my understanding.

Tactics is a flagged zone, no matter your level.

Increased levels truly suck for casters. Most of your hard-won spells become obsolete, and you're forced to endure god-knows-what to get the new ones. All of your hard-won focus items instantly become obsolete: I didn't do the 8th shawl or spend all that effort on some other items just to throw them away. Soloing usually becomes more difficult as lower level NPCs green out.

By comparison, for melees, extra levels just mean extra power and they can keep everything they have.

I hope they never increase the level cap but rather introduce new spells, items, and AA abilities as ways to improve player power.

#1) Levelling further won't open up any more zones for me, I'm already 63.

#2) I already hunt in the ones open to me, when I'm able. HoH I can enter and solo at will. BoT, well LFG for 30-45 mins sucks when you only have 2 hours to play. Spec rate sucks in both of those, though. Whenever people ask (even here on TDG) about specs, the answer always comes back to "SolRo Tower".

#3) I never mentioned elementals. The zones I had in mind were SolRo and Tactics (off the top of my head). To have 9+ zones still locked in PoP, once a new expansion comes out is ridiculous.

And if you'll check, that was my only point in the original post. If they're going to come out with a new raid expansion, then open up some more (I didn't say all) PoP zones with level restrictions. THEN I would level to 65 right away, there would be a reason. Otherwise, I'll wait until I get my spells, and then level.

Tat

Great, new spells that do 300-500 more damage, healing, or buffing. Upgrades to existing AAs or new ones that pretty much just augment hp, mana, defense, etc. New zones with unoriginal beefed up mobs. Man I can't wait.

I would much much rather see levels stay capped at 65
Then some new Tier of AA's added instead.

Perhaps something even Skill Tree evolved.

Say Advanced AAs: Prereqs: 100 AA
Mastery AAs: Prereqs: 250 AA

Path AA: Prereqs 250 AA, but can only take one "path" of AAs

You can even do things like the standard Mana Pool, HPs Increasers that you would get for new Levels.

Examples:

Advanced AAs:
+HPs
+Mana Pool
+Mana Regen

Mastery AAs:
Improved Nuking: Extra Damage or Extra Mana Preservation on all nukes
Improved Healing:

Path AAs:
Damage Path
Improved Nuking Mastery

Healing Path
Improved Healing Mastery

Now, in all cases what would be key would be the idea that with enough AAs, a member of a weaker subclass ((healer, tank, slower)) should be able to become equal to the basics of that parent class. However, a parent class with same AAs should still shine through as clearly superior.

Example: perhaps chanters get Debuffing Path that allows them a 75 Slow. But shaman likewise get a debuffing path that allows them a 80 slow. or a 75 Slow with Huge Innate Resist Modifier.

you can buy 61-62 spells for 50 pp each or less on many servers


On Karana they still sell for multiple thousands of k. Not that I care, I dont' buy spells or anything else at silly prices.

It really is simple... if you don't want to level... don't

More Levels means smaller more casual guilds get access to the content they helped pay for, even if it is a year or later after release, they will now have the manpower to tackle things like RZtW, mithaniel marr, and so on etc.

Old content is just that... old content, gone the way of the dodo bird, its their exclusively for people to farm or test out tactics.

New content is what keeps this game alive, if soe stopped producing content and challenges to keep the top end interested, they would disappear; sure some casuals might move up to replace them, but how soon till they disappear? There has always got to be a goal out there to keep everyone going. Even the most casual gamer has goals out there, be they as simple as elemental access, or a tak BP, or even plane of time.

Im also a big proponent for 36 man raids, nothing should require more then that, and that includes time, rathe, coirnav, xegony, etc. We can currently do all the above with 50, and a few more levels we will be able to bring it down to 30ish.

The only truely important balance key here, is to bring up the power of all classes, and make sure content doesnt a godawful # of clerics compared to everyone else.

Originally posted by Nanyea The Wayward
It really is simple... if you don't want to level... don't

More Levels means smaller more casual guilds get access to the content they helped pay for, even if it is a year or later after release, they will now have the manpower to tackle things like RZtW, mithaniel marr, and so on etc.

Old content is just that... old content, gone the way of the dodo bird, its their exclusively for people to farm or test out tactics.

New content is what keeps this game alive, if soe stopped producing content and challenges to keep the top end interested, they would disappear; sure some casuals might move up to replace them, but how soon till they disappear? There has always got to be a goal out there to keep everyone going. Even the most casual gamer has goals out there, be they as simple as elemental access, or a tak BP, or even plane of time.

Im also a big proponent for 36 man raids, nothing should require more then that, and that includes time, rathe, coirnav, xegony, etc. We can currently do all the above with 50, and a few more levels we will be able to bring it down to 30ish.

The only truely important balance key here, is to bring up the power of all classes, and make sure content doesnt a godawful # of clerics compared to everyone else.

Uummm. When did content ever be tuned to 30-36ish during its active phase? I don't remember too many, or hell any ntov/aow during velios, emp/seru/vt during luclin, etc.

I can see the arguement to 50s. But expecting new content to be doable on new contents terms with people in 30s is a bit much.

When did content ever be tuned to 30-36ish during its active phase? I don't remember too many, or hell any ntov/aow during velios, emp/seru/vt during luclin, etc.


You have to go back earlier than that. NTOV and AoW were already two full expansions in, and well after the raid level encounters had started ballooning in size.

It really is simple... if you don't want to level... don't

More Levels means smaller more casual guilds get access to the content they helped pay for, even if it is a year or later after release, they will now have the manpower to tackle things like RZtW, mithaniel marr, and so on etc.

Old content is just that... old content, gone the way of the dodo bird, its their exclusively for people to farm or test out tactics.

New content is what keeps this game alive, if soe stopped producing content and challenges to keep the top end interested, they would disappear; sure some casuals might move up to replace them, but how soon till they disappear? There has always got to be a goal out there to keep everyone going. Even the most casual gamer has goals out there, be they as simple as elemental access, or a tak BP, or even plane of time.

Im also a big proponent for 36 man raids, nothing should require more then that, and that includes time, rathe, coirnav, xegony, etc. We can currently do all the above with 50, and a few more levels we will be able to bring it down to 30ish.

The only truely important balance key here, is to bring up the power of all classes, and make sure content doesnt a godawful # of clerics compared to everyone else.



Yea and have every single person and their pet in quarm gear. You don't need more levels to make players happy. You need more raiding contents and more zones to level in. I doubt people will like more levels since it take them some work to get to 65. They thought they would never need to level again, well here again. Been 75, you can pretty much own the old worlds with a group or so, where is the fun in that? is not challenging anymore. Contents like AOW, Vindi, etc.. are already easy and 1 groupable. ( except AOW of course ) Add ten more level. you wil see people perm soloing them and whacking the enconmy of each server. You wil see twinks in EP gears etc.. Fire, water, air,earth become crown as heck and filled with newbies. Doubt SOE like that.

Fun is where the big 72 person raids are imo.

you wil see people perm soloing them and whacking the enconmy of each server.

With AP I'm sure that SOE is hoping it crashes anyway. They are looking for ways to have people sink their cash as it is. Why not have people farm BoC and make them 5k?

Disclaimer: This is not to say I agree or disagree or condone. This is to say that this may be one possible outcome.

I think on spells you just have to keep your eyes open Tat. I am on 7th, have never seen a rune drop but have managed to get all the spells I want at not totally unreasonable prices. The key for me was getting a bazaar bot going and selling all the crapola I previously dropped on merchants or gave away. BoR for example cost me 5k - I see the prices vary hugely even within a day as traders log on or off.

I am a casual player, but I would still say (as I say to all in my guild) levels > AA. Now in fairness, we do raid so the difference to resists, etc is important.

Originally posted by Scirocco
When did content ever be tuned to 30-36ish during its active phase? I don't remember too many, or hell any ntov/aow during velios, emp/seru/vt during luclin, etc.


You have to go back earlier than that. NTOV and AoW were already two full expansions in, and well after the raid level encounters had started ballooning in size.

So were 30-36 people doing Vox/Naggy in their era?

Originally posted by Teaamillie
With AP I'm sure that SOE is hoping it crashes anyway. They are looking for ways to have people sink their cash as it is. Why not have people farm BoC and make them 5k?

Disclaimer: This is not to say I agree or disagree or condone. This is to say that this may be one possible outcome.

Not quite sure what you mean here.

Player to Player Transactions are NOT Cash Sinks however.
If a BOC was 5k, and I bought one from you. No cash would be lost to the eq economy. I'd simply have 5k less, and you'd have 5k more to spend.

Cash Sinks = buying from Merchants.
I'm amazed actually that VI doesn't put more cash drains like horses in the game. Even stuff, like decent level gear buyable for obscene plat like 200k or so. Heck, just let people buy adventure
points. 500 to 1k PP per point would suck quite a bit of cash out of the market. 1492 Item = 74,600 to 149,200 PP. I'd lean to 1k personally.

Add ten more level. you wil see people perm soloing them and whacking the enconmy of each server. You wil see twinks in EP gears etc.. Fire, water, air,earth become crown as heck and filled with newbies. Doubt SOE like that.


Noliniel, your statement is like a broken record stuck in one spot. This complaint gets made every time there's an increase in levels. It doesn't "whack" the economy, it simply changes it. The old items that used to command top prices are simply replaced by different items. You already see twinks in EP gear, and with better gear out there, it won't matter. The EPs will become "old zones," and if the "newbies" don't fill them, no one will.

The game evolves.

On Karana, the mid level content is already perma soloed. It doesn't whack the economy though since Karana's economy was already whacked. It does keep anyone who can't solo or one group it from ever getting a chance at it though. Oh well. Other games are coming and EQ will fall by the wayside eventually.

So were 30-36 people doing Vox/Naggy in their era?

That would seem like the low end , but it was certianly a 30ish to 45ish range pre-kunark. Fear and Hate were also similar. Numbers started to go down when folks started to get planar gear, but I think the 36 number is not far from the original goal.

Interesting that the CoF still commands a 40k pricetag (On TP Anyway). I believe this is more a function of the lengthy spawn times on the limited creatures that drop them than any level limits)

Even with level limits Naggy is an easy 3-4 person "raid" mildly twinked. 3-4 person Naggy raids Were the reason for the level limits in the first place and now the only real purpouse is widespread soloing would take place by level 65s. (And frankly that would be a better use for them now , since they can go for weeks on end without dieing)

Originally posted by B_Delacroix
On Karana they still sell for multiple thousands of k. Not that I care, I dont' buy spells or anything else at silly prices.


*raises an eyebrow at this* Ethereal Parchment MQs average 50pp to 100pp on Karana now if you bother to ask for them. They typically rot in XP groups, i've watched at least a half dozen rot in the last two days alone. I've seen every single 61 or 62 druid spell for 100pp or less in the bazaar.


As for the other two issues, i'm against the idea of raising the level cap largely because they did it last time I reached "max level" too. *grin* (I dinged 60 the night before the PoP patch raised the cap to 65, then was out of game for quite a while before coming back to get 65) What i'd like to see is perhaps a new type of AAs, alternate alternate advancement or such. Adding five levels to the cap would start turning semi-trivial content right now laughable. (thinking specifically of Ssra, tier one PoP etc)

Finally, the leveling vs waiting to AA argument. People seem to underestimate how much of a difference being 65 makes when LFGing. Finding a group at 64 is far far more difficult than one level higher, even if you have several hundred AAs over the 65 toon.

Originally posted by Noliniel
Yea and have every single person and their pet in quarm gear. ..........You wil see twinks in EP gears etc.. Fire, water, air,earth become crown as heck and filled with newbies. Doubt SOE like that.

No, you wont, flags exist for a reason, not to mention the lvl 46 req for getting into ANY plane. You have to be in the planes for almost all of the item drops as they are probly 99% nodrop. The tailored stuff doesnt matter, because it has req lvl 46, rec 63 or so. This is where PoP wins, because any random gimp cannot simply go farm a spawn, etc, it must be worked for as a group. If elementals stay locked, then maybe the guilds who are just doing ntov today will be in elementals when AL, FOH and the like are doing the new high endiest of end zones. This is a GOOD thing because more casual players have a chance to see older high end content, because they have levels to compensate for lack of quality gear/skill, whichever the case (i am NOT NOT NOT saying casual players lack skill).

it also makes it fun for some high guilds to challenge themselves with older content and 1 to 2 groups. Im still trying to get some ppl to 2 group terris thule =). When new levels comes out, or just new REAL expansions (LoY as much as i liked it, and ldon, were Bull**** expansions) all the game does is shift, guilds all move up a rung, as do exp groups, soloers, etc.

This is a GOOD thing because more casual players have a chance to see older high end content, because they have levels to compensate for lack of quality gear/skill, whichever the case

As a member of a small casual guild, this is exactly how I see it. I will definitely 'grind' out he new levels if it gives us access to more content that we otherwise wouldn't see.

I don't think it's a good thing. Leveling to 75 would reduce the number of "XP" mobs to grind out AAs on. Will the new expansion give about 5-6 zones to xp in also? Not if it's a "raiding" expansion. Old zones will have to be upped. Mobs in PoP are roubly 62-63ish in the 2nd tier. At 75 even 70 the xp from these mobs is going to be very poor.

Racmoor

Leveling to 75 would reduce the number of "XP" mobs to grind out AAs on.

Good point! Now you got me thinking again....ouch

Originally posted by Racmoor
I don't think it's a good thing. Leveling to 75 would reduce the number of "XP" mobs to grind out AAs on. Will the new expansion give about 5-6 zones to xp in also? Not if it's a "raiding" expansion. Old zones will have to be upped. Mobs in PoP are roubly 62-63ish in the 2nd tier. At 75 even 70 the xp from these mobs is going to be very poor.

Racmoor

Even 70 would make a big hit.
There is a HUGE xp bonus for fighting white, yellow, red cons vs High Blues vs Mid/Low Blues

My level 61 Twink literally got 15% more XP per kill in Plane of Earth vs Level 61 to 63 mobs, then my Level 65 Character in the same zone.

Likewise, you notice another huge drop off if your fighting mobs more than 5 levels lower than you. At 65 there is a reason people do Golems/WL/Caves in POV over the Skeletons. The skeletons are significantly less XP because they are 58.-59.
Compared to 61-62 for golems. The skellys are not significantly easier either btw. But the bonus for hard blue xp is gone.

If its level 70, expect the POE to be drastically worse xp.
And more crowding for XP spots.

obviously there would be more exp spots in the new expansion. Id expect it to be much like pop whereas the best xp would be in the planes (new place) but you could still xp in old world zones decently. At lvl 70, the (now) red cons in the plane of fire would probly be blue, and only 2 lvls away. Heck maybe you could start exping in time with your new powers =P

Never been to PoFire nor am I likely to go. Don't have time to be in a guild raiding that much. Your expectations of SoE are a lot higher than mine. I don't think this release is going to be of the size of PoP. Does anyone really believe it will be? Honestly? After a release only 3 months ago? Nor do I really believe they're going to put 5-6 zones in there to just xp.

But you're saying to xp now I have to get to PoFire? Or I should be content getting xp off of blue/light blue mobs?

I'm NOT going to be bitter and say anything about this supposed "ubers" vs "casuals" and I certainly don't want to derail the conversation that route, but I'm sure you guys can understand the concern of casual players in this regard.

Racmoor

We're already seeing the new AA on Lucy. If they are adding 5-10 new levels, where is all the spell data for 5-10 levels worth of new spells? Seems to me this is just a rumor, and nothing more, unless the level cap will be raised in the fall 2004 expansion.

We're already seeing the new AA on Lucy. If they are adding 5-10 new levels, where is all the spell data for 5-10 levels worth of new spells? Seems to me this is just a rumor, and nothing more, unless the level cap will be raised in the fall 2004 expansion.

They know about Lucy and things only show up there when they are working to create a little Buzz, when they want to make some noise about new levels you will see them.

The absence of info on Lucy really tells us nothing.

They are more then capable of testing (well as well as they ever test anything) without the data popping up in the test server spell file or anywhere else in the test client for that matter. Beta client has never been the same as test client, they load data there early for one of two reasons: 1. Someone screws up or 2. They are letting out some information.

I didnt read the whole thread, if this is redundant I apologize for my short attention span =P

from page 1:
there's no point is levelling as a caster if you don't have your new spells.

Of course there is... the higher in level you are the bigger your mana pool, the More hp you have, and less resists on your spells you DO have.

Of course there is... the higher in level you are the bigger your mana pool, the More hp you have, and less resists on your spells you DO have.

Not very much though... Naked, at level 60 I had 1145 hp. At level 65 I have 1240 hp. A whopping 19 hp per level.

Manawise, for each level over 60 you get 38 mana (not including the 5 bonus mana if you have extra wisdom to take advantage of the raised cap.)

So for a caster, going from 60 to 65 you get all of 95 hp and 190 mana.

And decreased resists... While those are hard to quantify, in my informal testing I really noticed very little difference in resists on either xp mobs or raid mobs since the casting changes went in a while back.

Casters gain virtually nothing without their spells by levelling up.

-----------

The flip side is, of course, that pure melees dont even get all that... For say, a monk, your hp goes up a little more per level (30-ish iirc) and average damage per hit goes up by like 2. That's it.

Not very much though... Naked, at level 60 I had 1145 hp. At level 65 I have 1240 hp. A whopping 19 hp per level.

Hp's are awared on an amount per stamina basis in the same way mana is for our wis. So wearing your equipment with up to a max of 305sta, you are looking at a far greater difference.



And decreased resists... While those are hard to quantify, in my informal testing I really noticed very little difference in resists on either xp mobs or raid mobs since the casting changes went in a while back.

There is a significant change in resist rates of spells that are difficult to land. Our Swarming death DoT line probably wont make much of a difference due to its modifier. However something like Eci's for cold/attack debuffing will change significatly.

Theres also spell duration to take into account. Charming stalkers in PoN for eg, my pet dosnt break charm for the full duration 8/10 times at level 65, that was a lot different at level 60 and im using the same spell (Call of Karana). Roots last much longer and get resisted less often.

And perhaps the most important thing is, at level 65 your much more likely to get a pop or LDoN xp group.

Casters gain virtually nothing without their spells by levelling up.

Levels do play a part in resisting AE. Blue mobs are less likely to hit you (even nekkid). Not due to equipment mitigation but to level based avoidance. A level 65 with 10 defense skill (say PL'd) will avoid hits more often than a level 1 with 10 defense against a level 5 orc centurion.

Casters gain virtually nothing without their spells by levelling up.


Strongly disagree

while hitpt gains are minor... theres plenty other stuff

mana pool: you'll gain +6 mana per each stat point increase
(very significant when you can reach 355 int/wis)


as enchanter, I made 65 in Nightmare (of all places) with *one* vendor spell - Apathy.


being 65 makes you eligible for spell drops,
many raids only allow you to loot spells you can scribe



perhaps the most important thing is, at level 65 your much more likely to get a pop or LDoN xp group.


agreed! 65s get groups easier

I shudder at doing a level grind again.... but I'm sure if the level limit is raised, I'll end up adjusting the exp bar back to normal exp.

One benefit many of you are forgetting about reaching 65 is the aggro reduction around mobs. At 65, I can walk uninvis'd awfully darn close to mobs that would have otherwise aggro'd on me in a heartbeat at 61-64.

When the new expansion does come out, I would like to see:

-Mobs in PoP scaled to higher experience so the casual players can still gain AA exp.

-AA's that allow Druids to increase base AC

-Spells on merchants. Please, no more spell drops or turn ins. Casting classes have had the added setback of trying to gain spells along with equipment for far too long while Melee classes just worried about equipment.

And perhaps the most important thing is, at level 65 your much more likely to get a pop or LDoN xp group

Yes, they want you so you can cast your 61+ spells, not so you can tank adds with your druid.

as enchanter, I made 65 in Nightmare (of all places) with *one* vendor spell - Apathy.
being 65 makes you eligible for spell drops,
many raids only allow you to loot spells you can scribe

And I already said "without their spells"... you are quoting spells at me...

HP per sta is not affected significantly by your level. At level 65 I get +2 hp per stamina (over 255), or +3.333 per stamina (sub 255). At level 61, the gain is +3.150 per stamina (sub 255). That's a gain of +0.046 hit points per stamina per level over 60.

Mana per wis over 255 is like 3 mana/1 wis, at least it was according to magelo when I was playing with it a few weeks ago. You also assume that the person in question actually has the gear to go over the 255 cap. The ratio of mana/wis does increase as you go up in level, true. You can reasonably expect to gain about 265 mana by levelling from 60 to 65 and staying at 255 wisdom (+655 mana if you hit 285 wis, although I cant find a reliable post-255-stat mana calculator. The mana-per-stat changes at 255 and changes again at 305, but I cannot for the life of me remember exactly how much.) Some would argue that spending that xp in SCM is a better bang for the buck, depending on gear and such.

Any "significant change" in resist rates is usually anecdotal. I'd honestly like to see some parses done since the resist change, rather than "It seems like I get resisted less." You mention charming your pet... are you using the same charm spell, or the new one you get when you level? I've no doubt that even using the same charm spell at a higher level will *seem* like it lasts longer, if you are expecting it to. If you parse it, over a long period of time, I suspect that the actual difference is actually rather uninspiring.

The fact is that the primary reason to level past 60 is in order to actually use post-60 spells. If you dont have access to them (or if you dont actually get any spells like a pure melee), then there's not *much* point in levelling. I didnt say there's NO point, but one might be better off putting xp into some important AA's (like SCM, Run3, etc) before or during the long climb from 61-65.

Tia

Originally posted by Teaamillie
With AP I'm sure that SOE is hoping it crashes anyway. They are looking for ways to have people sink their cash as it is. Why not have people farm BoC and make them 5k?


They are looking for ways to remove plat from the economy. Having more loot in bazaar, just transfers plat from one player to another. Net effect... zero.

Sea!

I hope they raise the stat cap. As it is, .... bah!

Throw in another thousand AAs also. hehe... <---quote and start the flame. :P

Really... once you reach mid-pop, tons of people are nearing the end of where they can purchase almost all their useful AAs. I know of a bunch of guilds that's just broke into elementals or just about to now. Alot of them have 200-300AAs now. Remember we are over a year into PoP exp now. By feb, even the casuals will have a ton of AAs.

In luclin, it wasnt exactally common to see people with even the 48AA title. Pop exp made gaining AAs practially a joke. Next expansion, I'm expecting people will gain AAs at an even much higher rate.

Sea!

Shouldnt update the AA table and instead introduce Advanced AA's...and have the exp gain on those far slower...so maybe 10 AA = 1 AdvAA.

or just add a tonne of abilities...but i think they might run out of ideas.

Tils

Im also a big proponent for 36 man raids, nothing should require more then that, and that includes time, rathe, coirnav, xegony, etc.

I SOOOO disagree ... if raids were capped at 36, then it becomes a case of okies, half the guild gets to go to raid and earn dkp/merits/loot and the other half has to go find exp or something. Talk about dividing a guild. Who decides WHO gets to go? How does everone get a chance at upgrades? Etc etc etc .... if Sony's idea is to decimate the larger raid guilds, then yes, 36 man max encounters is THE way to go ... but if they are TRULY sincere about advancing the game experience for everyone, then stop toying with the idea of splitting raid guilds with stuff like 36 man encounters.

As for casual players, you wanted it, you got it, enjoy LDoN ... I get so frustrated when I hear about casual players whining and crying that they won't get to see Plane of Time (or insert whatever zone they got the hots for this week) ... yet they don't wanna put forth the time or effort to learn the strat and do the zone. If you a casual player fine, understand that as a casual, non dedicated to raiding player you will have certain limitations based on your chosen path of gameplay. If you cannot raid, that's the breaks.

But for the love of pete, stop getting all pissy because those if us who DO spend 8 or 10 hours in VT, or 6 hours a few nights a week in EP, or hours exping for forages and EP tradeskill drops get some progression, kewl gear and higher content. It's not like it's being handed to us on a silver platter, we put in the hours to earn the right to be in those zones and go through MANY CR on raids etc to be able to say hey, I'm flagged for .....

Different people, different abilities to play all = different rewards. Kinda like the Aid Grimel quest requirements ...
they mdae it so you HAD to be 220 in tradeskills just to get the NPC to talk to you for the quest. So, using the same cry arguement of a casual person, just because you a casual player does that mean the quest spec should drop to say 170 just because you don't have the time or desire to sit around and do like the rest of us and tradeskill til we cry?

Didn't think so .... now, on that note, do I agree that quests should involve no drop components from EP zones. NO! I TOTALLY disagree with that ... all EP components should be droppable and sellable so those who don't get EP access at least have a chance of doing the quest. Yeah, it's gonna cost you, but if you want it bad enough to not have to raid alot ....

Sorry to sound like a bitch, but I get so so SO tired of the *OMG it's not fair I'm a casual player and want Plane of Time too!* whine ....

You get out of the game what you put into the game, it's that simple ... less play = less reward ....

all EP components should be droppable and sellable so those who don't get EP access at least have a chance of doing the quest

Yes, please! But why stop at EP items? If an item for a quest drops from a 'locked' plane, make it droppable.

The closest expansion (GoD) just doesn't have enough zones to support more levels. It looks more like some sort of cross between LoY and LDoN than a Kunark/Velious/SoL/PoP expansion.