Long time lurker, 1st time poster here :) (or close to it)

Those who browse Lucy once in a while might have noticed the possible return of Ancient spells (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhistory.html?id=4974&source=Test).

This actually gave me an idea about the healing problem at the high end game... but first, my vision of the situation :
I think druid healing is, for the most part, about where it should be. We're not the best but we can heal well enough in any situation to be able to substitute for a cleric, with some effort.
However, HP inflation means that with 11k+ hp tank we're now suffering not from a double penalty over cleric CH (no crits and higher mana cost) but a triple one (those + less hps regained, which is really only a concern if the cleric can frequently land max heal, i.e. on time+ level tanks).

There would be one problem with an across the board upgrade to KR though (be it through a new spell or an upgrade of the existing one) : I believe (but feel free to prove me wrong, that's why I'm posting :D) that may be slightly overpowered and it would most likely be perceived that way by clerics.

That's where the possible return of Ancient spells comes into play : would others think it a good idea to push for our Ancient to be an upgraded KR ? Something along the lines of 6-7k max heal (pre AAs), would alleviate the problem, while not being overpowered since it would likely only be accessible to those running into the problem in the 1st place :)

I think I've rambled enough... any thoughts/comments would be welcome !

It is simple for me: no more ancient spells.

For the healing:

-The lower mana cost on the Karana's renewal (when a higger level spell isn't a upgrade)

-Passing the 22 mins to 15 mins before being to be able to reuse the spirit of the wild aaxp ablity, is only going up to part with the cleric and the beastlord ones (and putting it effect to the bard song box will be uber too).

-Be able to do a critical healing when I use one of our ich spell will be a fun eye candy and sometime usefull.

For now it what I see that we need. For the next expension as long that the healing equilibrum is maintened, I can live whit that.

Eridalafar

ancient spells seem the winner to me, since this problem is prevailent mostly in the high end game. Changing our iCH would offbalance all the casuals in BoT atm or wherever. I have never had any problem healing until i got into the elementals(sorta sol ro) and our tanks have 9k+ hps.

I think as far as the healing game goes, the wards are a neat idea for stable camping to alleviate the overall healing aspect.


I think Nature's Infusion is a decent idea that needs to be tweaked a little, and future spells like it are a good idea as well. The iCH type spells were nice at first, but the casting time for the healing end result seems to defeat the purpose in my opinion.

One of the things I believe druids like about their spells, AA, and focuses...is that they can somewhat customize their mana usage. This goes well for spells like NI, but not the iCH ones.

It would be great for healers to get something like an AA version of Fury of Magic mastery, but for healing. More crits would definitely help a little more for those higher hp tanks.

Throw in a small group heal that can be "customizable" as well, and that would probably let the clerics play their alts more :P

It's interesting to note a few thing about the upcoming expansion:

- No new large heals
- New fast heals
- Cast through Stun AA
- Healing Wards

There is a huge (http://thedruidsgrove.org/forums/showthread.php?t=5743&page=1&pp=15) discussion in Unkempt on the direction end-game healing is headed in the future EQ, and seems to me like change is coming with Gates of Discord. If so, I think it'll be a good thing.

If the end game has enough stunning for CH to become a detriment to a raid, then fast heals, HoT's, and the new healing wards will dominate. For me, removing the CH rot is an important step to adding excitement to the game.

If this is indeed the direction EQ is headed, then we don't need any large heal upgrades. In that context the new heal is probably a template (borrowed from NI) for a fast Druid heal.

Mind you, this is all theory (unless anyone has some l337 beta infoz).

with the new fast heals, Wards, and the new Heal Over Time that the clerics are getting I think us Druids will suffer with no effective heal over time spells or Group heal spells.

Our healing is centered on single target instant healing that is very mana expensive. This will lead us to being oom very fast in an environment that is very focused on the efficiency and speed of healing that the Heal Over Time spells give and the cleric's quickheals give.

Our mana expensive spells combined with the fact that they are all single target instant heals leads us to not being able to heal a whole group quickly enough to recover from nasty ae's or dot's.

In general, it looks like each class is getting three new spells. No more, no less. I want only ONE of those three spells to be used up on heals, because quite frankly, druids are overbalanced in favor of the healing side at the moment.

The other two are a fire nuke (which is good), and debuff/dot (which may be good, depending on what the final numbers look like). All in all, given the limitations of this expansion (3 spells, modest increases in power, nothing balance-changing), we make out pretty well. Especially when you add in our own healing ward AA.

As for group heals, SOE has been dead set against that for druids for some time. I don't see that changing any time soon. If it will take a group heal spell to make you happy, then you won't be happy.

Pity the poor clerics who get stuck with two new heal spells. It's like dripping superglue into their shackles....

As for group heals, SOE has been dead set against that for druids for some time.

Why? Why are we the only Priest class to not get group heals? Other than SOE being stubborn, what is the rationalization for this?

Why? Why are we the only Priest class to not get group heals? Other than SOE being stubborn, what is the rationalization for this?


Shaman's dont have group heals either, only 1 priest class has group heals and that is clerics.

Hmm

Neither druids nor shamans gets group heals actually.

So 2 of 3 priests don't have them.

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect some form of group heals soonish even if it's not with the GoD expansion.

Hmm

Neither druids nor shamans gets group heals actually.

So 2 of 3 priests don't have them.

I don't think it's unrealistic to expect some form of group heals soonish even if it's not with the GoD expansion.

Aye, but shaman can get around having them by having a Heal over Time.
Quiessence when spell hasted down to 3 seconds and boosted up to 1800+ heal takes the sting out of most AEs. Granted this seems like Natures Infusion in time/amount healed. But where Quiessence becomes viable is that its almost no agro ((casting 6 NIs per AE = death sooner or later)) and its only 200 mana ((so shaman don't oom doing this))

Shaman can make a good group healer in elementals/time.
Druids can not.

Right, my mistake. I was thinking of the Shaman's HoT.

Shaman can make a good group healer in elementals/time. Druids can not.

I guess this is more along the lines of what bothers me about the whole thing. Whether in elementals/time, or not. If I can only heal my "group" every 22 minutes without having party members die, or myself die from the aggro of trying to heal more than one of them quickly, then something is wrong.

druids have never been efficient at healing multiple people, nuff said

Druids have never been efficient at anything.

Our spells have a "druid factor" put into them to make then less efficient than their parent class or two, not to mention we dont even get the wide variety of skills that are out there, but we do pay for what we DO get very severely.

Shaman's dont have group heals either, only 1 priest class has group heals and that is clerics.

This is true, but why do Pallies get a group heal?

druids have never been efficient at healing multiple people, nuff said

No kidding, but that doesn't mean they shouldn't be.

Pallys get a group heal because they are hybrids of clerics. And grouphealing sorta became a part of their niche. I'd like to see us, and hell shaman too, get a so-so efficient group heal. Trying to heal my groupmates in a AE encounter really makes you feel like your efforts are damn futile.

Remember Sony's mantra! Druids cannot be useful! They are versatile! That is enough!

Besides, the clerics would go nuts if druids could actually, you know, heal.

Clerics:

One class to rule them all, One class to find them, One class to bring them all, and in the group, bind them.

Shaman HoT spells are great, but against high dps mobs they can get overwhelmed quickly. Druid heals are great, but as far as mana-efficiency over time, they're not so great.

Maybe druids and shaman should get together and share notes =/


I think the healing ward concept is a good idea to help alleviate druids as group healers in raids. If a raid is stationary, that will at least help somewhat.

LoL Feldaran.

Are you trying to imply that druids can't heal now?

Edit: The time when clerics would get somewhat cranky is most likely when druids heal enough practically and the clerics extra healing is just fluff. We are not there today and I don't think we are risking getting there in GoD either given the nature of the spells and AA being toyed with.

Chorlathist:

We have both shamans and druids healing groups exclusively with no help. It all depends on which class has some people not tied up in other duties.

I do not think that a druid is worse of for healing than a shaman in any case. The druid has a better healing capacity over all.

If I was to play a druid in the raiding game I wouldn't be too worried about my healing powers for sure. I would be on a bloody holy crusade to get some sort of deaggro or DA ability. Given the nature of druids deaths during multiple mob pulls I would go for a DA ability since the deaggro won't help when a druid is helping to spam heal and manages to get in the first aggro heal on a tank.

LoL Feldaran.

Are you trying to imply that druids can't heal now?

Edit: The time when clerics would get somewhat cranky is most likely when druids heal enough practically and the clerics extra healing is just fluff. We are not there today and I don't think we are risking getting there in GoD either given the nature of the spells and AA being toyed with.

Chorlathist:

We have both shamans and druids healing groups exclusively with no help. It all depends on which class has some people not tied up in other duties.

I do not think that a druid is worse of for healing than a shaman in any case. The druid has a better healing capacity over all.

If I was to play a druid in the raiding game I wouldn't be too worried about my healing powers for sure. I would be on a bloody holy crusade to get some sort of deaggro or DA ability. Given the nature of druids deaths during multiple mob pulls I would go for a DA ability since the deaggro won't help when a druid is helping to spam heal and manages to get in the first aggro heal on a tank.

Please share some specifics. This last part specifically. It's been said many many times on these boards. If you a druid as only source of ehaling for your group of 6, you literally pick people to sacrifice in the fight.

Take any of the PoF AEs. 1500-2000 every 30 seconds. Assume people have enough hps to survive one without healing. The 2nd + a riposote = low health agro, or direct low health agro from some low hp people. So its gotta be healed. 2.7 Seconds for my cast of NI, 2.5 Refresh. Check so i can get 6 NIs off in 31.2 so i can get a round off before the next AE.
With Elemental Boots, SCM, Alt spec my NI cost is 355 per. * 6 = 2010 Mana just to heal that AE. So how many more rounds you think I am going to be able to afford to pump out 2010 Mana? My MP is 6200. Say 4 rounds?
Thats 2 min 30 second fight. 8010-6200=1810 in 23 tics about 75 mana per tic. Barely doable. okay so conclusion if I (with some plane of time gear) am totally responsible for my group I can keep them alive for 2 min 30seconds vs Omni. ASSUMING that the 24 Nature Infusions didnt get my ass summoned and smushed.

Now, Im sure druids do keep their groups alive. But not without MGB heals in addition.

A shaman on the other hand, doesn't need MGBed heals to keep thiers alive.

As for the extra healing fluff.... so what? whatcha think happens 95%+ of time to the vaunted druid utility? its fluff.

Hmmm to be honest as a cleric I don't see the reasoning behind Druids not getting a Group heal and a lot of very good reasons why they should.

And for gods sake reduce the reuse time on SoTW. This cleric has much lub for MGB'd SoTW :heart:

You know what I would also love to see. One of the MGB'able HoTs out there SoTW, Paragon or EE/CE to have some sort of cure counters on them (not talking a lot here just a few counters per tick). Don't really care which class gets it, but it would make my life easier.

You know what I would also love to see. One of the MGB'able HoTs out there SoTW, Paragon or EE/CE to have some sort of cure counters on them (not talking a lot here just a few counters per tick). Don't really care which class gets it, but it would make my life easier.

It would certianly be nice to allow /tgb to work with radient cure so it can be MGB'd

I feel that we heal well enough as it is. While a group heal would be nice, most likely in the form of a heal over time, it really isnt needed. A druids role on raids is so versitile right now, my guild has no problem fielding 5 druids, each for specific roles. Knowing how to use your abilities to their fullest is the key, not complaining that we dont have X spell to do our job.

I have no problems keeping a group of casters alive while patch healing the main tank. Maybe its because our casters stay out AE range, or maybe its because they have good resists. But generally speaking, give me either a group of casters or melee and I have no problem keeping them alive through 2k aes and still have enough mana to try and get that killshot haha.