View Full Forums : Yantis Censorship on EQDruids


Exsyle
01-31-2004, 10:33 PM
I lurk a lot and post very little, but thought this was worth sharing. I looked through the forums and didn't see anything that looks like its been mentioned, so I hope I'm not duping the subject.

Jinex22 wrote an interesting article about Yantis, plat dupes and the economy on The Safehouse at:

http://pub146.ezboard.com/fthesafehouseloungegeneraldiscussion.showMessage?t opicID=29404.topic

He made the same post on Allakhazam at:

http://everquest.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=1&mid=1075435996761751677&num=0

I imagine that he's posted the same elsewhere; those are just the two that leaped out at me. They are both entitled, "Continuing destruction of the EQ economy".

It appears that he made the same post on EQDruids. I can't link the post itself because its been deleted by the board Admins, though its still currently on page 1 of the General EQ forum:

http://pub149.ezboard.com/feqdruids24038frm1

Same title, same author of what appears to be the same article which details how Yantis and crew operate.

I know it surprises no one that My Supersales is censoring the EQDruids boards, but geez, they didn't even try to hide the fact that they are doing so.

Exsyle Ashborne
Elder Storm Warden
Quellious

Sobe Silvertree
01-31-2004, 10:55 PM
Wouldn't be surprized, I also Censor Yantis Post.. I remove any link to his site that shows up here :p

Glarnor
01-31-2004, 11:09 PM
It appears that he made the same post on EQDruids. I can't link the post itself because its been deleted by the board Admins, though its still currently on page 1 of the General EQ forum:

I remember reading that one. It got moved to Rant & Raves, and as you point out, it's been deleted. It was the same thing as on the Safehouse.

Tiane
02-01-2004, 05:21 AM
Crossposting across multiple forums, no matter the topic, sucks and is a fair target for moderation, as it is basically spam and/or an attempt to stir up Drama. I doubt that Yantis personally had anything to do with the topic's move or deletion (although it's entirely possible.)

I dislike any censorship personally, but I can understand why some mods on other boards, particularly ones that must be sick of the complaining and whining on that particular topic, might find it more prudent to move or delete such a spammed and crossposted thread.

Arienne
02-01-2004, 10:13 AM
/shrug
If *I* owned a site and didn't like something posted, I'd censor it, too. I don't think many wouldn't. Right of ownership. And how presumptious of someone to post against the owner of the site and think it would stay. There are plenty of sites he doesn't own that would accept the posts readily.

Owning the local media is more powerful than owning the local bank. He and his friends own both.

Callahad
02-01-2004, 10:15 AM
Well, I just looked at it. THe *really* sad thing is it's been tagged as moved but was actually deleted. Not consolidated. Not locked because it didnt warrant any replies. It was purely and simply deleted, under the false pretense of a move.

That's censorship at its best for ya. When you aren't even being upfront about it...

Callahad

Panamah
02-01-2004, 12:14 PM
LOL! I don't suppose Yantis owning the board now has anything to do with it. /mirth on

I don't fault moderators for censorship. It's their board, they can do with it what they please. But it is humorous anyway.

Aidon
02-01-2004, 12:24 PM
This is what happens when Yantis buys a board ;P

casualeq11
02-01-2004, 06:03 PM
I believe that same post was on SOE The newbie zone boards and got deleted. Not locked but deleted.

BTW I think the best idea I have seen for getting plat out of the economy is to delete all plat off cancelled accounts. Most of the plat IGE has is on cancelled accounts. Or limit plat on cancelled accounts to like 10k. This would not hurt 95% of the average players who cancel for legitimate reasons.
This should be done by SOE without warning and kept in force.

Tiane
02-01-2004, 06:10 PM
It was purely and simply deleted, under the false pretense of a move.


Something to note about EZBoard (and earlier versions of vb and phpbb), if you move a topic and leave a shadow, and then delete that topic, the shadow stays behind. It's also nearly impossible to delete the shadow. So dont assume it's some nefarious censorship plot... it's just a bug with the software.

Panamah
02-01-2004, 08:30 PM
BTW I think the best idea I have seen for getting plat out of the economy is to delete all plat off cancelled accounts. Most of the plat IGE has is on cancelled accounts. Or limit plat on cancelled accounts to like 10k. This would not hurt 95% of the average players who cancel for legitimate reasons.
This should be done by SOE without warning and kept in force.


What's the assumption? That they only store plat on cancelled accounts? Why would they do that? I be confused.

Islington
02-01-2004, 09:45 PM
What's the assumption? That they only store plat on cancelled accounts? Why would they do that? I be confused.
Not too long ago Ubisoft was giving away free account keys. 1 month absolutely free but you didn't get any expansions. So a lot of the exploiters took advantage of this offer and got a legion of free accounts, dumped their plat on these characters and then let the free account go inactive. When they needed the plat, they'd pay the money and reactive and then transfer the millions of plat around.

The exploiters have hordes of these accounts to protect themselves against bannings. They don't have to pay for the account and can spread their platinum around. To them, it's simply a matter of not putting all of their eggs in one basked (or more accurately all of their plat on one easily banned character).

It's actually not a bad idea to delete the plat off of inactive accounts if SOE did it right. It would get rid of a lot of duped plat. Not all of it but a lot of it.

casualeq11
02-01-2004, 10:16 PM
Exactly Islington.

I would bet IGE has at least a few hundred cancelled accounts with the plat on them. Look at the amount of plat that IGE supposedly had (I saw one post that claimed billions but I dont know).

Figure 40+ servers and I would estimate 20-40 million plat per server. 800 million plat is LOT of plat to store (I guess billion isnt too far out of the question). Keeping all that on a few accounts would tend to raise some eyebrows. I know that some accounts have over 10 million plat but those are usually traceable to large guilds. It is far easier to spread it around to avoid losing it. Thus the need for hundreds of accounts. IGE isnt going to pay monthly fees on those accounts. Thus if you wipe out the plat on cancelled accounts you wipe out most of their inventory (especially if no notice is give beforehand).

In addition, if anyone cancels their account then all plat should be stripped from that account. This will hurt some folks who have say financial problems, etc. but I doubt it would affect more than 0.5% of the legitimate player population. This would also hit IGE in another way becuase the folks who sell their accounts to IGE wouldnt be able to do so with any cash on the accounts unless IGE keeps up the monthly fees on the account.

In short this would be EXTREMELY unpopular with IGE and in the long run wind up costing them tons of money in the following areas.

1. Account cost upkeep will go through the roof as they have to keep more accounts active.

2. Plat stored on cancelled accounts will be gone. This means that plat they bought will be gone. In essence they paid for plat and wind up getting nothing in return.

3. Folks who sell their accounts to IGE will have to be kept active or else all plat will have to be spent on something (ie equipment (which tends to lose value over time) or some high cost vendor item (ie gems) to keep at least some plat on the account - this would take money out of the economy as well). Accounts probably wouldnt be worth as much to IGE either.

4. Plat prices (buying from IGE) would skyrocket again which would cause fewer people to buy plat from them.

IGE's may try to sue SOE due to the money they lost with the plat wipe on cancelled accounts but it would be fun to watch since SOE reserves the right to pretty much do anything they want in the game.

BTW there are still exploits in the game that IGE folks use and I am sure that some tradeskill exploits are still there as well.

Fyyr Lu'Storm
02-01-2004, 10:50 PM
They would just find some vendor item to store the plat with, and charge the difference.

I think wiping plat is a stupid idea.

1) Imagine if your CC is expired say 1 04 and they do not have the new expiration date for your Feb service, you loose all your plat.
2) If you use check card, and are overdrawn
3) I know several people, myself included, who have times where they don't play and don't pay, only to come back.
4) If you use game card, and time runs out.

Panamah
02-01-2004, 11:10 PM
I see, thanks for the explanation.

I took a capture of one of those inline ads from either Yantis or IGE: http://nmcs.com/spawnweek/images/billionsofplat.jpg I don't remember where this linked to, it was either mysupersales.com or IGE.com.

Gosh, if they delete plat I'll come back to the game very poor! I think my level 1 sales mule has most of my money. Probably about 50k or so. But WTH, I don't think I'll be going back anyway. Maybe it is time to find a friend to give it all to.

They would just find some vendor item to store the plat with, and charge the difference.


I don't think that would work because vendor purchased items usually sell back for a very small fraction of what you pay for them.

casualeq11
02-01-2004, 11:50 PM
Fyrr

It would hurt some legitimate players to be sure. Perhaps letting folks keep a certain amount of plat based on highest lvl of char on the account (maybe 1k per lvl). This wouldnt totally impoverise legitimate players and would still have the desired effect. Which would be removing MILLIONS (if not billions) of plat out of the game.

As far as hurting legitimate players. How much are the plat sellers hurting the legitimate players now? Chances are many more legitimate players are hurt now by IGE than this change would affect. Like most I spend time and effort getting the plat I have ( have played for almost 5 years and only within the past 6 months have saved more than 100K at any one time). Folks were making more in 2 days on a macro mule than I currently have. Am I jealous? no. But at the same time I want to be able to buy something decent with the plat I have. Ornate prices on my server had doubled in the last few months and no they still arent going down.

Tiane
02-02-2004, 12:01 AM
Punishing ANY legitimate players in order to POSSIBLY affect a company that does business which may or may not actually affect anything in game is stupid, plain and simple.

Fyyr Lu'Storm
02-02-2004, 12:17 AM
"I don't think that would work..."

I don't either, but I thought most gems are pretty close in buy and sell prices. In any regard water flows downhill, and if these people are cagey enough to find the dupe exploits etc, then I would not put it past them to find some way around it.

Hitting them hard would not even have to be even close to that drastic, SOE buys plat, items, or pc, bans character. Simple. It would take maintenence, of course, and a little money. But if I were in that business, that would scare the **** out of me.

SOE owns the rights to all the stuff, they could charge back their accounts(or however) and not really have to pay for any of it. What are they going to do about it, sue SOE?

Hell, SOE could even sting backwards, they could put junk up for sale. Ban the buyer and keep his or her cash. /shrug. That would take a big bite the business, as soon as people realized that they could lose real money like that. The buyer would really have zero recourse, now wouldn't they?

So if SOE really wanted to stop it, it would be easy and cheap. And since they could solve the problem, and choose not to, one can only surmise that SOE likes it the way it is.

Scirocco
02-02-2004, 01:13 AM
SOE owns the rights to all the stuff, they could charge back their accounts(or however) and not really have to pay for any of it. What are they going to do about it, sue SOE?


They could. For fraud, breach of contract, and violations of various state consumer protection acts, more than likely. And if SOE did it as part of a plan to get after multiple accounts, I'd add a count under RICO as well.

Dotnya
02-02-2004, 01:45 AM
Maybe it just me... I think part 9 in the Eula pretty much covers all this as well as the following parts.. I know most people dont even read the Eula.. but i did cause i was bored

Fyyr Lu'Storm
02-02-2004, 01:51 AM
"They could."
I know they could, but would they and if so would they win?

Does SOE own the stuff or not?

I don't owe anybody, but the government, for stuff I already own.

If you tried to sell me my boat, and I kept the boat and the money, what are you going to do? Sue me for breach of contract or come and poke holes in my boat in the middle of the night(not you, I know you would sue).

Tiane
02-02-2004, 01:52 AM
Yes, but you cant waive your legal rights in a Eula.

Dotnya
02-02-2004, 02:36 AM
well that depends how ya veiw it... kinda like how that patch of lawn in on the other side of the side walk is yours, then again its not even tho you maintain it.. but it's govement property. Every possible arguement that could be used is covered in the Eula. it's not ownership.. you are basically renting a certain amount of space on SOE's servers try and get past that one in court. you'll lose. No where does it ever say it is your property.

Fyyr Lu'Storm
02-02-2004, 02:49 AM
Ok, I am trying to figure out what you guys are saying.

Scenario 1
I have license agreement for the use of a product.
I violate that license by trying to sell a representative of the company, that I have that agreement with, the product back to them.
Which legal rights do I have, that are being waived?

Scenario 2
I do not have an existing account.
I broker to buy an account, a character(s).
I violate the EULA the moment I log on.
The account is banned.
And the money is lost(Well SOE has it). Just like if I buy an unscrambled cable converter box(chip, card, or whatever), and it does not work or the cable company scrambles the signals after I purchase it.

If I am the company, at best I have banned the offending account and have the money. Net sum zero I have to give the money back, if sued(or do not keep the money) and banned offending account. Or worst case, pay 3 times the amount as damages, if RICO is waged successfully against me and banned offending account.

What pieces do you guys see, that I am missing?

Ndainye
02-02-2004, 03:14 AM
It's not really worth Sony's time or money to go after the little brokers, the one time sellers, buyers ect.. and IGE is based out of the Orient so Sony most likely won't go after them.

When reports of gold and account sales first hit at the begining of UO, Origins reaction was wow cool! The company got a kick outa the fact that pixilated gold was a tradeable commodity and UO to this day (I believe) still has a fairly open policy on account/gold sales. The only reason why Sony takes a harder line on sales is that they don't want to be involved in any legal hassles that could occur over a scam, so they have a EULA that says trading is illegal and they have a policy with support that says they won't help you if you trade, but other than going after Ebay earlier on they haven't done much at all to close down account or plat trading. The Ebay thing is more to me a broad gesture to show that the company is serious about the Eula and Sony pulls enough clout to get away with it, companies like Mythic that have tried don't. Early on in DAoC Mythic made a similar gesture going after an account brokerage dealer but I never heard what happened with that however there is a wide Ebay volume of account and plat sales that continues.

As far as the game companies are concerned an account that is traded is an active account they don't want to shut that down they just don't want to be involved in it. Plat sales is a little different but still it's similar the sales of Plat have a minimal effect on the games economy. As long as items are tradeable they will be traded what difference does it make if a level 65 character sells an item to a level 10 character for real life money versus handing it off for free to that level 10 character because they are a real life friend?

Dotnya
02-02-2004, 06:42 AM
/agree Ndainye
then again to further stir things up. Buying and selling of plat, gear or what not, outside of food and drink is for twinks or alts. No need for plat in the game unless your lazy player. Everything you could possibly want is no-drop. Camp it, Raid it, Quest it(despise non-tradeskill oriented MQ sells{only reason say tradeskill oriented is the payment was for his skills not the actual quest IE soltice earrings} camping quest mobs for selling IMHO BULL@#*&!!), NONE have respect for an eBay player hence I dang sure never heard it used as a compliment.
My interpretation of the whole griping about "inflation" is just a player saying "awwww damn I gotta be less lazy now make more plat to TWINK my alt!!". If they spent as much time making allies in game, as they spent in loooonnngggggg drawn out posts(about 90% of the crap in simular posts)they could of resolved in game or camped or been attendance on a raid{only reason this is long is speaking of raid stragglers taking way to long}. Most common Item mentioned Ornate... have not bought one yet.. if you are wanting it and actually can wear it lvl 55 I am pretty sure you could get it if you wanted it <directed to MAINS> especially since they opened zones (which I hated might as well open VT or or even more so VP who the @%$# goes there anymore). Soo, if you are an alt, that means you have a main that already has ornate orrrr BETTER meaning you are too LAZY to go camp the crap for yourself. So am against buying and selling? HECK NO. I profit from it, so that makes me a Hypocrite.. yes I know cause I am tooo LAZY to kill 500000000 HG's to earn the plat to buy a 100k mount and (cause mah dice are crap) so I sell stuff thats easier for me to sell and preys on other peoples even more lazy style of play, whether you pick up an extra shift at work to buy ebayed, so financially set you have money out the --- with nothing better to spend it on, or solicit youself on the street corner. That is the base of capitalism what you are willing to sell yourself for(no I am not a streetwalker and not a play on previous) to get what you want. It's a form of control works well for the populations of the world, EQ did not have this in it when it started, it was your freedom and escape from real life.. but some people are not ready to be unplugged *heheh* started in Gfay, and it was small,few people complained, then EC tunnel, some people complained, but wanted more of what they were used to so voices we raised up to the gods<<SOE>>and extra channels were born, as many diffrent channels of advertisement and demands. the now mobs again were unsatified and gave a rumble to te gods<<SOE>> and they gave the BAZAAR now a whole zone dedicated to this one purpose. There was great rejoice, but then it was not all that was wanted, the now masses upon masses sent out a great roar to the gods<<SOE>>. Now you can go into Bazaar and find almost anything you want and even better be your own merchant while you slumber, work, whatever and the the MASSES were again Rejoiceful.. there were a few born inside who could see things and makes changes to this MATRIX as they saw fit.. (platsellers,macros,whatever) This is the world that (99% of the people complaining) has been pulled over there own eyes. The Matrix has you...
and yes I am mental and bounce all over the place but I swear there is a point... Captilism did not exist here the players brought it. Inflation was never an issue even to be forseen when EQ was launched. The people that wanted it made it happen. You still even now have a choice whether you participate in it or not. So to complain about Inflation... thats part of the game NOW. BUUuuut not THE GAME. You walk into the bazaar or /join auction you just asked to play in another game. So dont ask to play then bitch about the rules. Its voluntary you subject yourself to this torture. Dont hate the players, Hate the game. They did not ask you to come remember that next time you all post complaining about INFLATION.
thats my 2cp.. man my time is cheap =P

casualeq11
02-02-2004, 11:23 AM
"Punishing ANY legitimate players in order to POSSIBLY affect a company that does business which may or may not actually affect anything in game is stupid, plain and simple."

Honest players are getting hurt now by the prices in the bazaar. Honest players are having to pay, at an estimate, 10%-25% more for items. That means their plat is worth 10-25% less due to IGE and their plat duping/macroing.

As I stated the hurt to honest players can be mitigated. IE Players keep 1k plat per lvl for the highest lvl character of the account. The vast majority of players are probably lvl 65 and dont have 65k in their accounts (please I know a lot of us do - I personally have over 300k). But again, it is a one time wipe with folks not knowing it is coming. After that the affect on honest players would be MINISCULE.

Out of 400-500k players how many have a credit card lapse? How many stop paying for a month and then pick it back up? 100 a month? Say 500 a month. That equates to 1/10 of ONE PERCENT. And of those 500 most would know they would have a break and minimize it so they wouldnt be affected by it (Ie not having over 65k on their character when they cancelled their account).

Now look at the short and long term affect on the economy this move would have. BILLIONS of plat would be destroyed. That plat that you have in your account would be worth much more as a result. Prices in the bazaar would start dropping back to normal levels because of the fact that people wont have ready access to a million plat every time they pull out their credit card.

But the thing is SOE DOESNT want to stop IGE. If they did you would have seen more action than the hear no evil , see no evil, say no evil they have done so far. Post a thread on ways to hurt IGE/stop plat selling or duping on the SOE boards. I bet it will get locked or deleted within 2 days.

Panamah
02-02-2004, 11:34 AM
SOE hurts honest players all the time in order to stop exploits and cheating. It would be nothing new. It's like when the teacher gives the entire class extra homework because of a few cutting up. Not fair, but it is life.

Besides, they could give a small grace period so if you let your card expire or something you could have a couple weeks to settle your account.

No need for plat in the game unless your lazy player. Everything you could possibly want is no-drop. Camp it, Raid it, Quest it(despise non-tradeskill oriented MQ sells{only reason say tradeskill oriented is the payment was for his skills not the actual quest IE soltice earrings} camping quest mobs for selling IMHO BULL@#*&!!), NONE have respect for an eBay player hence I dang sure never heard it used as a compliment.


Lazy player? Well thanks. How about time restricted players or ones with the desire to do something other than camp a piece of armor? Oh wait, they must be lazy. I bought several pieces of ornate armor for my main. I wasn't a raider, so that option was out.

The bazaar should be a fun, dynamic portion of the game. Those who like playing in the market have a great time buying low, selling high and making money that way. I enjoy selling the fruits of my labors. But according to you, no one should ever buy anything except twinks. Therefore a very fun and enjoyable portion of the game should cease to exist...

I did buy a lot of things for my main. But... I must have been lazy.

Wyte
02-02-2004, 01:49 PM
Plat stored on cancelled accounts will be gone.No thank you. I cancel my account every time I renew the subscription.
I want to know when my cycle is up
I want the chance to take a spontaneous break without having to pay a bill
I hate the 'Columbia House' style of making money: "Don't do anything and we'll automatically send you stuff and bill you for it".

But that's just me.

Scirocco
02-02-2004, 02:41 PM
Heh...I see lots of "go get 'em" attitudes in this thread. Including the recommendation to commit credit card fraud. And I'd bet that folks who do this somehow think it is the fault of lawyers that disputes end up in court.

All I have to say is that it is people like this that enable people like me (i.e., litigators) to make a living....:)

Aidon
02-02-2004, 03:06 PM
Scir, pretty much sums it up :D

I'd just like to add this tidbit, the EULA, any EULA, is not an iron-clad protection for the company. Especially in states which do not permit a company to force a consumer to "sign away their rights" via waivers, liscence agreements, etc.

For instance: Most EULA's have a clause that says, in effect, "If our software causes your computer to self-destruct, we're not responsible". Well...in fact, they are still responsible, if it was indeed the fault of their software and they knew it was a possibility.

Ok, I'm done taking this thread off on a tangent that has nothing to do with the original post =D

Serenya
02-02-2004, 05:10 PM
Deleting all plat on cancelled accounts would be a remarkably poor business decision, and won’t happen. SOE wants people to come back. They regularly give a free 2 week live period to lure ex-players back. Most long-time players long ago learned that, generally speaking, items depreciate and plat doesn’t. So, if you’re canceling, but think you might return, you would be well served by selling off the bulk of your gear and saving the plat to regear 6 months to a year later. Now, imagine you did so, and a year later took SOE up on that ‘come back and see us’ offer, and discovered when you did that all your plat had been deleted. Think you’d actually renew? I don’t think so. I also don’t think you’d be playing any other SOE games after that discovery.

Fyyr Lu'Storm
02-02-2004, 05:50 PM
Nothing new, they don't call it "The World's Oldest Profession" for nothing.


/shrug

Islington
02-02-2004, 08:01 PM
If SOE was going to go the route of deleting plat off of cancelled accounts, they could easily set some boundries to work with. For example, delete the plat on any account which has a combined level of 10 or less and has plat in excess of 100k. The exploiters didn't bother to level these characters. They simply created them and dumped plat on them. Or created them and used them as a macro-bot.

Anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that if SOE was going to go this route, they could do it in such a way that it would have a negligable effect on "real" people and "real" accounts.

Fyyr Lu'Storm
02-02-2004, 08:09 PM
I am real and my account is real.

Losing my plat because I am going back to school is not negligible.

Islington
02-02-2004, 09:07 PM
I am real and my account is real.

Losing my plat because I am going back to school is not negligible.
Why the heck would you lose you plat? The query that SOE runs would see that your account has a level 65 character and / or more than 10 days /played. When it came time to delete the plat, your account would be skipped as it didn't meet the criterea for deletion.

Did you read my whole post or just the last couple of lines? Or did you simply not understand what I was saying? I'm not asking this out of sarcasm or malice. I simply thought that I explained why an account such as yours would not have been targetted for plat deletion.

Fyyr Lu'Storm
02-02-2004, 09:18 PM
"Or did you simply not understand what I was saying?"

You are not going to sell me on the idea of plat deletion of any boundary permutation.

Islington
02-02-2004, 09:30 PM
"You are not going to sell me on the idea of plat deletion of any boundary permutation.
That's fine and you're welcome to your own opinion. I just wish you had stated your original reply as such instead of your cryptic comments that left me confused and scratching my head over. Your original reply seemed to completely miss the point that I was trying to make which is that SOE could delete a large chunk of the exploited / dupped plat if they wanted to and have no effect on legitimate players (past or present). All it would take is some simple queries to flag accounts that are holding this illegally obtained platinum.

Tiane
02-02-2004, 10:47 PM
Honest players are getting hurt now by the prices in the bazaar. Honest players are having to pay, at an estimate, 10%-25% more for items. That means their plat is worth 10-25% less due to IGE and their plat duping/macroing.

Prove it. I've yet to see any definitive example that prices inflated or deflated solely because of real duping or macroing. Yes, the hysteria caused by the recent plat flap caused prices to fluctuate. But it was all perception. Prices on my server are basically back to normal and didnt really change all that much anyway (is a launch server though so it's economy is ancient and huge.)

Everyone says "omg Supersales and IGE and ebayers hurt the in-game economy" yet there is no real proof that this is the case. You can make up an example demonstrating that they do, and I can make one up that demonstrates they dont. The reality of the situation is that on the majority of servers, the economy is huge and despite what many of you perceive as "huge" amounts of platinum, arent really. If Yantis wanted to dump 10 million of plat on Xegony, it'd be hard to notice.

Duping is, of course, a different story, and I"m all for the mass bannings they did. That can have an effect. But buying and selling is just redistribution of wealth that was already in the system. It doesnt *cause* inflation... the whole EQ system is inflationary because there arent enough platinum sinks. Inflation is inevitable. 1 plat that you earned yesterday simply *is not* worth as much today, regardless of Yantis or rich friends or anything else under the players control.

Bottom line, obviously Sony pretty much feels the same way. There's little they can do and even less that they actually have done. Saying someone is "hurt" by someone else buying plat for RL cash is just as specious as the numbers the RIAA spews out about "lost CD sales due to MP3 piracy" which are based on nothing but masses of assumptions and wishful thinking. Some things just happen because they are inherent in the system they happen in. Release a year of crappy music, and sales will slow. Create a closed economy, and there will be inflation. So long as actual duping is prevented and people who do it banned (and the counterfeit plat destroyed) then it's still a closed system, and honestly, I'd be mightily surprised if someone at Sony doesnt somehow get a very quiet cut from the proceeds.

casualeq11
02-03-2004, 03:38 AM
Tiane

You dont ask for much hehhe.

Well as far as proving it definitively it cant be done. The proof is pretty much in the perception of the character.

You say you are all for the mass bannings. But look at who got banned.

It wasnt lvl 65s. It was lvl 1s. Hundreds of characters deleted. Dozens of accounts banned. That was the rallying cry for SOE after the patch. THey deleted 100s of lvl 1s who were macroing. THe accounts that got banned were free ones where folks didnt even pay for the software.
Name 5 players that you know who got banned from this. I know I dont know of ANY and neither does anyone in my guild and we are one of the 4 laragest guilds on the server.


Bottom line is .

SOE doesnt want to stop IGE. They make money off of them. They will put on a show of taking action but when push comes to shove nothing happens.

So the whole discussion is probably moot anyway.

Vowelumos
02-03-2004, 10:37 AM
A lot of things are causing prices to go up in the bazaar. Every few months a new quest is added that takes a once nearly worthless item and makes it a quest item that drives the price of similar (but still worthless) items up.

Prices on Kunark/Velious even Luclin items are going up because of scarcity. No one goes there anymore, server populations are not declining significantly and items tend to get filed away on alts or canceled accounts (Most people that cancel do not give everythign away :))

Plat dup bugs also cause prices to go up, no disputing that. However the price of decent items that are still regularly farmed has continued to decrease (Droga items, ldon items etc. ). Even the price of Ornate armor is dropping to were less desirable pieces(Hats/Boots) are well under 3k now. In a lot of cases this makes them a good value. 3 months ago ornate leather tunics were selling for 140K+ and we have seen them down around 105 or so and dropping recently.


Things like fungi go up, because (well at least on Tholuxe) no one is camping there any more, at all. The king used to have a life span shorter than Fippy Darkpaw and now it is longer than one of those flying Sphinxes in rathe mountains. I could list at least 10 of them that have gone out of the economy because they are on unplayed alts or retired accounts (And I do not know that many people).

Mossrunner
02-03-2004, 03:06 PM
Get rid of the plat on cancelled accounts. Get rid of the characters for that matter. Does it say somewhere that I can cancel my account and expect SOE to maintain my files and data on thier servers free of charge? If so, pardon my post.

If I cancelled my account and 6 months later fired it back up to find everything intact, I would be most pleasantly surprised. I can see why SOE does keep the accounts around and complete, since a lot of people do quit for a long period and then come back. They might not return if they had to start fresh.

Back to the point. Make it some reasonable period, even. Say 30 days to get your credit cards in order or whatever, then the account is pffft. If you really wanted to take a year off and start playing again, it'd cost you what, $60? Thats a weekends worth of beer. :alc:

Or, SOE can keep the account around (for free!) and just get rid of the plat. If you want to quit and keep the money, to have the best of both worlds, you can keep up your payments. But, really, if I am not paying for something, I don't expect to have it. If I canceled my phone, they wouldn't save my number for me just incase I might switch back to thier company again in the future.

Vowelumos
02-03-2004, 05:16 PM
SoE says they will maintain data for 90 days as an official policy. As a reality and intelligent business decision (since it costs pennies a month to store the data) they have stated they have never deleted any character information. (Outside of bannings etc, I am sure).

Deleting character data (Any character data) in EQ (Character records are fixed and very small in EQ) would be a horrible idea from their standpoint. It would release the temptation for someone to come back and try again.

I went back and played Anarchy Online for a couple months after my characters sat in active for over a year (probally a lot over a year :)) Just to play around see what changed. They made their 25 bucks and I would have never even considered doing it if I thought I would be starting from scratch.

Panamah
02-05-2004, 10:44 AM
Ok, for those of you who think SOE doesn't care about Yantis/IGE:

Smed, what is your position on the Yantis/IGE issue?

Smed: We have made our position very clear we don't endorse the idea of selling items or characters it's a violation of the EULA and more importantly it's not in keeping with the Spirit of EverQuest. We are looking into this further and but don't' expect us to go this way with EverQuest, and no , we do NOT condone it.

This is from the Gates of Discord developers chat.
http://eq.crgaming.com/viewarticle.asp?Article=5313

Vowelumos
02-05-2004, 10:48 AM
Yeah I thought that was an interesting way to put it. I have always believed they cared, just not sure of their will to do anything about it. I am still not clear .

Scirocco
02-05-2004, 11:54 AM
Ok, for those of you who think SOE doesn't care about Yantis/IGE:


Panamah, Panamah, Panamah.....how long ago did you fall off the turnip truck?

You know better. SOE has made that same statement before. Several times over the years, in fact. What did you expect them to say: "We love Yantis and IGE and think what they do is great!"?

Their statement in that chat means just as much as all of their previous statements. That and $1.53 will get you a tall coffee at Starbucks...

Panamah
02-05-2004, 12:22 PM
I'm still on the turnip truck. I love turnips! /em munches away happily

But really, none of us have any idea what, if anything, SOE is doing or intends to do, if anything, about IGE/Yantis. If they're doing anything, it might be rather hush-hush. If they were to do some sort of sting operation, I'm sure it would be done quietly without any sort of fanfare. Would we ever hear about it? I'm not sure. If it got around then it might serve to discourage others, but on the other hand their methods for catching the perps ;) would get around too and people would devise new ways of hiding their blackmarket activities.

Serenya
02-05-2004, 01:25 PM
Mostly, what they are doing is preparing to set up new message boards, which will be moderated (could be good OR bad, well done moderation is a plus), free, and which they promised will be visited and posted on daily by the devs (a strong lure). Certain strong communities (druid's grove, graffes, eqclerics) will continue to thrive. Those bought by ige/yantis, or rehatched in the wake of such an event, will probably find their shattered communities relocating to SOEs boards.

Aidon
02-05-2004, 02:57 PM
Ok, for those of you who think SOE doesn't care about Yantis/IGE:


Panamah, Panamah, Panamah.....how long ago did you fall off the turnip truck?

You know better. SOE has made that same statement before. Several times over the years, in fact. What did you expect them to say: "We love Yantis and IGE and think what they do is great!"?

Their statement in that chat means just as much as all of their previous statements. That and $1.53 will get you a tall coffee at Starbucks...

You can still get a tall coffee at starbucks for a buck-fifty?

Scirocco
02-05-2004, 08:13 PM
You can in my town. $1.53 (including tax) for a tall coffee of the day. I get one every morning....:)

Panamah, you do realize that SOE is NOT the government, right?

shakobex
04-01-2004, 05:38 PM
Yantis censored a couple of my posts on EQDruids too, merely because they discussed the topic of purchasing platinum. That's why I have left EQDruids permanently.

iegil
04-02-2004, 09:02 AM
SOE could more easily handle these issues. Just have an SOE GM start buying the plat off the website. He pays Yantis with his SOE credit card, Yantis enables an account (SOE makes a chunk of the cash back), he bans the account after the yantis rep logs off of it.

Yes, its the same as a cop, walking up to a drug dealer on the street corner and saying I'll take two joints for 20$ and busting him to see what he's got.

It wouldn't take long before Yantis / IGE would be very leery of logging in any of the "mules" with "millions" of PP, and it would not affect a single honest player.

The rest of you jealous people who want to strip honest individuals of their PP can just shut up about it. SOE wants to take a part of my 900kpp cause my credit card has an issue in this day of identity theft and fraud can get off that soap box. I hope some schmuck steals your credit card and runs up 5000$ on it in 3 days and leaves you wondering why your EQ account was cancelled.

harvey the dog
04-07-2004, 10:42 PM
Yantis is the debil, but only because i had a similar idea right around the time ultima online items started showing up on ebay, but my girlfriend wouldnt let me quit my job to play EQ on 10 different accounts all day long. go figure.

Paldor
04-09-2004, 01:09 AM
Heh.. Well I canceled one of my EQ accounts today. It stayed unused for the better part of 7 months.. So that is $15/Monthly X 7= $105 I gave to SoE for nothing.

I also deleted an old Star Wars Galaxy Account that I forgot about.. that was another 6 months @ $15/Monthly.... $90...

So yeah, I spent almost $200 in the past 7 months that I didnt get anything out of it. It was definatly time to cancel those accounts.

But yeah.. Like an idiot I didnt delete the characters.. just canceled the account, so the temptaition potential is still there... I hope it never drags me back in. One EQ account is just fine for me, and heck with WoW coming, who knows...

Sobe Silvertree
04-09-2004, 10:25 AM
From my understanding - Yantis and IGE companies (which are the same now) are set up overseas... hense why SoE can't touch them. To be quite frank, I seen this on Discovery Channel - some countries advertise this to bring companies in and you pay "that" country so much a year to have your business set up there.

OMY:

IGE U.S., LLC
C&C 5/F, Yeung Yiu Chung 8,
Ind Bldg 20, Wang Hoi Road
Kowloon Bay, Kowloon
HK

weoden
04-15-2004, 01:06 PM
Sobe is right about overseas web sites. **** is the best example.

harvey the dog
04-16-2004, 12:47 AM
wasnt there a website out there at one point published by Yantis' father claiming that Yantis was a scammer? i seem to recall coming across this link on some message board somewhere...

ill come back if i can find it.