View Full Forums : Gates of Discord: Hindsight


Firemynd
02-11-2004, 06:34 PM
Have never been so totally underwhelmed by an Everquest expansion. We paid thirty bucks for boat rides, crap filler AAs, and exp that isn't nearly as good as any given tier2+ PoP zone. Seriously - wish I hadn't wasted the money.

~Firemynd

DemonMage
02-11-2004, 06:36 PM
You get more then 2-3% a kill in Tier2, in a full group?

[Edit] And the only place you need to ride a boat to is the city zone, and I agree, they should just let the magus teleport you there, like it used to in Beta.

Tilien Venator
02-11-2004, 06:59 PM
They didn't but the boats in beta on purpose, cause people would have bitched. I know I sure as hell would of. Exp isn't bad though in the Instances. I got 2aap clearing out one of the sewers and that was with 20% going to Ldr points

Panamah
02-11-2004, 07:00 PM
No honeymoon period with this expansion? Usually everyone is fairly complimentary for a few weeks until the flaws start showing up.

Anka
02-11-2004, 07:44 PM
Oh my God. The mobs are actually a bit tricky and don't sit about waiting to be killed like PoP. Loots aren't dropping faster than I can sell them. I'm not getting AA's faster than I can count them. I'm not going to be able to stroll through Time after just a month of playing in GoD. This expansions rubbish!

(Not really)

Aldane
02-11-2004, 11:28 PM
Oh my God. The mobs are actually a bit tricky and don't sit about waiting to be killed like PoP. Loots aren't dropping faster than I can sell them. I'm not getting AA's faster than I can count them. I'm not going to be able to stroll through Time after just a month of playing in GoD. This expansions rubbish!

(Not really)

Why is it when someone has a complaint about something in EQ, invariably there is someone who shows up and either implies or directly complains about that person wanting things handed to them on a silver platter or at least that the complainer just wants it too easy? Just curious...

I'll feel more qualified to judge the expansion fairly once its resemeblance to a huge version of KC - trains...trains...and more trains - disappears, but I hate it when people just dismiss valid complaints and criticisms as someone wanting a cakewalk. (I know...just get inside an instance and enjoy the train free atmosphere, but as a non-EP equipped player, I prefer my rear firmly attached and not being handed to me in one round.) :)

Warning, potential thread derailment: I do hate the spell distribution this time around, and, as I've said in the run up to release, I despise with a passion the whole concept and implementation of Ancient spells. The least they could have done was tossed us a bone and put one 65 spell on a vendor for us to buy. The trend of spells becoming increasingly difficult to obtain continues. :(

Seriena
02-12-2004, 12:03 AM
I was very underwhelmed with LOY and then again with LDON. They both lost their charm after a few hours of exploring for me. So, I"m not surprised to hear that this one isn't all it's cracked up to be.

Fairweather Pure
02-12-2004, 12:51 AM
As long as I am having fun, I consider an expansion good. With that definition in place, GoD is a good expantion. I'm enjoying the exploration and encounters thus far. The MoBs are well done in terms of both looks and difficulty. I soloed every new MoB I saw and ate a couple of deaths in the process :P But that is just day one and I'll have plenty of time to refine my tactics.

Basically, all the GoD MoBs hit hard and fast, but have less HPs than PoP MoBs. All that is fine since I tend to root/rot anyway. MoBs tend to not get within arms length before they die if I have anything to say about it! They also have a tendency to land a debuff or other neg effect on anyone they actually have physical contact with. I believe that's the reasoning behind reduced RC recasting AAs :P They also move pretty fast, even when snared. I never really looked at my exp bar for comparisons. But let's be honest, every exp location in the game is slow compared to PoF tables or other such place.

Our AA selection is just too expensive in terms of cost. That is my only real complaint. Other than that, it's pretty much what I expected. It has plenty of raid content for VT/Elemental/Time guilds and that is what we really needed at this point in EQ's life cycle. Clearing out some of the PoP populace to leave the lower level guilds the opportunity to progress with less competition is always a good thing. Much like PoP freed up VT and VT freed up NToV and NToV freed up VP, ect.

/shrug

Some people will love it and others will hate it, but such feelings are true of everything in life. EQ is no exception to that rule.

Tiane
02-12-2004, 01:04 AM
It's really way too early to judge. And I dont think you'll see *any* guilds abandoning their scheduled poTime days to go hunting in GoD for a long long long time, if ever.

Sobe Silvertree
02-12-2004, 02:08 AM
Aye - Get through the Trials - Give it a bit of time first... I wasn't expecting a lot when it came to overall power for Sobe, but just some diffulculty getting ahead.. wanted to see something new - some of the design in Gates so far is pretty cool.. its light for what DX9 can really do.. but the touch ups in water and the art in some places is very nice.. I also like some of the machine art that I have seen.. and crossing over a bridge between mobs.. with the water roaring around you actual gave me a bit of goose bumps.. get out there .. Raid.. group .. do what you have to.. to explore.

Try to have some fun :)

Firemynd
02-12-2004, 02:55 AM
No honeymoon period with this expansion? Usually everyone is fairly complimentary for a few weeks until the flaws start showing up.

The flaws started showing up before this expansion was even released, once it was evident that our AA list was finalized. There had been few abilities we could really look forward to, and those turned out to be just more disappointment for the pile.
Spell Casting Subtlety: higher cost than Int casters.
Nature's Boon: heralded as a tool for countering AE damage, but the ward itself can be easily killed by the AE damage it's supposed to be offsetting.
Secondary Forte: cost was increased, benefit reduced by half.

What I see in the mechanics and content of GoD, is a futile attempt by Sony to appease a very vocal minority of people who have been whining incessantly about how easy EQ has become; about how the world had seemed so much 'bigger' when travel was a major undertaking; and how they fondly recalled times when death was such a penalty that they sometimes ended up with less experience at the end of a week than they had going into it.

I don't want anything handed to me on a silver platter, but a little consistency would've been nice. EQ had evolved on the same paths and trends for over three years, and suddenly they're trying to recapture the love/hate relationship players had with it during the first year. The absurd AA costs in this expansion ASSUME that everyone is earning points exponentially faster than they were during the Luclin and PoP eras, and that hasn't necessarily been the case for a majority of us since that fateful patch week when SOE suddenly decided to nerf the bejeesus out of solo and charm exp.

Yeah Sobe, the artwork and water touch-ups were nice, but IMO, not at all worth the price tag of this expansion. But yes I'll try to have some fun... while the euro guilds are CRing in GoD and debugging all the crap that wasn't fixed during beta, we'll be catching lots of boss mobs up that normally get taken down within a half hour after they spawn while most of the folks in my guild are still at work.

(Oh, speaking of debugging - for kicks, I followed a bit of quest dialogue given by one of the NPCs in Nedaria's Landing... just within the first few responses, there were three typoes and two grammatical errors. Good grief.)

~Firemynd

Aaeamdar
02-12-2004, 04:22 AM
"Secondary Forte: cost was increased, benefit reduced by half."

The benefit was reduced by 2/3rds, not 1/2. The initial Benefit was +150 Spec. The live one was +50 Spec.

I definitely agree with your commentary on the AAs though. The three listed (and FOMM) are the only ones worth getting, and they all took big hits. Int Casters get SCS for 12 points, we get the exact same thing for 18. Reminds me of the logic of charging Druids and Enchanters the same price for DC even though their DC is clearly much better. Now we get an identical ability, but pay more. Thanks.

I find lauaghable their response to why AAs are more expensive. Namely, they claim XP is so much faster to get now. There solution, of course, was right on par with SOEs normal powers of logic. Yes, XP is easier to get now than it was in Luclin. But the answer is not to make the NEW AAs a bad deal when compared to the old ones. If the problem really is that XP is now too easy to get, then they need to either nerf XP or increase all AAs now. The people just now playing the game and purchasing Run3, for example, are in fact getting it for a lot less in game time than the ones that got it when it came out. If SOE has a problem with that, then they need to raise the cost of ALL AAs (or nerf XP). All they did with GoD AAs is make them way out of balance with the older AAs.

The Ward is just stupid, in two ways. 1. 60% of its benefit is obtained by paying 7% of its cost. What were they thinking? I always thought things like FOM and MC were stupid because the cost scaled up and teh benefits did not (as opposed to things like SCM - where each level got you about the same benefit per cost - but you had to buy those benefits in larger chunks), but NB takes the cake on this. 2. The AE thing. I really hope tht is just a mistake they never thought about and we'll see the ward become immune to all resist types or given a few million HPs. That is just insanely stupid that the one area you would really want to use it in, you can't.

Secondary Forte - blech. Can't say anything nice here. This was, IMO, a direct Druid nerf. No other class would have benefitted from SF the way we do. Not even close. I did not care about the bump from 10 to 15 points, but the 150% nerf on efectiveness - amazing.

Last quibble, spells are apparently No Drop. That is really annoying. Sorry, but I hate quests. Some people love them. Great. I am not saying don't put in quests. Put in lots of them. Then make their results salable. People who like doing the quests can then go have lots of fun doing them over and over and people like me will be there to reward them for their efforts with big piles of plat. Except for the worst expansion ever - LoY - that is the way spells have always worked (except it has generally been the big raiders that got all the plat buy selling the spells). I have no problem shifting the gains from raiders to quest doers - but let it actually shift. Getting my basics should not require me to do something I find incredably unfun. (Now maybe this early info is incorrect, and spells are both quested and dropped - still wish they were not No Drop because I am impatient and happy to give someone else a lot of plat - gouge me, I don't care - so I can have my spells today. Still, if there are two paths, drops and quests, to get to each spell, that is not so bad).

Mannwin Woobie
02-12-2004, 06:53 AM
Secondary Forte - blech. Can't say anything nice here. This was, IMO, a direct Druid nerf.

Yep. Totally agree. And not surprised.

AmonraSet
02-12-2004, 10:30 AM
The absurd AA costs in this expansion ASSUME that everyone is earning points exponentially faster than they were during the Luclin and PoP eras, and that hasn't necessarily been the case for a majority of us since that fateful patch week when SOE suddenly decided to nerf the bejeesus out of solo and charm exp.


Solo xp wasn’t nerfed. What happened was that group xp was enhanced. Soloists earned xp the same as before.

PoStorms xp was nerfed from a 170% ZEM to a normal 135% ZEM for PoP zones, but this affected groups the same as soloists.

XP from charming was nerfed, but it still offers a very good rate of xp.

Finally if you’re getting AA at the same rate now as you were getting when Luclin came out (whether soloing or grouping), then either you were using a massive exploit in Luclin, or you suck really badly at getting AA.

Arienne
02-12-2004, 10:35 AM
I guess my biggest disappointment from first hand experiences in GoD is the Run 5. I'm not upset that anyone can buy the ability, but disappointed that we don't have an upgrade to our movement increase spell line to compensate as we have in the past. I'm looking for something to "bring to the table" for grouping and I am at a loss at the moment. I am having flashbacks of some horrible memories of PoP Justice trials when a small portion of our guild consisting of all the DPS went strolling through the trials leaving the non-essential classes behind.

Xxithiss
02-12-2004, 12:22 PM
"

Secondary Forte - blech. Can't say anything nice here. This was, IMO, a direct Druid nerf. No other class would have benefitted from SF the way we do. Not even close. I did not care about the bump from 10 to 15 points, but the 150% nerf on efectiveness - amazing

This has to be the MOST ignorant comment I have ever seen on these boards.

Lets see...Some druid will do alt/evo, some alt/conj, some will do evo/conj.

Now lets think about Shamans when it comes to this AA.

Some will do Alt/Conj, and some will do Conj/Alt, and thats it. We have ONE evo nuke and ONE evo rain, thats it 60+. Abj is like 2 or 3 low mana, long duration buffs, Divination is Invis and acumen, thats it.

Shamans cast Slow, heals, buffs and dots, and that 99% of thier mana usage. All that falls under alt/conj. There is NO arguement for ANY other spec choice at all.

Mannwin Woobie
02-12-2004, 12:36 PM
This has to be the MOST ignorant comment I have ever seen on these boards.

Nope, you topped it.

Kineada
02-12-2004, 12:48 PM
Nope, you topped it.

Actually, the shammy's statements are true. While it 2nd Forte nerf affects druids, it doesn't affect just druids.

The "This has to be the MOST ignorant comment I have ever seen on these boards." was in response to the rant about 2nd Forte being a DIRECT DRUID NERF. When clearly it wasn't.

Barkrubber
02-12-2004, 01:02 PM
Solo xp wasn’t nerfed. What happened was that group xp was enhanced. Soloists earned xp the same as before.

You say Tomato, I say tomato(e)

Zem was nerfed in pop zones.. especially in fire. I went from 18% an aa per kill at tables to 14%. In compensation group's were given more exp to balance out the ZEM nerf, with a 6th member taking away 0 Exp from the pie.

I call this a solo exp nerf, intended to cause more people to group.

Mannwin Woobie
02-12-2004, 01:10 PM
/rant on

This has to be the MOST ignorant comment I have ever seen on these boards

Actually, it was THIS particular statement I was referring to. Starting off a response by calling someone ignorant because they have a different opinion than you do simply makes me want to hold a mirror up to your face while you do it.

/rant off

Granted, all casters can purchase this AA. While it may not be a "direct Druid nerf", many of us think we would have benefitted the most, and thus have lost the most.

Iilane SalAlur
02-12-2004, 01:25 PM
Sorry but I do not believe it is an ignorant comment. Rather, the comment highlights the traditional group role druids have been placed in since the first servers started running - the utility role of support healer (Alteration) or support nuker (Evocation).

Forcing druids to choose one single specialization implies that all druids will not be able to perform both roles equally well. Indeed, druids often have to change specializations due to changing circumstances in the game. Thus, many druids see Secondary Forte as "The Druid AA" because it would allow us to be able to perform both roles of support healer and support nuker equally well. In fact, this same AA has been proposed many times in the past year or two by various druids.

Mannwin Woobie
02-12-2004, 02:05 PM
And I agree with you. But that is NOT what the Shaman 'visitor' was saying.

Scirocco
02-12-2004, 02:11 PM
What I see in the mechanics and content of GoD, is a futile attempt by Sony to appease a very vocal minority of people who have been whining incessantly about how easy EQ has become; about how the world had seemed so much 'bigger' when travel was a major undertaking; and how they fondly recalled times when death was such a penalty that they sometimes ended up with less experience at the end of a week than they had going into it.


You mean the Hair-Shirt Crowd ("I went to Qinimi and all I got was this Hair Shirt!")? Which is a chapter of the Society of Self-Flagellants....:)

Chenier
02-12-2004, 02:14 PM
Guys, chill on figuring out who's comment was ignorant or not...keke =D

princess0fdiabl0
02-12-2004, 02:28 PM
Lets see...Some druid will do alt/evo, some alt/conj, some will do evo/conj.


no, the majorty of druids, and i mean all but maybe MAYBE 5% (50% of statistics are made up on the spot :moon: ) will choose conjuration. Most druids nuke over dotting, altho with soloing being the bish it is in GoD, they dots might be used a bit more, however i doubt enough to warrant a second specialty.

fixed your quote - Chen

Tiane
02-12-2004, 04:53 PM
Actually solo xp was slightly nerfed when the grouping bonus was enhanced. Not much, but it was there. Alan mentioned it as part of the description when he said that it would mostly be the same for groups of 2 and 3.

Stormey
02-12-2004, 05:40 PM
Finally if you’re getting AA at the same rate now as you were getting when Luclin came out (whether soloing or grouping), then either you were using a massive exploit in Luclin, or you suck really badly at getting AA.

Some people can't spend all their time getting AA's, whether it be due to lack of flags, lack of time, or a combination of those and other factors. When I heard about the new expansion, I rushed to save AA's. I went from 83 to 108 in a matter of weeks, not hours or days. After playing for 3 years (without a significant break), the daily exp grind gets boring. I'm very satisfied with my 108 AA's, doesn't necessarily mean I suck really badly at getting AA.

Noliniel
02-12-2004, 06:45 PM
As a general rule, don't flame the expansion yet til you know it by heart, every content, zones, etc.. Cause there is always stuff unexplored that you may amazed too. :)

Scirocco
02-12-2004, 07:37 PM
Taken at face value, that means you cannot criticize GoD unless you are in a top uber guild and have been in Time many times. Which is silly.

Avendesoral
02-12-2004, 08:23 PM
Quite frankly this is the most fun Ive ever had in an expansion. The zones are awesome, the later trials are challenging and the loot is on par with the difficulty. Dont complain about nothing to do when youre not doing anything. Theres content everywhere in all of the zones, events, bosses, flagging events etc.

Our single group has gone through a ton of flagging zones and is now doing trials in Kodtaz, gotten 135hp/mana/end ear/range and a 160hp/mana/end earring so far along with misc augments that you would find on Time+ ldon raids. Some of the stuff was actually kinda tough and a lot of fun.

From the looks of things you can single group flag all the way to the end game zone, just speculation but most of what weve seen points to that. With the gear dropping in the lower zones people will be able to equip up to VT/EP+ level with no problem and work thier way through with or without a guild. Its a lot more about competence now than being in a large guild.

Borblefoot Furtoe
02-12-2004, 10:39 PM
Lets see we have gone from calling a decrease in an ability a nerf to calling an increase in an ability a nerf.

So what if 2nd forte only raises your second specialization 50 points. So what if it cost more. It more than you had before.

Personally I love this expansion. Awesome mobs, awesome zones to explore. increases in power for all classes new spells to get. New items to get.

I spent 2 hours in abysmal just exploring around after a smallish raid into ferubi. Loved it still have more exporing to do.

My two complaints about the expansion so far.

There is no dock in Natimbi to get on the boat. You have to have lev to do it.

2. The three of the four quest givers in Abysmal give you new no-drop containers. As if I have room for non 10 slot non giant sized containers in my inventory. I lost almost 20 slots of bank space due to this.

I feel sorry for those who didn't buy this expansion its awesome and I am loving every minute of it.


Borblefoot Furtoe
Storm Warden
Resolution
Firiona Vie Server

Vermilion Starfires
02-13-2004, 12:23 AM
Zem was nerfed in pop zones.. especially in fire. I went from 18% an aa per kill at tables to 14%.

Let me be the first to say BOO-#$*#ING-HOO. While the rest of us are lucky to get 2 or MAYBE 3% per kill you're complaining that you ONLY get 14%. Im sorry but that is just wrong.

kendali
02-13-2004, 03:11 AM
i think the biggest reason it's hard to accept that shamans or necros (both who technically would have benefitted from SF) were hit as hard as druids by the change in the secondary forte aa in beta....is because these classes basically couldn't care less about mana preservation for one reason each...and druids can't compare to that particular class attribute

Kendali Thistlewood
Storm Warden of Tunare

Mannwin Woobie
02-13-2004, 09:57 AM
these classes basically couldn't care less about mana preservation

Good point

Firemynd
02-13-2004, 10:16 AM
Avendesoral: Dont complain about nothing to do when youre not doing anything. Theres content everywhere in all of the zones, events, bosses, flagging events etc.

I didn't say there was nothing to do and my complaint had little to do with content, but I'm glad to hear Discord has plenty to occupy the PoTime folks ... hopefully long enough to keep the cockblocking and farming of previous content to a minimum for a while on some servers.

Thank you though, for offering a perspective to which I cannot personally relate. I don't have the hours for playing you apparently have, so I've not explored much beyond the surface. Moreover, it has been difficult to find friends and guildies with whom to explore, since most of them are approaching this expansion with some trepidation, same as these (http://thedruidsgrove.org/forums/showthread.php?t=6618) folks and many others.

Unfortunately, Sony hasn't promoted GoD's content much if at all. They've let word-of-mouth do the advertising, which in their own hindsight was a big mistake considering the topics most frequently talked about (AAs and spells), ended up being this expansion's most disappointing features.

Perhaps they should have hired a few evangelists from PoTime guilds to tell everyone in EQ communities what exciting content lay ahead, so average folks like myself and my guildies could look beyond the surface. Then again, from the looks of your post, maybe they anticipated more unpaid evangelism from the PoTime crowd than they're getting ... looking back on it, that'd be another bad call.

Guess that 'hindsight' thing works both ways. :)

~Firemynd

Kineada
02-13-2004, 12:51 PM
More in this case equals almost nothing. What was the savings computed out to? It was like 2 or 3%. 15 points for that? That's crap, and yet another time-sink that offers them more money but us wasted time.

While that is certainly true, no one is forcing you to get the AA. If you have better AA's to buy then by all means, buy them!

But there are some who don't have anything else to buy (the ones who have maxxed innate INT and innate cold resistance with 30 banked - and losing AA dings every time they dinged). For these people, 15 points for an extra 50 spec isn't really a bad idea.

Teaenea
02-13-2004, 03:13 PM
Quite frankly this is the most fun Ive ever had in an expansion. The zones are awesome, the later trials are challenging and the loot is on par with the difficulty. Dont complain about nothing to do when youre not doing anything. Theres content everywhere in all of the zones, events, bosses, flagging events etc.

I tend to agree with you. I do think exp in these zones is low for the risk, but, I am having fun attempting the trials. The new zones are challenging and there seem to be some decent drops to be had, even by single groups. Even though the expansion seems to be primarily for Elemental/time geared players, there are still things for others to do. Non-Trial instanced zones are far easier than the same zone in a trial, and should offer rare mobs that drop spells and decent loot as well. Not saying they will be cake walks. They won't GoD is very challenging.

Sealody
02-14-2004, 07:57 AM
Awesome so far...

People who think the inital instanced zones are hard/bad... heheh. just wait til you step foot into the next tier instanced zones. I did with a group... and we had some welcomed surprises there.

And it only gets harder from here.

I like the quote from a dev:
"Time gear in Tacvi is like wearing brown chitin in NToV".

Can't wait to see...

Sea!

Noliniel
02-14-2004, 01:32 PM
Yup heh. A group of full time geared people in vxed or tipt trial = a group of bazaar geared level 60 people in BOT =p. That's how hard it is.

Avendesoral
02-14-2004, 06:39 PM
Yeah Fire, its all about the uber vs casual. If you bothered to have a look around (which its obvious youve not done) you would love this expansion. You can make an attempt to judge beyond looking at my gear next time perhaps and make comments about how many hours I "must" spend online to be where I am.

There are more opportunities for casual gamers in this expac than any other theyve released. Vxed/Tipt were pretty easy actually Noli, the Kod'Taz trial was a bit tougher, but it was really really awesome, dungeon crawl/raid feeling all rolled into one (just wish they itemized the last boss ;p)

I hear it already, just like with PoP...OMGOMG ITS TOO HARD. Thats the attitude that tells me youre just not trying.

Anka
02-14-2004, 08:08 PM
I expect with your nice gear Aveyn, and equally well geared probably friends to boot, it wasn't too hard for you. That doesn't mean that druid wandering in with a 7k hp buffed tank, without clarity as main healer, won't find it hard no matter how hard they try. Next time I'll try going in with a cleric, or enchanter, and definately a bigger tank ;). If I have to wait a couple of months to really get going in GoD then that's fine too, it'll still be there waiting for me, but I will have lost the fun of exploring new content as it's realised.

Avendesoral
02-14-2004, 09:26 PM
Its not instant uber by any means, but it provides a way for casuals to gear up to Time+ gear with enough effort put in. People have been complaining about that for long enough, now is thier chance to get there and prove that they actually have some ability to play.

With the relative ease of bosses (low as hell attack + druid debuffs = gimps especially) and the gear equivalent from them players should be able to progress through VT to EP to Time equivalent in this entire expac almost alone over the course of several months to a year. My response on ease was to Noli comparing Vxed/Tipt for Time geared players to lvl 60s in BoT gear, it wasnt at all that hard, people shouldnt go in with that conception.

Considering that that wasnt even an option for any expac before this I think casuals should be pretty damn happy in general.

Noliniel
02-15-2004, 09:46 AM
Well its was pretty hard for us lol. We had a 10 k pally around for tank and 2 clerics, 1 shammy, 1 monk and me. Pulls had to be carefully split so we don't get any adds, add could often kill someone fast if we don't watch out. It was a bit harder than LDON I guess. we made vxed in 4 hrs but failed tipt on the boss. :( Yeah I am a bit exagerating on that, was sleepy when I posted that. :p

Arienne
02-15-2004, 11:57 AM
At the moment GoD has the potential of shaping up to be a pretty decent expansion. BUT, it's not going to be the "end all" for those who haven't waded through at least MOST of the content of other expansions. It's not a "quick fix" for the uber vs casual debate (there never will be one), but the dungeon runs seem to accommodate players who aren't fully Time equipped but who can group well for hard LDoNs.

I'm sure a lot is broken as is always the case with EQ expansions. It's EXTREMELY dependant on "the big three" for dungeon runs... mezzer, heavy tank, heavy healer... but a cleric can't do it ALL for the healing so druids are quite popular with the groups. I see potential issues for shamen only because people rarely think of them as patch healers and more as slowers and debuffers. From my recent experiences, mana regenning/slowing classes (bards and 'chanters) are preferred over the "best" slowers in the game. This may change as we get deeper in

It's also extremely dependant on having the time to break through the content. You can't just waltz in, start a dungeon and pop out with a victory 30 minutes later like many were doing at the start of LDoN. I did a run through Vxed yesterday that took about 5 hours because we had an odd mix of a group, and in the end we failed. /shrug I'll make it through with a different mix next time and it won't take 5 hours because we know what to expect now... just as we did with LDoN, PoP and all the other previous expansions.

The main question a lot of my friends are struggling with these days is do they want to go through the painful flagging again like they did in PoP. Most people who missed the early flaggings in PoP and decided to give it a try later on found themselves so far behind that it was just easier to quit the game altogether. But then, many are excellent raiders... just not raid organizers so... we lost quite a few. It does seem (so far) that GoD advancement is not as strongly raid based as the other expansions have been. As Avendesoral says, it may well be possible to get to the end of the expansion with a single group OR full guild raids. But we'll see what is found as more progress through.

Teaenea
02-15-2004, 04:06 PM
It's EXTREMELY dependant on "the big three" for dungeon runs... mezzer, heavy tank, heavy healer... but a cleric can't do it ALL for the healing so druids are quite popular with the groups.

I'm sure a lot will think along these lines, and unfortunately will be considered required when it's not. Using the first Sewer Trial as an example. One guild group succeeded with a Necro, Enchanter, SK, Two druids and a Monk. No cleric, no Warrior. Actually this group was the first in the guild to win the trial.

I just finished a successful trial today with a Cleric, Mage, Beastlord, Monk and Shadowknight. No Enchanter, No Warrior. Once you get past how hard the mobs hit for, and start modifying your techniques to compensate, they aren't that tough. They are still challenging, but, not imposible.

The main question a lot of my friends are struggling with these days is do they want to go through the painful flagging again like they did in PoP.

There are, apparently, two methods of getting guilds flagged for the higher content. One is for players to take initiative and get groups through the trials. But, there is also raid content that allows people to bypass the trials and get the flags. Also, because these trials are instanced zones, there is no bottleneck caused by other guilds when trying to get flags. So far GoD flagging looks to be very well thought out.

Sealody
02-16-2004, 04:19 AM
It's EXTREMELY dependant on "the big three" for dungeon runs... mezzer, heavy tank, heavy healer... but a cleric can't do it ALL for the healing so druids are quite popular with the groups.

Quite true, but doable without the holy trinity. We beat the mountain expeditions with cleric, druid, rogue, shammy, monk and wizzy. No mezzer and monk-tank. Hehe... Not denying, it is most definally easier with those 3 then our group, but people shouldnt just discard it as undoable.

I do have to say, even clerics are asking for backup healers now. Which leaves druids or shammies. Shaman are too busy with their stuff (as well as limited backup healing). So that means druids are quite well wanted in this expansion. Good news here.

Oh.. that's for the lower tier Barindu expeditions. Kod'taz tho... hehe... fun fun! :)

Sea! (who really needs to update her sig)

Kineada
02-17-2004, 03:51 PM
Trinity is an appropriate requirement for GoD. The trinity will make life easier but you can make do without them ... Provided your "tank" is very well equipped. Vxed can be done with out a heavy tank, but Tipt is very difficult without one. But still doable. We did Tipt with a druid, bard, monk, mage, cleric and paladin. Pally was an app so not as well equipped as the rest. Pally went down to Heartstriker at 80% and the monk took over. The cleric and I has to chain spam SL/NI to keep the monk alive but we managed it.

P.S.
CH is DEAD in GoD. Our clerics have dememmed it and replaced it with DI.

Iisbliss
02-19-2004, 06:14 AM
we abanonded time for GoD

and I dont regret it yet

and its quite fun and challenging to beat the scripts without the holy trinity, and its doable.

Nimchip
02-19-2004, 08:21 AM
Im having fun on Vxed and Tipt flagging members so far... :)

Arienne
02-22-2004, 11:55 AM
Well.... another week into GoD and I am seeing a new development. Where I was happy that druids were wanted and even needed for sewers and mountain trials, I am seeing a new development as a few of my guildmates have moved on to Kodtaz while the rest of us are trying to get the stragglers through mountain trials. It seems that in Kodtaz a group now "requires" TWO clerics and no druid. Ah well.....

iegil
02-23-2004, 09:31 AM
Kodtaz for my guild is the same way.

The trials there are resulting in me deeming this the worst expansion ever for druids.

2 Clerics for a KodTaZ trial, 1 warrior, 2 dps, and a chanter. Thats the normal grouping, dps = rogue / necro / wizard. Someone who can summon corpses and a wizard being preferred.

The animals in these raid zones are too high a level for us to charm, so our dps pretty much sucks. Vxed, Tipt, we can charm random dogs and out dps anyone except a chanter.