It is time to

give Paladins a 96% res
give Shamans and Druids a 50-90% res
make sacrified corpses resable.


I did sewer trials with 0 death too, that isn't a valid argument, death is something that happens in game, and it doesn't even have to be the players fault (lag spike, LD). Clerics would still be nice (and in certain situations even required) to have in groups simply because of their superior heal capabilities.

I bot a 65 cleric and I could care less about resses, but in my opinion it is time to think about current res situation again. Be it for druids or not, more classes need resses in EQ.

In World of Warcraft and most likely in EQ2 all priest classes will be able to res.

Or not. I can only assume this post was made to fuel the board trolls.

personally Id liek to see more rez/return corpse just because if you only have 1 rezzer in a trial, or deep in a zone, a single death of that rezzer just ended your adventure.

There is no recovery even if you manage to beat the killing mob, just because so so many see invis/respawn.

What I would like to see other than true rez is any of the following:
1) a spell that pulls a person back to thier body (zero xp) but allows the body to be rezzed later.

2) Rez wand. So much utility is buyable now a days for those classes that need invis or need run speed. Add rez to the list. You "might" restrict this wand to those classes that can cast priestly spells. Clr/Dru/Shm and thier hybrids Pal/Ranger/Bst. Just so you don't make Rogues or FD class able to use it to drag a healer and then FD/Rez. IE the restriction wouldnt let it become game breaking.

The importance of res has nothing to do with experience loss.

The importance of res is the ability to bring a player back to his/her corpse. This is more so important in 6 person groups where there is repop between the dead person and his/her corpse.

I could care less if druids or shamans gets "res" or not. However I will contend that more classes need the ability to bring a player back to his/her corpse.

"make sacrificed corpses rezzable"

rofl, why?

There should be rez bots.

"Hail, Spanky Rhezha'lot"
"Hail, Araxx Darkroot. I see thou art nakkid. Wilt thouest needeth a resurrection? - I'll ignore the fact you are retired and can't even log in."
"jez pwease, Spanky. I died in West Commons. Ran into a tree as I was watching TV."
PLIM! Spanky Rhezha'lot disappears.
Spanky Rhezha'lot tells you: "Readieth for rezeth?"
You tell Spanky Rhezha'lot: "yeath."

And you can imagine the rest. :D

I wouldn't care if you could use tribute points to do rezzes somehow, but the way GoD trials have been designed means rez is no longer an optional extra. It should be opened up more.

The ability to bring players back to their corpse should be expanded to other classes (Shaman/Druid?). It is very much so a needed skill to be able to keep a mission going without the need for 30 minutes of running the cleric back to the zone entrance or even more if the corpses get stuck somewhere in zone that the cleric cannot get to and so you need someone with SoS or FD to get them back (or summons).

I have thought for a long time that more res options were needed in the game. It only makes sense that Shaman and Druids would get some type of res since they are often group healers (or backup healers, so the only res if the cleric dies).

The idea I have favored for a long time was a res that returned no exp, but left the res timer on the corpse running. It would allow a group to continue on if someone dies when they might otherwise have to quit. You could even go further and give rangers and beastlords reanimation so they could res with the penalty of a full experience loss.

At the very least, it would be nice if druids and shaman could get reanimation to at least bring their fallen group members back to their body. I would say anything over about a 50% exp res for druids and shaman would be over the top (and 50% may be too much too).

A spell for druids that did nothing but bring the person back to the group (leaving the ability for cleric to rez later). Would allow groups to use shamans/druids without fear of 1 death causing a 30-40min CR. Obviously clerics would be preferred, but it allows the option.

Druids should get a reincarnation spell. It brings the player back as some animal illusion that they're stuck with for some time... ^.^

"make sacrificed corpses rezzable"

rofl, why?


This would make necros real ressers.

The importance of res has nothing to do with experience loss.

In my example paladins getting 96% simply because it can't be that only one class has best res available - a spell that every other class requires.

But I agree, it isn't the exp that is important, it is getting people back to their corpses.

give Paladins a 96% res

Why? Their fine with their own 90% rez and so its everyone else. Let clerics handles the 96% rezzes.

give Shamans and Druids a 50-90% res
Well if you care to read the old threads on it, you would know its pros and cons and why people against it. This topic has been brought up over and over again heh. I am personally against it. :p


make sacrified corpses resable.
And thus ruin the bazaar market for EEs? No thanks.

Well if you care to read the old threads on it, you would know its pros and cons and why people against it. This topic has been brought up over and over again heh. I am personally against it.

I know the old threads, thats why this thread has 'GoD era' as subject. GoD changed some aspects that were discussed back then. I was against a res back then too, but today I think it should be open for more classes.

There's been a ton of threads begging for cleric invis lately partly due to the 30 minute CRs in GoD. Having a class that can invis and bring a player back to their corpse without using an essence emerald would be welcome by many.

could make an aa rez with reuse timer

I have never been for Druid rezzes and I will never be for it.
Thats other classes abilities and I don't want to dilute their class anymore than I want them to dilute mine further.

I do however have an idea to partially help this problem without stepping on anyones toes.

Give clerics and Paladins to Ability to rez themselves back to their own corpse at a penalty. Say maybe a cleric can rez themself to their corpse with 70% XP recovery and a paladin at 50 or somthing like that to make them use this only when needed.

Give clerics and Paladins to Ability to rez themselves back to their own corpse at a penalty. Say maybe a cleric can rez themself to their corpse with 70% XP recovery and a paladin at 50 or somthing like that to make them use this only when needed. That kind of thinking is one thing that has always bothered me about whoring out rezzes and rez style abilities to other classes. If you're going to give another class rez, it better be a 96 percent rez. Why do I say this? Simple, if it's anything less Clerics are really the only ones hurt by this. Why is that? Simple, nobody else is going to be willing to take a 75% rez when a 96% rez is available. Except that a Cleric would be FORCED to take the lesser exp rez just so s/he can get back to the camp and give everyone else a 96% rez. It's simply not fair that in a group of 6, 1 person survives to do the rez, 4 people are given a 96% rez and the Cleric is given something substantially less.

So if you're going to give another class a rez ability, it should be 96% or better else Clerics get shafted since nobody else will ever take the lesser exp when a Cleric is available.

Edit: fixed grammer type stuff

I still think all priests should get some form of res... can see my healing paradigm article for reasons why

Just get some of your guildies to twink out level 52 toons, and permafarm Vox for the rez stick. Problem solved!

I have never been for Druid rezzes and I will never be for it.Give clerics and Paladins to Ability to rez themselves back to their own corpse at a penalty.Hello, exploits! 3xDA run past everything, res, and drag the rest of the bodies and res them. You've just bypassed the whole zone.
Simple, nobody else is going to be willing to take a 75% rez when a 96% rez is available.Honestly, since PoP (and continuing in LDoN and GoD) the % XP gain has been irrelevant for all but newbies. Whether it's 50%, 75%, or 96%, you'll gain it all back in a few minutes of clearing anyway, far less time than it would take you find a "better" res. Res is all about bringing that cleric back to his corpse so you don't auto-fail in GoD and end up wasting hours of your time.

Druids should get a 0% res with a component and SKs should get Convergence. And Clerics should get a damned invis spell already!

Honestly, since PoP (and continuing in LDoN and GoD) the % XP gain has been irrelevant for all but newbies. Whether it's 50%, 75%, or 96%, you'll gain it all back in a few minutes of clearing anyway, far less time than it would take you find a "better" res. Res is all about bringing that cleric back to his corpse so you don't auto-fail in GoD and end up wasting hours of your time. I know this and you know this. 90% of the populace does NOT know this (or just won't accept it). Like I said, I just don't like how a lesser rez for other classes would work out for Clerics. It means that they're forced to take a greater experience loss than everyone when you have a partial wipe.

So if you're going to give another class a rez, I'd like to see it be 96%. With that said, give it to Warriors. If nothing else it would REALLY piss off the Paladins :flipbg:

I honestly think that if any one class should get a rez-type spell, it should be Shadowknights. Paladins get a rez because they're a cleric hybrid; Shadowknights should get an essence emerald-using rez much like what Necromancers have, just make it a lesser percentage than the Necro rez. That would give us 4 classes with the ability to rez, and would make groups a little less nervous about going in without a member of the Holy Trinity.

Tyenu Emissary of Magic
Immortals Rising
Torvonnilous

I know the old threads, thats why this thread has 'GoD era' as subject. GoD changed some aspects that were discussed back then. I was against a res back then too, but today I think it should be open for more classes.


Good point. GoD has changed the playing field on this a bit, and I have changed my mind. Druids and shaman should get some form of res...the exact % doesn't matter much to me.

Likewise, clerics having an invis spell of some sort also is called for by GoD.

That kind of thinking is one thing that has always bothered me about whoring out rezzes and rez style abilities to other classes. If you're going to give another class rez, it better be a 96 percent rez.

If you would like to quote and dispute things I say please feel free to do so but make sure you read what I say first. I said ABSOLUELY nothing about giving rezzes to another class. In fact I stated I'm against it.

Give shamans and druids a rez-type spell that leaves rez timer (or freezes it) and brings person back to group. No exp gain. Allows rez later.

No Res for druids, shamans,

SK res with emerald kinda okay

I'm not sure how giving an SK res helps anything. The problem is if you don't have a cleric, then you most likely have a druid or shaman for healing, or if your cleric goes down, if you have a backup healer, then it is most likely a druid or shaman. Druids and Shaman are the alternatives to a cleric. They are healing classes, so they should be an alternative to cleric with res. This is even worse than clerics not having invis (not that I am against them getting it at all). At least clerics can get invis potions or buy an invis device from their local gnome. There are no res potions or gnomish res devices. Druids and Shaman need a way to get a body back to the corpse in groups with or without experience.

One other thing I thought of for a class that could use some help in the utility area was a spell called something like "Call of the Fallen Hero." A CotH type spell for mages that can be used to summon someone from a different zone by targeting their corpse. There would have to be some downside though, such as res effects (the easy, already tested way out), or massive mana cost (to preven chain usage), or an expensive component. It could also be restricted to group members only to further prevent any type of abuse durring raids.

It should be componentless. If it's in any way cumbersome to use, the group will want the cleric to run back like always on a total wipe. They've been buying invis potions for years while the dead group lounges in fv->thurg->nexus->pok waiting for the res box. If it inconveniences others to change then status quo will remain. :(

(Fortunately many invis casters have the foresight to be in nedaria to do the invis after a wipe without waiting to be begged to come invis (repeatedly))

[QUOTE=Zorx]It is time to

give Paladins a 96% res
give Shamans and Druids a 50-90% res
make sacrified corpses resable.


QUOTE]

Well I agree Druids and Shaman should get some type of rez or at least corpse recall. Actually they tested a form of druid rez as part of Luclin originally but scraped it very early on.

What Verant used to say about recall rezzes or low-xp cleric self-rezzes that would allow xp recovery via a later 96% rez is that because of the way xp-return and rezzes were coded it would be too much work. Personally I think thats just them being lazy because I cant imagine that it would be that unworkable. You could have an XP-recovery counter on corpses and the usual 3-hour rez timer would apply to all rezzes on that corpse (i.e. doing a small rez wouldn't buy you another 3 hours to rez-back more).

There's been a ton of threads begging for cleric invis lately partly due to the 30 minute CRs in GoD.

LOL,

Yea, give the clerics everything. Why can't they buy potions or use DA. They are so against us getting anything worth while, so be it with me on them getting what they want.

Hell they can rezz, heal, and nuke and many more things that I don't know about. And now they want invis also....LOL

Heck while we are at it, lets give them SOW. :physics:

LOL,

Yea, give the clerics everything. Why can't they buy potions or use DA. They are so against us getting anything worth while, so be it with me on them getting what they want.

Hell they can rezz, heal, and nuke and many more things that I don't know about. And now they want invis also....LOL

Heck while we are at it, lets give them SOW. :physics:


Jboots, Tboots, sow potions, innate run speed aa. Not going to respond to the DA use or buying potions etc as in effect clerics have bought the stuff since day one (being the only caster class with no invis).

The bolded comment made me laugh take out rezz and the same could be said about most people as regards your class ehh.

Aamadar LeCambrion
Fennin Ro Cleric (Retired)

they can have invis if they want, as long as we get a rez

innate camo > having to cast invis anyway :)

aamadar im sure you realize that ramia is simply a fool of a troll and his opinion is not shared by the entire druid population, but heres to reminding you that class stereotypes are completely stupid.

Until GoD, I saw no need for other classes to have resses, but now that has completely changed. Either it needs to be a crafted or store bought item with charges and limited only to priest classes (similar to buying invis items), or give shamans and druids some sort of lesser res. Having to give up on an expedition just because the cleric dies is too limiting, or the fun of waiting 20+ minutes for the cleric to get to an xp spot in GoD. Have the spell be some sort of variant of Restoration which is a 75% res with increased cast time/mana cost. If the spell is only 50% or less, clerics will be shafted the most as it will mostly be used to res clerics, mostly people will hold out for a 96% res (its not as if druids can even be the primary healer in GoD past sewers expedition without a ton of downtime + high risk of wipeout to named ;p).

Cleric summonable norent nodrop (targetted summon a la modrod2) priest-only 5 charge 96% res stick with 30-second cast time, must equip (level 65 spell).

Makes me laugh that all those peeps who were so vociferous about saying they didn't want a rez are now changing their minds.

Cleric summonable norent nodrop (targetted summon a la modrod2) priest-only 5 charge 96% res stick with 30-second cast time, must equip (level 65 spell).

I like that idea. Make it an AA or something. :)

Makes me laugh that all those peeps who were so vociferous about saying they didn't want a rez are now changing their minds.


A change in circumstances often leads to a change in approach. You can't bind in GoD, so the death of the resser(s) in the group means either a long CR run back, or giving up on an instance (which can easily mean several hours of progress gone). In GoD, death is particularly fast and erratic, and many times the group wins the fight only to have the only resser(s) die, thus ending the trip.

In addition, beyond the Sewer trials, odds are you will have a cleric in the group, and the use of a res by someone else in the group is going to be used on the cleric (who then can use their res stick on anyone else). Why punish the clerics by forcing them to be the only ones to accept a low-% res?

Let me emphasize this last point: A LOW-% RES PUNISHES THE RESSEE, NOT THE RESSER.

Similarly, why force clerics to spend AA to get a skill that primarily benefits druids or shaman? Make the druids and shaman pay the AA.

Exactly Scirocco. Very well said.

If the clerics all died in fear or hate you were screwed then too, I dont see what changed except the distance for binding, and I do think melee should be able to bind in the wayfayer camp in Nederia or Natimbi.

But right now clerics can bind in Nederia...and the druid in the group can meet him there for SOE and invis to make it faster to get back.

There are res items in the game you can camp, good items for Monks and other FD classes to have, I wouldnt object to there being a few more of them, or maybe a very expensive to make res potion or tinkerable res item that is expensive and complicated to recharge.

Likely if the all the clerics in a raid dies, so did the shamans and the druids and the palys.

exodus exists to save your cleric doesnt it? or are you talking about clericless groups?
previous posts on healing show a druid/shaman healing combo or druid/druid doesnt work in GOD.

anyway, back to the game

If the clerics all died in fear or hate you were screwed then too, I dont see what changed except the distance for binding, and I do think melee should be able to bind in the wayfayer camp in Nederia or Natimbi
You can't compare raids with one group instances. If you wiped with a raid force in hate next to innoruuk it was your own fault. There would have been ways to avoid a wipe. And for fearplane, you don't want to know how many levels I lost doing CRs in fearplane back in 1999. It has nothing to do with res availability.

GoD has a lot of single group content and there is no space for things like linkdeath, lag spikes, thunderstorms or other things the player has no control of. On raids it is very unlikely all enchanters or tanks go linkdead at same time due to a thunderstorm. It is way too easy to wipe and loose hours of gameplay.

Recently I played my cleric in Tipt. At Kyv fight I was summoned when Kyv was almost dead and I died and a sec later kvy died. It happens. I don't want to judge if it was my fault for overhealing or the warriors fault for not taunting enough. The fact is I died and there was no other resser around. As a cleric I did my job and the MT survived... Everyone else in group got the flag. Luckily I already had the flag from an earlier attempt but you see the problem. It is easy to waste a few hours gameplay and that causes frustration.

Look at the one group situation:
A group could wipe in deep Sebilis, well too bad for the group. Port back, summon corpses. And continue clearing down again. You were most likely there for exp only or to farm spells, you don't have to 'restart' an expedition with 2-5 hours duration.

The game changed, and the frustration when failing raised. Personally I like GoD and the one group challange it brought back to the game, but I fear it is the wrong time to do this. The game evolved and changed. There is a new generation of players around who don't have the patience for CRs, or are simply used to PoP graveyards.


--Zorx

Our standard GoD group: Clr, Dru, Necro, Bard, Tank (Sk or War) plus one more for dps (in other words, extra poon who needs flag)
I will spare you the strat's
but I will say, the Necro is always FD when we engage any white or yellow cons, and when we kill the boss.
We don't have the 20 to 30 minute CRs. (Unless it's a total wipe)

I call this working with what is out there, instead of wishing on falling stars.

Flame away.

You can't compare raids with one group instances.

I don't know if I'd calssify sewers like that, but Ikkinz trials are one group raids.

There are so many easy fixes..

1) Make the rez-stick rechargeable. More would stay in game and guilds would buy them for non-cleric's to use to rez the clerics.
2) Make a questable rez-stick type item for Dru/Sha/SK that would require a elemental level quest to get. (or lesser level if low number of charges)
3) Make a Rez Potion that requires an essence emerald to make.
4) Make a gnomish rez item that requires Essence emeralds to charge.
5) Create Epic II items for lv 65 Players and put a rez on the shaman or druid one.
6) Create a 1600pt LDoN Augment that has a single charge of Rez.

The % rez and number of charges can be based on difficulty to get but in reality it is a last ditch item that would put other classes on par with Necro's for rezing.

There are res items in the game you can camp
Rez goos were removed a long time ago (confirmed by a dev). I'm still waiting for a confirmed report of a Vox stick dropping in the past few months (anyone got one to drop?).

So no, there arent really.

If the problem we're thinking of is primarily a GoD problem, then it's a problem that affects primarily level 65s.

From my point of view, I'd like to see a way to bring a cleric back to the group/corpse during an expedition. At the same time, I don't want to see cleric/paladin/necro abilities made less important in any way.

It seems to me that a druid/shaman AA to bring someone back to their corpse
1) with no exp regain
2) allowing a cleric rez after for exp regain
3) with a 15 or 20 time
4) costing 9 AA points
5) available starting at level 63 or so
would be a reasonable way to handle it.

Druids and Shaman are a priest class, and often a back up healer who might survive in a group even if a cleric goes down. (I have in GoD, a couple times, though not as many times as I've died while the cleric survived.)

Clerics need to NOT be punished by having to be totally necessary for EVERY CR run. And clerics need to not be punished by being the ones who would have to take a lower % rez (and we know the cleric's the one who's taking a necro rez if anyone in the group or a raid is). (I've also had to port out of GoD zones to go help clerics make the run, which basically means I'm bringing them back to their corpse, but taking a whole lot longer to do it.)

Clerics and Shaman wouldn't be able to get anywhere an invis cleric couldn't, so you wouldn't have the problem of a SoS rogue or FM bard dragging a CoH mage past content Sony wants us to fight.

A 15-20 minute timer would keep the Recall to Corpse AA from being abused, for example on Raids. It would inevitably get used at SOME point on a raid, but I don't think that's a huge problem. Druids don't usually survive a wipe as a necro might; and I can't recall the last time a druid was allowed to camp during a raid wipe. Guilds I've been with invariably call a single cleric or paladin to camp if anyone.

How about a cleric AA that makes them immune to xp loss upon death? That way they can die running back over and over and not worry...

I take that back... that's almost sadistic and bass-ackwards enough for SOE to actually do! 8P

best idea so far imo is modrod like thing.

Hmm, I am really struggling to feel sympathetic towards the clerics and those people on this board that argued so vehemently against rezzes being made more widely available the last time this topic came up. The basic logic for making rezzes more widely available hasn’t changed, it’s just that these groups that lacked the foresight to see what was coming, are now more inconvenienced than before. Poetic justice.

Cleric summonable norent nodrop (targetted summon a la modrod2) priest-only 5 charge 96% res stick with 30-second cast time, must equip (level 65 spell).Neat, just the thing to add to the inventory of the temp/virtue whores in PoK. And since you can store a "no rent" item indefinitely (including multiple copies, if you wanted), that idea will once and for all eliminate the need for resing clerics for most everything outside of GoD. It's the KEI mistake all over again.

Make it soulbound 8)

Also make it 6 charge instead of 5... in case of TPW!

Many ways to make a Modrod type item not abused. Make it Pal/ SK/ Dru/ Sha/ Cle/ Necro only, No Rent, No Drop and cost an essence emerald (or other costly component). That would pretty much guarantee it would not be taken lightly or abused since only someone with way too much plat would pay for an EE for a No Rent Item they didn't think they really needed. Only problem would be if you went LD which with the latest patches is a real possiblitity.

The other option is "Reincarnation". A buff type spell that brings you back to your corpse at zero exp but only lasts as long as the buff lasts. It could only be cast while the corpse is rezable. Once the buff expires they are teleported back to where they should be (if not rezed, bind spot. if rezed would stay where they are). That would let you bring back a cleric so they could raise themselves. It could bring them back in the form "illusion" of any mob in the zone (preferably animal or for Dru=wolf, Sha=Bear). Once rezed, they could click it off to lose the illusion. Since a buff type spell could be dispelled or clicked off.

Maybe a lower one about lv 55 with a one minute duration so clerics could rez themselves and a higher one at lv 65 with a 15 min duration so you could finish a trial without a cleric. This would do away with the % exp rez loss to clerics since they could rez themselves but wouldn't give Sha/Dru a rez since you would still need the cleric rez to get death exp back.

There doesn't really need to be an xp component, imo. Just give shamans the ability to make some sort of potion that yanks someone to their corpse. Honestly, it sounds more like a portable Mage COH, or an alternate version of the necro corpse summon. /Target corpse, "yank" player back to corpse.

Given those circumstances, and the game's previous precedents, maybe a spell version would be better suited to necros (if they want it), and then a potion from shamans. Since the "yank" wouldn't regain xp, there's no need to require an expensive reagent, keep it around the peridot or pearl level. Also, the corpse would still keep its rez timer, so if a cleric is able to rez later on, the player regains their 96% xp.

I don't think xp is the issue here - I mean, when at 65, do you really care about xp anymore? Most people are at 100% AAXP, and if you're close to losing 65, most just do a mad "xp-marathon" to bump back up to 50% into 65.

In the past, I always thought giving rez to druids or shaman was a bad idea because it would have detracted from the cleric's overall grouping desirability. However, as we've seen the cleric's monopoly on primary healing not only maintained but increased over the past two years, I'm inclined to believe the cleric class no longer needs a monopoly on rezzing to remain viable and attractive to groups.

Let's go for broke. I'd say enable druids and shaman to scribe the exact same rez spells as clerics, approximately 9 levels behind; so at 65th, a dru/shm would be able to scribe 'Reviviscence' (600 mana 96% exp). Clerics would maintain a marginal advantage in raiding and grouping desirability because their epic allows them unlimited mana-free rezzes which do not incur any extra downtime, but most clerics deny that the ability to rez gets them groups anyway.

BTW, it would appear that Sony's answer to this question comes in the form of itemization. Refer to:
Supreme Adventurer's Spirit (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=25969)
Mighty Adventurer's Spirit (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/item.html?id=25958)

In my opinion this is unfortunate, really. Players tend to find methods of exploiting clickable items in ways that classed spells could not possibly be misused, often forcing developers to either nerf or remove the items ... of course, the nerfs usually only occur after the top tier guilds have fully benefitted from the exploits and moved on.

~Firemynd

Another suggestion would make the rez for druids/shamans a GoD aa for priest classes. Maybe an extreme aa amount. Make it only usuable once every 24 hours. I have never been one to see druids/shamans get a rez ability but this was just an idea. At least this way it's not abused either.

how can a rez spell for druids or shaman be abused?

What I'm trying to say is that we are not a rezzing class/never have been. However if we were to get a timer type rez we would only use it in special circumstances, lets say on a raid where we need to get up and moving fast. Or the cleric in your group, lets say trials in KoD where we are not that desireable, dies and you need to get a rez in fast.

Having a rez that you would save for special circumstances also would alleviate the idea that we are taking something away from the Cleric class but would give us something a little more unique to our class that might make us a little more desireable but at the same time we would not be bombarded with tells from various people to run and rez someone.

Just to add keep in mind that at GoD stage in game, Clerics SHOULD have their epics and the epic by design is for rezzing even though many have something else in their inventory slot that has better stats. We are talking about getting something that Clerics quested for long and hard.

how can a rez spell for druids or shaman be abused?

A rez spell for shaman and druids would be difficult to abuse. Considering shaman and druids have zero way to drop off the aggro list without leaving the area (druids have succor but to use it means starting over from the dungeon entrance).

A rez type item would be easy to abuse. Imagine an SoS rogue with a Vox stick. Imagine a mage getting dragged to a safe spot, bypassing an insane amount of content (replace mage with necro in non-CoH zones). Wanna clear VT in an hour?

I'm not gong to advocate a rez for druids. But a Return to Corpse spell with the option to rez is acceptable to me.

Someone should ask the clerics. Maybe poll them with a question something like this.

If Druids and Shaman were given the ability to res, which res would you prefer them to have?

1. 0% exp res. Keeps clerics clearly in the lead for resses, but if a group has a cleric or pally, they would be the most likely to eat the exp loss.

2. 50% exp res. Closes the gap on resses, but leaves clerics clearly in the lead while cutting down on the pain of death for clerics.

3. 90% exp res. Even with Pallys, and very close to clerics. Leaves a bit of a gap, and only a hurts clerics a little bit.

4. 96% exp res. Leaves no res gap, but takes away any cleric advantage.

5. other. Some other option such as a res with no exp returned that doesn't kill the res timer, or a high exp return res with an expensive component, or a crafted/cleric summoned item that is usable by druids and shaman.


I think it would be interesting to see what clerics think on this matter.

As a cleric, the concern in this thread for clerics' feelings or sense of importance is a bit overblown. Maybe it's just me and my opinion isn't shared by many, but being a naked cleric on CR is no fun. Making and maintaining corpses with invis potions is no fun. Running from bank to potion merchant to wayfarer to dungeon is no fun. And most of all the pressure of doing all of the above with the group's success and time breathing down your neck is no picnic (it gets old after 400 days /played, trust me).

This isn't to draw any sympathy (once I'm totally burned out being a cleric I'm ready to switch), but to highlight that any means of bringing a player to their corpse doesn't need to involve how it will impact clerics. It will be an enormous benefit to clerics.

If no xp is involved there won't be an outcry. If xp is involved (making it a res), there'll be an outcry from those that feel druids already have too much. I don't think game design should be based on feelings.

Someone should ask the clerics. Maybe poll them with a question something like this.

5. other. Some other option such as a res with no exp returned that doesn't kill the res timer, or a high exp return res with an expensive component, or a crafted/cleric summoned item that is usable by druids and shaman.


I think it would be interesting to see what clerics think on this matter. Option 5 as 97% ress for 600m, no limits, 3 sec casting time at level 50 (though put it at 57 if need be).

Enjoy the ress requests :devil-lau.

That's evil...:)

Heh well lets don't get too outrageous. Dangrim you don't need to put words down that were not even mentioned. I actually liked my idea of an AA ability, but here is another one. How about a spell similar to wizards return to bind point but have it be a return to corpse? This way you could return a cleric to their corpse and then your party can be rezzed. This however would be only safe if you had someone there (rogue/fd'r )that knew it was safe to return that person back to the corpse. Wouldn't actually be a rez.

I have always been opposed to druids getting a rez...its not our job, and as far as GoD goes, many people try things in GoD that are seriously under equipped. GoD is not meant to be taken lightly, and people think omg i have a full set of ornate, i can succeed!! Sure you might be able to, but it will be rough and fail 100's of times, which is what fuels this desire to have a druid rez.

Giving us rez, might as well make one class with all abilities and take away any class diversity.

I agree the healing issue needs to be looked at. I will reiterate that I am against druids getting a rez ability. So..curious with all these topics on healing other than the hundreds of posts on healing woes, who is really looking into this?

I think the problem with "fixing" healing, is that its only "broken" in GoD. I can main heal in Elemental xp groups and down. It's hard to fix something without trivializing older content. 2 druids can heal AoW practically now.

New content invariably trivializes old content. There's a reason old content is old.

Moreover, there's little point in introducing new content if you are going to hamstring it trying to prevent old content from becoming trivial.

2 druids can heal AoW practically now.

WoW would I ever like to see the gear on the 2 druids that can take the place of the 3+ clerics in ch rotation and the 2+ druid on spam heals when our guild does AoW :p

WoW would I ever like to see the gear on the 2 druids that can take the place of the 3+ clerics in ch rotation and the 2+ druid on spam heals when our guild does AoW :p
You'd be looking in the wrong place. Instead of looking at the Druids doing the healing, look at the Warrior going up against AoW. 13 - 15k HP (no idea what the current top HPs are these days with GoD AA and Tribute), all Defensive AA and other stuff. When you're dealing with a tank like this, encounters get much easier on the healers.

Edit: It goes without saying that the healers DO require a certain level of gear to still pull this off. Mana Regen and a good Mana Pool are important. But my point is that the Tank is just as important, and probably more so, when trying to pull off something like this.

WoW would I ever like to see the gear on the 2 druids that can take the place of the 3+ clerics in ch rotation and the 2+ druid on spam heals when our guild does AoW

It isn't that druid heals are really good. It's more that warriors mitigate so much better since SoV. Warriors just don't take any damage from old content mobs.

Moreover, there's little point in introducing new content if you are going to hamstring it trying to prevent old content from becoming trivial.

I disagree. There's plenty of innovative ways to introduce new content without increasing the player's power beyond that which they've already attained. Unfortunately, far too many people equate new content with new, bigger, better toys instead of new storylines and events to experience. *shrugs*

2 druids can heal AoW practically now.

I call BS. The simple fact is that nothing mods KR to make it remotely fast enough for this and SI is too inefficienct to chain cast in place of KR for a whole AoW fight... unless of course you mean with a whole group of necros mana-feeding them and a few bards seranading them... and some click sticks... and a few 12k elemental guild tanks as MA with maxxed regen then sure.

Dear SOE - Greystone is a cleric who has masked himself as a druid. He doesnt want rez because he already has it and he regularly solo's Sleeper. Please nerf him - or take away his bear.

take away his bear

Now that's would be crossing the line. Booboo stays!

Given enough weaponshield rangers I bet two druids would be enough...:)

I call BS. The simple fact is that nothing mods KR to make it remotely fast enough for this and SI is too inefficienct to chain cast in place of KR for a whole AoW fight...

You clearly don't realise just how little damage a top tank will take from a mob like AoW these days.

As a similar comparison I remember not too long ago I was part of a raid on the Emperor of Ssra for people's twinks. When we first fought him we needed a 3s CH rotation to keep the tank alive, and even then we sometimes lost one. When we redid it for twinks we used a 6s rotation and the tank never got below about 40% health (and that was only when the Emperor procced on him) so we could have healed even slower.

GoD named do massively more DPS than the AoW does these days. AoW is more comparable to something like an Ikkinz non named (but with a lot more hp).

Okay, I decided that druids and bards should get res, since we kill the most people with trains = )

I disagree. There's plenty of innovative ways to introduce new content without increasing the player's power beyond that which they've already attained. Unfortunately, far too many people equate new content with new, bigger, better toys instead of new storylines and events to experience. *shrugs*

how ?

Okay, I decided that druids and bards should get res, since we kill the most people with trains = )Um... bard res? It blinks so you have to hit "accept" quick and just at the right time!

"Darn! Lag made me miss that res! Can you play it again?"

Dirge of the Lost Soul. It's easy enough to come up with storyline reasons why any caster class should be able to cast a ressurrection spell. Bards sing a song that aids the lost soul in finding their way back to the realm of the living. Wizards tear a hole in the planar fabric, allowing the PC to traverse the distance between them and their corpse. I could care less if my druid got rez. It's not a high priority for me, but I can see the need in GoD trials to provide some means of recovering after a 5 hour trial and dying at the last moment.

Dirge of the Lost Soul. It's easy enough to come up with storyline reasons why any caster class should be able to cast a ressurrection spell. Bards sing a song that aids the lost soul in finding their way back to the realm of the living. Wizards tear a hole in the planar fabric, allowing the PC to traverse the distance between them and their corpse. I could care less if my druid got rez. It's not a high priority for me, but I can see the need in GoD trials to provide some means of recovering after a 5 hour trial and dying at the last moment.

I agree 100% with what Aly says. Fluff and background will sort itself out (and let's not even begin to talk about how much worrying about it now is closing the barn door after the horse, drogmor, and griffawn have left), but there is a clear and obvious problem, not with class balance per se, but with the playability of GoD trials. With the extremely limited availability of rez and the extremely demanding nature of many GoD trials (which limits the ability to bring in, say, a paladin for 90% rezzes, even assuming that the participants are willing to take 90%), it's now clear that lacking cleric rez is not an option. It is rediculous to spend 4 hours on a trial to have to quit because the cleric got aggro, died, and nobody can rez them to their corpse.

GoD has a legion of poor design decisions (respawn in instanced dungeons? Uh... duuuuuumb), but this is the one that is most actively screwing with many people who would like to be enjoying this expansion. It needs to be fixed.

Personally, I think GoD makes the imbalance between druids and clerics, which has existed since the beginning to time, obvious. However, I am a deep advocate of class distinctiveness. Trying to become clerics in leather will not serve druids, and so while I feel druids need to have their healing upgraded to support the demands put on it in BoT, Hard LDoN, and GoD (for the bazaar, raid, and Time/GoD druid, respectively), giving druids rez is not the answer to either the Not Enough Rez problem or the Clerics Beat Up Druids And Take Their Lunch Money problem.

Personally i think people misconstrue (Spelling) what GoD is supposed to be. REspawn in instance dungeons, INSANE dps on mobs, this is a high end expansion, not meant for people in NToV/VT guilds. Sounds elitest thing to say but its the truth. My guild is time flagged, and we getting spanked in Kod Taz, just like most other guilds. This is not a expansion for the casual gamer, its hardcore tough crap, ment to keep you on your toes.

PoP especially when they opened up zones to not needing flags (hoh, bot) took any skill out of playing a character. You just sat and could half-ass play your character and get to 65. With GoD, you have to know what you are doing, and how to do it, if not you die and have a PITA corpse run.

We don't need a rez, or new heals, people just need to know what they are doing, and be in groups that are the same. Unfortunately GoD took a lot of just hanging with the friends xp'ing outta the game.

The thing is.. most players don't enjoy PITA. That means that the majority just don't want to go to GoD (I've seen this already). What follows is the same old story.. stuff gets nerfed to make it less cumbersome and people start to actually enjoy it.

Now maybe what I say next will invalidate what I've said in your eyes, but I've been to GoD a total of.. three times now I think. I hated it every time. Was countless deaths with zero reward. Nothing but frustration. I went with guildies and we are time enabled so we know what we're doing. There is a small percentage of players that enjoy that frustration, dying, and difficulty. I'm not one of them. I enjoy a challenge, but mindless CRs and wasted time are not fun to me.

Personally i think people misconstrue (Spelling) what GoD is supposed to be. REspawn in instance dungeons, INSANE dps on mobs, this is a high end expansion, not meant for people in NToV/VT guilds. Sounds elitest thing to say but its the truth.

I don't think that sounds elitist at all. It's absolutely true -- GoD was designed to challenge even the highest end guilds, and was most definitely not designed for the majority of players.. i.e. folks with gear mostly from bazaar, ToV, and low/mid-tier PoP.

SOE was on target with this expansion. Elemental/Time guilds have really needed more content for quite some time. I'm sure it's been frustrating for them, not having anything very challenging to raid between waiting for upper named spawns and doing repetitive flagging events.

However..... most of the people with complaints about GoD *are* in upper tier guilds. They don't like the tedious CRs and extra downtime, and the only ones who don't see it as a problem are the minority of players who ascribe to the old Vision -- who think "death=fun" and "timesinks=immersion".

Another complaint we're seeing a lot concerns class balance issues, evident by trials which reward groups for using two clerics in both primary/backup healer roles, instead of having encounters designed to at least accomodate (if not promote) the use of cleric+shm/dru. Many are disappointed that Sony went for the same ol' mudflation tactics to reflect increased diffculty. Once again they've fallen back on the same formula -- mobs that are immune to slows (strike shaman), immune to runspeed changes (strike druids), and hit so hard that a lag spike at the wrong time can totally hose 4+ hours of otherwise flawless execution.

GoD encounters are regretfully not designed to allow the other two priest classes to use their own strengths to compensate for what they lack in raw healing-per-second. Unless SOE makes some (very unlikely) changes, druids and shaman will once again have to be carried on the coattails of clerics for at least the last half of this expansion.... and not until they're fully equipped from the topmost loot tables in GoD, will they be able to perform as primary healers. It's a shame Sony's developers aren't creative and imaginative enough to create content in which all three priests can do well from the get-go.

As for the tedium of multiple CRs and all the other timesinks of GoD, I'm sure all of that was 100% intentional. Artificial timesinks have ALWAYS been VI/SOE's primary method of keeping players from consuming content too rapidly.

~Firemynd

Another complaint we're seeing a lot concerns class balance issues, evident by trials which reward groups for using two clerics in both primary/backup healer roles, instead of having encounters designed to at least accomodate (if not promote) the use of cleric+shm/dru

That's exactly the problem. People always choose the easiest way to complete trials and that is cleric, cleric, warrior, enc, wiz, wiz.
Sure you can sub a druid for cleric but it isn't as productive and has a double risk:

(1) cleric dies deep inside dungeon (could even be linkdead related and has NOTHING to do with knowing how to play.)
(2) druid just doesn't heal fast enough and risks a wipe.

Giving a res to more classes wouldn't solve problem (2) but it still makes the content less frustrating without ruining the challange.

Removing repops in GoD would make GoD much easier and would solve many class balance problems but there has to be another approch than that. Maybe (but I hope not) this is what Sony will choose to make GoD more attractive.

I'm sure they are loosing customers cause they are 'burned out' of GoD already and with recent problems (DX9, login issues) it makes it even worse.

Never forget, this is a game, we play to have fun and not to be frustrated.