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I know why clerics hate us, but why all the hate from Wizards?

There are lots of threads on Graffe's like this, but that one above really bothered me this morning - asking for a sow-dispell? Grrrrr....

Well in the case of Whizbang, he has always had a bug up his @#%$ about Druids.

My guess is some druid wouldn't sow him or took a mob he wanted and he has been bitching and moaning about druids ever since ever.

Many high end Wizards seem to be very arrogant and think their @#%$ don't stink. Many of the bitches they have about Druids their own class is guilty of.

My guess is that we compete for similar quad mobs and that we have it easier at lower (high- I meant lower) levels. They conveniently forget how nice they have it at high levels.

I for one do not support the MB nerf, except for the "Prick" wizards.

Wizards can thank their fellow team manaburn wizards for this nerf. It's 100 % housemade.
And Whizbang is irrelevant, just another idiot ;)

The same sort of wizard who solo quad kites his way to 60 keeps running into exactly the same type of person playing a druid doing exactly the same type of thing.

They compete for spawn.

They act like the children they are.

They translate this into "I hate wazards" or "I hate druids"

They hate us because they have Real Ultimate Power (http://chuma.cas.usf.edu/~dking3/real_ultimate_power.htm).

Too bad the druid spoof was there first =p

hehe I think that post is kind of funny

Everytime they nerf manaburn Gore kills a wolf form druid ;p

Cute.

psssst...it is not just clerics and wizards!

/jk :)

Why do wizards hate us so much?

Penis envy

:evil: @ this thread :mad:

I'm asking that everyone click the link and read page two of the thread.


No need to reply. In fact, I don't think it would be wise to.


Just notice that almost every poster with more than five posts on his account is telling this guy to go play in traffic. Very refreshing.

I used to be ks'd by wizards when I was a wee druid (1999 or so) but I never really hated them or felt that I was hated by them. Still don't.

There are Aholes in every class and you all know you seperate the wheat from the chaff on any board you read.

Play on
Thistlewood

I guess asking for a sow debuff won't make the shammies, rangers, or Beastlords happy with them either.
I love it when they pick on a skill about 4 other classes in EQ have, like Quadding or porting, hehe, show's you what kind of wall they look at trying to convince you how vast their vision is.
Life is so funny, and sad :P

Ciao for now!

What I find really amusing considering all hate and belittlement thrown at druids on the various Graffe boards is the sheer hypocrisy of some of their regular posters.

This is especially true in the whining department. We supposedly have this reputation as whiners but go and browse some of the endless threads regarding the availability of Suntrike and other high end wizzy nukes for temper tantrums and moaning that puts to shame anything ever posted on the DG.

Heck, a lot of wizards even look down on their fellow wizards. Some of them actually think it's a good thing that most high level wizards have a horrendous time obtaining their end-game nukes like EER and GSS. Apparently, if you're a wizard not in a Tier One guild and/or part of the "elite" then you haven't earned it. I can't imagine anyone at DG espousing such a prima donna attitude for a druid spell like Moonfire etc.

Who cares? I could give a crap about what anyone outside my guild thinks of me. Wizard, cleric or any other class.. it really doesn't phase me. *shrug*

I seriously doubt the nerf has anything to do with Kunark dragons. Come on, take 2 seconds to think about it, the wizards obviously haven't but we're druids, we're 10 times smarter and so many times cuter I don't have the fingers to count that high!

Soon a couple level 65s will be able to smack the kunark dragons around with no problem what so ever. Hell, a 65 warrior and a 65 cleric duo will be able to kill any kunark dragon. Anyone that believes VI's Kunark dragon explanation... I got a bridge to sell ya.

Think of it, PoP mana pools are probably going up, mana burn gets more powerful and some uber guilds already field over 6 MB wizards occasionally. With 10 wizards any mob starts the fight with 100k less hps than VI designed it to. Any mob with 300k or less hps is a target of "Team Manaburn" with no risk and little time. If VI wants short fights that means lower HPs on the boss mobs which is impossible to do with manaburn around.

I also suspect a big part of it is that it's unresistable. I think with PoP we're going to see high resists on mobs again. Back to PLing your runtling ranger to AM3 EQ.

Strongest guild on my server takes 12 MB wizards to some raids.

It is DEFNITELY about bigger stuff than Gore or Trak that this is being made. That is the scape goat. A real problem, but there was a better fix that would have solved Team Manaburn.

I suggested at one point that MB be turned into a short duration dot. Any duration at all woudl be enough to get all the dresswearers in the MB team dead, whether the mob dies or not. And yet (esp with dot stacking) the raid value of MB would have remained untouched.

They had ways to fix the Kunark poaching problem. Hell they could have made Kunark dragons immune to MB. Of all the mobs in the game, these early raid targets SHOULD be beaten without MB. With MB it takes like 5 seconds to kill Trak. Without it maybe 10?

This fix is about having boss mobs with lower hp in the expansion, pure and simple.

I see a double standard here in some viewpoints. Why is it ok to be able to MB Kunark mobs, when some people treat those mobs as epic or big as the ones some of the more uber guilds are doing? Would you uber guilds find it acceptable if a handful of people were taking down the mobs you wanted to do for pieces or loot?

Yeah, its only Kunark, but not everyone plays at the same level. Just the simple idea that a handful of Pharmers, because thats what they are, are KS'ing mobs that it takes others a full guild of 30 to do, an hour to prep is just silly. The fact that the power of MB would only have grown over time is even more absurd in its design. Personally, i think the solution was a good one. Its still effective, but not overpowering.

People don't like druids for a number of reasons:

to name a few...

...until recently druids were not overly effective at the important things.
-keeping people alive was difficult because our heals sucked
-doing damage was difficult because we have no way to avoid getting killed from aggo (still not fixed, we are one of only a couple of classes w/o at least a short-term "DA")

...jealosy. the simple fact is that druids can solo most of their way from 1-60, and don't need to go LFG all the time

...numbers. there are way too many druids. something in the way the instruction book describes the classes makes druids extra-desirable to play. i can't remember why i started a druid, but I know it was based solely on the descriptions in the instruction manual (circa early/mid 1999)

...prick druids. people don't like wizards for this reason either. most, if not all, of the druids that regularly visit the grove and actively partake in the discussions here do not fall under this category, but as the saying goes, "a few bad apples destroys the bunch". because the druid class is relatively easier to solo with (arguable easier than wizard, due to the fact we can actually heal ourselves out of trouble sometimes) there are drudis out there that only solo. they don't care what other people think about them, and they have a reputation for training zone-lines, and making things difficult on others.




........on the other hand, things are slowly starting to change. The new heal has completely changed our class. There is a new found respect for durids on our raids, to the point that when looking to see how many healers we have to know if we can actually accomplish something, more than a few people are pointing out that we do indeed have enough for a 425 Dain, despite only having one cleric. A cleric told me just 3 days ago when I told her that she should not CH if I had already called that I was in the process of doing it (waste of her mana) "No offence, but I don't trust the new druid heal." Well, her mind was totally changed when I saved HER @#%$ with a TR that landed for 2500+.

Wizards might hate use because they have been traditionally grouped with us on raids in the past so we can keep them alive, although this was impossible because if a wizard aggroed on somethign that hit harder than a fire beetle they'd instantly die, and even our 2.5 second (with focus) crappy chloroblast spell wasn't going to land on them before their deaths.

Wizards don't hate druids, wizards hate clueless dr00ds who KS ("a_druid01 tells you, 'Your snare doesn't last too long, does it?'"), train, beg people to finish quads because they run oom, etc. Generally speaking, druids have been one of the most popular classes because they can be soloed 1-60 with very little risk, which meant that a wizard was more likely to meet a stupid druid than any other class because the two classes frequent the same spots later in life. There's also a certain mentality around druids rarely getting nerfed and having almost all of their spells available at 60. It isn't logical and everyone's aware that individual wizards are just as bad as druids, some people just like to joke about it.

Rarely getting nerfed? LOLOLOLOL. No other class has been nerfed more than us, are you freaking joking?

I didn't say that it was true, I said that there's a mentality around it. There are also plenty of 60 druids without Moonfire or NR so I thought the implication was obvious. I do, however, feel the need to dispute this statement:

No other class has been nerfed more than us, are you freaking joking?

This is one of those attitude things some wizards get pissy over. I personally believe warriors have suffered the most over the past two years. Every new piece of monk equipment and every increase in knight taunting ability slowly chipped away at the warrior role until knights were commonly used as tanks in VT and monks were an infinitely better choice for xp groups than warriors. Before that, necros were whacked harder than anyone else with the nerf bat.

I should also point out that wizards resent druids who insist that druids should nuke as well as wizards plus have all the utility that druids currently have.

I myself don't have Moonfire, and all caster classes have expensive high-end spells to buy(unless they in effect win the lottery and get one to drop). I say this because I was just over at the wizard board and some of the things they complain about are inherent in all caster classes.

I for one do NOT want to take away anybody else's "gimmick". I think people have to realize that druids don't have one though, that's why we get pissy about being second best at every thing. I'm tired of hearing about utility. VI was wrong from the start to make a class that didn't have at least one niche(which would be druids). I want something to be the best at, not second-best! That's how you make a class desirable, give them a role. VI screwed that up from the get-go. Instead of making other classes good or the best at 2 or 3 things(except druids) they should have spread it around a little more.

I have a warrior and while they have been pushed aside and ignored they haven't had the actual physical nerfs that some other classes have received. Granted, with all the boosts that hybrids have gotten I think they were kind of left in the dust but their inherent skills were left more or less untouched. They got screwed by everyone else(meaning hybrids) getting benefits while they themselves were blown off, not so much by having things taken away.

I also have a necro and we must be playing a different game because I don't remember much in the way of nerfs against that class. Please refresh my memory on them.

I laugh at the wizards. I told them this would happen with their MB teams, and gloating over their new uber power.

They didn't want to learn from the Necro example.

Besides, 70% of the regular posters on Graffe's are anti-druid jaggoffs.

No sympathy.

As much as every single druid I've seen discuss this topic wants to repudiate the utility his/her class has, the utility remains. You may not like having more abilities than any other class but you chose your lot knowing exactly what abilities would be available. You're right, druids don't have a gimmick. You still do excellent dot damage, decent nuking damage and have a good buff line particularly at 60. You might as well have the best DS. You now have CH. Wizards have none of this so I'm sure you can understand that they'd be somewhat annoyed to have a druid asking for better nukes.

Good to see that you bought Verant's line regarding the MB nerf, Aidon. I think Whizbang said it best: "I happen to adore druids. I just have a problem with idiots."

I've been exp'ing in UP alot lately and to be honest, I hate druids now hehe. There are invariably 20-25 Elysian loot whore, training idiots, whiping out whole exp groups on a regular basis, claiming entire regions of the zone so they can pull through that region, never grouped before in my entire life half @#%$ druids out there that I honestly can't blame other classes. Most druids suck it seems. Not all but probablly the greater part.

Aidon, I love your posts over there. I think just seeing your pictures sets steam from some of their ears lol

We probably get more morons in our class because it's easy to play. But that still doesn't mean you lump everyone together, just like you wouldn't in RL no matter how many bad apples you find.

I think a lot of classes get down on us and think we whine the most because we're the red-headed step-child of the classes. We don't have anything we excel at so we want something else, but the other classes don't want to "share" their specialty so they feel threatened when druids start looking around for some other spells or skills to help define us. Try looking at it from our standpoint for once, or play a druid up to 60 and see what I mean. It might be easy in a lot of ways but it's also very frustrating and tedious, especially when you have to cross your fingers every patch and hope VI doesn't see you. An image of the eye of Sauron zooming in on Frodo when he puts the ring on and then passing over when he takes it off comes to mind. :mad:

Tuved, I agree.


I've been up there for three nights now, maybe 15 horus total trying to get a farging tunic.


I have seen more druidic idiocy in that one spot in 15 hours than over my last six months of playing.


I mean, how frikken hard is it to bind at the zone, gate when you are in trouble and zone before the train lands on anyone else?


Not to mention that a druid who doesn't have their head up their arse can handle three of those skellies on a pull. Takes a long time to do it, but that is no excuse for ruining things for others.

We probably get more morons in our class because it's easy to play. But that still doesn't mean you lump everyone together, just like you wouldn't in RL no matter how many bad apples you find.

That doesn't seem to stop Aidon from lumping all wizards together as greedy, druid-hating bastards.

I think a lot of classes get down on us and think we whine the most because we're the red-headed step-child of the classes. We don't have anything we excel at so we want something else, but the other classes don't want to "share" their specialty so they feel threatened when druids start looking around for some other spells or skills to help define us. Try looking at it from our standpoint for once, or play a druid up to 60 and see what I mean. It might be easy in a lot of ways but it's also very frustrating and tedious, especially when you have to cross your fingers every patch and hope VI doesn't see you.

First of all, you think you're the red-headed stepchild (it's a bad thing). I'm still curious as to how you've suffered more than any other class due to nerfs. I play a bard; do you have any idea how much fun it is to be broken every time there's a patch? Do you really think that any other class doesn't try to avoid the nerf bat as well?

Other classes don't want to share their speciality because they DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE. You come close to the #1 in most areas (1 point off in DS, your fire nuke is as efficient as Sunstrike). No, you don't have the same DPS as a wizard...but why should you?

Besides, 70% of the regular posters on Graffe's are anti-druid jaggoffs.

Actually, it's more like 25%, and the other 75% just laugh at what they post. Seriously, wizards hate druids about as much as warriors hate monks. It's a joke that's been going on for the last 4 years almost. Some people just don't get the joke.

Honestly, there shouldn't be any hard feelings about things said between "rival" classes. It's like those people that argue fords are better than chevy's, or vice versa. It's all in good fun, until someone takes it seriously.

I don't hate druids at all, I dislike idiots and I dislike dr00ds. I have alot of druid friends and I feel druids do contribute alot to most (if not all) situations.

/wave druids

We have suffered more from than other classes with nerfs from my experience. Bards may get screwed in patches but not from nerfs, they get it from the morons at VI who don't know how to code. Bards may get "broken" with a lot of patches but it's not because someone sets out to "dumb them down", it's more from incompetence on VI's part than anything else.

Some of the other classes DO have more than one specialty, that's part of the problem like I said. I'm not saying that those classes should share them, I said try to understand why some druids say the things they do and why people react certain ways. I want our own "thing", although I can't think of anything that hasn't been done already. Some classes(like the priest classes other than druids) shouldn't have gotten so many specialty spells/skills that they are the best at. That's my personal view on it. Clerics and shamans are the best at 2 or 3 different things while we are the best at none. It's an inherent flaw in the game design and isn't a point you can easily argue against. I'm not talking about greed or taking away from another class so much as there was a problem right from the start with how the druid class was defined. It's based on the game being screwed up as a whole fundamentally, so I don't see what point you are arguing Kaisann.

I hate 75% of the druid and wizard kiters in ME. I hate idiots that can egress training the zone ever 10 minutes with 15 mobs... I hate wizards that run by with 10+ mobs, kill 4-5-6 and then leave the rest in the middle of the quad field. I REALLY hate druids that charm wolves out of my pulls.

More and more I wish I'd played red. :( I've taken as much as a proactive response as I can though. Want one of my mobs? Well, how about the other 3 too just for fun :) Can't control the 10-15 mobs you are kiting/training me with and your almost dead, opps, did I just dispell them, gah, I meant to help you nuke them down. I'll shout for a rez for you... *hits ignore and watches TV*

Not everyone deserves that, hell we all have bad days or chit happens, but I've been seeing more and more the same idiots day after day training me over and over. Figure eventually they will think its do dangerous in the zone and leave. If not, atleast is slows down the trains for a bit :)

Kaisann, I made my druid before 60 existed, I had no idea the end game was going to be like it is or that I was a "utility' class.

Exactly Tillien, if you all are going to whine about the Druids in UP, you might as well whine about the Wizzies in ME. To be honest, i rarely see Druids quading here out in the open, but everytime i swing by i see at least 1 Wizzy running trains all over the place.

It goes both ways.

We have suffered more from than other classes with nerfs from my experience.

I'm still wondering where you get this statement from. What specifically has been nerfed that makes you worse off than a warrior?

Some of the other classes DO have more than one specialty, that's part of the problem like I said. I'm not saying that those classes should share them, I said try to understand why some druids say the things they do and why people react certain ways. I want our own "thing", although I can't think of anything that hasn't been done already. Some classes(like the priest classes other than druids) shouldn't have gotten so many specialty spells/skills that they are the best at. Clerics and shamans are the best at 2 or 3 different things while we are the best at none. It's an inherent flaw in the game design and isn't a point you can easily argue against.

It's an easy point to dispute because Clerics are the third most specialized class in the game after warriors and wizards. They heal and rez, and that's basically it. I agree that shamen have a good deal of power, but they're only The Best at debuffing and slowing. Basically, by requesting better nukes you're punishing wizards for the power given to necros and shamen. I personally believe you should be given a WD upgrade, but I still don't think you should have one that's better than Funeral Pyre.

Funny thing is, Druids SHOULDN'T be the best at any one thing. They are the most functional class out there.

I have no problems with druids, as a whole. But, you can solo earlier, and solo usually better than a wizard can.

I haven't seen any wizards soloing in UP the few times I have been there, but there are always 4-5 druids in the zone harvesting away.

Most of them were extremely cool. If a No Drop item fell, and they couldn't use it, they would /shout the zone.

Druids get the 2nd best set of DoTs in the game, are probably 2nd best at nuking, 2nd best at DS, 2nd best at healing, are one of only 2 classes that can port (with better locations than the wizard, and the only downside is no TL), one of only 4 classes that can SoW, have great AC buffs, regen ability, and the only part of your epic that doesn't consistently drop is from the Reavers.

Your class defnining skill IS your ability to do so much so well.

What more do you want? A pet that is better than the mage epic?

And yes, I have played a druid.

Garylian

Exactly Tillien, if you all are going to whine about the Druids in UP, you might as well whine about the Wizzies in ME.

Actually I think there are more poor druids than poor wizards. UP is just a circus freak show now. Every 10min there's some gimp shouting to zone that he'd sell his own mother for an elysian BP while 4 other druids run around like chickens with their heads cut off with 5 massive stone guardians chasing them.

In nexus there are invariably 5-10 druids whoring themselves off as a taxi service. I almost never see a shout from a wizard that he's porting for plat.

I love the druid class but lots of players give it a bad name.

Not to mention that a druid who doesn't have their head up their arse can handle three of those skellies on a pull. Takes a long time to do it, but that is no excuse for ruining things for others.

:) Got my tunic from a pull like that. Excitement followed by thrill. It was a good night. I was just glad I had a KEI.

I have to agree with Tuved, as I play on Bristlebane server, too. There are druids in UP that are disgustingly bad. At any given time there are about 4-8 level 40-50 druids running up and down the zone wall in UP scavenging any rotting elysian. Training groups in the name of kiting and having the nerve to get angry at the group when they start attacking the skelly that has the nerve to start attacking them after its been run right through their midst.

I am not the best druid and not the worst. I try to know my limitations and either get better or get out of the way of the rest of the players who are trying to have fun.

What everyone needs to realize is there are two totally different types of people playing druid characters. There are the druids. They made the class with levels 1-50 in mind (levels the druid shines in). Level 50+ came later and they would like to group now cause it is a multiplayer game. makes sense. I love these people and in reality they make up at least 80% of the population.

Now as the the other type DROODS. yes I know many of you hate the term--realize it probably does not apply to you. DROODS are the ones who make port taxis only to make money, who are min/max types and could care less about balancing and only want more for their class. Droods are the ones who never think about getting in a group later so dont care that they are ruining their rep by training people. They live for the cheap fast exp today and could care less about the consequences they will have tomorrow in finding a group. (Grouping druids will be very careful to not ruin their reps this way) Every class has some with this mentality. Seems druids are the only ones with a specific name--although cleric bot comes close to same function (ie logged on to make money from rez or to rez players main character) The disadvantage druids have is that these DROODS are so much more visible than other classes losers. Take a cleric for example. A cleric who screws up a pull will probably only kill himself--he doesnt have the mobility to drag over other people and would not be pulling multiple mobs that a group could not handle anyway. When a DROOD messes up a quad pull, many people get hurt. Or consider a selfish monk--even if he kills as many mobs as a DROOD, he will be pulling them one at a time which lets other people hopefully get a chance to grab one. A DROOD who quad pulls in a crowded zone will be noticed cause they have four mobs while others have none. I have never seen anyone get mad at a druid who is root-dotting, because people only see that druid as taking one mob then.

What everyone needs to realize is that the DROOD is often not the main character of the person playing. If it was they would be more worried about their rep. Druids do care about their rep--so judge the individual not the class, because chances are that DROOD's main is actually a warrior, cleric, enchanter etc>

Wizards could solo in UP on the same mobs we do but what would be the point? Is it druids fault that the only mobs in UP that don't summon drop druid gear? It's an oversight on VI's part that should have been corrected months ago (I can say that because I have a full set of Elysian). Only problem is Wizards would try to quad the Elysian's and train everyone 10 times more than the druids could. I spent a few weeks in UP and at least on Drinal it wasn't druids training each other or anyone else but the full groups that thought plopping themselves in the middle of the druid corner and training the root dotters with every type of mob in the zone was downright hilarious.

Are there some bad druids yes but there are bad players in every class druids run into the bad wizards as often as wizards run into the bad druids. Most of the times they run into each other and just start pointing fingers :)

As for us being the most nerfed it's relative. Druids don't get nerfed by having things taken out of the game we get nerfed by having our very few class skill handied out to every other class on a regular basis, as well as class specific items being made all/all or all priest.

I saw this guy in plate running around with 20 toilers in tow. He wasn't training them ... Seems he was killing them. A druid can quad, but swarm kiting is a whole another league. Nothing druids can touch.

Oh ... There wasn't anything left to kill in ME that night. So I went to AC and found a group.

I do have one reply to bam though. If you think clerics have several specialties, what are they. We have better healing aye. Our buffs are a little better (unless you are a caster and want mana regen). We have res.(so do pallies and necs) currently your healing is half of ours--our solo is not half of yours. We dont have half the sow speed, half the ports, half the ds etc. I wont get into it cause I really dont care. I say get better healing who cares but if you want to be more specialized (ie depth)--there is a tradeoff--you would lose generalization (ie width).


You know what? Most of us clerics are happy with the nerf to CH. Now they can quit holding that over our head so much. We would probably actually trade it down more if they would give us abilities in other areas. We were always told us we were too good in one area (ie depth) to get good in others (ie width) You have the abilities in every area. Ok we are best in 2 areas. You are 2nd best in like 10 areas. Trade away about 6 of those 2nd best areas and push for more specialization in 4 of them. The problem with being able to do everything is it gets hard to do any one thing very well.

I know my druid would happily trade in every solo skill and super utility (ie quad nukes, ports, SOW, snare etc) and just drastically increase my healing and nuking. make my buff equal to clerics but in somewhat different way such as mine adds mana regen or includes ds for same price as just buff.

Then cleric is better at healing. Wizard is best at nuke. Druid is right behind both. maybe 80% - 85% of each. Not as good as the primary in each situation but right behind them. It is hard to be at 80% in 10 different areas though. You have to give up something to get the specialization.

2nd best can be good enough if it is a close 2nd best. But to get a close 2nd best in 3-4 areas means not being 2nd best in 10 areas. There has to be a trade off. Verant made the same mistake with druids that they made with clerics. They gave clerics CH so therefore they already have enough. They gave druids way too many abilities so they could not justify keeping them up close enough to what they need to be. They need clerics to have more realistic healing and they need druids to have less abilities so that they can justify the remaining abilities being better. A jack of all trades has no place in EQ anymore. EQ is a game of specialization right now. If you want to be a specialist it requires sacrificing the overall abilities.

Time for you guys to do like the clerics are doing with CH. We say fine take away some of our CH so that we have a chance to get x in return. You need to say take away x number of our abilities and make us much better in these certain abilities (ie buffs, nukes, heals). Trade in your wide arrange of abilities and specialize. I think for the grouping druids among you it would pay.

You can flame me if you want. This was not meant to be a troll message. I merely wanted to point out that it is your whole general overall use which is screwing you in the endgame. Verant messed up when they gave you too many abilities to start with. It was balanced in the beginning but now that overall wealth of too many abilities is preventing you from getting upgrades. Better to have fewer abilities and be much better at them. That is what endgame seems to require.

For some reason you have missed the point repeatedly. I don't want nukes as good or better than a wizard. That also goes for the person that asked "what more do I want"? I will make the point one last time: druids were screwed up from day one. No class should be set up to be second best at everything. Being decent at a bunch of things should not define a class and if the retards at Verant had thought about it they would have come to that conclusion also. Every class should have something it excels at. I can't get any simpler than that. VI designed the druid class wrong right from the start. You shouldn't make a class in a MMORPG that doesn't have a defined niche, period.

I base my observations about the nerfs on having played a druid since the game went live. I know what has been taken away from us compared to other classes. From what I have seen we had more taken back or away then any other class so far. I know for a fact that was the case for the first 6-12 months that the game was out.

You missed cleric HP/AC buffs. They excel at that, which makes 3 things. Shamans have their stat buffs and dots(necros are around the same level with dots I suppose).

But what do they do about druids now? I'm not sure, without taking away from another class. Why shouldn't that happen though? If one class has a monopoly on something or a dearth of things they excel at then why shouldn't the druid class get one of those? Before you go berserk, I mean these questions rhetorically. Maybe it means taking something away from druids to balance and make up for the gain, I don't know. I do know that druids were broken since the game was first conceived though.

You and I are in agreement then Bam. They broke druids from the start. Your buffs should be equal to clerics. Make the variety in that druid buffs increase mana regen and cleric buffs increase hps or something-but overall each would be about equal.


Then druids trade in some abilities to get increased effectiveness in their remaining abilities. Keep the group friendly utilities (ie ports, SOW, snare) We all know the end game is about specializing. Better to trade in some convenience utilities and solo ability to improve your group and raid performance. And then the next time someone tries to deny you improvements they could not point to the now gone abilities and claim them as reason for not granting improvements.

The druids were actually fine until Kunark came out. The extra utility spells and solo ability were worth doing a little less in the groups. Starting with Kunark, SOV, SOL and now POP though, the focus has went to end game being specialization. With POP, druids are going to have to get healing much closer to clerics to stand a chance in a group as main healer and closer to wizards in terms of nuking. And realistically there are only two ways to do that. Give clerics much more breath of abilities (ha ha fat chance) or limit druids/shaman in breath (sp) of abilities. I honestly see the future for druids as being one of more specialization and far less general utility.

But I have been wrong many times before. Hope I am again cause playing both classes I would like my druid to get good healing and still keep her fun general skills and just have good general skills added to my cleric.

There arent many things from a druids arsenal id really really want. track would be nice, and harmony.
Those are the only things i can come up with on the top of my head that i have missed. Sure heals would be nice but i mean, if you give wiz heals you might as well give em to warriors as well. same with track i guess :)

IMO the wizard class as it is now is as it should be, we do what we should do: massive damage.

I sure as hell dont envy the druids their raid role of spot healer or whatever they do. Sure if there are 6 druids on a raid some might nuke but theyll never outdamage the wiz anyway.

So nah i dont hate you =) Youre good to have.

Firion Sorcerer Vazaelle

I wouldn't dare take away the best nuking from wizards to give to druids because that's all they really have. I'm actually on the wizards side when it comes to whether or not you have been screwed by VI because you have. I have a few wizard friends and I know they have gone through as much frustration and heartache from being disregarded for grouping and raids as druids until the more recent changes. I know that wizards are one of the classes that have got the short end of the stick so don't claim I want your nukes because I never said anything even close to that. I think you must have seen that in another post Kaisann, or else you're seeing things. ;) If it came down to taking a "specialty" away from another class to give druids a niche it shouldn't be from wizards. There are other classes that could spare a "specialty" though. In conjunction with that, you would have to take something away from druids to balance it out I suppose.

I think that everyone should have a role in a MMORPG. I'm sure there will be people that disagree and claim there's a place for a "jack-of-all-trades" class. But when you have all these real live people in here playing there should be a place for all of them, at least there would be in a perfect world(or in this case, game). I understand that won't always happen no matter how you design it but shouldn't you come as close as possible?

I was just at a few other class boards...and people say druids bitch and whine! Not as much as some others, damn!

nm. Not worth it

Aw come on, you can tell us. What's not worth it?

He was going to remind everyone how badly druids suck at everything but suddenly had a divine visitation and realized that he's been wrong all this time.

Then cleric is better at healing. Wizard is best at nuke. Druid is right behind both. maybe 80% - 85% of each. Not as good as the primary in each situation but right behind them. It is hard to be at 80% in 10 different areas though. You have to give up something to get the specialization.

Saying druids are 80% of wizards or clerics isn't very accurate though. There are 3 limiters typically on damage in a raid, agro, time and mana, typically on a boss mob one will matter and the others won't. When you're dealing with agro then wizard with subtlety can put out 20% more damage than a druid, manaburn is another 10k (or 8k or whatever) agroless damage, then you have concussion on top of that. Druids will be very lucky to be 70% of wizards in that case. In a situation where it's DPS that matters druids can't even touch wizards, even if you ignore manaburn. It's only where you look at mana and pure nuke efficiency that druids come anywhere close to wizards, but for druids to actually nuke close to wizards in that case you have to ignore the as much as 9 more mana/tick than druids and Xuzl now being useful, many wizards quote 10dps, 7% more crits and lower resists pushing wizards to well over 20dps more than druids. It's also of note that most other classes are getting efficiency upgrades with PoP putting them closer to wizard/magician/druids and that pet classes as well as shamans with their high mana regen all end up doing very very good damage in any situation where a wizard actually has to med.

For clerics, needing 2 druids to take the place of a single cleric in the CH chain doesn't sound like 80%, and while yes we get a nice direct heal in PoP it's still not going to make up for the lack of group heals and HoTs. If a raid needs a minimum of 8 clerics you're NOT going to get away with 10 druids for healing instead (and 1 cleric for rezzes/buffs) so it certainly doesn't seem like 80%.

brum,
I am not going to get deep into this discussion, but I need to comment that anyone who calls a hp buff that adds MORE than TWICE the hps (Present day: BoA 1150, PoTG 450. In PoP: Hand of Virtue 1500, Blessing of the Nine: 660) and MORE than TWICE the ac (Present day: BoA: 60, PoTG 24. In PoP: Hand of Virtue: 72, Blessing of the Nine: 33).. anyone who refers to this as just "a little better" needs to have their head examined :)

I will chose to assume that you really didn't know how huge the difference was when you made this statement. Benefit of the doubt and all that.

To answer your question, "what are a clerics specialities?":
- Superior healing
- Superior hp/ac buffing
- Superior rez
- Superior DA-line of spells

Mind you, I am not saying clerics should not HAVE all this. I am merely saying that you do, in fact, have specialities, several things that you do -better- than anyone else.

Believe it or Not, our server MB crews's Message Board's password is AntiDruid. Here is the link. The hatred is always there:(

pub95.ezboard.com/fmbcrewfrm2 (http://pub95.ezboard.com/fmbcrewfrm2)

LOL you start a thread, about why do wizards hate druids (because you're too dense to catch a joke / play on words / and never saw that pic going around when you do so and so god kills a kitten) and then it continues on into a thread about how you dislike wizards and are glad MB got nerfed :evil:

oh and hi there Aidon, haven't see you troll.. er posting at graffe's lately :) toodles


ZZ

and another thing, speaking as a regular poster at graffe, myself, Whizbang AND the mods have actually defended druids because in truth our closest friends in the game happen to be druids.

Hell i was "raised" if you will by 2 druids, and taught just about everything I know. Email the Graffe mods and ask them about banning idiots that propose nerfs to druids, or try and blame druids for some idiot thing or the other.

No real Wizard would post such drival. This thread makes baby jesus bandwidth cry :(

/bow

ZZ

---- well just read the post and then tell me what it is? ----

there is probably a thread on every single class message boards about how much they hate druids.
/shrug

I have an overpowering urge to shrug or something. *SHRUG*

We don't have anything we excel at so we want something else


Druids excel at making the rain stop, what more do you need???


Baron Cendaer Cerliin
Sorcerer

"I base my observations about the nerfs on having played a druid since the game went live. I know what has been taken away from us compared to other classes. From what I have seen we had more taken back or away then any other class so far. I know for a fact that was the case for the first 6-12 months that the game was out."

Once *again*, you dodge the question. You keep saying that Druid's are the most nerfed class based upon "your experience", "I base my observations about the nerfs on having played a druid...".

What, *specific* nerfs are you referring to? List them, please.

I remember one *very* early on dealing with DoT damage not doing as much when you are running from mobs, but this was later reversed. The only other one I can think of is the removal of the component from your epic, but didn't the majority of Druids want that anyway?

Good thread, valid points made on both sides. /applaud the general ability for self moderation that kept this thread from becoming an ugly slugfest, except for a few hotheads on each side /grin

The only thing left hanging that was started but not finished is the answer to the above...he was asked several times to state what nerfs he was talking about, and always fell back on "in my experience, we are".

Shizz

and another thing, speaking as a regular poster at graffe, myself, Whizbang AND the mods have actually defended druids because in truth our closest friends in the game happen to be druids.

Please.

Whizbang ranks up there in the top ten druid hating idiots on that board.

The only druids he likes are the rare ones who were content being able to quad light blue mobs and didn't seem to care that we were incapable of performing on the level Druids needed to be able to perform at.

You, my friend, are little better.

Kaisann,

welcome to the list of wizard idiots. Its evergrowing ;) .

If you ever bothered to read what I've posted on here, or any board, regarding the problems druids had, you realize just how skewed that statement was.

There were serious problems with the Druid class. They were determined, listed, remedies were suggested, and Verant took action.

I am the first to suggest Druids are doing well now that Verant listened to our complaints and rectified them.

^^^^ BTW Druids, it's guys like this one here that give Wizards a bad taste in their mouth. Do y'all really like this guy?

Seriously, how many Druids are comfortable having Aidon speak for them on other class boards?

"Leader of the Bitter Druids" says it all, I think.

Shizz

Shizz..you are living up to your name.

You can view the Bitter Druids along the same light as Team Xuzl.

More than anything else, its a Grove thing which obviously lack the competence to research or understand, and therefore need to restrain yourself from comment upon it.

That's only a very small part of it, I assure you. You're generally an arrogant, pompous @#%$ Aidon. The "Bitter Druids" thing was an after thought.

Besides, it still applies. The boards you post on don't know about your "cute little harmless team"...they see the Bitter Druids title you carry around so proudly, read your rhetoric and think "Well, at least he labels himself appropriately".

The question stands, how do you Druids feel about this guy? Does he accurately represent your class?

Shizz

Down with Aidon!

Shave his feet!

Eat his sheep!

I haven't kept a list of the nerfs. If you have then I suggest you turn off your computer and get a life. I also don't have time to go back to the patching records to get a list, feel free to do this on your own. I only know that they occurred.

Odd, I would think that they'd have to be pretty frequent *and* major, not to mention drastically class altering in order for them to mean that Druids are the most nerfed class in the game.

Of course, many "just know" that noone ever landed on the moon, that Kennedy was killed by the CIA, and that the space shuttle has a siesmic device that NASA uses to kill political opponents with earthquakes.

Shizz

I know from playing the class jackass. There haven't been any major ones recently and I don't have the memory I used to. If I had the time I would go back through the patching logs and look but I don't so too bad.

Please list at least one nerf the druid class has experienced that was either not

a) reversed recently (ie. dot damage against moving targets)
or
b) requested by a majority of your community (ie. epic effect.)

It is not sufficient to say "I have seen lots of nerfs" - it is impossible to form a discussion around that statement as it is akin to saying "chocolate is better than vanilla in ice cream." Its a statement of belief and feeling, not fact.

Druids have weaknesses in terms of end-game viability, and those issues are being addressed, but I do not believe a weakness in class design is the same as a class nerf. Pets being unreliable on raids is not a nerf to mages, its a bad design in the game. Losing modrod2 *is* a nerf as it is an ability that was since taken away. Just for example.

Druids have always stated, that our worst nerfs were nerfs by omission.

Was the lack of a decent obtainable spell in SoL when it first shipped a nerf? Yes.

Was long standing removal of Druids from the "port" venue due to the abosolute lack of Luclin ports a nerf? Yes.

Was the stagnation of our healing, nuking, and DoTing abilities while every other class saw great improvements a nerf? Yes.

The advent of harmony resistant mobs (and indeed entire zones) was a nerf.

The advent of snare/root immune mobs was a nerf.

The decision to make every mob over level 50 summon was a nerf.

The decision to make some mobs under level 50 summon was a nerf.

The sudden change of wolf form lowering faction in all new content from Kunark onward was a nerf.

That being said.

Most of them have been rectified by Verant. It took "bitching" and "whining" to get them rectified. You don't like it? Tough @#%$. That simple. You and I both know, that had Druids just sat quiety and never complained about what had happened to our class, that we'd have remained the same.

Aidon speaks for me 100%. He knows the druid class inside and out and doesn't take any crap :)

Well since you have taken on the role of prosecutor that must make me the defendant Shiz. So you have the burden of proving your point. Go track down every last patch log and post it here to prove you're right and I'm wrong, otherwise shut up. You're just going to have to deal with my "just know" statement. If you can't then I suggest seeing a therapist.

Like someone pointed out above, part of the nerfs have been getting looked over as a class because idiots to this day keep pointing to utility like it's the end-all and be-all. I don't subscribe to that and have posted my views on the druid class being poorly designed from the start. But there have also been other nerfs like the one you pointed out. Now that's all I'm going to say on the matter because I'm not in the mood to spin my wheels on this issue anymore.

Quote

To answer your question, "what are a clerics specialities?":
- Superior healing
- Superior hp/ac buffing
- Superior rez
- Superior DA-line of spells


Numbered 1 2 3 4

1 only realy matters in a raid, if you can heal enough you can get by ie typical exp grind

2 only realy matters in a raid thanks to mudflation not in your typical exp grind

3 only matters in a raid with multiple deaths ie the puller chanter shammy etc. 90% does not cut it in situations like that (paladins) 93% is ok but the cost of getting one is hi unless of course you kill your bot over and over

4 This one is unique in that it allows me to drop it so my druid buddy or shammy buddy can heal me before I am finished being eaten by the bad guy. Palys have it and necros have one.

But this is not about clerics, why do wizards hate us (druids) so much I think is the thread.

Aidon, while I might not agree with him on most issues shoots from the hip and tells it the way he perceives it. That can piss you off and annoy you, so what? Druids home, their house, their rules. Coming here picking an argument gets ya no where, just flamed all to hell by other annoying people. Sift through the garbage and a few come out and stand out, it is as simple as that. Coming here to flame gets ya no where, coming here to discuss, after the initial flurry of flames may get you some answers.

Be well and safe all

Aamadar LeCambrion
Templar of Mithaniel
Fennin Ro (Retired)

No, my point is already proven. I wasn't out to say that Druid's *aren't* the most nerfed class out there...far from it, when you first stated that early in this thread, and someone asked you about it, I was very much looking forward to the answer because I was curious. It didn't strike me as instantly wrong, and I wanted to see just what *had* been done to Druids, as I really couldn't think of much.

I read the whole thread because it was an interesting thread, and you just kept dodging the question that I was now interested in learning the answer for. Are Druids the most nerfed class in history? I didn't know...up until that point, I considered Necro's for that position, with several jockying for that ever so prestigious yet dubious title, but I was more than willing to reassess given the grounds to do so.

But you never answered it, other than your gut feel.

In any event, back to the point that I was trying to make, which was proven. You made a very bold statement, and no one at the time (until Aidon) backed you up on it. You didn't support that statement with facts, only feelings...and while no one but Wizards flat out disagreed with you, no Druids jumped up on the bandwagon to wave the flag for you either.
The point was that you presented your opinion as fact, but couldn't back it up with anything more than nebulous feelings.

Secondarily, the point was that statements were made in the thread that I was very much looking forward to the answers to, but weren't answered. That one key piece was what was missing from making this otherwise noteworthy thread complete. Now it is.

So, in both cases, point proven.

Shizz

"Aidon, while I might not agree with him on most issues shoots from the hip and tells it the way he perceives it. That can piss you off and annoy you, so what? Druids home, their house, their rules. Coming here picking an argument gets ya no where, just flamed all to hell by other annoying people. Sift through the garbage and a few come out and stand out, it is as simple as that. Coming here to flame gets ya no where, coming here to discuss, after the initial flurry of flames may get you some answers."

Aamadar, I absolutly agree with you here.

The basic problem here tho is that it would be wonderful if Aidon did stay here in the Druids home, in his house, with his rules. But he doesn't do that. He's been known to come over to Graffe and spew all kinds of annoying rhetoric all over the place.

This is why I brought up the question about whether or not he is an accurate representative of your class.

Would like to point out also that I didn't come over here to flame anyone, especially Druids. Looking back, a single flame did come out of my keyboard, directed at Aidon. As you point out, that was probably a mistake as *any* community doesn't like it when someone comes and takes a dump in their yard...even if the patch of yard that was dumped on is tainted for 2,000 years due to an unfortunate nuclear waste incident in the '50s....it's still your yard.

In any event, once again thank you for the enlightening thread. Was a good read.

Shizz

Rofl Shizz. Ok, consider this a druid standing up waving the flag for him. ;) Although saying no one did is kind of interesting considering Aidon's post. But I guess you chose to ignore that.

In all honesty though, I couldn't say we are the clear winner...but thats only because I've been gone for the last year, and may have missed a plethora of nerfs for another class during that year.

Before I left a year ago, Druids would be a strong contender for most nerfed.

And no, I'm not going to try and dig up patch history either. ;) But if you'd like to do an analysis on it...I'd love to see it.

Nah Burgundy, I didn't ignore it =P I said in the line that "until Aidon"...and I was referring to the first 4 pages of the thread, which was everything before I asked the question.

Up until the time that I questioned it, no one had.

Shizz

Shizz, the reason noone bothered to go down any lists of nerfs for the Druid class is because they've been discussed ad nauseum on this board.

If you really wish to know, read the boards, read the archives.

That being said, I do not believe druids were the most nerfed class. That dubious honor solidly falls in the Necromancer camp. After the Necromancers, I'd have to say its a tossup between Shadowknights, Mages, and Druids, historically speaking.

At this stage of the game, I'd say Druids and Mages are as balanced as can reasonably be expected (though I'll admit my knowledge of Magely matters is limited, so I could be off the mark on that). Shadowknights, on the other hand, are still looking for something. They can't solo very well and they take a backseat to both Paladins and Warriors when it comes to tanking on both a group or raid level.

I've rethought my position slightly. Please see the "General-EQ" section of your boards.

Have a great day!

Shizz

I don't agree with necros being the most nerfed. At least not overall, maybe recently though. I'm talking over the history of the game from day one, taking all the nerfs and comparing the number. There have been classes that got nerfed more in the sense of major nerfs that really downgraded the class but my point was just the sheer quantity(counting being just plain ignored, which was a good thing in some cases).

<---- would certainly let Aidon speak for him on Druid matters

Would be interested in Shizz's response to his list of nerfs by omissions a few posts back.

Also, like Aidon I'm really pretty content with where the Druid class has landed. However, anyone who thinks that we're overpowered now needs to check out uber guild app pages to see a Druid's level of desirability.

http://sun.he.net/~justin1/eq/sig2.jpg
Magelo Profile (http://www.magelo.com/eq_view_profile.html?num=202599)

For Accretion:

"Was the lack of a decent obtainable spell in SoL when it first shipped a nerf? Yes."

-Have to agree, if that was the case. I'd be a hypocrit not to, as the SoL Wizard nukes were the same way. Yours got fixed our's didn't, so *neener* =P

"Was long standing removal of Druids from the "port" venue due to the abosolute lack of Luclin ports a nerf? Yes."

-I do not agree, but probably because I'm a Wizard. To us, porting on/in Luclin should have been Wizard only, from a roleplay perspective. There are no Druid rings, only spires. The magics that brought about the opening of Luclin were clearly magic, and not nature related. There are other things, I didn't get too heavily into it from the Wizard angle, though there were some pretty long posts about it over on Graffe's when it was announced that Druids were getting those ports.

"Was the stagnation of our healing, nuking, and DoTing abilities while every other class saw great improvements a nerf? Yes."

-I do not agree, but I have to admit that that's probably because of ignorance of your class. In my *personal* view, there are just so many things that Druids do very well that that makes up for lack of vast improvements in specific areas. Yah, I know, y'all hate that argument.

"The advent of harmony resistant mobs (and indeed entire zones) was a nerf."

-Conceded, but you guys are far from the only class to be effected by that kind of VI retar...erm, imagination.

"The advent of snare/root immune mobs was a nerf."

-This is a tougher one. I disagree because much of that, I believe, was not meant to hurt the players, but to enhance the play experience by forcing us to use different tactics. On the other hand, this is a common tactic used by VI to shut down certain things that they find distasteful (i.e. there are *extremely* few places to AE now because of non-stunnable mobs, etc) So, yes and no.

"The decision to make every mob over level 50 summon was a nerf."

-A. Not true. Not all mobs over 50 summon.
-B. Agree. It certainly seems that the summoning ability was introduced to keep people like sneaky wizards and grubby little Druids from soloing everything in the game. Necessary "nerf"? Yup, absolutely.

"The decision to make some mobs under level 50 summon was a nerf."

-Sure, ok, nerfage.

"The sudden change of wolf form lowering faction in all new content from Kunark onward was a nerf."

-Nerf, or oversight? This was fixed, neh?

One last little point that I was going to address in Aidon's post, but left alone because I didn't want to go flame-war:

"It took "bitching" and "whining" to get them rectified. You don't like it? Tough @#%$. That simple. You and I both know, that had Druids just sat quiety and never complained about what had happened to our class, that we'd have remained the same."

-Not Aidon, but *many* Druids have posted (there is even a new one today, over in your general boards) how incredibly whiney Wizards are. I find that so ludicrous. Our class defining ability was nerfed this week, of *course* we're going to whine about it.

But what makes me mad here is that we've had Druids from this board COME OVER TO GRAFFE'S and call us all a bunch of annoying whiny little babies.

And then, see a statement like that from Aidon...it's like, y'all have been screwed for so long that you KNOW that bitching about things is the only way to fix them, and you spent a LONG time bitching and whining, and by God VI finally listened to you and fixed you. Now, a bunch of you have disdain for anyone who whines about their nerfs. What the hell gives with that?

Anyway, that's a complete tangent, and I let it go at the time, but you asked.

Shizz

-A. Not true. Not all mobs over 50 summon.

Until Luclin...they all did. Luclin introduced both the rare 50+ mob that didn't summon..and the sub 50 mobs mob which did.

"The sudden change of wolf form lowering faction in all new content from Kunark onward was a nerf."

-Nerf, or oversight? This was fixed, neh?

No. Not fixed.

Verant didn't like that druids could use Wolf form to avoid faction issues in some zones (it set your faction to indifferent), so they decided that instead of just making it so illusions didn't adjust faction at all..that illusions would lower your faction significantly. For a very brief period when SoL came out...the luclin content was like the old world where wolf form set you to indiff. That lasted about 2 days.

But what makes me mad here is that we've had Druids from this board COME OVER TO GRAFFE'S and call us all a bunch of annoying whiny little babies...Now, a bunch of you have disdain for anyone who whines about their nerfs. What the hell gives with that?

Its awefully hard to convince druids not to give a little paybacks when we had a steady stream of wizards and clerics coming over to our boards and telling us to STFU and stop whining since last March when State of the Druid was linked to on Caster's Realm.

As you noted...I don't. I only post against anti-druid posts and posters on Graffes. If I were a wizard I'd be bitching up a storm right now (not that it'll change anything in this particular instance). However, I find it difficult to fault those druids who do. I doubt they even really think Wizards don't have a call to bitch...but damn we had hundreds of wizard posts over here and over on Graffes calling us a bunch of whiners...and still do.

Well, I think we'll have as much luck settling *that* issue as the English and the French had settling thier's for a millenium.

"Go away, you English Pig Dog!"

"We're here for paybacks, you raided our coasts, pillaged, burned, stoll our shizzit, and raped our women last spring!"

"I fart in your general direction. You raided us in the Winter"

"Yes, but only because you leveled the abbey at Dunkirk the Summer before!"

"Begone, you stilly english Kannigits!"

etc...

I guess it eventually gets to the point at least where the intelligent members of the community get irritated enough to get involved in the onslaught.

Care to swap nukes in the Arena?

Shizz

BTW:

"For a very brief period when SoL came out...the luclin content was like the old world where wolf form set you to indiff. That lasted about 2 days."

That's just @#%$.

Shizz

I thought you had leveled off Shiz but now you're starting to go back the other way again. So much for the moderate stance.

I think druids have every right to attack wizards or whoever else bashes us. I don't play doormat in real life and I'm sure as hell not going to do it in a game. It might not be the most mature thing to do but you started it! Neener neener neener! :p

I agree totally with all wizards that post here for the following reasons that continually get flat out ignored by druids...until it is changed I will continue to write in letters and e-mails to verant complaining continuously

the subject of the luclin ports

druids should not have EVER gotten this ability. EVERY druid out there KNOWS they shouldn't have and are just too stupid to admit it. the nexus is clearly a spire and not a stupid collection of tumbled stones. I mean for god sakes think you tree hugging freaks.


the subject of their new heals

this should have NEVER happened either. not only are druids the best in alot of areas they are allowed to become even stronger in a clerics speciality. this is another thing that should be changed pronto


the subject of the whiney druids saying they should get plane ports too


NEVER I am serious in saying druids should lose well over half of their porting if not all of it


druids have the best DoTs in the game as well as the ability to sow and snare and change form and they have damage shields buffs and direct damage spells and porting they have become WAY WAY over balanced. verant stated they changed a wizards ability because they could kill higher level mobs with little risk for big profit did they once look at druids? Druids do this very abboration every single game play day

GET REAL
druids should get the nerf bat and I am on a personal campaign to see that they do

druids should not have EVER gotten this ability. EVERY druid out there KNOWS they shouldn't have and are just too stupid to admit it.

Am I honestly supposed to believe you like porting people to the moon and you're pissed that another class has taken some of that pain in the @#%$ job away from you? I couldn't give a rats @#%$ if every class got every port. That way I'm not stuck hauling people's asses around. You really make me laugh.

Came here to respond to the people posting about all of the cleric's specialties. We really only have one--healing.

However after reading soneliel's post, I have to shoulder up and stand with my fellow priest. I may want better group utilities and solo abilities and there may be a certain few here who are determined to see that not happen, but to say druids should be nerfed on ports and healing is way out there.

Most clerics realize that druids needed the new heals. Our fight is not with them. And yours should not be either. Druids are a very strong class yes. So what. If you want to improve your class then fight verant to get your class improved not nerf druids. When my guild needs to mobolize to take on a mob that pops out of the blue, the more porters the better. Most of our guild's wizs would actually be upset if they were the only porters, cause then everyone else would be ready to raid and they would be oom after 1/2 hour of solid porting. Same way with healing. Druids healing is good. No nerfing of druids--just try to improve your class. That is the way most of the clerics are going thankfully.

Peace my fellow priest

Hey Soneliel, mind telling us exactly what areas druids are so clearly superior in? I gotta say, while druids DO rock, its not because they are the best at somthing. Lets see, nuking? Nope not the best. Dotting? Nope not the best. Healing? Nope not the best but DEFINATELY much better now. Buffing? Nope, not the best. Porting? Eh, thats a grey area. In some cases I prefer wizard ports, in others id rather have a druid. In places like Skyfire, id rather walk there thanks. :p Maybe druids are the best at melee? Oh wait, no. Tanking? Nope. Sorry, but I cant seem to find all those areas where druids reign supreme. Please, educate me and show me which category druids are better than all other classes in.

Traab "Love Machine" Fellhammer
Human Mob Compactor of the 52nd Cycle
And Almost Too Sexy To Live!

"I GOT IT! We are the best SLOWERS! Oh wait, no."

First post and outrageous statements = troll. Do us all a favor Son and walk in front of a bus, thanks.

By the way, I'm going to single-handedly make it my goal in life to ruin the wizard class you ignorant moron. LOL! Now can we come back to reality?

La la la... :p

Bam,

No telling people to walk in front of buses please. This is the rant zone, so feel free to tell trolls to bugger off in a variety of interesting ways, but refrain from death wishes ;) .

I hope a bus runs over your toons foot! Is that better Aidon? :p

Traab "Love Machine" Fellhammer
Human Mob Compactor of the 52nd Cycle
And Almost Too Sexy To Live!

"Stupid leprosy! I just lost another fingernail! GAH!"

I figured someone would be ignorant enough to say something about the "bus" comment.You need to lighten up, seriously.

Sorry Bam, rl threats like that, even ones made in jest are one of the few things not allowed in this forum. Feel free to threaten the eternal soul of his toon though. Thats allowed. :D
Try this. May the honed demons of Ixpah smite his toon like the last six!

Traab "Love Machine" Fellhammer
Human Mob Compactor of the 52nd Cycle
And Almost Too Sexy To Live!

"Now isnt that a much more satisfying comment then yours?"

It's not a threat, it's a figure of speech so get over it. Besides, it's not like I told them to actually get hit by the bus. :p

I figured someone would be ignorant enough to say something about the "bus" comment.You need to lighten up, seriously.

Generally, its considered a less than wise idea to call a Mod ignorant for doing his job in a lenient manner.

Sobe and Stormhaven have banned folks for such remarks before (I recall a cleric telling someone to douse themselves in gasoline and light it...).

I probably should have just deleted your comment...instead I decided to give you the benefit of the doubt and address you as an adult and simply tell you that such comments weren't permitted, even in the Rants section. In the future I'll note that such tactics aren't sufficient for you.

Whats a wizard?

Oh look our wonderful self appointed community spokesman.

Nice Graffes post idgit.

Reading "How to piss off enemys and alienate your class" this month Windfyre?

/rude

Wizard == "goofy" person in a dress who runs around and blows @#%$ up.

Shizz

If you make an ignorant comment then it's ignorant whether you're a mod or not. I didn't realize this board had censorship to the point of being facist.

Is there a reason you pointed that post at me.. I didnt start this thread.

My guess would be due to pub23.ezboard.com/fgraffe...=777.topic (http://pub23.ezboard.com/fgraffeswizardcompilationfrm10.showMessage?topicID =777.topic)

Yes, it is INCREDIBLY fascist to tell somene not to post things like suggestions that they should walk in front of a bus. Hes following the rules and id reccomend just dropping it and moving on Bam.

Traab "Love Machine" Fellhammer
Human Mob Compactor of the 52nd Cycle
And Almost Too Sexy To Live!

"So sorry if you feel following the rules is fascist."

Actually Aidion that was a druid saying that they should douse all the clerics with gasoline and lite them up and then dance around them. I remember that one. About 1-2 months ago.

Actually I was a referring to a cleric who told one of our members to light himself on fire and called him a nazi faggot a couple of times ;)

From Soneliel

druids should not have EVER gotten this ability. EVERY druid out there KNOWS they shouldn't have and are just too stupid to admit it. the nexus is clearly a spire and not a stupid collection of tumbled stones. I mean for god sakes think you tree hugging freaks.



Soneliel does it really matter? you can just hop up to PoP and down to where ever you want. But then again Wizzies shouldnt be able to port to cobalt scar or iceclad since they are rings and not spires /shrug think maybe you should waste your energy on something else. I really doubt that druids porting to luclin will ever be change everyone just clicks on that little stone marked nexus now :) Maybe you should do the thinking and use a bit of common sense instead.

<blockquote><strong><em>Quote:</em></strong><hr>there is probably a thread on every single class message boards about how much they hate druids.[/quote]

I'm quite an avid monk and also play a druid, but never once on the Monkly-Business message boards have I seen a real thread about them hating druids.

/em has nothing else to say...

Once again. This horse died weeks ago. Why did someone wake this thread up again?

Probably just some peeps enjoying their access to the rant forum again... :)

"so I'll never read it"

And no one here will read yours either.