View Full Forums : Stupid ass BST and their nukes.
Bob The Druid
05-06-2004, 08:32 AM
Ok, posting this because I am just totally pissed.
Killed Firetail for the first time last night.
Cloak of Combustion drops...
Does a Wizzy, or Druid get it?
No, it goes to a BST.. the reasoning....well the only nukes they have are cold based.
Are you retarded? Come on. if a bst is nuking, first off, its pathetic, and secondly they should be Meleeing.
I am a druid, when I am not healing, I COLD NUKE, thats what the **** I do.
I cant Melee with the POS weapons we get, at least now. So all I can do is nuke, in fire you use COLD.
Not only that , but the BST had a much better cloak then several of the other people who sent a tell in, myself included.
I ****ing hate Merit. The officers cant know everything, and they do ,and in this case have, made mistakes.
I love my guild but this **** happens alot, I am waiting for a warrior to get a Imp Healing 4 item.
Posting under a general name, because I love my guild, but this **** was just WRONG. and I needed to vent.
05-06-2004, 10:58 AM
Talk to whoever that handled the loot and ask why :p
05-06-2004, 11:51 AM
I found that in Merit guilds even talking about loot is generally NOT a good idea. You get labeled as troublemaker at best, at worst you're labeled a loot whore.
Nope, if I were him, I'd just keep it to myself.
05-06-2004, 12:01 PM
Merit guilds suck. Alot.
05-06-2004, 12:36 PM
Talk up your cold based nukes in /gu with the other druids (but plan the discussion a bit before you do). Talk about crits, potential crits and mana efficiency, etc when several of the decisionmakers are online. Don't whine about the cloak, but talk a bit about what certain foci can do for you. Educate. Do this before you kill Firetail again. In fact, it isn't a bad idea to "educate" periodically in /gu so that people understand your class better anyway.
Good luck! You'll be doing him again soon, I'm sure!
05-06-2004, 12:38 PM
only if you let loot decisions make you angry....if it's merit in a guild about loot.....then it's gonna get abused....if it's merit in a guild about a group of people that trust each other and don't let the little things like numbers on a item get between them it's likely mostly fair and many might find it the best way to go about their business /shrug
Storm Warden of Tunare
05-06-2004, 12:43 PM
although in reference to original post....that cloak is pretty much the best back a druid can get elemental imo....the bst is gonna get a small fraction of the use outta the focus that a druid will....pretty shortsighted if their justification was that their only nuke is cold-based....at least make an argument about it's more than just an item with a focus effect....otherwise....omg i have autoattack all your haste are belong to me
Storm Warden of Tunare
05-06-2004, 12:47 PM
I was in a merit guild. Worked pretty well when you have mature players (not inferring that you aren't).
We required that they link the item they were upgrading. This allowed the officers to know if it was a minor upgrade over a major.
05-06-2004, 01:26 PM
Just tell your guild mate grats on the upgrade and move on. There are tons of items out there that we all think should go to one class over another. The bottom line, it obviously has some stats that were an upgrade to him and he was a class that can use it so he went in. I am not saying I agree, nor disagree... I'm just saying loot isn't worth the trouble to cause a fuss over. There will always be plenty of loot to be had in a successful guild.
05-06-2004, 02:07 PM
Focus aside, that cloak has some nice hitpoints on it. Melees tend to like hitpoints. If the cloak was a decent upgrade in terms of hitpoints, then there is a good argument for the beastlord to get it. The thing with merit is it's usually based on raid attendance, general as well as specific equipment of each toon and time in guild (old timers tend to get first dibs). Finally, gear availability is taken into account. Cold nuke focuses for druids drop in PoFire, PoWater and PoEarth. Cold nuke focuses for beastlords and rangers drop in PoFire. Yep ... That cloak. Since druids, shaman and wizards have other choices, it might make sense to prioritize the cloak to melees instead of casters.
Not saying merit is good. Merit sucks. But since we don't know how big an upgrade that cloak was to the beastlord relative to the druid, I can't really support the idea that it should go to a druid or wizard.
05-06-2004, 03:03 PM
My guild is pure dkp, and out of 5 cloaks, the first went to a ranger, second to bard, third to warrior, and 4th and 5th to bst.
I personally didn't want it because my detrimental spell haste is on my back, and I have ID focus on my cudgel (not as good as the cloak, but affects all spells, and it'd cost me too much to move things around at this point to accomodate the cloak, and I only use cold nukes in fire and solro anyways because of elemental gloves)
Can't be worse than my guild giving detrimental spell focii and cold focii to clerics I suppose, although to be fair there were mitigating circumstances.
05-07-2004, 02:25 AM
I dont think it should be preffed to a Beastlord, but its not wrong that it went to a beastlord.
Hybrids (Beastlords) can nuke and not have their melee swing timers be reset, IE Swing, Nuke, Swing etc.
05-08-2004, 03:33 AM
"You get labeled as troublemaker at best"
Never even got anything(or expected to) and got labled 'greedy', for advocating a points system.
05-08-2004, 09:56 AM
Point in fact is that this cloak is desireable by many many classes including warriors, paladins and rogues too. I know this because I had fought tooth and nail plus almost my entire chunk of dkp just to get this cloak back in my days of playing EQ.
05-08-2004, 10:21 AM
I don't see how merit loot is conducive to an item ending up in the hands up people who don't have a need for it. This cloak is All/All if I'm remembering right, and in most DKP systems anyone can bid on it. One of the points of merit based loot is to consider a wide spectrum of reasons when assigning loot. Officers are only human, and sometimes they make mistakes, but generaly any merit based loot I've been in has been run very well.
If people are making poor decisions in your opinion about equipment choices, maybe you should take it upon yourself to educate them? For example, there are many cloaks which fight melees better then the Cloak of Combustion.
05-08-2004, 02:43 PM
"sometimes they make mistakes"
Change that to usually, and I will agree with you.
The only way they work(are fair) is that all the error and mistakes get spread around equally, eventually.
05-08-2004, 03:44 PM
My guild does loot based on merit, that cloak went to wizards and druids first and finally bst's. Mistakes are made, and the best way to make sure they dont happen again is to send a tell to the person who awards the loot.
However not knowing anything about you, it's possible the person awarding the loot may have felt it'd get more use from the bst(probably not but i wouldnt know).
05-08-2004, 04:56 PM
Time for you to find a DKP guild it sounds like.
05-09-2004, 12:47 AM
DKP system has its own flaws and so has Merit system. None of them its better than the other really. Really depends on your guild. :)
05-09-2004, 10:34 PM
i'm in a dkp guild. cleric won a cloak of endless torment. it's not the system failing really, it's just people not planning out their gear well and seeing what items will help them the most.
imo, the cloak of combustion is great for a beastlord simply cause of teh stats. foci just is added.
05-10-2004, 06:51 PM
In DKP guilds people get mad because they think that its dumb for item X to go to player Y or that Player X should have gotten Item Z because of factor A,
People who bitch about loot will bitch about loot w/ any system..
Unless its gross and obvious abuse just live and let go more will drop
05-11-2004, 05:30 PM
Kineada nailed this one. I agree completely. Especially when you are in a Merit guild (EWW) you sometimes have to trust the decisions of the officers, and step back trying to see another side of the argument.
Good luck on the next cloak =)
That cloak drops fairly often there will be more.
05-12-2004, 11:43 AM
My old guild (a merit guild) awarded the first several of those cloaks to rogues simply because of the + dodge mod on it.
05-23-2004, 10:23 PM
I have been in both DKP and Merit, I preffer Merit so far. Won't go into why cuz everyone had there reasons. I do agree however that with either they can be abused if fallen into the wrong hands. I agree with many others, although that was frustrating..I would let it go this time and if it continues to be unfair, I would suggest taking it up with RL or GL and share your feelings, very quietly :)
05-24-2004, 12:29 PM
I've only been in a "merit" type guild, but it sounds like we do things a bit differently. It's not the officers that decide, it's a seperate group of people called the Loot Council. They have a single job: to distribue loot so that 1) it helps the guild progress and 2) everyone gets loot. I think it's alot better then the officers doing it because the officers have alot do otherwise. Having other people you trust who can focus just on getting loot to a good home seems to work really well for us.
and yeah, if they are anything like our loot people, they will sit down and talk to ya if you ask nicely when they aren't busy =)
05-27-2004, 04:49 PM
Well, being I am a beastlord, you, in my opinion, are terribly mistaken. I always nuke while I'm fighting. Nuking while soloing is very helpful. Just because druids have the ICE in their corner doesn't mean beast shouldn't. I imagine that the Ice foci would greatly improve or nuking capability. Just wait your turn for one and try not to raise the drama :boohoo: . Or you could be considered a lewt whore and your guild will hate you. That simple imo.
05-29-2004, 05:32 PM
Merit guilds suck. Alot.
I'll agree wholeheartedly there...hell, I once suggested a points system in a merit guild (where I was an officer)...what did I get? an immediate /guildremove .../chuckle :box:
05-30-2004, 02:39 AM
I wouldn't trust my own mother in a Merit system. I would NEVER join a guild that advocated and practiced a Merit system.
"Sarah gives good cyber, Gratz Sarah on Timeless Leather Tunic Pattern!"
Feh. Give me DKP i can save and spend, and bid with (Via tells, to prevent cockblocking), and I'll be a happy druid.
DKP > Your guildleader/officer/council giving rewards to their friends.
(P.S. I love you mom, I was just making a point!)
05-31-2004, 07:59 PM
Our guild was merit based and has since switched to DKP system. There are problems with both systems. With the merit system frequently before you hit Elemental etc alot of the drops will not be upgrades for a person who has been in the guild for a while so that people just entering the guild will recieve these items.
Don't know how many times I have seen people join the guild get given stuff and leave 2 or 3 months later.
There are disadvatages to the DKP system also especially when implemented in mid stream.
People that have been around for 2 or 3 years are now on an even playing field with those that just started playing. It kind of hurts to lose a roll to someone who has the same DKP points as you but has only been in the guild for three months about the same time the guild started the new system when you have been in the guild for two years and passed on more items then you can remember.
One method that would help out a bit would be if you started out with X amount of points based on time in guild and acumulated points from there.
This would give veterans an advantage. Even with the points I have passed on an item I have won when I knew the person next would recieve a greater benefit from it then I would our guild leader is good enough to let stuff like this happen.
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