View Full Forums : What would it take to bring you back.

06-27-2004, 10:41 AM
I cancelled my accounts about 2 months ago. I was bored the other day and downloaded the lastest patch to read the patch messages and see what was up.

I saw plenty of changes and some things the community had apparantly asked for. However, as I read the patch message I didnt see one thing that would draw me back to the game. Nada. Nothing even remotely piqued my interest.

What would bring me back? I have absolutely no clue. But what I read wasnt it. Maybe 6 months free play. But even that probably wouldnt do it.

So I was wondering (and I am really bored which is why I am posting). For those who have cancelled accounts what would be the deal clincher to get you to try EQ again?

harvey the dog
06-27-2004, 11:29 AM
if Sony sold EQ to a second party that was completely unaffiliated with SOE, i would be back in a heartbeat.

Gus Fifo
06-27-2004, 12:48 PM
hmmm, to pull out the long list or the short one. /em grabs the short one.

1. Increase exp rate.
2. Decrease down time. i.e. Increase mana and hp regen.
3. SCREW class balance. Play what you want to play. Looks like things are headed toward 3 or 4 basic classes with a few mods thrown in anyway.
4. Have to agree with Harvey about getting it away from SoE. Where'd Verant go anyway?
5. Eliminate Halflings as a play class. /em throws on the strongest skin he can find. I have always hated Halflings. Short devils they are.

Bah, just ignore the list. Now that I think about, no way I am going back. Die a horrible death SoE, just die already. whew, that was a longtime coming. Maybe, I should go to the rant section now.

(EDIT) Oh, this is in the rant section. Curse you Sony for turning it into a piece of junk. Pure unadultered halfling shoe dung. 4 years of wasted game time and nothing to show for it. Just a bunch of carrots to follow and no PIE. Where was the Pie and punch? What was supposed to be at the end of the rainbow? Even a rainbow has a beginning and an end. Probably some stupid halfling with a pot of jumjum juice. I want to burn Rivervale and get my stapler back. AAAAUUUUUGGGGGGGHHHHHH.

06-27-2004, 03:28 PM
Patch Message: Today
If you are unhappy with your class you can now change it in the options menu.
EQ Customer Service has adopted a "We'll actually try and be helpful" policy.
oddjob1244 won the EQ lottery of several millions and doesn't have to work overtime anymore.

Yea, then I'd probably play again.

06-27-2004, 06:43 PM
Well... I can't imagine they'd be able to change EQ enough to bring me back. But basically if they changed their focus from large scale raids to making the game one where soloing and grouping were the focus, with lots of challenging content aimed at groups, then I might consider coming back.

But actually, EQ would probably feel so antiquated to me after having played a newly released game with substantially better graphics, better gameplay and so on, that even if they totally changed the focus of the game, I'd probably still not like it.

06-27-2004, 11:09 PM
This is what makes me wary of Sony's statement that EQ2 is for groups and soloers and EQ1 is for raiders. EQ1 started out where you could solo and group and there were some raid targets but they weren't necessary to continue through the story. Therefore, I suspect that EQ2 will eventually follow the same path.

Now what will bring me back? They'd have to change an awful lot. (I thought I answered this somewhere before). The environment will have to be set up to handle the human nature element of the game. Allow for progression mobs, if you insist on having them, to be permakilled to keep others out of content. Reduce the requirements to have 72 people to even have a chance at content. Change the environment to such that there is something meaningful you can do if you just have a few hours to play. Sitting for 2 hours LFG isn't meaningful.

Like Panamah said, though, after playing games that have these qualities and more, EQ would be a dollar short and a day late.

06-28-2004, 06:49 AM
2. Decrease down time. i.e. Increase mana and hp regen.

I’ve always thought downtime, or at least the possibility of downtime, is a good thing in a game.

Back a long time ago when I found grouping most enjoyable, what set apart the good groups from the bad groups was that the good groups never seemed to need any downtime. That was the reward for playing well because it meant they got to kill more overall, without having hugely better equipment than other players.

A good enchanter was one for whom extra NPCs seemed to just stop moving whenever they came near, and the good enchanter seemed to never run out of mana. The bad enchanter was one who was slow to mez causing the cleric to burn more mana healing, and the bad enchanter always ran out of mana.

Now its all about 30 second fights where efficiency takes second place to just spamming spells and hoping for the best. Personally I prefer longer (e.g. 1-2 minute) fights, provided the rewards scale proportionally. Obviously it can be taken too far with the 20 minute Luclin fights where if you can survive the first 2 minutes, you can survive the rest of the time.

Gus Fifo
06-28-2004, 09:00 AM
Ooops, I didn't qualify my play style with my requirements list. I am almost a strict soloer with an occasional group and only 3 or 4 raid experiences. Downtime stinks for a soloer. The class I had the most fun soloing with was a paladin. Yeah, I know druids, bards, necros, and beasties are supposed to be superior at soloing, but it was just a bit more exciting in close combat than at a distance.

I have no issues with raiders or powergamers at all. It is supposed to be a game for everyone anyway. One play style or amount of playtime should set the rules for everyone else. I test myself against the content and not other players. The solo exp nerf really kind of did it in for me. I dumped all but 3 characters just so I could try and progress. Never made it into the 60's with a single character over 4 years. hehe, seems like everytime I got close to the current expansions level limit, it went up again. Just call it a personal character flaw to want to finish something you started. :) Best thing I achieved was making 250 in my first tradeskill. That felt good. Other time I felt like I was on top of the world was my completion of the Tunare Warden necklace. Minor trinket and 3 weeks of time but I felt, what was that word again; oh yeah, GOOD. Those are the moments I remember most.

06-28-2004, 09:34 AM
Make it interesting again.

Make an Uber server like stormhammer where all of these raid freeks can be sent and the GM's can spend 24/7 making unbeatable content for them and get them off the players servers. They can call it UBER Zek. Remove VP, Sleepers, Time and GoD from the regular servers.

Have the Dev's and SoE fix the bugs in the current game. Have them worry more about average players content then making new gods to challenge the people that don't really play the game other than trying to "Beat" the latest SoE incarnation.

06-28-2004, 11:13 AM
How is trying to beat content "not playing the game"? Not to mention that some raiders actually do play outside of raids. More focus on content for the casual player would be nice, but there's no need to ship the raiders off to Seti Alpha 5.

06-28-2004, 02:14 PM
I just gotta say... with the way I feel about EQ right now:

This IS Ceti Alpha Five!!!


06-28-2004, 05:12 PM
How is trying to beat content "not playing the game"?

Because EQ was initially a role playing game.

06-28-2004, 05:41 PM
... and dancing boys, did I mention the dancing boys?

06-28-2004, 06:04 PM
Admiral Kirk?! ..... Admiral...

EQ was never a role playing game. Baldur's Gate is a role playing game, staying in character has direct benefits to your party and pushes the story along. EQ has no mechanisms for rewarding role playing, and no story arc that the characters are a part of, nor can they have any impact on the world, thus it is not a role playing game.

06-28-2004, 06:49 PM
EQ was a roleplaying game. You played a role in the day-to-day life of Norrath. People ignored that role and decided phat lewts and grinding xp was a better way to play. They fubar'd the game. The dev's followed suit and turned EQ into the cesspool action game it is today.

The reason people ignored the RP aspect is they weren't satisfied with RP being the sole reward for roleplaying. RP'ing just for the sake of RP'ing. Greed has always been the ultimate downfall of EQ. Numberless, lootless, immersiveness. With plenty of GM events and the like. Maybe then people would RP.

06-28-2004, 06:56 PM
Hehe... that's called Human Nature Aly. It's not genetically advantageous to do something that requires effort and thought without being rewarded for it in some tangible way. RP'ing for the sake of RP'ing is fine, and many people enjoy that, but they are the anomaly. 99% of people place no value in that sort of thing, and that's a reality that one must face when dealing with a product designed to appeal to as many people as possible.

06-28-2004, 07:04 PM
Take away the factors that cause greed in the game and move on from there. I think CoH did a great job with that and it appeals to a wide market of people.

06-28-2004, 10:13 PM
But nowhere is it mentioned whether CoH appeals to people because of that (lack of) greed motivation, or in spite of it.

As for the original question, I'd come back to EQ if there was a guild that raided time+ content and had my friends in it that didn't reject my application because I'm a jackass on our server forums.

Talyena Trueheart
06-29-2004, 02:57 AM
What would make me come back long term? Nothing SOE could do would bring me back long term.

What might bring me back short term? Soloable LDON adventures. Before I thought pretty much nothing would bring me back, but when I saw someone mention soloable LDONs, I thought that sounded kinda fun. I think that MIGHT be enough to bring me back for the short term.

Long term, I am waiting for a new game. CoH was fun but lacked some depth. I am looking forward to EQ2 and maybe WoW, and then further down the road, Vanguard. So, nothing will ever bring back the magic to EQ, but soloing some LDON adventures might entertain me for a month or two.

06-29-2004, 04:48 AM
CoH was fun but lacked some depth.

Well there's plenty more stuff coming out on the horizon. Much of it free.

06-29-2004, 08:41 AM
On the new topic of what was eq.

When I started EQ there was Nagafen and Vox. You could, if you wished, go raid them. However, it was not required in order to see content. Then they brought in Kunark. You had to get some keys and they had more raid type stuff but, again, it didn't really block you from seeing the game.

Over time, the game became raid oriented. You could still enjoy some content as a non raider, or as in my case, someone with limited time. Blocking people out of content wasn't a productive thing to do with ones time.

Then came POP and Discord. POP promised interesting things for players but was limited to those who were in big guilds. It became productive for some, and that's all it takes is some, to block others from content. If you weren't on 24/7, your chances of proceeding through the content were severely limited.

We won't count Luclin because I'm not entirely sure what the point of that was.

This is how I watched EQ1 go from being group/solo friendly with raid content to a raider's game. This is why I don't give 2 cents for the new hype about how EQ2 will be for groups/soloers with raid content.

To stay on topic. Nothing can be done short of a major reworking of the present content. Which isn't about to happen.

06-29-2004, 08:43 AM
Hehe... that's called Human Nature Aly. It's not genetically advantageous to do something that requires effort and thought without being rewarded for it in some tangible way. RP'ing for the sake of RP'ing is fine, and many people enjoy that, but they are the anomaly. 99% of people place no value in that sort of thing, and that's a reality that one must face when dealing with a product designed to appeal to as many people as possible.

Ah, so to take your view of life to the extreme, we should let all those with genetic disabilites, the sick and the lame just die because, well that's reality because those resistant to disease and genetically impure are better anyway.

You fail to realize that we grew out of that when we developed a bigger brain.

This is an argument that will never be agreed upon.

06-29-2004, 08:44 AM
*delete me because the boards are eating half my message.

06-29-2004, 09:30 AM
The whole Factions issue was for role playing. If it was not a roleplaying game there would be no factions. Traveling the world to see it used to be dangerous as you passed through foreign lands and I used to help the poor trolls that tried to make it through BB and Faydark with no place to buy food or water. If you wanted to walk into Quenos you had to either be good aligned or kill quenos's enemies to gain fame and favor with them. If you worshiped a diety you had to prove to NPC's that worshipped other dieties that you were not their enemy. True, it is a adventure game with role playing aspects but it was never designed with the requirement that you become the highest level and raid 24/7 to beat the latest content until Velous. Even in Kunark they didn't finish VP prior to its release or with Vellous Sleepers because it was a side challenge for those that did want to become uber... Uberness went from being Uber to being expected and that is what ruined EQ as a game. If you make a separate server then once you become uber and no longer care about the mid level content then you could go there to prove your uberness. But why ruin all of the servers for those that don't care about Uberness. As it is now they ignore the non-uber player and ignore all of the sub-planar problems in the game to the point that they feel everyone should be elemental plane scale to be worth making an expansion for. And I refuse to grind to be time flagged just to have to grind through each subsequent expansion like a mindless drone.

06-29-2004, 10:20 AM
If it was not a roleplaying game there would be no factions.
One could just as easily say if it weren't a strategy/action game there wouldn't be any items or levels to obtain. There has always been a measure of roleplaying along with the action aspect of the game. The only problem is that the action has become entirely raidcentric.

Raiding can be tedious (hail, M'Sha #168, which was tanked by a shaman to relieve the monotony) but it can also be quite interesting at both a strategic and tactical level in a way that many people feel you can't get from a single group encounter. I'd like to see them focus more on the single group encounters (sewers and vxed/tipt are a good start) but i'd prefer it not be at the expense of forgetting about raids. Also hopefully it would not be at the expense of moving anyone who actually likes raiding to a leper colony server. There should be room for the co-existence of numerous types of playing styles.

06-29-2004, 03:05 PM
One could just as easily say if it weren't a strategy/action game there wouldn't be any items or levels to obtain. There has always been a measure of roleplaying along with the action aspect of the game. The only problem is that the action has become entirely raidcentric.

I agree it is a strategy/action game. I play it for strategy/action, I just dont play for grind. My suggestion to creat a Stormhaven type server for high end raiders with GMs/Devs working to keep it challenging would be a great boon to the Raid Centric without EQ abandoning the players that love non linear adventure without the grind.

I remember the caution of moving in Permafrost where one missed snared meant death and the fear of Dragon Nec not knowing when spiders would pop out of nowhere. Each time I cast superior camo to run through thurg I remember the panic I used to feel running through Thurg worrying if camo was going to drop (which it often did). There was a lot of adventure that didn't involve 5 hours of set up for 30 minutes of spaming where one bozo could get you all wiped out (7 failed grimmus raids due to one bozo at a time). Multi hour/day raids never excited me which is why I never got past the third island in Sky.

If EQ went back to beinging the well rounded game it was for players that enjoy action/adventure/roleplaying/lore then I would consider coming back. But it never will since from now on you have to stay on the linear grind to be worthy of future expansions. You HAVE to do the game their way one flag at a time and cannot advance till they finish/debug the next adventure. It is now a game for dedicated raiders trying to "WIN" the game and I don't begrudge them that. For those gamers a linear game with set steps to beat is appropriate and each expansion should build upon and be harder than the previous.

The question was just what it would take for ME to come back.

06-29-2004, 03:36 PM
What would it take to bring you backLets see...

1) 1 month free may bring me back to take a look... for starters, otherwise forget the rest
2) Cheetah speed/form would help (I'm still pissed at horses, run5 etc...)
3) Less snare immune/summoning trash mobs
4) Unique spells and abilities for classes, not the same 'ole slightly upgraded spell lines we're seeing
5) Quit sinking EQ revenue into developing/subsidizing other games and start using it to make EQ better. EQ had to make its own money, make your other games do the same.
6) Group (or 2 group) progression as a preferred game dynamic vs. raid progression.
7) Reasonable quest droprates, ever gone through Shawl8 or tried Aid Gimmel? There needs to be more steps that aren't dependant on camping mega-hours for the uber rare drop. Small doable pieces of the bigger whole.

That would be a good start.

07-02-2004, 10:22 AM
The only thing that would bring me back is if Sony somehow miraculously (sp) managed to get an extra day added to the weekly calendar. Then they merged every server together and made it PvP for each 8th day. Then, the last 500 people standing would get to stay on that server, while the rest got bumped to another server on the next 8th day...and the cycle would repeat.

Then, in the end of, oh say, 6 months...there would be a huge roleplay event on every server...different on each of course, scaled to match the tier of each server..with a variety of different endings...some of which would end in total destruction of everything on the server..some would be all peacefull and lovey dovey...whatever.

Then the game would be no more. :)

Pretty far fetched but then so is my return to EQ ;p

07-02-2004, 10:48 AM
Nothing will bring me back. Being time limited and casual in play style, there is nothing left for me but to repeat the same content over and over and over and over again. I do that in my job, which I get paid for, I am not willing to give a company money to do that.

07-02-2004, 03:18 PM
What Wyte said, plus one more thing:

Make the game more solo/duo friendly. I know, it's a grouping game, but if the game went to more lengths to accommodate all playstyles, I'd be more likely to make my one-month visit back to EQ permanent.