View Full Forums : Grammar elitist quote of the day


Cloudien
07-08-2004, 06:46 PM
(From Slashdot comments - read it carefully)

Since I don't email illiterate people, I'd like my mail program run spell check and grammer check on incoming mail. If it isn't at high school level then it's automatically binned.

....
....
... bwahahahahaha! :D

Tudamorf
07-08-2004, 08:18 PM
There's a big difference between a <b>typographical</b> error (e.g., forgetting a word, hitting the wrong key, and transposing characters) and a <b>language</b> error that reveals the author's illiteracy (e.g., "should of" and "their very nice"). We all make typographical errors now and then because we type fast or press the wrong key, but it's reasonable to expect the average person to have a basic grasp of their native language, isn't it (Americans excluded, of course)?

Jinjre
07-08-2004, 11:11 PM
Isn't "binned" the british version of "canned"? I thought they called trashcans 'bins'. Not sure if their OS would have a 'bin' on it instead of a 'trash' or not. Or maybe I'm just showing my ignorance.

Of course, grammar isn't spelled any differently in british english than in american english. And 'to' is a useful word before many verbs.

If my friends spellchecked and banned/binned/trashed my emails when they had errors, they'd never hear from me. Too many "gonna"s, "howya"s, and "prolly"s.

Cloudien
07-09-2004, 07:33 AM
I suppose it probably was a typographical error (the word in question is "Grammer" which is spelt "Grammar") but you'd expect that if someone's writing a post specificially to complain about other people's spelling and grammar that they'd go to all lengths to ensure their own was correct and verified :)

As many pointed out, generally it should read "I'd like my mail program TO run spell check" also.

Just thought it was amusing :)

Yes, we Brits refer to trashcans as "Bins", so "Binned" is correct. There is also a Recycle Bin on the desktop (so does the American version refer to it as a Trash Can?)

I often say 'trashed' though, but more often to mean 'broken' than 'thrown away'.

Jinjre
07-09-2004, 10:08 AM
so does the American version refer to it as a Trash Can?)

Kinda sad, I had to go look at my desktop to answer this. The American version calls it a "recycle bin". We have recycle bins, but trash cans. So I guess it works out this way. We also have food stored in cans, not tins. Maybe our processed food is trash, what with them both being in cans?

Panamah
07-09-2004, 10:48 AM
It's funny, there's a brit right across from where I sit. He and I always discuss language differences. I can find as many "English-English" oddities as he can "American-English" ones. :) But anyway, bins are a generic term to us that imply something that holds a lot of something else. Like, you'd buy a big bin to hold cat food. We tend to use "can" to describe waste recepticles. Like Trash can. Which gets shorted to trash. Take out the trash. Empty the trash. Recycle bin sounds ok, but it'd probably get shorted to recycle.

I rarely publically poke fun at anyones spelling or grammer because I just don't proofread that closely. And I'm a total hack when it comes to grammer. Somehow I got through school only knowing the basics, but I read a lot and I think I absorbed most of it by simply intuiting it.

guice
07-09-2004, 11:05 AM
I'd like my mail program run spell check and grammer check on incoming mail.

And I just off, or shouldn't there be a 'to' between 'program' and 'run'?

Edit - Nix that. As I just read about. hehe, that was the first thing that hit me as I read the sentence. I'd like to get my grammar back to the way it was. It'll be a while I think. I do know my spelling sucks. I've learned to live with that.

Jinjre
07-09-2004, 11:05 AM
And I'm a total hack when it comes to grammer

*snickers*

Panamah
07-09-2004, 11:54 AM
Yes, I know you're not supposed to start sentences with and and but (conjunctives?) but in everyday usage it happens and is sort of ok.

Down with elitist grammer snobs! Just so long as you spell more or less correctly I'm happy. Dammit, coming has ONE LOUSY M! Casted is not the past tense for cast! But probably anyone who says "casted" probably has no idea what past tense means anyway. Ok, maybe I am a bit of a grammer snob.

Jinjre
07-09-2004, 12:27 PM
I'm snickering because 'grammar' has 2 a's in it, not an a and an e. *snicker*

I have no room to talk, my fingers get ahead of my brain so often I leave out important things like subjects and verbs all the time.

Panamah
07-09-2004, 12:45 PM
Well crap! I thought the original guy had spelled it grammar and that was wrong.

My fingers go faster than my brain too, or else I'm a just lousy at picking up my own mistakes. For instance, I know quite well the difference between their, there and they're but my fingers always want to use their. Its sort of like the whole process of thought to keyboard bypasses my lexical brain centers. Anyway it sounds stupid and I kick myself everytime I see I've done it again. It seems like my whole typing process is very phonetic based on the kinds of errors I make over and over. Its probably some shortcut my lazy brain has worked out just to get out of burning an extra .001 calorie per hour by not analyzing things.

Drake09
07-09-2004, 01:10 PM
Hehe :)

Gneaus
07-09-2004, 01:20 PM
b4, ne1, etc.

Seeing these predisposes me toward thinking this person is either not well educated or low intelligence. Personal peeve. No different really than other shortcuts in use. Those just tend to make me picture a young kid with a D average speaking to me. Confusing at times, especially in a game full of it's own abbreviations. I've had tells for "b9 please" at raids when they want 9s for the entire group and not just single target.

Grammatical errors can also occur when one is trying to decide what exactly to say, and how. They change their mind and leave in part of the sentence they started. Some grammar is tossed aside for the simple sake of speed and brevity. At raids, I lose all politeness, my grammer goes to hell and spelling is haphazard at best (/gu sffd! = adds!). As long as I can type it out quickly and the message gets across, that is good enough.

There are those times when you just don't know what you were thinking. I've had clerics send me a tell asking for symbol. I reply, "sure, can I have SoW please?" and buff them with 9s. Or I tell them it will cost them a peridot.

I've seen at least two guilds that had a running joke about the spelling abilities of their officers. Trying to type in haste can lead to some rather amusing times.

Panamah
07-09-2004, 01:55 PM
I knew a lawyer, a very brilliant woman, who uses short cuts like mad when typing. She'd had carpal tunnel syndrome so I think she just was trying to cut down on the number of keystrokes she had to type. So I try not to judge folks like that because it doesn't always reflect their intelligence. Also, I've known of one-handed game players too.

As far as expecting good grammar in-game, that's just going too far!

Tils
07-09-2004, 02:16 PM
So why is the Rubbish Bin called the Recycle Bin and not the Trash Can? or do they view the Recycle Bin as not a place you throw your old files in and maybe you could take them out if you were mistaken (aka a Rubbish Bin in UK) its not like you recycle the files to make new files which a Recycle Bin would emply to me, like you would put paper into a Recycle bin and it would be processed to make new paper but not the original.

hmm

Tils

Jinjre
07-09-2004, 02:21 PM
I've always wondered that myself Tils. I think Apple copyrighted the 'trash can' when they first came out with their OS, and MS was having to tread lightly when they released windows to not have everything named the same thing, otherwise Apple could have sued them. So Mac = trash can, MS = recycle bin. Icons are slightly different.

As for typos in game, I am horrible about dropping letters from words. Often I'll just send a one letter message after the first one indicating the letter that got dropped, or repeat the word that got muffed.

Panamah
07-09-2004, 02:56 PM
So why is the Rubbish Bin called the Recycle Bin and not the Trash Can? or do they view the Recycle Bin as not a place you throw your old files in and maybe you could take them out if you were mistaken (aka a Rubbish Bin in UK) its not like you recycle the files to make new files which a Recycle Bin would emply to me, like you would put paper into a Recycle bin and it would be processed to make new paper but not the original.

hmm

Tils

I think its because Microsoft wanted to sound "green" and "earth friendly". :) After all, we have landfills that are overflowing with deleted files! Deleted files are polluting our streams and waters! They're killing dolphins and kittens! Be environmentally friendly and recycle your unused bits!
:grin:

Arienne
07-09-2004, 04:37 PM
I have no room to talk, my fingers get ahead of my brain...I've never had a problem with people who type fast unless their brain never catches up. Sadly, I've met a few of those...

Fyyr Lu'Storm
07-09-2004, 05:18 PM
Yes, I know you're not supposed to start sentences with and and but (conjunctives?) but in everyday usage it happens and is sort of ok.

I find no problem with using them as a pseudo exclamation/conjuction.

I do know that it is against the rules, but I use it, generally, sparingly.

One thing I always pause on is 'anyways'. When spoken the 's' is always pronounced, when written the 's' is suppose to be omitted.

And, that brings up the word suppose, supposed to or suppose to.? or used to or use to? There is a slight pronunciation difference when spoken. My teeth gnash when I hear someone say 'supposably'.

Or irregardless. Ahhhhh!!!!

Or "Where you at?" "Where is it at?"

Fyyr Lu'Storm
07-09-2004, 05:22 PM
"I think its because Microsoft wanted to sound "green" and "earth friendly"."

Mac(Apple) already had 'Trash'.

Mine looks like this, so I never get hung up about that...

Jinjre
07-10-2004, 10:49 AM
"anyway" should not be spelled or pronounced with an s. There isn't an s there, although it is a regional dialectical pronounciation (like nukular instead of nuclear).

"supposed to": broken down it means "It is supposed that this thing will happen" so short for is "It's supposed to happen". The 'supposed' part is actually indication supposition or a guess that it will happen. Past tense of the verb.

"use to" vs. "used to": many meanings

"Paint thinner is the best thing to use to clean natural fiber brushes" is correct.
"Paint thinner was used to clean the brushes, and it destroyed them" is correct.
"I used to use paint thinner, but now I use WD40" is correct.

Irregardless is a word, and is acceptable from a grammatical standpoint, it just makes people sound like buffoons.

Panamah
07-10-2004, 11:05 AM
Yeah, but isn't it a word that was added to dictionaries not because it has any root in any language, but because people kept using it? Sort of inclusion by popular use?

Panamah
07-10-2004, 11:28 AM
ir·re·gard·less ( P ) Pronunciation Key (r-gärdls)
adv. Nonstandard
Regardless.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Probably blend of irrespective, and regardless.]
Usage Note: Irregardless is a word that many mistakenly believe to be correct usage in formal style, when in fact it is used chiefly in nonstandard speech or casual writing. Coined in the United States in the early 20th century, it has met with a blizzard of condemnation for being an improper yoking of irrespective and regardless and for the logical absurdity of combining the negative ir- prefix and -less suffix in a single term. Although one might reasonably argue that it is no different from words with redundant affixes like debone and unravel, it has been considered a blunder for decades and will probably continue to be so.

Fyyr Lu'Storm
07-11-2004, 12:34 AM
Anyway, (see that just looks funny)

"You are supposed to clean out your Recycle Bin on a regular basis", just sounds like it is either in the present or future tense.

And that makes the past tense sound awkward to me.

Main Entry: sup·pose
Pronunciation: s&-'pOz, oftenest after "I " 'spOz
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): sup·posed; sup·pos·ing
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French supposer, from Medieval Latin supponere (perfect indicative supposui), from Latin, to put under, substitute, from sub- + ponere to put -- more at POSITION
transitive senses
1 a : to lay down tentatively as a hypothesis, assumption, or proposal <suppose a fire broke out> <suppose you bring the salad> b (1) : to hold as an opinion : BELIEVE <they supposed they were early> (2) : to think probable or in keeping with the facts <seems reasonable to suppose that he would profit>
2 a : CONCEIVE, IMAGINE b : to have a suspicion of
3 : PRESUPPOSE
intransitive senses : CONJECTURE, OPINE

What is a synonym for the use I have up there? That sentence is common vernacular where I come from. Denoting 'should', but stronger.

Aluaeia
07-11-2004, 12:55 AM
I've always wondered that myself Tils. I think Apple copyrighted the 'trash can' when they first came out with their OS, and MS was having to tread lightly when they released windows to not have everything named the same thing, otherwise Apple could have sued them. So Mac = trash can, MS = recycle bin. Icons are slightly different.

As for typos in game, I am horrible about dropping letters from words. Often I'll just send a one letter message after the first one indicating the letter that got dropped, or repeat the word that got muffed.

The old Atari systems running TOS used a trash can (and referred to it as such). The icon was very reminiscent of Oscar the Grouch's can to me. (you can see the icon at http://www.atari.st/ on the left side of the screen towards the bottom)

oddjob1244
07-11-2004, 10:13 AM
So why is the Rubbish Bin called the Recycle Bin and not the Trash Can? or do they view the Recycle Bin as not a place you throw your old files in and maybe you could take them out if you were mistaken (aka a Rubbish Bin in UK) its not like you recycle the files to make new files which a Recycle Bin would emply to me, like you would put paper into a Recycle bin and it would be processed to make new paper but not the original.

I view the trash can as a place I throw something I don't want anymore, gone for good. I guess you could call the recycle bin the corner of the desk or back of the file, which is where I put files that I keep only keep because I can. That seems confusing through.
The space on your hard drive is reused to store new files, so maybe that's why it's "recycle bin" instead of the "put files here to be deleted every so often or when you run out of space bin."

Spelling and grammar errors in published documents, like advertisements, resumes, or the newspaper, drive me up the wall. However it makes me laugh every time someone tries to tear someone else down on a message board (especially on FoH's boards) or be picky on a chat program. I think of it as just trying to have a conversation and not revisiting college english paper writing again. However the Spell Check button is the larger then the other two so maybe someone is trying to change that way of thinking.

Scirocco
07-11-2004, 10:35 AM
Anyway, (see that just looks funny)


Only to you, my friend.....:)

Just an example of regional variations. "Anyways" has always looked funny to me, and I rarely ever see it written that way, unless the author is attempting to use a regional dialect.

Cloudien
07-11-2004, 08:00 PM
Ahh Norton :) That always amused me... they created "Norton Protected Recycle Bin" as like a bin-in-a-bin so that doofuses who delete something important, then empty their recycle bin with that important thing can go to the *Norton* recycle bin and bring it back :P

Takes idiot-proofing to the extreme, really. What's next, McAffee Protected Norton Protected Recycle Bin, so that you can recover with McAffee any stuff that you accidentally deleted, which you accidentally emptied from the recycle bin, followed by accidentally erasing the norton bin?

Anyway, (snicker)
I got bored of being a Grammar elitist a long time ago. It's just not worth it and makes you look a bit of a git. People tend to have legitimate reasons rather than just being lazy....

Of course, when someone writes a 3 page post and doesn't bother to create paragraphs, I might point something out.