View Full Forums : Rant: So much hate fot HoTT with Cycle Targets


Kineada
07-12-2004, 12:39 PM
I am dying more and more often since Heath of Target's Target and Cycle Target was put in. :curse: My God! These two abilities are the most evil abilities that have ever been put into the game! This is how a typical multi-pull looks for me:

Puller tells the raid "INC ummm ... a bunch!"

Cycle target, HoTT shows a knight
Cycle target, HoTT shows a shaman

You tell the raid "We're the druids that say NI! On shaman_01!"

Cycle target, HoTT shows an enchanter

You tell the raid "We're the druids that say NI! On enchanter_02!"

Cycle target, HoTT show Kineada

LOADING ... PLEASE WAIT ...

For those that didn't know, you can cycle target, cast then cycle again before casting is complete. This can get you in trouble if the knights and enchanters can't lock down incommings (or in the case of enchanters, they get a mez resist).

Unfortunately, I'm crunchy and taste good with ketchup. God! I hope iDI goes live!

Firemynd
07-12-2004, 01:18 PM
I think you meant to say iDA ...

But then, maybe it's time we stopped referring to our spells as lesser versions of what clerics have, and start using abbreviations for the actual spell names.

When we say "iCH" I'm sure in the minds of many folks who aren't familiar with druid spell numbers, they assume what we're casting is "something very close to CH, but not quite as big" .... when in reality, TR is less than 1/2 of CH for the 100% of the mana cost; KR is only 3/4 for a whopping 150% of the mana cost.

Not trying to pick at you personally. I just believe that part of the reason so many classes react negatively to druid request for improvements, is their assumption that we already have most of a cleric's healing power and lots of other stuff, when the simple truth is that we don't even come close to clerics in healing and that our "other stuff" has been marginalized and devalued.

Let's say "TR" when we mean TR, and let them ask what we're talking about if they don't know ... let them see the numbers for themselves, and perhaps gain a bit more understanding why we're having difficulties and why our requests aren't as unreasonable as they might sound.

~Firemynd

Mannwin Woobie
07-12-2004, 01:43 PM
I just believe that part of the reason so many classes react negatively to druid request for improvements, is their assumption that we already have most of a cleric's healing power and lots of other stuff, when the simple truth is that we don't even come close to clerics in healing and that our "other stuff" has been marginalized and devalued.

Good point!

Kineada
07-12-2004, 01:47 PM
Feh. Just like Fire to turn a fun rant into a serious discussion.

Arienne
07-12-2004, 01:55 PM
I SO agree Firemynd! When we first got the % heals my guildmates kept referring to the "druids CH" spell. I kept reminding them that it was a PARTIAL heal, not at all a complete heal. Even my guild leader started thining of it as a complete heal. Scarey stuff there... CH chains with druids back to back... We all learned fast that an INcomplete heal was like Asian food... you taste it and enjoy the flavor, but when you have finished it you still feel like you need more.

As for the leadership AAs... They seem to be "working as intended" otherwise you would be alive when the fight ended.

DorianBrytestar
07-12-2004, 03:20 PM
CH is a 7500 base heal spell, it is not a "complete" heal.




mwah!

Tiane
07-12-2004, 06:33 PM
I hate when I"m patch healing, assisting off a mob, then assist it and get myself O_o

Splat!

Rez please...

A story as old as druids in raids.

Firemynd
07-13-2004, 01:26 AM
CH is a 7500 base heal spell, it is not a "complete" heal.

It's a helluva lot more "complete" than 2925, isn't it.

And CH can crit for base 15,000. TR cannot crit, at all, even though druids spent the same number of AA points for Healing Gift as clerics did.

~Firemynd

Vikken
07-13-2004, 04:05 AM
Hell or even somewhere in the ballpark.


Spell Name: Karana's Renewal

Slot Description:
1: Increase Hitpoints by 4680 (75% max)

Mana: 600 Skill: Alteration
Casting Time: 10 Recast Time: 2.25
Fizzle Time: 2.5 Resist: Unresistable
Range: 100 Resist Adjust: 0
Deletable: No Fizzle Adj: 0
Time of Day: Any Dot Stacking: Yes
Location: Any AE Range: 0
Target Type: Single Spell Type: Beneficial
Source: Live 2004-04-14 12:00:37 Ratio: 7.8

Classes: DRU/64
Duration: Instant


This has been like a dead horse, I won't add my comment to except to say that how can you even suggest that CHeal is not complete when compared to the druids. Hmm, 150% mana cost (penalty 1), 50%ish value (penalty 2), and capped at 75% (penalty 3). Add in the AAs not working on it, you've got something of a problem there. Lets not get started on the fact that we don't recieve CH or equivalent at 44 like previous heal progression instead we get an even more gimped version at 58 (hello 19 levels behind) and this one doesn't come till 64.

Man, I'm way off topic...

Arienne
07-13-2004, 08:31 AM
When a focused spell can crit for something in the neighborhood of 17,500 HPs.... it's a CH.

DorianBrytestar
07-13-2004, 12:15 PM
Wow it was a joke people, sheesh.


If you want to nit pick and be precise as a point, no, something being closer is not good enough.

And just because it can crit does not make it complete either.

Firemynd
07-13-2004, 01:05 PM
There was no attempt to define the word "complete" and I did not claim that "CH" was a heal that fully restored health under any circumstance; it's simply the ACTUAL abbreviation for that spell's name. My point was that druids would be better served by using accurate abbreviations for our own spells rather than nicknaming each one as a lesser version of the spells clerics have.

And Dorian, your initial remark was the same sort of back-and-forth debating over every little semantic that most druids got tired of dealing with on the Priest Covenant board.

And Kineada, sorry for derailing your rant with another rant. ;)

~Firemynd

Kineada
07-13-2004, 01:36 PM
Karana's Renewal and Tunare's Renewal were 75% heals at the time they were made. Complete Heal was a 100% heal at the time IT was made. Tunare's Renewal healed 75% of a level 60 SOL era warrior's hitpoints and Karana's Renewal healed 75% of a level 65 PoP era warrior's hitpoints. I'm talking line warriors, not the end game VT/Time equipped warriors ... i.e. 90% of the level 65 warriors in the game at the time.

TR and KR are no longer valid heals (and to a lesser extent, CH) in todays 10khp unbuffed world. These spells will undoubtedly become even more trivial with OoW. Frankly, I hope these spells do become invalid as the game progresses. As it is, KR heals two red bubbles while CH heals three.

While I appreciate that people want to hang on to their 10 second BIG heals, I have come to understand that these heals made the game less fun. These heals are the reason that clerics make up ~30% of a raiding guild's population. And the reason why clerics HATED their raid roll (pre-GoD).

I can't speak for clerics but as a druid that (occasionally) heals, I will say that I'm having as much fun healing as I do nuking. If you look at my initial rant, you will see activity there.

Cycle, check HoTT, cycle, check HoTT, heal, cycle, check HoTT, nuke, cycle ... etc. My rant was about the dangers of doing this when mobs don't get locked down quickly enough before the heals/fire start flying and I thought it was a fun sort of rant. I was ranting because I die when I use these two features. But I can't stop using them! Because I'm enjoying myself. I certainly hope the clerics raiding with me are enjoying themselves as well. They can and do the same thing that I do.

So anyways, back to whatever it was I was talking about. TR, KR and CH are dead in the endgame. The death of TR and KR is appropriate in terms of levels and gear (KR is 2 expansions old). The death of CH is long overdue.

DorianBrytestar
07-19-2004, 07:39 PM
I was kinda used to it when doing assist healing and just ponging throught the raid..

Target someone hit assist, get badguy
hit assist, heal target, hit assist get bad guy
hit assist, heal target, hit assist get bad guy
hit assist, heal target, hit assist get bad guy
hit assist, get myself, start to heal ,WAIT MYSELF??????
WHACK WHACK WHACK
LOADING, PLEASE WAIT...


you tell tritonclerics bah, rez me, warriors need to train taunt!

(Purposefully ignoring all the spell crap because it is irrelevant and off topic and even if it was a joke it would not be taken as such)

Chenier
07-19-2004, 09:46 PM
You tell the raid "We're the druids that say NI! On shaman_01!"
BUWHAHAHHAHA!

that kicks ass =)

Toprem
07-20-2004, 04:04 AM
I die alot from debuffing, I have yet to die b/c of this. Hell I have a **** load of trouble convincing the people in my guild that HoTT is good >< had one guildy druid say it was the worst of the leader abilities...

Koldriana
07-20-2004, 08:55 AM
I love this ability. The only challenge is that my poor druid does not have it =( for some reason I have found that my cleric managed to get a whole boat load of these Leader Abilities and my poor druid is just working on her first :p