View Full Forums : Request: Swarm/dps AA for druids


Vintersorg
07-14-2004, 04:42 PM
Swarms usually do one of two things: push and/or dps. I think druids should get such an ability, and here's why...

1. DPS AA balancing

The standard argument is that druids do so much that we really shouldn't expect to get anything new. But we are decent at DPS just as we are decent at heals, so this request is not out of order.

Here's a breakdown of swarm/ dps AAs by class. (Apologies if I left anything out or have the wrong numbers.)

Swarm & DPS abilities...
Magician - Host of the Elements ~25 dps
Magician - Servant of Ro ~50 dps
Necromancer - Swarm of Decay ~45 dps
Druid - Wrath of the Wild ~2 dps
Shaman - Spirit Call ~?
Wizard - Manaburn ~n/a due to inefficiency

We also sort-of get a dps boost with SotW, but given it's refresh timer we can only use it as an emergency heal or raid mgb, not as a standard group heal, and almost never as dps. These damage shield options are lacking as far as dps AAs go.

2. Class Definition

Druids don't want to be baby clerics. Clerics don't want that either. And in GoD & OoW we are forced deeper into the role of patch healers. Our versatility has faded. I want to do more than just Patch Heal and Hand of Ro/ Illum. A small dps/ swarm AA would give us that in two ways.

A) A DPS boost for volatile situations. If something goes wrong and I've burned SotW, I'm back to chain casting Treehugger's Infusion and hoping it lands in time. I'm out of options because I can't afford the TIME to cast anything other that patch heals the way the mobs hit even if I have a nice arsenal of spells to go to. A DPS/swarm option will by-pass the casting time problem and help burn a mob in a dire situation or give us a fun toy in a more relaxed setting.

B) A variety of functions. In addition to DPS, a swarm will push. This is especially valuable for xp groups and gating mobs and raids and re-positioning mobs. The DPS becomes a bonus and we can learn about positioning and push instead of staring at the hp bars and patch, wait, patch, wait, etc. We get to learn and use a new skill, and this will wash away some of the baby-cleric image.

3. Proposal

- Pet swarm ~30 dps with a measurable push effect.
- Recast timer of 25 mins.
- Melee only, no casting.
- Mobs have ~200 hp (slightly less than Host of the elements).
- Mobs have a built in 100 point 1-shot DS.

The DPS is modest compared to other classes so this maintains the idea that we get an mid-level option that mirrors a more powerful "master" class but does not compete with them in terms of damage output. We also gain the ability to create a push which is very useful. Currently Mages, Wizards, Shaman, Necromancers, and Beastlords take care of this job with their standard summoned pets, pet swarm AAs, or pet swarm spells. I think this proposal is a workable combination of added dps and push that can be useful in a variety of situations and fits the bill for a Druid who has been and ought to be a jack-of-all-trades like the Bard.

Personally I'd like to veto the Booboo Brigade as a graphics option. Shammies have wolves, so no thanks. Werewolves or POP-era Crocs might be interesting, but both look a tad too evil. How about ravens? They fit the "master of nature" model and they're not too big/ laggy. They also hover which will be a nice unique addition to the swarms that exist now. Plus the DS is an adaption of the WotW idea as a parting gift for mobs that choose to swat them back to the trees.

Scirocco
07-14-2004, 05:16 PM
Can you show how you calculated those DPS figures?

Noken
07-15-2004, 01:53 AM
I think it's been demonstrated that the druid AA wrath of the wild is in line with the pet swarm AAs other classes get. The only difference is ours doen't have a "wow" feeling to it, just a little unresistable damage only the tank could see.

Your numbers for other classes don't take in to account the refresh time, where as the druid one does. I'd love to see parses for the swarm pet aa's though.

Nimchip
07-15-2004, 03:14 PM
I think it's been demonstrated that the druid AA wrath of the wild is in line with the pet swarm AAs other classes get. The only difference is ours doen't have a "wow" feeling to it, just a little unresistable damage only the tank could see.

Your numbers for other classes don't take in to account the refresh time, where as the druid one does. I'd love to see parses for the swarm pet aa's though.
Are you serious? Has someone parsed this against zerg pets? I'm sure WotW is way less...

Kineada
07-15-2004, 04:10 PM
Are you serious? Has someone parsed this against zerg pets? I'm sure WotW is way less...

WotW refreshes in 3 mins. Swarms take ... 30 mins? The dps numbers for the swarm pets are taken by looking at how much damage they do while they are up. It does not include the 30 mins of no damage while the ability refreshes.

If WotW were to use the swarm dps method, it would generate insanely high dps numbers. It does it's damage in 1 hit (small time damage). So big damage number divided by small time number = BIG dps number.

Grygonos Thunderwulf
07-15-2004, 04:19 PM
so we could just switch it around to 30 minutes and swarm it for situational burst dps.. ? i dunno.. just spelling out ideas without really changing its dps.

Scirocco
07-15-2004, 04:34 PM
If you're not going to change it's DPS, why bother changing it? Depending on how you measure it, WoW does great DPS for its duration (i.e., the one second it does 650 points of damage, so 650 DPS).

Teaenea
07-15-2004, 04:51 PM
WotW refreshes in 3 mins. Swarms take ... 30 mins? The dps numbers for the swarm pets are taken by looking at how much damage they do while they are up. It does not include the 30 mins of no damage while the ability refreshes.

If WotW were to use the swarm dps method, it would generate insanely high dps numbers. It does it's damage in 1 hit (small time damage). So big damage number divided by small time number = BIG dps number.

Chain casting WoW3 generates roughly 3.6 DPS. While Servant of Ro generates around 3.4 DPS (if you count it's reuse). So while that may look good on paper, one is more usefull than the other, by a wide margin. Realistically, when extra DPS is needed the 4500HP (if AA pet gives 50DPS as suggested) generated over 90 seconds is far more valuable than the 650 hp done instantly.

Sadly, druids get more DPS by clickying Velious Bracers or Kunark Arms than Wrath of the Wild3. Our old, cheap 35HP per tic free clickies generates over 5DPS.