Druid

1. Improve our healing abilities (ex: faster spot heals/new OoW spells; HG applicable to % heals; remove cap or raise cap on KR/TR; reduce mana cost on KR to 500; Nature's Recovery made useful as a HoT; healing gap for level 40-57) (currently being evaluated)

2. Fix resists on E'ci's Frosty Breath to be similar to Hand of Ro (currently being evaluated)

3. Charm issues (ex: increase CoT cap to match new hynid levels in Vxed and Tipt; new OoW charm upgrade spell) (NEW)

4. Harmony issues (ex: indoor; reduced radii should match pacify; level cap/upgrade) (NEW)

5. Snare issues (ex: upgrade to AoE snare with resist modifier; Entrap as AA skill; fewer immune mobs) (NEW)

6. Improved Aggro Management (ex: excessive aggro from early fast heals in raid situations; debuff and DoT aggro; OoW spell Thorn Guard has promise but falls far short of what is needed for high end druids in its current form) (NEW)

7. More shape changing forms and ideally special abilities for each (currently being evaluated)

8. Remove negative faction hits from wolf form line (currently being evaluated)

9. Pack pureblood/remove curse (NEW)

10. Improved run speed (ex: "Spirit of Horse" faster SoW w/o lev effects; indoor SoW; perhaps revised Spirit of Cheetah spell) (NEW)



Sound good?

/approve

looks good here..

Druid

6. Improved Aggro Management (ex: excessive aggro from early fast heals in raid situations; debuff and DoT aggro; OoW spell Thorn Guard has promise but falls far short of what is needed for high end druids in its current form) (NEW)


Suggestion:

6. Improved Aggro Management (ex: excessive aggro from early fast heals in raid situations; debuff and DoT aggro; OoW spell Thorn Guard has promise but falls far short of what is needed for high end druids in its current form) through the use of agro lowering spells. (NEW)

10. Improved run speed (ex: "Spirit of Horse" faster SoW w/o lev effects; indoor SoW; perhaps revised Spirit of Cheetah spell) (NEW)WOOT!

So, there's one deleted from the old list I'm interested in:

9. Improve Treeform line (ex: movement, better stats, better mana regen, useable in at least every zone with trees, is seen by npcs as a tree not a pc,etc) (currently being evaluated)

It even had a "currently being evaluated" state! I think this could be a useful spell if they'd open up the global file for it, you know with the Ent idea. It's been a wish that has been well received by SOE, dating quite a ways back.

Honestly, I think it has a better chance then group cures. If they did cures for us then they'd have to do it for Clerics and Shaman as well, and frankly group cures have been in their domain more then ours.

Otherwise, excellent list. And even though I don't agree with removing number 9, I wanted to say great work Scirocco!!

Edit: If SOE is receptive to Group cures for all priests, then awesome! In that case, I'd still like to see a useful global treeform moreso then dealing with wolfform faction. Personal preference.

I agree with the list posted, except this one:
4. Harmony issues (ex: indoor; reduced radii should match pacify; level cap/upgrade)

If Harmony of Nature is made castable indoors, keeping the current aggro radius reduction (which isn't as good as Pacification) would justify keeping the lower mana cost. To be fair, if the spell is retuned to work the same as paci, it should cost the same mana.... or, the cost of Paci should be lowered to match HoN. Either is fine with me. Same should apply to the new harmony/lull spells coming in OoW.

weoden: through the use of agro lowering spells.

If our fast heals and DoTs generate more aggro than they should, the fix should simply involve lowering the amount of aggro generated.. i.e. edit the code. Point is, we shouldn't have to keep additional spells memorized and spend more mana to offset heals or DoTs that cause more aggro than appropriate.

Having said that, I wouldn't oppose the idea of giving druids a spell along the lines of 'Voice of Terris' to help our tanks keep aggro better; a DS with an aggro modifier that stacks with VoT would be great. But let's get the aggro from our existing spells fixed first.

~Firemynd

Woeden:
I'm not too keen on a spell to reduce aggro. All along SOE hasn't been too receptive to it either. I would like to see the aggro reduction as we once had in our healing spells. We would still have to balance aggro from debuffs and damage spells, but at least throwing healing into that mix in a fight wouldn't kill us right off the bat.

Scirocco:
Are those the general thoughts you have seen about Harmony? I'd be happy to have our ORIGINAL harmony back as an upper level spell. I don't need to replace a cleric as a pacifier indoors, but I would dearly love to be asked to harmony a MoB for raid pulling in outdoor zones because I am the BEST at outdoor pacification.

All in all... great list Scirocco and ALL the druids who made it happen! :thumbs2:

a DS with an aggro modifier

They tried that. It was a catastrophe. It was put in to discourage power leveling but what it ended up doing was trivialize aggro lock for warriors (bard + mage + shaman potion + WotW + SotW = insane snap aggro on the first hit)

The parenthetical examples are not all-inclusive, just representative of some of the top items that have been mentioned.

Moving treeform would be @&(#ing awesome. <3

It looks like a good list. I would rank Harmony and Snare higher that Charm, but that's just a play style preference for me. Items 7-10 are minor to me (but I can understand their importance to others).

About aggro management, my guild is mid-way into GoD now (Qvic and Inktu'ta), and while aggro is still an issue it's something I can handle (that's calling one death per raid from healing aggro being tolerable, but I can still do better). And no aggro deaths in PoTime, but that's the difference in the mob difficulty for those two expansions.

What I'm saying is the tools I have to work with, AA's and gear, coupled with the AA's and skills of our tanks takes care of a lot of aggro problems. In a practical sense, a druid's skill has to include knowledge of who he is healing and whether the tanks are able to hold aggro if he is slightly early with a heal. I don't need better control of my aggro from healing, I need upgraded healing tools to let me heal 12k+ hp tanks. But, that's just my opinion. :)

Rolaque

Ky has just told me that the ranking does not matter on the list. If a class feels that an item is the topmost, highest priority item, then to let SOE know. I told her that healing was still clearly no. 1.

So don't waste any brain cells on relative rankings.

As for treeform, when I push the final revised list to SOE I'll say that treeform issues really ought to be dealt with as part of our general shapechanging category (i.e., treant form as a new form).

Great list, Scirocco.

Not to offend anyone, but I think we should completely forget about Treeform. We spend a lot of time and energy coming up with ways to "help" it (and some of them are good) but it's really never been a core part of ANY Druid's playstyle.

My suggestion would be to concentrate on the items on the list rather than introduce peripheral issues.

/shrug

I suppose #7 could encompass the Treeform issues:

7. More shape changing forms and ideally special abilities for each (currently being evaluated)

Just the fact that it is 'currently being evaluated' suggests they're at least open to the idea of adding to the global model file. Perhaps they are more able to do so with the upcoming graphics engine change.

Anyway, could you add an "ex:" to number 7 saying "Ent model on Treeform, Snare speed, stacks with pot9+, usable in all outdoor zones, AC/mitigation bonus (wishlist)"?

Yeah we'd like to see more forms then just Tree/Ent, but it sure is a logical start; we have it already, albeit in a very broken form! :D

How about:

7. More shape changing forms and ideally special abilities for each (ex: treant, griffin/drake, horse form, nearest animal) (currently being evaluated)


I don't want to get too detailed in the parentheticals on the summary list, lest the parentheticals consume the entire thing. Try to stuff too much stuff in, and it will get lost (or not considered).

8. Remove negative faction hits from wolf form line (currently being evaluated)
Sigh.

/e clicks and click and clicks and clicks his Camo spell off

I'm sorry. But I post and post and post. And I just get ignored. So here it is yet again. There is more to this than just one thing. Don't ask for a crumb when you should get the whole pie.

This is what is needed to fix wolf form:

1.) Faction issues. This was the main part listed. Changing into a wolf shouldn't alter your faction at all with almost all NPCs / mobs. Only in a few rare cases should your faction be altered as a wolf.

Examples of the exceptions are:
a.) Unrest should remain a place where the mobs ignore wolves.
b.) Gorenaire can continue to hate wolves / illusions if SOE really wants that.
c.) If I recall correctly, Kithicor Forest has an NPC that you need to give something to for the druid epic. This NPC will attack druids unless they are in wolf form. Naturally, the NPC should continue to give wolves a break.
d.) Lesser Faydark brownie merchants should continue to shop with wolves.
e.) Certain other merchants should also continue to shop with wolves.
f.) Several other exceptions should be made, however 99% of mobs and NPCs should see the wolf form druid with exactly the same faction as the non wolf form druid.

2.) The wolf form attack animation should be changed or removed. People decline to become wolves because the animation makes them queasy.

3.) Wolf form spells should be adjusted to be useful. People decline to become wolves because the benefits are almost non existent.

4.) Every wolf form spell should work both indoors and outdoors. LDoN gave us a few new wolf spells that work indoors. However, adding even more spells with different effects just makes it more confusing and difficult. The LDoN wolf form spells should be removed from the game, the adventure points refunded and all wolf from spells should work both indoors and outdoors.

5.) Wolf form spells should overwrite the Mask spells. Unless the number of buff slots is increased for players, the wolf form spell of the correct level should have the same effects as the Mask spell, add the extra effects (such as movement increase), and replace it in the buff box. This would entail creating new wolf form spells to match the Mask spells. The only reason the Mask spells were created in the first place was to replace wolf form when it was badly nerfed. I think Mask spells should remain in the game but if you use the same level wolf spell, it should overwrite it with the same effects plus the wolf form extra effects.

6.) As entailed above, all wolf form spells should be adjusted and some new ones added to the game.

7.) SOE should understand that wolf form is fun! I love being a wolf just because it is so cool. Fun is what a game is about. The destruction of wolf form told all druids and rangers that fun was bad.

8.) Wolf form should remain upon players after zoning. The only reason I am glad it doesn't currently is because evacing into an area where the NPCs hate wolf form will get you killed. Fixing the faction problem would remove that problem. Since the wolf graphic is now in the global file, there is no need to strip it from players when zoning because you can now (in theory) be a wolf in every zone.

This is wolf form.

As for the rest:

A good FAST heal is needed.

And aggro should be reduced for our healing. Adding yet another spell isn't the optimal answer, since we only get eight spell gems and frankly, very few people have the GoD spells, how hard is getting the new spells going to be?

Just reduce the aggro from our spells a bit.

I'm sorry. But I post and post and post. And I just get ignored. So here it is yet again. There is more to this than just one thing. Don't ask for a crumb when you should get the whole pie.


Fanra,

I did not form the original list. It was made by SOE taken from the top 20 items mentioned in a thread on druid issues at the SOE boards. Item No. 8 was as listed by SOE.

Frankly, all class lists were a mix of highly specific issues and general topics that included several issues that could probably be broken out into issues in their own right. Wolfform faction issues apparently was brought up as a specific issue several times over on the SOE boards, which is why it made it on the list as you see it.

I cannot willy-nilly change the list to my own desires, or even the desires of a subgroup of druids. Thus, I have to take the list in its original form as it exists, and take the opportunity to add the most critical issues that the majority of the druid community (which is not limited to TDG) when I can. I am, in fact, pushing the envelope a bit by moving treeform up to general shape issues (as treant form), but there were a sizable number of comments from various druids that that issue in particular ought to be removed or moved. (Some druids think the same about wolf form, I might add.)

How about adding "improved wolf form" to the shapechanging parenthetical? It at least would serve as an entree to bringing in your various wolf form improvement ideas in a future discussion with SOE on that issue.

Thank you Scirocco, that list looks good :). And thanks to everyone who helped with ideas.

2.) The wolf form attack animation should be changed or removed. People decline to become wolves because the animation makes them queasy.Yeah, but not the 3rd person animation. There should be a choice for the person in wolf form in 1st person view. Like on the options screen "[ ] attack animation in shifted forms".
4.) Every wolf form spell should work both indoors and outdoors. LDoN gave us a few new wolf spells that work indoors. However, adding even more spells with different effects just makes it more confusing and difficult. The LDoN wolf form spells should be removed from the game, the adventure points refunded and all wolf from spells should work both indoors and outdoors.This would be a HUGE boost. It would be indoor SoW II basically, since wolf is faster then SoW. I think we'd have a hard time getting this portion out of SOE.

Other then that, /agree Fanra! Nice work spearheading wolf issues btw. I know we each have issues dear to our tree-hugging selves; mine for instance is movement marginalization over the years, and am glad to see the Cheetah upgrade example!! Cheetah Form!! WWOOOOOooo.. that'd be fun. :D

Again, nice work Scirocco!!

/stamp approval

I cannot willy-nilly change the list to my own desires, or even the desires of a subgroup of druids. Thus, I have to take the list in its original form as it exists, and take the opportunity to add the most critical issues that the majority of the druid community (which is not limited to TDG) when I can.
Thank you for responding. I was sure that I must have left camo on because my posts were invisible.

The thread is called Proposed Revised Druid Top 10 Issues List. Therefore, I Propose that number eight:

8. Remove negative faction hits from wolf form line (currently being evaluated)

Be changed to:

8. Remove negative faction hits from wolf form line and revise entire wolf form spell line (currently being evaluated)

This would leave the door open for the rest of the issues with wolf form.

I just don't want SOE removing the faction from wolf form and then declaring the problem fixed, move along, nothing to see here.

Since they are taking up one entire point out of only ten with wolf form (to the chagrin of some who don't think wolf form is worth this) at least let's get all the problems with wolf form looked it.

Because it might be another three years before wolf form is ever looked at again.

The thread is called Proposed Revised Druid Top 10 Issues List.


Heh....this isn't a request for new proposed issues. That was the other thread. I have incorporated all the comments and input from that thread (and similar threads on other boards) to form this revised list, which is what I propose communicating to SOE.

long post incoming.. and no cliff notes...

Well I know you don't want to get drug down in the details too much, but I think the Dev's need some details so they know what direction we want to go... So anyhow I made up a list that I think is reasonable.

First off, let me say that my intent with this list is to mold our current abilities into something more useful, not to create wholly new and unbalancing abilities (although #4 and #6 approach that). We need to acknowledge that any significant improvements to any class (not just druids) as a whole MUST come at some cost (to that class), but this does not mean that fixing things that are broken can not be done. Every item on this list should be read by the majority of people as “yea that’d be nice, but it needs to be more!” so that we might actually get something changed. I firmly believe in a take nibbles approach to class balance.. err.. “definition”.
So without too much regard to balance, I decided to focus on definition. My definition of the druid class is VERSATILE. The druid class, perhaps more than any other, is make or break depending on the player behind the toon. We have (and should have) a wealth of tools at our expense, it is knowing which tools to use, how, and when that separates the druids from the drOOds.
I do not want to become a cleric. I do not want to become a wizard or mage. I want to remain versatile, where I can fill most rolls in most groups reasonably well assuming I have some help. I’d love for people to think “hey we need a DPS/backuphealer/puller…”, “ get that lfg druid he can do it good enough for us to continue on”. I want to be able to log in for 1 hour while my daughter naps and be able to do something meaningful. I want to go on a raid and be able to alternate between spot healing and nuking as needed. I do not want people to feel druids are a needed class (e.g., the holy trinity), but rather that a well played druid can always add something to a group. I want druids to keep stacking perfectly (i.e., more that one druid in a group is OK).

So, without further ado, here is my list of suggested druid class improvements (using many of Scirocco’s points listed, sorry about the re-ordering of the numbers though). I grouped things up a bit, that I feel fall into the same category, and explain/provide examples to help lead to what I think is a a reasonable (i.e., something the dev’s might go for) solution to each. Feel free to take an idea and run with it, but realize that nothing can be “too good”. Making any one thing great will, in the end, result in a” no change intended”, and rightly so. We must be especially carefull of this with AA forms, healing improvements, and regen lines. Lastly, don’t forget people, keeping the druid class FUN should be the number one priority of all fixes.


1. Improve our healing abilities (OLD - currently being evaluated)

Druids seek to be able to serve as an efficient primary healer only in trivial content. We defined trivial content as content that, due to levels, AA’s, and gear, brings little risk to the group and thus offers little reward.

In challenging content we seek to have the capability to assist clerics in healing, specifically spot healing. We feel that our spot heals lack both the speed and power to effectively spot heal in non-trivial content. We would like the Dev. Team to look at reducing the casting time and increasing the amount healed on druid non-percentage heals while maintaining efficiency ratios (HP healed per mana) as currently balanced to that of the cleric class. This would provide a druid with the ability to assist the cleric with damage spikes in non-trivial content without the ability to replace the cleric class.

To further assist via healing in raid encounters we would like to have the healing gift AA line (and AHG) affect our % heals. While such an change is random and generally unreliable, we feel that it would assist the instances when a druid needs to fill in for a cleric in a complete heal chain. We feel that the unreliable nature of the HG line will prevent this from being unbalance outside of raid situations.

We do recognize the concerns of the cleric class, specifically, that a well equipped druid can often replace a, comparatively, poorly equipped cleric (e.g., an elementally equipped druid with 200+ AA in BoT), but feel the situation is highlighted by the nature of the Planes of Power expansion (i.e., many well equipped (including AA) players still find significant reward in “lower tier” zones).


2. Fix resists on E'ci's Frosty Breath to be similar to Hand of Ro (OLD - currently being evaluated)



3. Increasing Druids’ Burst-Regenerative Abilities (NOT HoT’s)

3a).Nature’s Recovery (The original big regen, not HoT)
In light of the recent changes made to the regeneration line, we feel that our spell “Nature’s Recovery” NR has become insignificant and is need of a boost and a possible upgrade to the line. Surely this spell was intended to be a short lasting, larger regen (i.e., NOT a Heal over Time), and should be unable to counter the damage output of mob. We feel the intended and desired potential of this spell (line) is not to counter the offensive prowess of a mob, but to allow a druid to boost the regeneration rate of a specific group member in need due to an agro imbalance (e.g., a wizard or mage that was hit once suffering 20% loss of HP) while allowing the focus of the healing to be on the MT.

In order to maintain the balance of the game at the level the spell is obtained, we feel it should be scaled up by the same percentage as the regeneration spell at that level. Regrowth was increased from +15 to +20 hp/tick, a boost of 33%, while replenishment was boosted from +25 to 40 hp/tick, a boost of 60%. We thus as that NR be increased from +30 hp/tick to +45 hp/tick a boost of 50% (making it 225% more potent per tick than regrowth (originally was 200%) at 83% the mana cost, being overall less efficient due to only lasting 30% as long.

Further, we ask that this single spell which introduced a unique, but not overpowering ability (i.e., a fast regen, not a HoT) be expanded into a spell line with an upgrade path similar to that of our group regenerations spell line. This allows druids to maintain this ability through progression without overpowering druids at the level 60 range. Ideally, this would place a similar spell achieved at level 63 under PoP progression (perhaps a fun quest). At this level we feel the relative power of this spell line compared to our regen line should be maintained allowing it to heal +120 HP/tick, three times the potency of replenishment, for a mana cost of 230 Mana (83% that of replenishment) but still only lasting 3 minutes, only 15% as long as replenishment. We encourage the future development of this burst regeneration (i.e., a fast regeneration, but clearly unable to fully offset the dps of any worthwhile mob).


3b) Boosting Nature’s Boon
Druids feel that NR was the foundation for the “burst regeneration” concept and would like to see this AA incorporated more meaningfully. Specifically, as the originators of “burst regeneration” and in light of the recent regeneration boosts, druids would like to see the amount regenerated by our ward (nature’s boon) increased, especially at later (and quite expensive) levels. Indeed the intent of the ward should not be to significantly offset the damage of any worthy MOB’s, but instead decrease the amount of attention needed by the non-tank classes. Keeping with our suggested incorporation of a “burst-regen” line, we feel that this AA should max out to be equivalent to (the new) “burst-regen” spell, +125 HP/tick (scaling as 25, 50, 75, 100, and 125 per level). By keeping the ward susceptible to area effect spells we feel this AA would maintain it’s balance by NOT trivializing lower end raids. We feel that increasing the level of the effect cast by each ward will prevent their use in trivializing power-leveling. We would also like to teach our wards to follow us, or follow anyone designated the main assist to allow their practical use in non-camp adventures.



4. More shape changing forms and ideally special abilities for each (OLD - currently being evaluated)
We would like these abilities to come to the druid class as a form of alternative advancement. The rules of these forms are to follow the rules of mounts largely. Specifically,

All forms should take one buff slot, which can be clicked off at any time and will be removed if the /dismount command is given (similar to a mount). All forms should stack with all other buffs except other illusion buffs and any mounts unless specified. In fact, all these forms could be considered versions of mounts, like knight horses (should make coding easier... I think), but none suffer the starting – stopping issue unless specified, the ducking issue unless specified, and none reap the benefits of mounts unless specified (should make coding easier.. I think).

All forms should have the factions should remain the same as those of the caster (i.e, no negative hits unless specifically for all illusions). All forms should remain on through zoning (unless forbidden in the zone being zoned into) similar to enchanter’s scale wolf. All of these forms are not overwritten by group wolf form line to allow it’s use in groups, or all AA forms refresh immediately. Lastly, all forms should cost roughly 9 AA each.

Since druids have several roles to perform, largely situation dependant, it would be great to have forms that would emphasis each ascpect. Some ideas for such forms are:

Form of the Pheonix/Griffon:
Turns the druid into a phoenix(Arlyxir like model) or a Griffon (Eastern Wastes model) which provides an increased movement rate (Bard speed), ultra-vision, levitation, and +100 CHA (for harmony of nature…). This form and can NOT be used on a mount. This form can NOT be used indoors. This form over-writes FoE/SoW. (Pulling)

AA Form of the Shrew:
Turns the druid into a rat, which provides ultra-vision, increased run speed (run speed 5), increased avoidance (rats can dodge!), decreased mitigation (go splat easy), and spell agro reduction (-5%, stacks with SCS3… no one notices a rat). This form can ONLY be used indoors, and thus can NOT use a mount. (Indoor- all purpose)

AA Form of the Flounder:
Turns the druid into a seahorse/fish (using a current zone model), which provides everlasting breath, increased movement rate (FoE speed), reduced risk of spell casting interruption due to motion, levitation (so we don’t sink), and increased mana regeneration (use mount meditation here… after all fish don’t sit or duck). This form can NOT be used on a mount. This form can ONLY be used underwater. (I know mounts check this somehow…) This form can NOT forage (like a mount). This form suffers the speed-up and slow-down effects of a mount. (Water zones, few and far between. Really not much most won’t already have.. but fun the inability to duck is a large sacrifice, which is made to be able to cast better underwater)

AA Call of the Wild:
Turns the druid into a wolf (the best looking one of course) and provides increase movement rate (FoE speed), ultra-vision, zoom, and increased avoidance. This form can NOT be used a mount. This form can NOT be used indoors. (everyday life - Outdoors)

AA Call of Tunare:
Turns the druid into a tree and provides the increased mana regeneration of a mount at all time (permanent yaulp for mana regen), increased HP regenation (+25/tick, self only, stacks with all), spell agro reduction (-10%, stacks with SCS3), decreased movement rate (75%), increased mitigation, decreased avoidance (i.e., none), and increased self DS (+20). This form can NOT be used on a mount. This form overwrites all movement speed modifiers (FoE/SoW), any form of levitation, and the self DS line. This form’s movement is not effected by AA run speed. This form can be used indoors and outdoors. (This form allows a druid to sacrifice mobility (basically all) for the ability to more effectively (less agro)help out the group via healing or dps.)

None of these forms are meant to be un-balancing, but instead allow the druid to become slightly more specialized based on the surroundings and situation. In fact we feel that some of the other druid issues (mainly agro management) can be helped through these AA’s...and they would definitely make the game more fun.



5. Wolf Form Spell Line

Remove negative faction hits from wolf form spell line, except for negative faction hits involving “illusions” (i.e, ALL illusions). Remove first person attacking animation (so people want it). Allow it to stack with all other buffs while adding +ATK +STR (so it might get used in groups.. not raids because it will use a buff slot)



6. Further Aggro Management via our existing tree line

In hopes that tree form will become an AA form (see above). Make spell line of tree form such that it turns the druid into a tree, effectively wiping the current agro list (-lots of hate). To balance this make this spell removes all buffs, and converts 25% of current mana pool into 10% max hp (after buffs are gone) each tick until mana is gone or it is clicked off. Increase casting speed, and increase recast time to make it inline with DA/DB. Now we have the druidic way to dump agro, it does NOT make you non-KOS, preventing exploitsk, but it does drop you to the bottom of the list, at a hefty cost (keeping balance), loosing all your buffs (much worse than DA). Plus it can be used to regen some hp back, at the cost of mana (much worse than DB).


7. Revisit the Harmony spell line.

Increase the spell cap so that we can harmony as good as bards can lull. I would much rather see butterfly’s than hear their bad singing. Review the outdoor restriction on harmony, or add a less efficient indoor version as well. Perhaps a new indoor AE version that has a high (400) mana cost would work.

8. Snare Issues

As the parent class of rangers, druids feel the Entrap AA skill should be available to us. Furthermore, we feel a direct upgrade to Ensnare (with only the resist check modified) is needed to counter the large number of resists encountered on higher level mobs. This particularly effects the game when encounters are designed to be brief, yet the MOB’s flee rate (speed) is high. We also feel that the number of snare-immune MOB’s needs to be re-evaluated. We would like the Dev. Team to consider “snare- mitigation” as a part of future work, such that it functions similar to slow-mitigation. This way, there can be less snare-immunity, because having each snare land for a random amount (or by having run speeds of mobs be random) will eliminate the benefits of quadding and other means of swarm XP’ing.

9. “Animal” Issues

Druids feel our charming ability has been unjustly limited in comparison to other classes. As one of the only two classes having a charm line throughout their progression, we feel that druids should be able to charm “animals” of equivalent level to other classes. We also feel that our fear-animal line, is in need of an upgrade, as it is our only spell line other than our MR debuff, that assists us in our charming, as it always was. The greatest limitation to druid charming is, and always has been, what MOB’s are considered animals. We feel the list of “animals” needs to be reviewed. Lastly, the increased casting time and refresh time of our charm line is very detrimental to our efforts, even in a group setting. We would like both of those lowered in exchange for a higher mana cost if needed. We acknowledge that with the exponential growth of MOB prowess, charming has the capability to “break the game” and support efforts made to bring the power of charming inline, but feel as one of the original “charm classes” we should maintain abilities equivalent to other classes (to animals only, of course).

10. Pack pureblood/remove curse

We would like to see the introduction of a group version of pureblood/remove curse introduced into the game. The presence of remove curse and quickened curing has helped, but we would like a group version that has a short duration buff (i.e., bard window for one tick) so that we may cast this spell on other groups (i.e., can use /tgb for raids).


Anyhow those are my thoughts. (long, I know) I think many would agree with my ideas on how the 10 points can be implemented.. if not speak up! I really think posing both the problems and reasonable solutions will make the Dev's much more receptive and expedite the process.

Lastly, thanks for your hard work Scirocco and others. :cheers:

-Syppion, The Namelesss

Shape changing like that would bring back all the joy to this game. It would really make druids unique again. Every other druid mythos includes radical shape changing, so should Norrath.

Heh....this isn't a request for new proposed issues. That was the other thread. I have incorporated all the comments and input from that thread (and similar threads on other boards) to form this revised list, which is what I propose communicating to SOE.
Scirocco, I'm trying to correct the mistake that got the issue of wolf form put in narrow terms.

Since the beginning, I have said that there were multiple things wrong with wolf form. No one paid attention to that and just put on the list "fix faction".

So SOE looked at it and said, "They want wolf form faction fixed and then everything will be fine with it".

I'm trying to correct this before they fix faction and then announce that: "We fixed wolf form as you requested and we will not hear anything else about it. Maybe one day in the far future we will look into it again but we are done with the issue now."

This is what they have done in the past.

If we don't demand that they look at the entire wolf form issue, they will do it again and we will have to wait another three years for it to be brought up again.

Since an ENTIRE issue of the limited ten is about wolf form, let's have them do the job and get it fixed right so we don't have to go back to them and have them tell us we had our chance and they are not going back to it again.

The list needs to be more descriptive so that the devs now exactly what we are wanting. One or two sentence fragments don't do that. Make a short inculsive general statement about the item we what changed. Then you can include specific examples and more info to makes sure that the item is understood. Look at the wizard list for an example of what I mean. They say what they want. Then include different ideas about how to approach the problem and/or links to specific data and threads for more detailed information.

The things like changing forms could go something like this.

7. Many druids would like to see an expansion of our illusion lines for fun and utility. We would like more usefulness added to our current illusions.

a) Faction is an issue with wolfform. Normal wildlife should not have an issue with another animal in zone. Druids often find themselves KOS in many zones where a wolf shouldn't be. Most of the negative faction are at issue with wolfform.

b) Treeform is in need of revision. Many of our buffs have stacking issues with treeform that make the spell useless. We also believe that at least one form should be indifferent (rooted if necessary) for medding or going afk safely in outdoor zones. NPCs should not be attacking trees. :)

c) Attack animations should be revised or removed from wolfform. Many group members do not want it because the animation while in combat makes them nautious/dizzy while in 1st person. (prefer removing the lunge part of the animation)

d) Expanded nature from that druids could take on. Could include special skills/abilities. Nature themed forms like griffons, bears, treants, horse, nearest animal.

Thats what I mean. Something like this really gives SOE an idea about what we are wanting. It also allows them to evaluated different parts separately without throwing the bady out with the bathwater so to speak.

I'm not entirely sure these lists help at all. I mean, the monk one, which lists wanting more options for robes and chestwraps, is now marked done... after they put in an npc to turn caster robes into caster tunics... umm thanks?

So yeah, best be *very* descriptive and specific, or they'll do something that has no relation to what you were asking for and mark it done heh.

The list needs to be more descriptive so that the devs now exactly what we are wanting. One or two sentence fragments don't do that. Make a short inculsive general statement about the item we what changed. Then you can include specific examples and more info to makes sure that the item is understood. Look at the wizard list for an example of what I mean. They say what they want. Then include different ideas about how to approach the problem and/or links to specific data and threads for more detailed information.As a developer, I like to know specifics, not generalities when people come to me asking for a change or improvement in my applications. (Of course, when they are vague, I go right to the source and ask what they mean specifically.) Seems to me SOE developers wouldn't be that much different from me ;P No one really wants to be a mind reader. Do they? So, being more specific as to why we feel something isn't working or working as we feel it should and how we'd like to see it changed would seem to benefit both druids and developer.

But um ... not with the attitude on that wizard list. I'd not want to touch some of those requests from the way they are worded.


That said ...

There seems to be a persistent view that druids should always only be a backup healer to a cleric, but is that realistic? When in a group, are you always grouped with a cleric? Was my understanding that the problem with healing wasn't just the amount of clerics required on raids, but that groups cannot always get clerics. Requiring a druid to only be able to heal a group as long as there is a cleric in the group doesn't address that problem at all.

I'm not completely keen on the idea that a druid must always have a backup healer to be able to heal in non trivial content, but I can accept that. It would make no difference in the makeup of my groups, but healing improvements to allow druids to heal all content without a cleric, but with a shaman or pally backup healer, could let my groups to play in content a little less trivial.

Solving the healing discrepancy by giving druids better heals that are drastically less efficient than cleric heals also doesn't exactly help anything. The driving force from what I've seen is to get exp as fast as possible. Trivial content seems to be ok ... as long as groups can generate a non stop flow of experience. Wouldn't forcing a group to stop and med because the druid is OOM from healing make druids unacceptable as healers in all but the most trivial content ... where healing isn't even an issue?


There are two important issues with healing. One is the raid situation where guilds are required to recruit more clerics than any other class so they have sufficient clerics for raiding purposes. Downside to this is that guilds cannot support that amount of clerics in guild groups ... unless the excess clerics needed to raid are alts/bots for other members.

I shouldn't have to 2box a cleric or switch from my druid main to a cleric alt to be valuable to my guild.

The second is the need for groups to be able to take any priest class as main healer for any content without requiring a cleric as a backup healer.

And all of this needs to be looked at not just from the level 65 situation, but from multiple levels.

Heh....people always want to include too much detail in "executive summaries." It might be better to drop the parenthetical examples entirely.

"example lists provided upon request"??? But I do agree that what SOE may think fixes an issue may not for us... or even make it worse! I hope as the druid representative that they ARE coming to you, Scirocco and asking "what does this mean?" if they don't know. I think SOE assumptions are usually incorrect as they don't seem to play the same game in the same style as most players :/

Another thing tho... where I might see an issue like wolf form "fixed" if the anumations and overwrite issues are changed, another druid may feel it's still broken if faction isn't fixed, too.

Heh....people always want to include too much detail in "executive summaries." It might be better to drop the parenthetical examples entirely.
Listen to what the man says. If need be, a secondary, more detailed list describing the "bullets" can be written, but the "Late Night With Scirocco Top Ten List" should be the primary objective.

When Scir presents it, he can mention he is available for more description or he has a more detailed version available, or something. =)

I agree with the list as an "Executive Summary."
Great job - it's not easy condensing everything down like that! :flipbg:

I hope as the druid representative that they ARE coming to you, Scirocco and asking "what does this mean?" if they don't know.

Actually, my plan is more to go to them with more specific suggestions under each heading, rather than wait for them to come to me.

One of the balancing acts we have to perform here is the number of issues. For example, a specific issue could be something like "Reduce SotW timer to 15 minutes." Compare that with a broad topic like "Improve druid healing," which arguably contains 10 to 20 specific issues of comparable scope to the SotW timer issue (e.g., "HG should apply to KR and TR"). In fact, I would have thought something like "Improve druid healing" would have been far too broad for this type of "Top 10 Issues" list, but it was put together by SOE's folks that way, so I'll take the ball and run with it.

I don't want to choke this particular line of communication with too much information all at once. Putting it together in digestible chunks, with the Top 10 list as an executive summary to serve as a checklist, seems to me to be the best way to keep it open and functioning.

I suppose the "executive summary" could be presented with a secondary, more detailed, but still concise, list that expands where necessary on bullets. Seems better to prepare and present the information together, instead of assuming that information might be requested later.

"2. Fix resists on E'ci's Frosty Breath to be similar to Hand of Ro" isn't really subject to different interpretations.

"1. Improve our healing abilities" is subject to as many interpretations as there are readers.

But as currently written ...

"1. Improve our healing abilities (ex: faster spot heals/new OoW spells; HG applicable to % heals; remove cap or raise cap on KR/TR; reduce mana cost on KR to 500; Nature's Recovery made useful as a HoT; healing gap for level 40-57)" is concise, yet detailed enough to show exactly what we're requesting.

A lot of headaches and frustrations can be avoided by not assuming others are on the same page. Writing a novel per bullet isn't necessary :grin:

Actually, my plan is more to go to them with more specific suggestions under each heading, rather than wait for them to come to me.
Um ... that works too ;)

I feel that the Druid offensive/evocation department is being neglected.

Unless its part of the benefits of one of the druid metamorphisms includes an improved damage focus =)

In general, I'm glad druid illusions are being evaluated.
To be fair about it, i think there should be a number of indoor illusions, outdoor illusions, and some that work for both.
In addition, I think druids should have command over some were-forms, like werewolves and werebears (heheh and wererats like Master Splinter? :lol: ).

I think Syppion's idea on the different animal forms are pretty on target, just maybe need some another indoor only illusion besides rat!

I feel that the Druid offensive/evocation department is being neglected.


Too late to get it in the next iteration. I don't remember it even being in the top 20 a month ago (but I'd need to go back and look).

What is wrong with druid evocation spells at this point? And if you're going to argue for our DDs to increase, it would be best to have some numbers to back up the argument.

I don't remember it even being in the top 20 a month ago (but I'd need to go back and look).
There were very few druid comments about our nukes. It certainly did not make the "executive summary" I took it to the Summit.

First off - again many thanks to Scirocco for such a great job. :buttrock:

There were very few druid comments about our nukes. It certainly did not make the "executive summary" I took it to the Summit.

The basic point is most druids have embraced/resigned themselves to the role of primary healer being our role. If SoE were to come out and say - the one MH paradigm stays there wont be any improvements to druid healing then we'd obviously have to be balanced around DPS with concomitant improvements to our nukes, DoTs, and charm/pet spells.

With so many other DPS classes in the game now I kind of doubt they'll go that route.

In a few places in the original top 20 it was suggested that our needs really depended on our definition and that we should either be 80% healers and 50% nukers or 80% nukers and 50% healers (relative to clerics and wizards) and so most of the top 10 is centered on placing us as 80% healers and leaving us around 50% nukers. The basic point was whichever direction we went leaving us at 55%/55% was not cool.

Are these ranked in any order? I'd like to see them organized as follows: 1, 3, 4, 7, 6, 5, 9, 2, 8. :)

Tracking...
If I were a Ranger, I'd have on my wish list the same track that the cheaters who run showEQ enjoy. And as a Druid, I want the "lite" version of the Ranger version. Tracking from a pull down list doesn't cut it anymore.

As I look over the list (and fine list it is) I am concerned that as we close the gap on the healer roll we run a high risk of losing ground on our DPS roll. I'd log of forever if my Druid moved any closer to imitating a Cleric. I fear the not-on-the-list-not-addressed mentality. No pigeon holing of my class is allowed. :)

Thank you for the work you and the others have done on this.

[QUOTE=Scirocco]I feel that the Druid offensive/evocation department is being neglected.

Too late to get it in the next iteration. I don't remember it even being in the top 20 a month ago (but I'd need to go back and look).
[QUOTE]

There is no nukers covenant forum. It's abundantly clear that the Druids that frequent this board are slanted towards a healer bias. I suspect this is because this is where our guilds need us the most. It is without question where Druids can make the biggest impact, not to be yet another DPS class character with a nuke that just doesn't have the same pop it once did in PoP.

I'm willing to bet that our charm concerns won't be satisfied and even if they are, there will issues and nerfs that screw up the gains...just like happened with GoD. I suspect that we'll have basically the same character we have now, with improvements to our heals and nothing else of substance. Sorry, if that seems bitter, but I've been around for nearly five years in this game and I know how these things tend to shake out.

I want track overhauled to be more like showEQ. I want our nuke damage to be in line with Mage damage and both not to fall any farther behind Wizards than they both have. I want our spells (even our good ones like Harmony, Snare and Root to be useful at all times and not situational. I shouldn't have to wonder if mobX is snarable, rootable or immune to Harmony. I want charm to be an option in most all zones. CoT should be level 63 and there should be mobs for Necro's, Mages and Druids to charm and have fun with in most zones, not just for Enchanters. And for Gods sake, low that recast time! Finally - I'll conceed the points made on healing. The rest of the list I accept as is.

Remember I'm an Evoc druid. Always have been. I haven't cast a 10-second heal in the past 6 months.

I argued for and got our PoP druid DDs to be in line with mage DDs, and keep the same relative % position with regard to wizard DDs. That really hasn't changed since that time. I'd be interested to see some numbers showing otherwise.

I'm focusing on our new OoW spells as our primary DPS issue of the future. As such, it doesn't really belong on this list at this time.

All I would like to hear is that it is confirmed that it is clear that SOE agrees that if they fix wolf form faction they will not then tell us:

"Wolf form faction fixed as requested. Wolf form is now working as intended. We will not discuss this issue again. We have taken care of wolf form as requested and refuse to go back and deal with this issue again."

This is what we have heard for years now. Again and again, this is what they have told us on issue after issue.

I have no faith that they will not do this again unless we INSIST that there is more to wolf form than the one issue of faction.

Please, please, please, don't let this slide. Don't allow this to happen to us again. After over two years of asking for wolf form to be fixed and being totally ignored, if we allow them to do this it will be an insult to everyone who ever enjoyed being a wolf.

If you agree to leave number eight as:

8. Remove negative faction hits from wolf form line (currently being evaluated)

and not insist it be changed to:

8. Remove negative faction hits from wolf form line and revise entire wolf form spell line (currently being evaluated)

then this will happen again.

All I am asking for is that they agree to evaluate the entire wolf form concept and the points I have made.

Am I going to hear that we will not insist they look at the whole issue?

Remember I'm an Evoc druid. Always have been. I haven't cast a 10-second heal in the past 6 months.

I argued for and got our PoP druid DDs to be in line with mage DDs, and keep the same relative % position with regard to wizard DDs. That really hasn't changed since that time. I'd be interested to see some numbers showing otherwise.

I'm focusing on our new OoW spells as our primary DPS issue of the future. As such, it doesn't really belong on this list at this time.

This comforting to see.

I've been around this board forever. I am humbly aware of how you play the game. :)

Heh...if druids get turned into nothing more than mini-clerics, I'll be the first druid out the door...:)

Heh...if druids get turned into nothing more than mini-clerics, I'll be the first druid out the door...:)
But....if you had been a healing druid, you might have been to heal yerself and have gotten to the Summit! /bonk

The top 10 list has no order (other than healing being #1, and everything else is #2). Scirocco already stated this earlier in this thread.

I also believe that our nukes are being neglected. Not in the regards that we dont have enough .. true we are still on par with mages as close to 2nd best nukers but the gap between wizards and druids far exceeds the gap between clerics and druids. Personally I would not mind some higher dmg nukes just to minimise that gap (this goes for mages too) but more importantly I think or crit rate should be increased. The list does not ok but I do not want anyone reading it to think that the fact that nukes are not mentioned means we are leaning towards heals ... should be balanced between both.

Malkyr

Remember I'm an Evoc druid. Always have been. I haven't cast a 10-second heal in the past 6 months.


I'll vouch for Scirocco on this - I distinctly remember him screaming that we should get SCFM. And then a later one of his threads entitled "Renewing my call for druids to get SCFM" ....

And hey, if SoE doesn't go for healing then being a DPS machine would be fine by me.... certainly more fun than playing a cleric =P.

the gap between wizards and druids far exceeds the gap between clerics and druids.

I'd have to disagree based on the *variety* within nuke and heal spell lines.

Wizard nukes basically come in eight flavors: fire dd, cold dd, magic dd, lure dd, target AE, PBAE, concussion dd, rain AE. Druids have six of these even though some have longer cast/refresh times. And while we lack lures, we do have debuffs for fire and cold, so as long as a mob isn't altogether immune and the fight isn't too short, we can simulate a lure effect.

Cleric have six flavors of heals: long cast direct, mid cast direct, fast cast direct, heal over time, group direct, group heal over time. Druids only have two of those categories, both inferior to clerics, and we have no buffs of our own that would allow us to simulate the stuff we lack.

Point I'm trying to make is-- to truly determine a percentage ratio of druid's effectiveness to specialists, you cannot simply compare our biggest nuke against a wizard's biggest nuke, or our biggest heal against a cleric's biggest heal. That's only one small slice of the overall picture.

~Firemynd

Not sure why people obsess over a tree form concept, we all know it'll just get old and boring after a month or so anyway.


It would be cool if they had a quest or something for druids to develop an enhanced specialty. An evocation druid could improve their nuking abilities, an alteration type could improve their healing abilities. Each "type" could even be granted a spell that only their specialization can use, which is a more refined version of the normal ones.

Just a passing thought though =P

It would be cool if they had a quest or something for druids to develop an enhanced specialty. An evocation druid could improve their nuking abilities, an alteration type could improve their healing abilities. Each "type" could even be granted a spell that only their specialization can use, which is a more refined version of the normal ones.

Just a passing thought though =P
I don't think it really belongs in this thread, but I'll respond.

I think druids are supposed to be non specialists. Jack of All Trades, Master of None is what a druid is.

The only thing we are supposed to be masters of is nature. And that is where the tree form, wolf form and stuff come in.

"Wizard nukes basically come in eight flavors: fire dd, cold dd, magic dd, lure dd, target AE, PBAE, concussion dd, rain AE."

Fire DD and Cold DD is all I use for comparision because the rest are useless. Magic DD is a waste as from memory even clerics get a better pbae (which is the only magic based one we would really use). Lure DD .. only thing that compares to this is hand of ro which is not a nuke. Target AE .. thats useless and Rain AE .. the best one we had was cold which due to the lack of lure on colde debuff is not that high on my use scale. And as for quadding nukes we suck in that department too as out best nuke is 1100 dmg from memory ... which is useless based on the hps the mob have atm.

Imo the only nuke we can compare ourselves with wizzies with are the fire/cold DD ... rest are irrelevent.

Malkyr

And as for quadding nukes we suck in that department too as out best nuke is 1100 dmg from memory ... which is useless based on the hps the mob have atm.

Imo the only nuke we can compare ourselves with wizzies with are the fire/cold DD ... rest are irrelevent.

Malkyr

And Wizard's best quadding nuke is 952 which they recieved back in Kunark, I believe. In fact, Wizards are talking on Graffe how druids recieved upgrades to quadding nukes while they haven't. All they have is their three pillar spells along with the crappy Al'Kabor nukes for quadding.

Honestly, does any wizard or druid see a need for a new high level targeted AoE at this point? How many of us are quadding in KT? Last time I quadded was while waiting for people to wake up and come to the picnic tables in PoF.

Honestly, does any wizard or druid see a need for a new high level targeted AoE at this point? How many of us are quadding in KT? Last time I quadded was while waiting for people to wake up and come to the picnic tables in PoF.

Yup, and SoE didn't think that would happen in the first place. They were probably expecting it to be used soley in groups when there were multiple mobs in the group/

Fire DD and Cold DD is all I use for comparision because the rest are useless.

Fire/cold DDs are the ones both wizards and druids use most frequently, but the other types do have situational uses which cannot be totally discounted. Similarly, many categories of heals only have situational uses, and the more we lack, the more 'situations' our healiing comes up short.

Lure DD .. only thing that compares to this is hand of ro which is not a nuke.

I think you missed the point. Hand of Ro is a debuff which gives our non-lure fire nukes a much better chance of landing; this is why I said HoR provides a benefit similar to lure spells. The only difference between our method and wizard's, is that our 'lures' are broken down into two parts: the resist modifier, then the raw DD.

Until it's proven otherwise, the current belief among most druids is that our nukes are pretty much where they should be, relative to wizards and mages. As Scirocco requested, if there is a problem with one of our nukes, be specific about the spells you're referring to and show numbers to back it up. If you think there is too wide a gap between our nukes and those of another class, give specific examples and make suggestions on what you think the numbers should be.

Don't make blanket statements and expect others to do the legwork to prove/disprove your point.

~Firemynd

Scirocco,

I replied to your post with a post of my own asking for some comment. I brought up SOE's past history of fixing one thing out of many and then telling us that was it and don't bother us again.

I'm wondering your thoughts on this issue, since you are the druid representative.

Thank you.

This is what I sent back to SOE:

I've taken the parenthetical comments out of the original list in order to make it a short and sweet issue summary. I've put the parentheticals in a slightly expanded list below, along with some links to threads on some topics. Druids pretty much agree that the No. 1 item in importance is item no. 1.


1. Improved healing abilities (currently being evaluated)

2. Fix resists on E'ci's Frosty Breath to be similar to Hand of Ro (currently being evaluated)

3. Charm issues (NEW)

4. Harmony issues (NEW)

5. Snare issues (NEW)

6. Improved Aggro Management (NEW)

7. More shape changing forms and ideally special abilities for each (currently being evaluated)

8. Wolf form problems (currently being evaluated)

9. Pack pureblood/remove curse (NEW)

10. Improved run speed (NEW)


*****

Detailed Examples:

1. Improved healing abilities
- faster spots heals/new OoW spells
- HG applicable to % heals
- remove or raise cap on TR and KR
- reduce mana cost on KR (c. 500)
- make Nature's Recovery useful as a Heal-Over-Time (right now, it is less than regeneration)
- healing gap for levels 40-57 (perhaps lower levels at which SH through TR are obtained)
- drop issues regarding Healing Water (quest) and Sylvan Infusion (GoD rune)


2. Fix resists on E'ci's Frosty Breath to be similar to Hand of Ro (currently being evaluated)


3. Charm issues
- increase CoT cap to match new min. hynid levels in Vxed and Tipt (druids used to be able to charm the lower level animals there, but the recent revamping of those zones to increase XP by boosting mob levels stopped that)
- need OoW charm upgrade spell
- tag mobs that should be animals as animals (suggested list of mobs by zone being prepared)


4. Harmony issues
- remove outdoor restriction on harmony
- the aggro/assist radii for harmony should match pacify
- need upgraded harmony with higher level cap


5. Snare issues
- druids should have Entrap as AA skill (druids share Innate Camo and similar skills with rangers, and druids get various snares before rangers get comparable spells)
- upgrade to AoE snare with resist modifier and greater speed reduction (so it is not overwritten)
- fewer immune mobs


6. Improved Aggro Management
- druids need way to deal with excessive aggro from early fast heals in raid situations; OoW spell Thorn Guard has promise but falls far short of what is needed for high end druids in its current form, primarily due to 5000 point cap
- debuff and DoT aggro too high


7. More shape changing forms and ideally special abilities for each (currently being evaluated)
-treant/treeform; griffon/drake/phoenix; panther/wrulon/tiger; rat/shrew; fish
-for detailed proposals: http://forums.thedruidsgrove.org/showthread.php?t=8824


8. Wolf form problems
- remove negative faction hits from wolf form line
- remove bobbing/attack animation (makes some players queasy or sick)
- remove outdoor restriction
- re-examine whether the benefits of wolfform (atk, etc.) are sufficient in the current game


9. Pack pureblood/remove curse
- druids have single target versions, which are insufficient, particularly in the high end game


10. Improved run speed
- "Spirit of Horse": faster SoW closer to run speed of higher end horse, but w/o lev effects (floating effect of FoE causes motion sickness, excessive lag for many players)
- faster indoor SoW
- revised Spirit of Cheetah spell (druid only, longer duration, no long recast time)

I do think that Druid DPS has suffered compared to Wizard DPS
but not in the size of the nuke.

what has suffered is sustainable DPS.
Familiars & Harvest AAs have given wizards tools for mana regen/damage modifier that have outpaced Druids by far.

This allows the wizard, to sustain far better dps comparatively than before when xping.

((Mage Sustained DPS has also gone up through better Pet Toys, better Pets, and Pet Foci.))

I'd like to see the Druid Mask Line revamped.
Mask of Forest should be 8ish Mana Regen
then perhaps Mask of Destruction, etc that allows Nuke Foci, maybe healing foci.

This is my angry face... grrrr

Interesting.....

This is what I sent back to SOE:

8. Wolf form problems (currently being evaluated)

Detailed Examples:

8. Wolf form problems
- remove negative faction hits from wolf form line
- remove bobbing/attack animation (makes some players queasy or sick)
- remove outdoor restriction
- re-examine whether the benefits of wolfform (atk, etc.) are sufficient in the current game
Thank you very much.

I can only hope that they decide to take a good look at the issue and ask for more information. Should that happen, perhaps my listing (adjusted as we all can agree upon) could be brought to their attention.

We will see how much they are willing to work on the issue. I don't know what kind of process they use. If I was them, on each of the issues, I would ask druids (through you) to actually make very detailed exact proposals, with spells listed like they are at Lucy's.

In other words, if I was them I would have us do the work for them and then just adjust it as/if needed. But that is just me. I happen to think that the players can come up with some very good things that just need some oversight to make sure they fit in the game properly.

Thank you again listening and for working on these issues.

6. Improved Aggro Management
- druids need way to deal with excessive aggro from early fast heals in raid situations; OoW spell Thorn Guard has promise but falls far short of what is needed for high end druids in its current form, primarily due to 5000 point cap
- debuff and DoT aggro too high
I'm just wondering if there is any way that the aggro of our heals can just be reduced in code.

While having a spell (and we do now have an AA) to reduce the aggro is a nice thing, just normal healing shouldn't cause the huge amount of aggro we get.

I mean, I'm on a raid and I have to decide if I am going to heal someone and then gain aggro and die or just watch them die. Are druids really supposed to just watch people die and do nothing because healing them would cause the druid to die?

I am currently working on Spell Casting Subtlety AA. And once I manage to get 18 AA points (which will only take me about 9 months) I should get 20% less aggro. I have no idea if that would help any with the massive amount of aggro healing produces.

Adding a spell takes up more of our limited spell gem slots. And lately, getting spells is incredibly difficult. I think only a very small minority of druids have the GoD spells. While I'm not against adding a spell to reduce aggro and/or increase our survival if we gain aggro, I think the real root of the problem is that our heals just generate more aggro than they should.

P.S. Especially Nature's Infusion. I mean it should be called Nature's Deathfusion. :) With a casting time of 3.75 seconds (who were the ad wizards who thought that up?:), either it lands too late to save someone or it saves them just in time for the mobs to turn on the druid and kill them. I mean that spell should be totally revamped or replaced.

6. Improved Aggro Management (ex: excessive aggro from early fast heals in raid situations; debuff and DoT aggro; OoW spell Thorn Guard has promise but falls far short of what is needed for high end druids in its current form) (NEW)


Personally, I'd prefer that aggro was not lowered on debuffs and DOTs... this could seriously affect my/our ability in kite groups

I'm pretty happy with the list as it exists now. Great job everybody on the brainstorming and on Scirocco on condensing it. :bubbrubb2

Like everybody else, I do not use Treeform or Wolf form, but I might consider using them if they were made useful with some of the changes mentioned in earlier threads. Even if it isn't something you would use raiding, if it helps an up and coming young druid or soloing druid, then it should be addressed.

Personally I think that they should just return the aggro factor on our healing to what it was before the clerics got all worked up about it. Did we get a DA spell for it? Did we get ANY aggro diffuser for it? No. Odd how we didn't see the clerics getting upset about us not gaining an aggro diffuser when they changed the aggro factor.

Oh... great work Scirocco! It's a decent list. :)

I'm just wondering if there is any way that the aggro of our heals can just be reduced in code.

Should be... remember when Tunare's Renewal was nearly agroless, compared to now? If they added agro to it, they should be able to subtract it as well.

Personally I think that they should just return the aggro factor on our healing to what it was before the clerics got all worked up about it. Did we get a DA spell for it? Did we get ANY aggro diffuser for it? No. Odd how we didn't see the clerics getting upset about us not gaining an aggro diffuser when they changed the aggro factor.

Oh... great work Scirocco! It's a decent list. :)

This gets back to my previous point. I want to quote two warriors on steel warriors.

"
05-26-2004 #1
Shilandra
Registered User


Offline:
Join Date: Nov 2003
Server: Tribunal
Posts: 4 Dear Sony, taunt fails =80%

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Screenshot attatched as .bmp

in summary,

10 combat rounds, 8 failed taunts

i would be happy with even an average of 60%
Attached Images taunt.bmp (129.7 KB, 187 views)

"
AND

"EmiliaEQ
Registered User


Offline:
Join Date: Apr 2003
Guild: Lance Dragon
Server: RETIRED !
Magelo Link
Posts: 1,163 Some mobs are REALLY REALLY resistant to taunt. So your 80% means nothing.

Go to Inkkiz Trial3 (Three Archers) Its AT LEAST 95%

I've had Streaks of 20 to 30 fails while medding trying to pull him off a cleric.
They are tauntable (cause one day i got a success message) but very resistant.

So 30 40 50 60 70 80 90% Fail rate means absolutely nothing.
"

I think specifics are required where healing aggro is too high. There are other issues like the healer's hit points relative to the MT and the MT's agro generation and the MT's AAs... ETC.

To say that agro is too high can get interpted as a druid who does not know how to control agro or a poorly equiped MT... High agro might be there for other reasons like to make the content difficult for poorly equiped guilds... More specfically, a guild skipping content can use a sacraficial healer to land the first CH which is needed before the MT can generate sufficient aggro...