http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=5361&source=Test
Solstice Strike 2220 damage for 535 mana

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=5355&source=Test
Crapolete 2420 for 627 mana

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=5349&source=Test
New: hungry Vine, PBAE -100 resist check 50% snare, 3 ticks, 500 mana, recast 30 seconds, and auto cast this to your group

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6154
hungry Vine resource: damage shield by 45, absorb melee by 20% (1600 max)

This spell is kind of strange to me. And it kidn of sux too since it is a PBAE spell, cost a ton of mana, short duration, long recast, out door only. The auto cast is interesting but I have no idea why those 2 can tie together.

other news:
all sort of hp buff is nerfed by a bit.

haha.. why would you tie an ae snare to that?

in what type of situation would you think "oh crap, better put up the grp rune" and at the same time want to use an ae aggro spell?

that's more likely to save the grp from taking dmg by pulling it all on you than saving them dmg by giving them extra mitigation.


*edit* hehe, it's flagged for outdoor use only too :bonk:

Does that sound like an epic like clicky to anyone else? Other then the 500mana listed anyhow...

Sort of confused myself - but its different!

The Solstice Strike numbers are now 30% based on Sylvan Fire, not Summer's Flame (you're welcome :)

I think you will also find that the cleric, shaman and druid heal numbers are now consistent % increases over the corresponding spells. Expect druids to maintain the status quo re healing with these spells. Any rebalancing of healing is going to have to come after OoW (which is appropriate, as that rebalancing will have to go beyond the high level OoW spells).

Hungry Vine looks like a "lure" AoE snare, albeit PBAE. Remember that an improved snare is on the druid issue list, although I had a targeted AoE in mind. Short duration, but ensnare is 56% and thus should override the 50% of this spell.

HVR looks like Spike-Vie. Something that a melee would want, I think.

It's an inventive spell, and just for that I give 2 thumbs up. It also is definitely druidy in my book.

The way I would see it used : Put it on 1, 2, 3 mobs that are pulled to camp. They become snared, melee damage is partly prevented at the same time (so it prevents some healage - to the whole group), AND DPS is increased through a sizable (but still not large) DS (that I hope stacks at least with our normal DS). It's also fast casting, and with -100 resist check, and level 70, it should make a noticeable difference on resist rate.

I like it. Targetted AE would be better than PBAE.

Callahad

They also bumped Chlorotrope back down to 68 from 69. This will change (for the better) the decreasing focus effects numbers for IH4, Marr's Gift and Blessing, and the GoD healing foci.

PBAE will play havoc on the Zek servers, unless it follows the same rules as our earthquake line. Anytime you'd use this your group members would potentially be snared.

Our new harmony spell had its duration shortened to 7 ticks from 2 mins, and was changed to single target from a AE spell.

Charm had it's max duration shaved by 30 seconds and its mana cost increased from 650 to 800.

Our new skin spell had it's hp component reduced by 33 hps (only the group version though which is obviously an oversight).

Seems like the good and bad are about even in this round.

PS: Is advanced dire charm in beta for any class yet?

Could be a new twist on crowd control; mobs come into camp, hit them with Vines and pull them away; meanwhile the tank grabs one, and the whole group gets a minor boost in damage mitigation, which slightly reduces the need for heals while getting mobs parked. Not bad....

But.. Outdoor only? I'm SO tired of having our class unnecessarily singled out and penalized with this ridiculous restriction. No other class has a chunk of its effectiveness removed based on where a zone is located.

If this is SOE's idea of balance, where the hell are the "indoor only" flags for abilities of all the other classes?

~Firemynd

Charm had it's max duration shaved by 30 seconds and its mana cost increased from 650 to 800.

Unless the charm has a modifier that prevents it from breaking two seconds after it lands, 800 mana is :bs: ... especially considering the spell takes so long to cast in the first place, and so long to recast if it's resisted.

~Firemynd

Short Answer: They dont want druids charming except for DC/toys or in rare group situations where they are willing to put up with constant charm breaks and oom druids from casting the damned thing.


That Hungry vines spell looks really inventive and I commend them on the spell, whoever thought it up needs to do more of that work for all classes.

The outdoor only tag is very limiting, especially since this spell is already an almost gaurenteed "beat the druid" flag whenever it is cast for all mobs effected... Good spell though, although the outdoor only tag has to go, its just rediculous.


Also looks like magicians get something similar to Hungry vines...although the recast portion is not detailed its obviously something of similar nature but their spell is just a 200pt DoT on their pet, and their recorse seems to be more powerful, but no numbers are in yet, just the description:

Elemental Simulcram Recourse
Surrounds your body in a magical shield, increasing your hit points, armor class, and magic resistance.

Elemental Simulcram
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=5497&source=Test


I'm somewhat confused, although I realize why two versions of the spell are shared between mages and druids and why mages would get a more powerful version, theirs being effective HoT + AC + MR, at a cost of 200hp/tick to their pet (of which I am sure they can withstand if their pet isnt getting beat upon, but WHY do druids get stuck with 1) outdoor only restriction and 2) the spell being a PBAE all druid buffet if there are more than one mob in camp?

The mage spell is also only 50 mana as compared with the druid 500 mana.

Druid Hungry vines should be adjusted to

1) Low agro factor...very low agro if any should be attributed to this spell or else change it to Single target

2) Mana = 400

3) REMOVE OUTDOOR RESTRICTION

The healing and nuke changes are very nice so they are worth using over GoD spells.

The mana increase on the charm is way too excessive, we are already penalized with its long cast time/recast time. Also, the change to the new harmony is rather disappointing - if Sony is going to keep the outdoor only restriction it should still be AOE - if it is going to be restricted compared to other class versions it should have added benefits.

I like the idea behind Hungry Vines and it does seem "druidy". It needs some adjusting still IMO due to being penalized twice. If it is going to be kept outdoor only, change it to single target rather than PBAOE. If the outdoor only restriction is removed, then the penalty of being PBAOE would be understandable.

Good for clerics...now this is what I call a HoT

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhistory.html?id=5259&source=Test

1100 hp/tick, very nice and very effective I would say, but some disagree on the efffectiveness of HoTs

I'm not sure what the point behind hungry vines is. The mitigation recourse is very small and limited (melee only (in GoD it's the procs that kill, does this change in oow?), 20% whoopee, and a small limit... and god what is with the damage shield obsession they have), and the whole thing lasts only 18 seconds. The outdoor restriction is stupid, and the mana cost is huge for such a small benefit... And after it's used you are basically a dead druid, so... what is the point?

If I wanted to cast short duration mana intensive snares I'd have played a necro 8P Least they get some damage out of em!

The charm changes are crazy, especially considering them putting in advanced DC.. I mean, which is it going to be? Do they want people to charm or not?

New cleric hot is nice. Hot's arent nearly as useful as they once were, but they are still a great way to buy extra time for getting a real heal to land on someone. I particularly like having a cleric super extended mega HoT when I'm tanking old trivial content on my monk... I feel almost pre-nerfish!

I can keep a tank alive just by HE alone in Kod. my HE last for 7 ticks and only occasional patch heal is needed

I'm not sure what the point behind hungry vines is.


It's a group emergency spell. Think overpull or unexpected adds. It takes a little damage off, has a high likelihood of snaring them for CCing, etc.

Aside from the outside only restriction, what do you think of HV?

I'm not sure what the point behind hungry vines is.


It's a group emergency spell. Think overpull or unexpected adds. It takes a little damage off, has a high likelihood of snaring them for CCing, etc.

Aside from the outside only restriction, what do you think of HV?

It you get such a overpull, do you really want to aggro most of the mob so all of them go towards you? Unless teh tank immediately AE taunt afterwards you pretty much guarantee a dead druid

Yeah, besides the obviously fatal consequences of actually using this spell in the situation it seems to be designed for... I also dont think that situation actually happens much anymore. Given the huge number of lulling classes these days, how many times lately have you been overrrun by a boatload of mobs? The days of sebilis and lguk train-smashing are long gone, any more than 3 or 4 mobs in camp without an enchanter and you are better off hitting exodus than this thing.

Interesting idea, but almost zero practical value. Maybe as an AA, but devoting a spell slot to it would never actually happen.

It looks like most opinions are covered: it's very situational, and more than likely suicidal, but overall a unique spell, and a decent start. I have no idea what the potential of this is in OoW, but for current content it seems to need some fine tuning. Removing the outdoor only tag is a good start.

This scares me too:
AE Range 50

Many thanks Sirocco.

i dunno....on an overpull....hit thorn guard then this spell....if they stack....wuwu...and you have nice mitigation and a bunch of snared mobs you can quickly CC or tank or kite til someone else does....it's got it's problems....autoaggroing several mobs while they're within range 50 of you is pretty scary...take off the outdoor tag and maybe extend its range....but then again..extending range too much might just aggro more unaggroed mobs

Kendali Thistlewood
Storm Warden of Tunare

I almost wonder if the hungry vines effect is listed a bit incorrectly.

I'm thinkin maybe they intended it to snare your group. Sorta like a torpor type thing.

Sure hope I'm wrong

Its certainly an odd one.

The first problem I see is this however :

Mobs incoming, you can see there are quite a few... but wait, you have to hold on until they in a tight range already beating down on the group before this goes off.
The second it goes off ( unless its REALLY low agro ) you going to have a collection of mobs wanting to hit you.
Now, I know we are fast movers but at that close a range, some of emm are going to get hits in... add in a stun.. and bamn, your a dead druid.

The second thing just a fyi :
I added the new symbol + new altered 9 together, plus the old symbol + old 9 and the difference now is 122 (with new ) vs 123 ( with old ) so its not as bad as its first look.
I guess it could be argued that the druid one was higher and the new symbol take a hit on its hps....

- nieros

How in the world can you not get the point of HV Tiane?

Did it ever occur to you that you DONT have to cast HV while mobs are present? And that AA/focus will extend the recourse?

It's fn Bulwark of VIe... not only that but it is GROUP bov. Wake the hell up.

As far as outdoor goes...how much of PoP was indoors? Tactics and cod only? I have seen a few SS of Oow and they were all outdoor as well. Somehow I doubt outdoor only is much of a restriction.

As far as outdoor goes...how much of PoP was indoors? Tactics and cod only? I have seen a few SS of Oow and they were all outdoor as well. Somehow I doubt outdoor only is much of a restriction.

All of the good stuff of PoP was INDOORS. :-(

Tier 1: Thankfully, nothing.
Tier 2: CoD, CoDB, Torment.
Tier 3: Tactics, HoHB
Tier 4: Sol Ro Tower (I'm so sad that this is indoor. I can see the sky, for pete's sake)
Tier 5: The Elemental Plane of Water, for christ's sake.


And I just know I'm forgetting one, but I haven't been awake long.

And let's not forget that there was an ENTIRE indoor expansion. That was insulting.

-Noishpa

You didn't forget anything, but HoHB is outdoors, plus CoD and CoDB are the same zones.

Lilosh.. you didn't just claim that Torment was 'the good stuff' of pop did you? Be a little more objective here. Forget poFire, pon, valor, storms, bot, potime... i need more Torment baby!



HV.. i picture your puller pull a mob. After ONE mob is in camp... you can pop off a combination snare and group bulwark of vie. You would not pull agro doing so. That's a good spell.

What about AE raids like mud ring in poeA? Again another great place for HV.

And one does have Oaken Guard to use in conjunction with this as well.

How in the world can you not get the point of HV Tiane?

Did it ever occur to you that you DONT have to cast HV while mobs are present? And that AA/focus will extend the recourse?

It's fn Bulwark of VIe... not only that but it is GROUP bov. Wake the hell up.

As far as outdoor goes...how much of PoP was indoors? Tactics and cod only? I have seen a few SS of Oow and they were all outdoor as well. Somehow I doubt outdoor only is much of a restriction.


Regardless of whether or not you agree with Tiane, and regardless of whether your understanding of the spell is more correct than hers, I'd say a little more respect is owed to a moderator by someone who's post count is 2.

Regardless of whether or not you agree with Tiane, and regardless of whether your understanding of the spell is more correct than hers, I'd say a little more respect is owed to a moderator by someone who's post count is 2.

There should be more respect in posting regardless of the post count of either party. :whistle:

Another reason HV is nice.. the druid doesnt even have to think about targetting the MT and/or the slowers who might get agro in a single pull scenario.

The DS is slot 9, the AE is PB - so no need for a target. The recourse (with SCRM) lasts 27 seconds and has a 30 second recast. I Don't know the rules on recourse's - does anyone? The spell is a detrimental spell, so presumably it is Detrimental spell Haste and MP that effect its casting time and mana. But does SCR/SCRM effect the recorse? Assuming it does, this is a high mana, but also high effectiveness spell (Druid DS will be at apx 100 all by itself and you will have near constant BoV). With outdorr restriction removed - I think this has real potential. Just not for what SoE intends it for.

I think there is a shaman version with PBAE slow instead of snare. However, their version is not outdoor only. Druids are too powerful indoors!

All of the good stuff of PoP was INDOORS. :-( Except for PoTime, PoAir, PoFire, PoEarth.

A good evaluation and situational use of Hungry Vines will happen after OoW goes live and players get to USE it. So far, this is just conjecture as to the situations. It's good to think about the situations, and predict how you might use it. But, remember all the pronouncements about how useless AA's were for reducing the re-cast time on Rad Cure? Well, guess what? Some high end encounters in GoD have a need for that Rad Cure and that AA. :bonk:

Rolaque

I asked an honest question, and you, Mook, responded in rudeness. Secondly, this is a general section and comments like "It's fn Bulwark of VIe... not only that but it is GROUP bov. Wake the hell up." are not acceptable. You will back off and apologize or you will not post here, those are your choices.

As for your other comments, why would you cast it when mobs are not present? For the awesome 18 second 20% melee mitigation? With no mobs in camp? Kinda difficult to get the recourse with no targets... That seems even less useful. AA will extend it some, but not all foci, and certainly not any of the focus4 items that anyone has now.

My question remains. Show me a situation where casting the spell in its current form has a practical use. Why would anyone keep this in a spell slot over the slightly less useless OG spell, or even an evac? Considering the massive restrictions on the spell and the giant mana cost, I cannot see it.

I was actually interested in this spell, until I asked guild SKs do you still get the beneficial recourse, if the detrimental part doesnt take hold.

No.

Snare = Snare Immunity = Most of the times I'd want the recourse it wont work.

Stop worrying about the outdoor-only restriction. Assume that you will be able to use it in all zones. Still worthless?

All of their's are single target. Ours is not only AE but it is also PBAE (so it has no target). I am not sure the same rules will apply given those circumstances.

Tiane,
I think it will be useful in Boss fights. The only thing this does not stack with is Vie line and similar. They have melee mitigation in slot 1. DS in slot 9 interfers with nothing. Mage/Druid DS is slot 1. Potion DS is slot 2. Clicky DS is slot 4. SotW is slot 8. Non-clicky item DS is no slots. Bard DS is short buff box. The BoV companent is not bad (though 20% max 1600 is going to end fast), but the DS portion is very nice (though it is possible that the recorse buff drops once the 1600 has been hit). A druid in the MT group (or two), could add significant damage to the MT DS with this.

Between potions, normal DS, Bard DS, this and wood - the DS of the MT could exceed 300. I think that has potential. The *outside* limitation needs to go, for sure. And we need some answers on recourse and this spell. If things all come down negative - e.g. must land on target, outdoor only, recourse buff drops when 1600 is reached - then this spell pretty much sucks. I certainly agree with you that it sucks for the intended (presumed) purpose - of helping to deal with a bad pull. But I know I would love a spell that was just a slot 9, 45 point DS that lasted for 27 seconds (after scrm) and cost 500 Mana. Assuming that this spell is that with some potential otehr uses as well, then I like it. Too many questions out atm to decide, imo.

Stop worrying about the outdoor-only restriction. Assume that you will be able to use it in all zones. Still worthless?

Depends.

1. Does the recourse buff require the snare landing on at least one target?

2. Does the recourse buff benefit from SCRM?

3. Does the recourse buff drop as soon as the BoV portion has stopped 1600 damage?

4. Is the unrestricted Mage version (currently no information on it) where teh Mage DoTs their pet render ours ineffective (by have an equal or greater DS in slot 9)?

If 2 is "Yes" and 1,3,4 are "No" then the spell will be worth while after it is opened to all zones.

If 2 and 4 are "Yes" and 1 and 3 are "No", then it is marginally useful.

Any other combinations of answers makes the spell worthless, IMO.

From what I understand recourse effects are not affected by any types of focus, they also count as if "no one" casts them - as such there is no aggro associated with it.

EDIT: Not saying the recourse effect would be the higher aggro componet.

Don't think it (or any of our spells) should still be outdoor only. But, I see plenty of uses for it. More and more fights have had multiple adds. The druid could Oaken Guard, PBAE snare, and run them around until chanters can lock them down or even just for 10 seconds or so. The only thing that makes this unlikely is the 50 range. At that point, you'll have to be in the center of the adds, and probably would die before you got past them and started running. A targetted unlimitted target (like our root) would be nicer.

SCRM is not a focus, its an AA. It effects things (SotW for example) that buff duration focus effects do not.

Also, where agro is concerned - this spell will have it in spades, whether or not there is any agro from teh recourse.

This spell will not stack with oaken guard on the druid.

1: Mitigate Melee Damage by 75%, 5000 total - OG

1: Mitigate Melee Damage by 20%, 1600 total - HVR

Most likely, OG would not be overcast by it though (and presumably both will over cast BoV).

SCRM is not a focus, its an AA.

Well that depends how technical you want to get, but that is not for this thread. How do I make this more clear... If the spell is not credited towards anyone casting it, then who does it check for SCRM.

Well, lets see... as for the usage on the MT argument... 45 point DS for 18 seconds (no extenstion on recourse.) Assuming that he gets hit 4 times every second, for 18 seconds for 45 hp each... that's a whopping 3240 damage for 500 mana. We get better nukes than that in OoW (w/focus.) And that's ignoring the 1600pt rune portion, which will more likely be gone in ONE HIT on a boss mob fight, netting you 45 points of damage and 320 hp of damage mitigated (less than a chloroblast) for 500 mana. That issue alone makes it practically worthless for a boss mob type fight (or any other, imho.)

Yes, Tiane, but I already covered that. You are assuming BOTH no extension on the recourse AND that the DS drops when the Melee Mitigation hits its limit. I already said that if either of those things were true, that the spell is worthless.

Well, after just now checking with various people in game... SK's and Necro's dont get SCR so cant check that. However, having a recourse land on you doesnt break your FD or sneak/hide, so chances are that they are assumed to have been cast by "Nobody." Also, none of the recourse effects have a class associated with them, since normally only spells/effects that have classes associated with them are affected by duration extension (or other focii), it seems like the recourse wouldnt be affected even if it does count as having been cast by a person. (I.e. I just checked wrath of the wild - no class associated with it (dont ask me why I bought it...) It lasts 36 minutes whether or not I equip my buff duration item.) But it IS extended by the AA SCR.

It seems to be a pretty safe conclusion that the recourse is not extendable via focus items, and probably (but not certainly) not affected by the SCR aa line (probably not would be my guess given that recourses seem to be cast by Nobody.)

As for the DS dropping... well it's part of the buff. The whole buff drops when the mitigation limit is reached, just like BoV (the spell that HV Recourse was copy/pasted from), so the DS will drop when the limit is reached.

Having heal, regen, buffs, etc.etc.etc. anything not damage does not break FD either. I don't know of any spell or effect that is considered cast by "nobody." To my knowledge, no such mechanic of that sort exists at all.

Now, there is a mechanic that exists for spells with no class/level associated with them (all recourses and most AAs with lasting effects). In those cases, focus effects do not work, but SRC/SCRM does. In this case, whether a focus effect would work or not as a matter of mechanics on recourses is not terribly relevant, because the spell only lasts 18 seconds (3 ticks), and thus falls under the limit of spell focuses. To my knowledge, no such limit is present on SCR/SCRM. So I expect the recourse to last 27 seconds with SCRM.

The DS dropping. That is consistant with some mechanics (SotW) and inconsistant with others (stun/roots cause damage even when teh mob is stun/root immune). As far as I know, no spell currently has Melee Mitigation attached to another effect. If I were to GUESS, I would guess it will drop when the MM limit is reached. But I don't know that right now, so I list it as a condition (like I list SCRM working - I expect it to, but won't assume it) rather than just assuming it won't work.

btw, the other thing about listing conditions is that, IF the DS can't survive the MM hitting its limit and IF SOE/Sciraco agrees that the spell is no good if the DS drops before teh 27 seconds is up, then maybe changes will be made to improve the spell. If the comment is just "this sucks" - there is not much that can be done with thatother than scrapping it. I think most people at least agree the idea is inventive and worth trying to make into a decent spell.

Yes I mentioned the scr vs focus difference.

In any case, I'm still waiting to hear an example situation where the spell might be useful and used.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.ht...349&source=Test
New: hungry Vine, PBAE -100 resist check 50% snare, 3 ticks, 500 mana, recast 30 seconds, and auto cast this to your group

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6154
hungry Vine resource: damage shield by 45, absorb melee by 20% (1600 max)

I am not sure if i understand this right, so i will write what i think happen with the spell, and i would love it people will point to me where i am wrong.

You got a few mobs that are close to you (the PBAE part).
You cast HV, all of them get snared for 50% speed unless they immune run speed or resisted the snare (i.e. it's not limit to 4 mobs or something).
Then there is the second part of the spell that is the recourse part of the spell, that add 45 damage to all group members and a 32000 HP 20% damage Rune.

If this is right then i can see why people are not sure about this spell, it's very complicated and it's very hard to speculate how it will work.
1) snare immune mob, do the group still get the DS/Rune?
2) Rune run out Is DS still on (and not that i expect to see to many mobs hitting for 32k in 18 or even 27 sec)?

Regardless of those i can see many many places where this can be used.

Druid pull - bring a few mobs to camp, MA get agro on one you drop this on the mobs, kite the rest a little from camp drop root on one, slower slow one other. and you changed a posible wipe to a controled pull.

AE pulling boss - run to mobs drop Oak, drop this on mobs, run away you have just menage to clear the run immune from the rest.

In any case a neg 100 AE snare is priceless even if it is only 18 (27) sec
There is one other things i am sure will be trying when this come out, but i am not going to post:)


So yes siccoro this spell look promissing BUT i think cast time need to be real faster (3 sec look to long for CC), and since it is very complicated spell then untill we actualy try it we can't say how well it will work.

but even if this spell is pure and total junk, i am still happy to see that Soe are trying to think outside the box that fact alone make me happy.

not entirely worthless, consider this

MT group:
2 war
2 cle
2 dru

2 dru can chain this spell to give 20% melee protection to the MT in group.

however, if you think this spell will be useful for any sort of emergency, you are wrong unelss you want to sacrifice the druid so cleric can camp or something

All and all I like this spell, for one, its inventive and different then anything that we have now, which is a good thing, good escape or big pull spell, and good for MT's on raids, all and all a good addition. Id rather have a new ch tho =p ours is going to heal 1/3 of a tanks HP in oow =(

however, if you think this spell will be useful for any sort of emergency, you are wrong unelss you want to sacrifice the druid so cleric can camp or something
I don't agree with you.
This will alow me to get instant agro so i can pull mobs away from group, then i only need to kite them while slower handle them one at a time, only reason i will die is if mobs run faster then SoE or snare me .
I have done this with Bonds of Tunare, Big pull come to camp drop bonds on them and run away, and bonds is even worse then HV since not haveing MR modifier mean that normaly i get at least one resist so it's harder to kite.

2 dru can chain this spell to give 20% melee protection to the MT in group.

Even with VoQ, SD, ft 15, bard song, 9/mask, on a horse, etc etc. I still dont come anywhere near 500 mana every 3 ticks. You guys seem to be ignoring that mana cost. Besides, two druids in the group can chain chlorotrope and get far superior results.

It needs at least a few of these changes to make it truely worthy of a level 70 spell:
1) Remove outdoor only tag.
2) Make the AE range 100, or keep the 50 but make it targeted AE.
3) Remove the 1600 damage cap, or put it closer to 5000
4) Make the duration more than 18 seconds.
5) Adjust any of the above with the mana cost. 500 is way too steep atm - if it's not an adventure with respawn I'd rather just exodus.

The damage shield is near worthless on the 1k+ hitters we'll probably see, but it's fine as is. The snare being 50% is also good.

Even with VoQ, SD, ft 15, bard song, 9/mask, on a horse, etc etc. I still dont come anywhere near 500 mana every 3 ticks. You guys seem to be ignoring that mana cost. Besides, two druids in the group can chain chlorotrope and get far superior results.

Negating damage is better than 'taking and healing' it when talking about a boss mob. Taking it requires the MT to have that amount of hps left in his pool to survive, while negating it doesnt.

I agree with the changes you proposed though.

As for a use for this spell in its current form, about all I can see right now is a train slower, -if- you see that its a train heading towards you early enough. If you do see 4 or 5 mobs inc, can slip in front of the group and try to time the cast to catch most of the leading edge of the train (ala a PBAOE kiting timed cast). Then once you have agro of many/all of the mobs you should be able to retreat backwards, and maybe even sideways to kite them while the crowd control folks get things under control.

Very situational use, and not a amazing tactic. But Tiane did ask for any situation where it might be used and I tried :grin:

Okay so we have bad pull which does not happen very often other then guess they will be making more mobs that are immune to pacify etc even the higher level version. First of all they have to be snareable. Okay so we get a bad pull assuming the stuff can be snared and we are not right beside the mobs any one with snare is snaring and kiting or roooting or mezing to get CC under control. Now as far as I can tell there is no damage component so it will not break mez. But NO idea on the range but cast the spell and we are going to have a real big problem. Okay slow is only 50% so is worse then the rest of our snares and it only lasts 18 seconds. First of all with this effect on can we snare the mobs with something else. And will it overwirte any existing snares if so this spell is useless great 18 seconds till you have everymob around you saying kill druid and no snare. Nice Suicide spell.

Changes Sept 2 & 3

Druid

Oaken Guard
Added: Defensive Proc(6156)
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=5356&source=Test
Could it be a heal proc? or maybe a reverse damage proc, who knows...when is that NDA gonna be lifted :-) (I'm not in beta so I cant even hint)

Hungry Vines
Location: ANY (<-- niice..)
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=5349&source=Test

Cloak of Nature
Location: Any (from outdoor only)

Ancient Chlorobon
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6141&source=Test
Increase Hitpoints by 2660
Mana: 655
otherwise same as the other 3.75sec heal

Circle/Ring of Slaughter
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6179&source=Test

Circle/Ring of Bloodfields
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6184&source=Test

Spirit of the Grove (SoTW AA upgrade)
taken down to increases of

1: 275hp/tick
2: 300hp/tick
3: 325hp/tick

Cleric/Paladin

Symbols group and single got lowered 1 peridot each in regents
Vie spells got a regent added, either an Emerald, Jasper, or Peridot, depending on which version you are casting...they seemed confused.

Ancient Hallowed Light
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spellhistory.html?id=6140&source=Test


Shaman

NEW Remove Detriment called Pure Spirit
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=5410&source=Test
Effect: Remove Detrimental(1)

Seems like that is designed to help in the expansions, and earlier ones, but how effective will it be or how usefull.

Ancient Wilslik's Mending (ancient heal)
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6142&source=Test

Ancestral Aid (aa group HoT/endur regen)
taken down to
1: 275/tick
2: 300/tick
3: 325/tick
Endurance portion was also nerfed.


Mages

Ancient Elemental Spike
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6145&source=Test
Looks interesting, can almost gaurentee they need to nuke their pet for that recourse, but 7mana/tick is nice even if you need to nuke your pet for 1500 every 6 mins.


New - no class

Gelidin Aura (cold nuke/debuff icon)
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6128&source=Test
Cloaks you in a mystic veil, rendering you invisible to many creatures for %z.
Self only

Pyrilen Aura (fire nuke/debuff icon)
http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6127&source=Test
Cloaks you in a mystic veil, rendering you invisible to many creatures for %z
Self only

Have no idea about them, maybe either new better types of invisibility for certain classes or something /shrug.

Mellee disciplines (or at least some?) seem to go to the short buff box now, which is good, that thing needed to be used more.

You missed that Vines was also changed to Targetted AE.

Not sure if this is good or bad.

Good: don't have to be close to the mob to use it.

Bad: Likely to require Target is debuffed for recourse to work (like normal recourses)
Limit of 4 targets (like normal pillars).

You also missed a HUGE change in healing balance - favouring Clerics, of course. SOE blows. Cleric "Light" spells (their large blast heals) now benefit from what used to be unique to Druids big blast heal - a 200 range (with no coresponding increase to Druid blast heal range). Clerics used to have to use the Remedy line to get range 200. Now, their Light lines are just in all ways better than our blast heal line. Thanks SOE for ****ing Druids yet again.

I also detest the idea of making essential spells Ancient. I seem to recall a promise by the devs who invented Ancient spells that this would never happen, they would always be extra, or optional, and so far they have been. Then in GoD they started this BS wish Sylvan Infusion, which is so stupidly rare (like every other spell from that rune), and now this. You just know that everyone and their sister will start making healing comparisons using the druid ancient heal, and of course devs will balance encounters around druids having it, no matter how rare it is. And yes, I realize that clerics also seem to be getting an ancient heal, but considering that they have a billion other good heals, it's not as big an impact (although still stupid.) We have ONE line, ONE way to heal.

Stupid.

/sigh

P.S. Hungry Vines - still bizarre and pointless. Make a spell to fit the current combat paradigm or dont bother, because as has been shown for years, if it's not better than what we have, if it's not more efficient, it wont be used. For reference: 5.5 years of abandoned zones, trash/twink items with required levels, and other bizarre and pointless spells (hi anti-summoned nukes otherwise identical to regular nukes, among others.) This seems to be a spell that tries to offer a (bad) solution to a problem which no longer exists.

As for a use for this spell in its current form, about all I can see right now is a train slower, -if- you see that its a train heading towards you early enough. If you do see 4 or 5 mobs inc, can slip in front of the group and try to time the cast to catch most of the leading edge of the train (ala a PBAOE kiting timed cast). Then once you have agro of many/all of the mobs you should be able to retreat backwards, and maybe even sideways to kite them while the crowd control folks get things under control.


Perhaps the mob layout of OOW will be more like WoW has been described - many mobs in camp at a time instead of the boredom of single mob camp pulls. /shrug Im honestly on a "we shall see but im not hoping for much" bandwagon at the moment.

http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=6156&source=Test

Seems like they're adding jolt proc to oaken guard, so it should help the meat shields take agro back before you get pasted.

And while these seem like some nice things for druids and not asking that they get taken away, but it seems like the devs may have been taking ranger requests and using them for you guys (new harmony [though we also want one that works inside] AE snare, snare with short duration lower snare % and big neg adjust, PBAE snare [though it was asked that it these two would be seperate] and defencive proc jolt [asked to be able to cast this on others and not our selves though]) Eh, maybe it's coincidence and you guys have been asking for them too, but I know each was discussed alot in serverwide ranger chat, but maybe with a little luck they'll toss rangers mini versions
Also noticed that not all the ancient spells are level 70 for this expansion, so maybe they won't be ungodly hard to get, but only labled as such since ancient spells tokens are no drop and they don't want them being sold. If they come from your run of the mill named's and can be obtained by normal mid strength players then this doesn't seem like a bad thing.

Interesting. If they tripple the damage limit to 15,000 (or more depending on how hard OOW mobs hit) this spell would actually be worthwhile.

uhh harmony has always gone to druids before rangers so i'm certain they didn't go hehe rangers want harmony let's give that to druids!....and basically you're talking about upgrades to druid spells you get later in your leveling from being part druid hybrid (minus the jolt thing you definitely got that for being death targets in kunark) so if we get the upgrade and you don't....don't take it so personally...it should be that way

oh and i haven't looked at this thread in a while so this response goes for way back in the thread a ways...an example of a mitigation rune like spell with another effect on it....Wrath of the Wild is a 1pt rune with the 350-500 pt DS...when the 1pt rune dies...so goes the buff...so i would assume the recourse to HV would work similarly

Kendali Thistlewood
Storm Warden of Tunare

Yeah, not really expecting better or even the same for rangers (was hopeing for better than what your getting now for rangers before I saw you guys where getting)

Right now I'd be happy (and I assume other rangers wouldn't be too unhappy) with a 35-40% low resist single target snare for 3 ticks and has a recast of 30 if it were given a low cast time (I'd like <1.5, though they might be able to put it at 3 and let innate hybrid haste on detrimental spells bring it down)
The PBAE snare was mentioned in the context we'd like any way to area taunt so that we could PBAE+WS to control adds a few seconds longer while chanters handle them
Imbueing jolt into another was asked as an AA to give us a bit more use on raid, but with chanters ability to now drop hate for mobs target by 6k not sure if it will be as usefull anyway (though as an aside, griefers could really screw a raid with that)

And both our classes are over due for an improvment with harmony. They dropped down the level cap on original harmony saying unresistable lull was way to powerful even if outdoor only (though the fact that original was also AE and had long duration I could see being too strong) , and later down the road monks get unresistable lull that works inside and out, + they have FD for splitting. Now while I'm fine with monks being good pullers, giving them unresistable lull after saying ours is overpowered is a bit annoying (though SoE has done this alot with other abilities).
Both classes should get a spell like NS in the 60s, and an indoor version with resist of neg 5 that works up to 70 IMO

Well those are some of the things I think/hope for and sorry for the little "I want to be able to pull again dangit" rant