View Full Forums : Turning us more into nukers?


freezelin
09-07-2004, 02:31 AM
Looking at the new spells for OOW it seems to me that SOE is trying to shift us a bit back more towards the nuking side of our abilities rather than furthering our abilities as healers.

Solstice Strike is probably the nuke that ill be using in the long run. Cold nukes do more damage but the cold debuff line is pretty ineffective and so i usually use fire esp since i often group with mages and wizards. Solstice Strike appears to be larger than any nuke in the expansion except for the Mage line of sight only spell and the Wizard nukes, and of course the other druid cold nukes. I think its a solid upgrade for the summer's flame spell im using now and quite preferable to the sylvan fire spell.

On the healing side, i think our new patch heal and the ancient patch heal are ok although a bit mana expensive for those who don't have 7k mana and max FT. Right now im around 5500 mana with VOQ...certainly that will go up with the levels and expansions but 627 mana is pretty expansive to be tossing around a lot. That leaves Tunare's Renewal and Karana's renewal as alternatives to hitting someone with the fast heal. I really wish they would have given us another option on the "CH" side of things. Karana's is pretty expensive at 600 mana and Tunare's is getting kinda small for most tanks i work with, although i do use it when i think only 3500 hp healed is required. (i get 3500 out of Tunare's with my current aa and focus effects)

Since i can only assume that the mobs are gonna be generally harder in OOW than they are in say the elemental planes and the parts of GOD ive seen so far, then it seems the typical druid is going to be less and less able to main heal given that we don't have a ton of great heals to choose from. Shaman have a nice HOT line and if druids had that they would be better able to keep up but sometimes i think i could heal easier as a level 70 shaman than a level 70 druid.

So basically clerics have overkill healing abilities but i feel like druids are made less able to keep up and that hurts the game overall i think...not just druids.

elty
09-07-2004, 01:59 PM
SoE probably think cleric is not mandatory enough. Perhaps instead of 10 cleric in a 54 people raid, you should need 15?

Scirocco
09-07-2004, 02:08 PM
Remember that roughly half of all druids are nukers primarily, not healers. The other half, of course, are healers primarily. Enabling the nuking side of druids is a good thing to about half of the druids out there.

In OoW, druids basically are maintaining the status quo in healing and nuking. We're getting about the same % increases as comparable classes. Any major rebalancing as far as healing power or DPS power will have to wait until OoW is out the door.

We are getting one obstacle to our taking on the healing role in certain single group situations out of the way, of course, with a summon to corpse AA skill. That will help to some extent, provided that you have the capability to act as a healer for those groups (some can, some can't).

Lotharun
09-07-2004, 05:30 PM
Remember that roughly half of all druids are nukers primarily, not healers.

It's probably not 50/50 anymore. I know it used to be, but I highly doubt it anymore.

I am guessing that many of the Evo Druids have either quit EQ in disgust or converted themselves. And even if they are still Evo, their role probably isn't. There are many classes that can compete with or beat a Druid in DPS but only a rare couple can fill the healer role like a Druid can.

If you took a survey you'd probably see that a high percentage of raid Druids are usually in some sort of healer role. And I suspect that the higher up the guild is, the more likely that the Druid isn't being called on to nuke.

Tiane
09-07-2004, 05:43 PM
This is true. In high end guilds, druids most often need to heal, usually because there arent enough clerics (you cant have too many.) DPS is a dime a dozen. Druids heal (poorly), buff pot9 (usually), mgb heal (along with 2 and possibly soon to be 3 other classes, the worst of the current bunch), and debuff (which is more of a placebo effect to everyone but wizards... they actually seem to appreciate the neg FR.)

Being that you only need a couple druids in attendance to fill those roles, it's not like there's a lot of impetus to keep playing for the healing druid either.

Macnbaish
09-07-2004, 05:47 PM
On raids I easily cast 50+ heals per single nuke... I r Minicleric

Elhawk
09-07-2004, 06:56 PM
I like to nuke every chance I get. But more often than not I am serving as healer in both groups and raids. I know in some raids druids are only healing till the mob is slowed and then it all out dps. Has anyone ran numbers as to the amount of dps we would put out with dots and nukes going over a period of time and how does that compare to others?

I personally wish they would improve our melee abilities. Yes, I know it sounds wierd but for some reason I think druids were intended to melee.

Elhawk

cross
09-07-2004, 06:58 PM
Spec:EVO4L !!

I act as healer for xp groups about half the time, but the other half of the time and on raids I definately play the role of dps. Other classes have better dps, but I enjoy having the utility available. DPS classes are a dime a dozen, but not many of them can jump into the middle of a cheal rot when a cleric goes down or spot heal with any speed and efficiency.

Has anyone ran numbers as to the amount of dps we would put out with dots and nukes going over a period of time and how does that compare to others?
I get anywhere from 150 to 300 dps (rough estimates, but have been parsed before in this range) depending on if I want to lose net mana during the fight and how close I feel like pushing getting summoned. I'm sure you could go bonzai or go on a critfest and get well over 300, but then you get reputations like mine for getting summoned on every raid mob :P Rogues in my guild parse between 300-400dps depending on the situations of the fight and I consider them the best dps class in the game for the time being (resists in some parts of GoD have really put a hurt on necro/wiz dps).

Crossifixio
Silent Resurgence
Innoruuk

Sunwukong Stormrider
09-07-2004, 07:27 PM
Evocation for life here as well.
I picked druid as nuker over healer, but game design, class perception by other players, and lack of clerics shift that balance towards healing role. I will never change from Evocation.

Tappin
09-07-2004, 07:33 PM
Regardless of what I want to do, the lack of clerics, increase in dps, nerfs to slows, mezzes, and kiteable mobs, increased frequency of large AEs, rampaging mobs, etc. have all lead to a lot more healing in the game. On raids, I'm usually 70% healer at least.

Lotharun
09-08-2004, 01:02 AM
Yep, yep -- just as I tought. Sad, isn't it?

Evo 4 life!

silverbough
09-08-2004, 01:21 AM
Evo baby, I refuse to convert to the dark side.

Rovaedne
09-08-2004, 06:09 AM
Evoc all the way!!

I was initially an Alteration druid and switched over to Evocation a good 2+ year ago (it all blends together now..). I think its safe to say that I like to have the ability to do either. Though more often than not i'm looking to be damage. I usually heal when its critical to the raid /group and nuke / debuff the rest of the time. More druids may be healing but it's because they have to heal.

I think most druids would agree that an increased role outside of healing would be great. The inherent problem with this is that there seems to be nothing else in the EQ model that is both a priest ability and equal power as slow / heal.

I am still amazed that druids came up with and asked for a BoV (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=4091&source=Test) line of spells and then clerics suddenly received them. Yes clerics had mentioned it- but druids at the time were fighting for it. Everyone, including me, saw it as potentially game balancing and giving druids a nitch that would be untouched by clerics / shaman. We've seen what happens when we try to carve a nitch- clerics get it. And if we do see it in any form shaman get it too (70% slow isn't enough? /harass). Kudos to whoever came up with Hungry Vines (http://lucy.allakhazam.com/spell.html?id=5349&source=Test) Even if its situational to the n^th degree. Its atleast heading in the right direction. Kk enough bashing and history.

More [anything] less heal.

RWahrrR!
Rovaedne

Shayleia
09-08-2004, 01:05 PM
I honestly dont care what services I perform in a group setting. If I have to be main healer ok. If there is a cleric and I get to dps ok as well. My problem with the current lack of new healing spells for druids is in regards to raiding. I am sick of the stranglehold that clerics have on being able to begin and maintain a raid. 40 members on, 3 clerics oh well maybe tomorrow guys. That is completely BS imho. I dont want to take jobs away from the cleric class, hey usually I am soloing, but I do want to be able to raid without having to wait for clerics to log on. It gets old really really quickly.

Kulothar
09-09-2004, 12:29 AM
I love DPS and have parsed over 300 a couple times (usually just before dieing) but I have only been selected for a group for DPS a couple of times this past year. Easily 99% of the time I cast HoR, Heal the when the call to nuke comes I MGB SotW and if I have any mana nuke till OOM and then melee (usually after being summoned).

They have cornered druids into a secondary heal role by not making our DS and Debuff roles powerful enough but at the same time not letting anyone but clerics be affective healers. We can be effective nukers as every other nuker points out but due to design we cannot function in that role in a group due to lack of healers. I love being in multi healer groups because I can use my mana as I want but those groups are rare.

Sunwukong Stormrider
09-09-2004, 06:34 PM
Im still pushing for another 3 ranks of Quick Damage for druids. This will help druid on DPS role somewhat. Druid will still maintain Damage/mana ratio, but will be able to dump it faster.

Orolmy the Fire Caller
09-13-2004, 06:55 AM
I want to nuke for the 6Ks that I'm crit healing for..

I'm an evocation druid in an alteration druids' body. (could never be bothered to change).

I despise healing SO much, it's common place for me to deguild people temporarily who suggest I should be healing.