View Full Forums : Soe still do not get it!!!


beasthealer
09-15-2004, 03:00 AM
I was very piss at the nuke nerf, so pissed that i was about to cancel my account.
But then i started to think about it and i got even more pissed becuse the problem is not that they nerfed the nukes, the problem is how and when.
Don't they ever going to learn? when people told them that the way they beta there expension is totaly ****ed up, Soe said ok we will get better, we will learn but they haven't what the point in doing beta and balanceing and then on the LAST DAY to change so many of the spells?
wizard/druid/mage all got the nukes cut all done on last day, i am sure there where more changes and all i can think about is, what's a BS excuse for beta.
You either not raedy for lunch since you haven't finished balanceing and in that case you should push lunch untill you ARE ready, or your so ****ed up that even though you know you are going to changed those spells you decide to do it on the last day in order to avoide the communities from giving you the feedback (i.e. kicking them in the ass for the nerfs) and that's is what beta really for after all.
Both those option mean the same thing
Soe did not realy understand what the player summit was telling and they really do not listen.

In view of this i have now going to think about my EQ account and will i abort it or not, but i can tell you one thing my EQ2 beta account is up for grab since there is no way in hell i will buy EQ2 from a company that simply refuse to listen to the customers.


that's it rent off.

Arienne
09-15-2004, 08:32 AM
It's the way SOE markets their products to us. They wait to nerf until the last minute in hopes that players will just say "Oh well, I already have it on order" and buy it anyway. The goal is just to get people to pay for it. After that they'll worry about how to get people to keep paying the monthly. And they'll have a "grace period", too. Not many buy an expansion and quit the very next month.

They do what WE let them get away with.

Personally... from what I have seen in the past month... the "summit" has all but been swept under the carpet. I doubt that they'll even look under it now.

katahn2001
09-15-2004, 09:06 AM
That might or might not be it (the wait till the last minute "bait and switch" type tactic with spells/nerfs), but unfortunately the absolutely atrocious customer communications from the EQ1 Dev team (possibly this is SOE policy, again unknown) make it entirely too easy to construe that. The last round of MMORPGs basically flopped because they either tried too hard to be "not EQ" in the good ways and failed, providing a terrible product, and/or got arrogant/obnoxious about it presumably thinking "Hey, it worked for EQ!"

Net result? Shadowbane, Horizons, and several other MMORPGs have all hit "Woody's MMO Bug Zapper". They flopped with customers who saw no reason to leave their existing MMO for something even more broken with equally obnoxious customer relations, and failed to attract/retain those new to the MMORPG market for the same reasons.

The latest round of MMORPGs: City of Heroes, World of Warcraft, and even the upcoming EverQuest2, all either seem to understand they need to make sure to provide a quality product and good customer service, or are at least talking that talk. I tried the WoW stress test beta and wasn't real happy with the character customizations, and it was buggy in places (unhittable mobs that didn't aggro, but who you could get skillups on was the primary problem) but "felt" more complete to me that EQ did, and the WoW team seemed pretty responsive to the problems I encountered. I also am playing City of Heroes, and while it doesn't have nearly the content of EQ, I am very satisfied with it in terms of balance, playability, quality, and especially quality of customer server favorably impress me in comparison.

So what's the point of this? My point is that if anything "kills EverQuest", its not going to be its upcoming competition so much as its going to be mismanagement by the EQ1 team. Whether or not EQ2 is competitive is going to hinge heavily on how its quality compares to the others and how they treat their customers. Again, given the recent trend in MMOs (quality product, quality service, focus on the essentials before trying something "innovative") I am encouraged that maybe the SOE/Verant/EQ1 legacy regarding shoddy/buggy releases and callous (at best) customer relations may become a thing of the past.

Mossrunner
09-15-2004, 09:20 AM
Where can I find more info on the Nuke Nerf?

Shayleia
09-15-2004, 11:23 AM
Well Sony has my EQ1 money as I love my druid but they can kiss anything further then that from me bye bye. I refuse to purchase, look at, think of buying EQ2 after playing EQ1. Sony has lost my business in all its other ventures so they better hope EQ1 lives forever if they want to keep sucking me dry :whistle:

Panamah
09-15-2004, 12:57 PM
I have to say the CoH developers have it right. They test and test and test and never even say when something is going to go live until a couple of days before. They don't have some arbitrary date picked, they wait until they and their customers are satisfied that most of the bugs are gone. People right now are badgering them about when Issue #2 is going live and they still say, "a few days after we get most of the bugs out". :)

I think there are some problems with CoH, but testing isn't one of them.

katahn2001
09-15-2004, 01:45 PM
I have to say the CoH developers have it right. They test and test and test and never even say when something is going to go live until a couple of days before. They don't have some arbitrary date picked, they wait until they and their customers are satisfied that most of the bugs are gone. People right now are badgering them about when Issue #2 is going live and they still say, "a few days after we get most of the bugs out". :)

I think there are some problems with CoH, but testing isn't one of them.

Its not even that, although by itself that's absolutely wonderful. Its that the CoH team is much more open and communicative with their players. I can't even express the differance here, but compare what they are doing with Tankers to how SOE/EQ1 is approaching class/role balance. The lead developer has posted on the subject while in development, and is talking about what changes are planned and what they were considering when doing it.

Compare that to the EQ1 team, who still have not released anything about the "class definition sheets" that are going to be instrumental in the retuning/rebalancing of EQ. Not even a preliminary "Here's what we are thinking in broad strokes, to give you an idea of where we are heading and why." The class top-10 lists repeatedly updated with "no new information" or "under discussion/being evaluated."

Message boards are a terrible source to base game changes on, you get about 1% of the player community, most of whom are reasonably intelligent and articulate, all wanting something that will benefit their character that would not be good for the game, and generally capable of arguing it well. However there is a world of differance between taking information there with several thousand pounds of salt, and simply being as closed/standoffish in communications as the EQ1 team is.

Juniper
09-16-2004, 05:05 AM
They killed the damage per tick on the new Necromancer dots also by over 100. Sucks to see they did this to so many people. If it was that imbalancing, why the last minute change?

Llenyd
09-17-2004, 07:03 PM
Clerics had nukes reduced in damage also. On the flip side, all three priests had upgrades to our heals.

Pious Remedy
09-14 10:08 Changed Mana cost from 500 to 495
09-14 10:08 Changed Slot 1 from "Increase Hitpoints by 1885" to "Increase Hitpoints by 1990"

Pious Light
09-14 10:08 Changed Range from 100 to 200
09-14 10:08 Changed Mana cost from 750 to 740

Chlorotrope
09-14 10:08 Changed Mana cost from 625 to 627
09-14 10:08 Changed Slot 1 from "Increase Hitpoints by 2275" to "Increase Hitpoints by 2420"

Yoppa's Mending
09-14 10:08 Changed Mana cost from 562 to 558
09-14 10:08 Changed Name from Obkin's Mending to Yoppa's Mending
09-14 10:08 Changed Shaman level from 67 to 68
09-14 10:08 Changed Slot 1 from "Increase Hitpoints by 1690" to "Increase Hitpoints by 1785"


Another oddity from the last minute retuning of nukes. The summoned/undead nukes used to be identical. Now, while the damage is the same for all, the mana cost is not, with druids having the lowest cost (375), followed by clerics(385). Necros and mages share the same cost (390). Not sure if this was intentional or not.

Niomia the druid
09-23-2004, 11:09 PM
Thats whats wrong with capitalism. Those who own the means and the power will keep you down, but just above the level of revolt. Too bad boycotting EQ is impossible... too many of the people who bitch and moan are too addicted to go a few weeks without playing. Hence no revolt=no change. Sounds to me like EQ players screwed themselves.

I dont complain. If they nerf druid nukes, big deal. I never considered myself dps, most of the times im healer or I lay a dot on the mob and go afk for a few and no one notices im gone. Trust me, the druid nuke isnt missed by any players when they still have necros and such.

As one player mentioned above that they will not be buying EQ2 as soe has lost their business well thats sort of hypocritical, because you still pay for EQ1, you are as much a cash cow to SOE as anyone out there preordering 3 copies of EQ2. What you should have said was "Since Im too addicted to quit EQ, Ill merely state I wont be playing EQ2 because EQ1 still has 60% of my life and Ill cover that up by saying SOE wont get anymore of my money." All youre stating is you have simply let SOE use lube whenever they bend you over.

Im not bashing anyone but frankly one cannot complain when one's situation could be so easily changed. Revolt, or quit. Or.... suck it up and deal.

Fenmarel the Banisher
09-24-2004, 02:19 AM
Must...resist...urge to break...NDA!

Phew that was close. Hey the above post reminded me of a quote from one of my favorite movies...

The Dude: Oh F*ck it.
Mr. Lebowski: Oh F*ck it! Yes thats your answer. Thats your answer to everything. Tatoo it on your forhead! You're little revolution is over Mr. Lebowski. Condolences, The bums lost. My advice to you is to do what your partents did. Get a job sir! The bums will always loose! You hear me Lebowski! The bums will always loose!

Chenier
09-24-2004, 11:18 AM
You either not raedy for lunch...
Me personally, I'm always ready for lunch.

And I don't think you've been paying attention. SOE did change how they do beta and the OoW launch was 14 trillion times better than GoD.

How you can you call a nuke nerf on something that hadn't launched yet? Changing the software while it's beta is where it's supposed to happen. Watching Lucy can be fun during beta, but it is NEVER what you should expect stats to be on anything until the software "lunches".

Scirocco
09-24-2004, 11:36 AM
How you can you call a nuke nerf on something that hadn't launched yet? Changing the software while it's beta is where it's supposed to happen.


It was the last-minute nature of the fix that I find troublesome (I honestly came close to canceling, but then realized that the P v V game is still afoot).

However, as the penduluum clearly is swinging against casters in EQ at the present moment, I have to say it is not entirely unexpected.

Grendul3164
09-24-2004, 01:03 PM
All im saying, is im glad Im changing mains. =)

Scirocco has it right that the penduluum is swinging vs casters...

Tiane
09-24-2004, 05:45 PM
Sad part is, it's not like melees are gaining all sorts of new ground and abilities. They just arent losing any (but dont get me started on the yet another shift for monks away from 2hb this time...)

Fenmarel the Banisher
09-25-2004, 07:31 PM
How you can you call a nuke nerf on something that hadn't launched yet? Changing the software while it's beta is where it's supposed to happen.


It was the last-minute nature of the fix that I find troublesome (I honestly came close to canceling, but then realized that the P v V game is still afoot).

However, as the penduluum clearly is swinging against casters in EQ at the present moment, I have to say it is not entirely unexpected.

I wouldn't put it beyond SOE to decide early on on a level for nukage. Up the dammage during beta to create buzz for the new expansion (they can count on people to violate the NDA). Then at the last minute set it back to their pre-deterimined level.

Of course on the other hand they could have just decided to balance it at the last minute but, that would be giving them the benifit of the doubt.