Hello all,

So far this forum has helped me out so much from using my druid .. ie I use to use entangle only on mobs but I found its very very effective in pvp thanks to many helping posts. Now, I was looking at some posts and some peoples gear in my realm ( frostmourne ) and I saw that moonkins had enchants like Fiery, +9 damage and I thought to myself... wait ... dont they cast? So why would they even get those since those proc on melee? Then I looked around some more and I found out that they melee for OoC. I was like... OMFG. I have always always wanted a class that could cast/melee at the same time ! I am a die hard alliance ( sory horde ) so the shaman option isn't open to me. Now is this true? If so, what weapons do I use for moonkin ? what do I do? How do I fight? Enchants ? Stats? Please someone enlighten me ! =]


Note * = I like classes that dont have to drink after every 4 fights on a mob so thats why I was straying away from moonkin but I rather have a constant grind and not drink so often if that means to lose damage ie +nature damage stats.


Thanks all !

I am getting ready to spec moonkin as soon as I hit 40 3/4 of the way there now. I plan on using my hypnotic blade and ivory orb off hand for most of my fights in moonkin. Due to its fast attack speed I hope to get OOC proc fairly often. as far as for enchants I am unsure I am an enchanter so I will prob play with several before I decide. hope this helps. I am sure gwmort will shed some better light on the subject soon as he is the leading moonkin in the forum that I know of.

Most of the people who experimented with Moonkin and didn't like it because they were always Oom, tried to play like a mage. Don't. Mages are squishy, and ther playstyle is based on this squishiness (kill quick at range so I don't get hit).

Moonkin is not squishy. Moonkin is a plate armored cannon (as opposed to glass). Being in melee range will get you constant free spells from OoC (a must have talent in my book). It will also let you use that awesome armor and improved thorns (not a must have, but nice).

I would estimate my melee weapon makes up about 20-30% of my total melee damage, depending how conservative I am being with my mana. When I was looking for a Moonkin weapon I had these requirements: speed faster than 2.8 to get more procs and have shorter swing timers after casting; dps greater than 42.5; and preferably int or spirit and a caster effect (+dmg or +mana/5).

I went through many weapons looking for the right fit for me. I started with the dagger combo swearword mentioned, and really liked it, except the dmg numbers each stab seemed so small (purely psychological I know since there were more of them). I replaced the dagger with a The Shatterer a guildie made for me, had decent dps and speed and a neat disarm proc and I liked flaunting that weapon procs work in moonkin form. I kept that till about my third run through Uldaman when I got The Rockpounder off Archaedas. Not a caster weapon by any stretch of the imagination, but my dps was awesome and the +2% to crit effected the feral forms as well (which I still use as well). I ended up having a guildie put +7 to dmg on it, more for the glow than anything else, but it was a dps monster, slow but when it hit something they felt it.

Then I went through a series of staves as I leveled into better gear (some generic of the eagle), then the resurgence rod, and then I farmed what I considered at the time the ideal Moonkin Weapon, Zum'rah's vexing Cane in ZF. Fast, nice dps, caster stats, +dmg and heal. I kept that clear until I got my first epic, my Warden Staff. Now the warden staff doesn't have any caster stats either, but it is what took my moonkin from 5300AC to 6500AC, improving my stamina and +def as well. I labored over what enchant to put on it, and eventually decided on the +30 spell power. I now hit harder, and can take quite the beating.

Of course the ultimate would be the Hand of Edward the Odd (insta cast SF FTW!), but that goes for more than I'll ever have saved at one time.

As for your enchants, I would recommend fiery on anything you think you'll keep for a while during leveling, anything more expensive will be a waste. You should also make nice with an enchanter that can keep you stocked with mana oils on the cheap.

I rambled on more than I meant. If you have a more specific question I will be glad to respond.

Of course the ultimate would be the Hand of Edward the Odd (insta cast SF FTW!), but that goes for more than I'll ever have saved at one time.

.

Can you that and OOC procing at the same time. FREE INSTANT SF FTW!!!

How often does your OOC proc w/ warden?

I <3 alliance druids who try and play Moonkins as mages in BG's. I honestly hope none of them ever take any of your advice gwmort (note: veiled compliment!)

Currently I am a Moonkin. So heres what i have for spells and damageing
+112 Damage, its Jindos sataff, Cenarion Helm, Leggings, Shoulders for the 15min Roots.
Also i Have Hand of Edward the Odd ( great proc x2)
Usualy when I go for an opner I use starfire, Moonfire/Root, and a few wraths and then go in close for the procs and damages. OC and CC is great as one goes instant and other is free of mana, if you can get pots that help you in mana and other areas as i usaly do you can farm for quite some time i usualy drink after the 5th mob as i also have a good +59 mana regen with certain things if u want when servers are up ill list all my casting gear. Also plan on getting the epic Fearl set :D

How often does your OOC proc w/ warden?

I get good results, the swing speed is 2.4 I believe, I would guestimate I get a proc every 5th swing or so. Of course casting interrupts the swing timer, so there are likely to be a number of spells between swings.

I usually open with a root, MF, SF. Then wrath until they start coming at me, then FF and start whacking with the staff just renewing MF as it wears off or whenever I get the OoC proc. Whenever any of those crit I follow it up with a real fast wrath thanks to Nature's Grace. If it looks like a long fight I will hit Nature's Grasp to back off and shift heal.

...and Jimmay, I love hibernating feral druid flag runners. I don't know why more ally druids don't seem to use hibernate in PvP.

i was also wandering gwmort if it is possible to not drink every 3 seconds like what people say?.. that scares me :[ im willing to sacrifice anything

I also play a moonkin and I can atest to everything Gwmort has said. My weapon of choice is slightly different Changuk Smasher (1.9 spd with 33.4 dps). I play my moonkin like I would an armor plated cannon (as it was so eligantly stated).

My opening attack is usually SF, Moonfire, Wrath, FF and then melee it out for a bit. I too use my Nature's Grasp as an emergency back off, but I think ahead and don't Moonfire spam if I'm going to need a heal as the damage can break the roots hold.

The only bad thing is that OoC and Nature's Grace (the reduced casting time ability after a spell crit) can't be used together on the same spell.

And as for the Hand of Edward the Odd, thats a lot of Moonkin Love in one mace. I wish I had it!

Cheers,
Ephrim - Gul'dan

i was also wandering gwmort if it is possible to not drink every 3 seconds like what people say?.. that scares me :[ im willing to sacrifice anything

In open world solo quest/grinding, I almost never stop to drink. My survivability is through the roof and if mana gets low I switch playstyles and smack things with my stick or go feral for a while (mana regens while in feral forms). Bear in particular is a good way to keep rolling while the mana builds as I am already wearing some pretty decent AC gear (and my warden staff).

OoC is even better for feral than balance IMO, I can't imagine why more ferals don't use it. Even without feral talent points spent, the veritable font of free rage/energy rocks and makes up for my relatively lower AP (because I am after all wearing caster gear, you could of course swap into some feral gear w/ itemrack or something, I'm just lazy).

I do run into some drinking in instances if I am the lowest level (like my guild taking me through BRD now), and I spam more MF than I should trying to keep up on the damage boards or use hurricane every other fight (monster mana drain). In instances where I am average or high level I drink every few groups of mobs, but I have never had a group wait on me I can get it done while the other casters are down.

Things that I have found save me from drinking in instances are food items (Sagefish delight, nightfin soup), mana oil on my weapon (guildie cranks out the lesser if I give him the purple lotus), and picking up some mana/ 5 sec items. I am also looking to add the mana regen to bracers enchant.
*and of course the blessing of wisdom from my guild pallies.

The most important thing is pacing and using all your tools. After the initial volley, when I want to stretch the pool I only cast to renew MF and spend the other time whacking (until I need to root and heal). Always keep an eye on having enough left to shift (natural shapeshifter works wonders here), many times I drop to bear as I run out of mana and its like resetting the fight without any concern for mana. I love doing that to drop down to enrage and frenzied regen for the mana free heal.

omg this all seems so interestingly awesome ! I just cant wait i swear .. lvl 27 now and im gona go asap to moonkin =]. Thanks so much everyone. Im also wandering, is there anyway to beat a warrior or rogue if they have the first hand ie stealth first? how would i start the duel out when my subtley friend stealths.. it gets annoying when he stun locks me =/

Just an FYI,

the balance tree is not the best for leveling until you can get the extra survivability of moonkin form. For leveling up to level 40, I recommend going feral then respeccing straight to moonkin.

The lower tier feral abilities are just more beneficial for lower level characters than the lower tier balance talents. This technique will also give you some experience with feral skills you might not otherwise receive.

As for the rogue duel try this:
first - get to lvl 30 and buy some Green Whelp Armor (even with the nerf it will rock for leveling)
second - cast Nature's grasp and bear up
third - hit enrage and demoralizing roar (I have heard the roar will bring them out of stealth, but I have never tested it)
fourth - let them attack you (rogues use a flurry of special attacks at the start of a fight, you should be able to surviv in bear and the large number of blows will almost guarantee an GWA or NG proc)
fifth - once they are rooted or asleep move off a little bit shift to caster, heal, cast MF and FF, then go back to bear for the rest of fight (unless you need to bash-heal later)

After that initial flurry many of their cooldowns will be blown and with the MF and FF they won't be able to stealth again, once you can reset the fight this way rogues are really no trouble.

And as mort said, lvling as feral is the best bet until you get to 40. Reason being as balance if you are casting a lot, you will get aggro and have to drop into bear b/c your armor in caster form sucks. Might as well have some points in feral if you are going to be fighting in feral anyway. Plus feral is a lot of fun at the lower lvls, and you can get +30% to movement speed at lvl 23, which really helps running around astranaar or the barrens. :)

Once you get moonkin, your ac increases a lot, and you can cast and take a beating. By all means try out moonkin - it seems like heaps of fun. I've heard somewhere that OoC procs the same regardless of weapon speed, but I can't verify that.

is there anyway to beat a warrior or rogue if they have the first hand ie stealth first? how would i start the duel out when my subtley friend stealths.. it gets annoying when he stun locks me =/

Beating Rogues and Warriors at your lvl is much easier as a Feral Druid. Once you get to 40, Moonkin form is great for fighting rogues as well (because of the increased armor) When fighting them, always be in Bear form (or moony), especially if you have improved bash (1 sec extra is a lifetime). Mort pretty much nailed the process:

Rogues:
Cast NG, and make sure you have your Green Whelp Armor on(5% chance when hit to put the target to sleep for 10 sec).

Then go into bear and wait for stunfest. Most rogues will blow all their stuns and cooldowns up front. Once they have done that, they are dead in the water (like a mage who is out of mana). Whatever you do for this initial phase, do not come out of bear until they are either rooted or asleep.

Once they are rooted or sleeping, faerie fire, moonfire, /dance, then drop into bearform. At this point, I enrage, wait a few seconds feral charge (11 point talent in feral) which locks them in place for a short while so they cant jump around a lot. Then just pound away. A good tactic against rogues is to constantly keep backing up. A lot of their damage (as with druids in cat form) come from backstabbing, which they have to be behind you to do. Save your Bash incase they get a couple lucky crits and drop your health quickly. If that happens, Bash for a 5 sec stun, then pop out, regrowth rejuv and right back to bear before they are un-stunned. You can refresh MF at this time if you want. This is why people hate fighting druids - with both the Heal over Time's ticking away, you are more or less invulnerable - the damage that they deal to you will be regenerated every 3 sec :)

Also, make sure that you have thorns up. Its funny to watch rogues kill themselves while poking you. I have about 9k armor now in DireBear form (im resto btw), and take down rogues like nothing. Unless they are real good, know how to play their class, are speccd for stunlock and dont blow all their cooldowns at once.

Warriors pretty much the same thing.

I don't know why more ally druids don't seem to use hibernate in PvP.

Probably because some of us resist it decently.

but back to the subject of moonkin...

one of the hardest things about moonkin is the need for truly hybrid stats. You need high AC, int, spirit, stamina, and to a lesser extent str. You need to find some + dmg gear or + spell crit or + mana/5. Of and don't forget resists, that mitigation from armor is great but doesn't stop the magic or elemental damage from slipping through.

You need a weapon with decent dps and that augments your casting. Your the only type of druid that can really use procing enchants, but you probably need the stats. Its a challenge.

All that said Bliz is really answering the call. There is more leather caster gear than most people realize, you won't have to wear cloth. Also the new sets are leaning much more toward hybridization than specialization. The Feralheart set has plenty of + dmg/heals, some mana/5 sec, and nicely distributed stats, and the Genesis set shows the direction you can head for high-end hybrid gear.

Another draw back is a lot of people don't know much about moonkin, other than its the least popular build of the class that isn't quite as good at anything as the real classes. In PuGs, tanks won't understand that you don't need the same protection a mage does so you don't have to limit your dps to prevent drawing aggro, they'll just yell at you. Priests will get concerned that someone other than the tank is taking damage and yell at you to back up. Rogues will wonder why you are not targeting the same mob as the Main Assist (so youcan cast a full SF before the mob dies) and yell at you. The mages will get tons more crits using your aura, then show damage meters where you fall third or fourth as proof moonkins aren't viable. You'll have trouble finding PuGs in the first place, especially when they ask up front what spec you are (they're looking for resto druids).

On the other hand I love being in BG's and the opponents don't know what to expect from me (or think they know). I love the big damage and the incredible toughness. My guild has been very supportive of learning how to incorporate what I can do into the group play.

Thank you so much everyone for the information and support I needed.I am sticking with feral until 40 and then respecc to moonkin. This will seem so fun and exciting =]. Last thing though that I was wandering... Do i have to nuke wrath? ie getting imp wrath instead of ng maxed out? also, do u guys think 150 leatherworking and 186 skinning is okay at lvl 27? just some side info, the basis for me has totalyy been covered thanks to you guys and i apreciate it so much. =]

I've been toying with the idea of going Bal spec at endgame, although I know everyone says Resto... to me Resto seems like the very epitome of boring... I guess I prefer action, and actually doing some form of dmg to mobs, rather than being the saving grace from wipedom...

For those that have spent a good deal of time feral spec'd, but then made the change to bal spec/moonkin, what are your thoughts in general, as to gameplay, both pvp and raiding etc..??

I've been toying with the idea of going Bal spec at endgame, although I know everyone says Resto... to me Resto seems like the very epitome of boring... I guess I prefer action, and actually doing some form of dmg to mobs, rather than being the saving grace from wipedom...



Your gameplay is what you make of it...so your comment about being resto = epitome of boring is your perogative, true, but those of us who know how to play a resto druid and make it fun, highly disagree.

I don't have much raid experience, so I'm speaking from a BG player's POV ...I heal my teammates frequently, but also do dmg when I need to/have to and it works out quite well. There are plenty of times, I have left an AV with less than 10 deaths (that's a good game!), and also been high up on the HK list. Feral specc'd could say the same ...

I wasn't trying to steal your thunder, just saying that I prefer making more of a contribution by means of dps, rather than heals :)

It's good that I'm in a decent guild, and don't have to compete against Resto Druids in PuG land hehe.

/sarcasm off

Do i have to nuke wrath? ie getting imp wrath instead of ng maxed out? =]

As a Moonkin I have 3 points in Imp Wrath and 2 points in Nature's Grasp (1 for Nature's Grasp +1 Imp Nature's Grasp). The reason I went with this is because 50% is a high chance and the reduction of 0.3 seconds when combined with Nature's Grace (0.5 casting time reduction), you can get a Wrath off much quicker if you're paying attention. And in moonkin form you don't have to Nuke wrath. It takes a while to get used to but you're an armor plated caster (at lvl 46 my armor is 4700). I use Wrath from a distance if my target is slowed or rooted and avoid spamming any spells unless I know its going to help: ie; to kill that Shaman that just disrupted my nature spells and deserves that Moonfire beating; or the rooted, faire fired rouge who is getting SF again and again and again!

Cheers,
Ephrim - Gul'dan

You do not have to spam wrath, although mana-damage it is probably most efficient. (a chain of wraths will typically do more damage for me than a couple SFs).

Learning the best spells for the situation is most of the fun. In melee against a swift attacker I only use insta-cast spells (MF, FF, NG), and a wrath if a MF crits and I get the speed boost from Nature's Grace. Agaist a slower attacker I'll try MF swing wrath swing rotation.

TIP: I have been noticing that when I cast using the OoC proc it doesn't reset the 5 second rule for mana regen, it just keeps on going. I regened to full fighting in a Dredger in Silithus, just hitting MFs on OoC procs and using my melee weapon. Another reason to have high spirit.

alrighty guys.. i got a new plan...

1. Im currently gonna respec at lvl 28. Im so tired of not being able to do any damage in WSG and dieing so fast cause evryone loves to target me as a potential flag carrier.

2. Im done with flag carring, il do it once just to get rid of my sprint but im not primary, secondary


so what i need help is whats the best thing i could do now? im in love with WSG 20-29 and i wana stay there till i become master seargent. currently private. Any talent advice builds? i dont wana go full feral, a lil is okay but im trying to stay away from it. I would love to go balance. Resto wouldnt be bad to. Money is not a option here ... well kidna i got 60g from last night selling my leather products.. been working hard to save up. Im gona keep going wsg till i am revered and master seargent then form there lvl till i get moonkin form. But for now, i need your guys help, gwmort please ... i just want a balance build.. or mix of balance/resto build.. anything and il experiment with game play. I also need a list of the bear gear possible for that level (29). Thank so much , im not gona change my mind anymore.. losing too much money =[. Thanks so much for everyones support !

Let's all just spec moonkin form and cause world of warcraft players to freak out. :texla:

I would love to see thousands of people going into 'zomg mode' over a bunch of moonkins running around.

I will get my :epopcorn: and watch the show.

alrighty guys.. i got a new plan...

so what i need help is whats the best thing i could do now? im in love with WSG 20-29 and i wana stay there till i become master seargent. currently private. Any talent advice builds? i dont wana go full feral, a lil is okay but im trying to stay away from it. I would love to go balance. Resto wouldnt be bad to. Thanks so much for everyones support !


Please correct me if I'm totally off. Druids are excellent flag carriers in WSG and caping the flag gets you extra rep with Silverwing Sentinels, so really your best if you want to raise your rep is to go with Feral. I did this and let me tell you, it worked wonders.

A suggestion for your lvl 28 build would be:
Resto:
5 Furor
Feral:
5 Ferocity
3 Feral Instinct
2 Improved Bash
2 Feline Swiftness
1 Feral Charge
Balance:
1 Nature's Grasp @ lvl 29

This is allows you to both run the flag and protect it. This build got me a lot of Honour with WSG.

If you really don't want to go that route then go Resto / Balance because healing will be a greater benefit to your team. Therefore I personally would go with:

Resto:
5 Furor (IMoW at low lvls won't help that much)
5 Nature's Focus
5 Improved Healing Touch
1 Insect Swarm (its a great dot)
& then depending on play style ether Nature's Grasp or put some points into Improved Rejuv, that part is upto you.

This will allow you to heal and if really need be, catform > dash and then root anyone trying to get away with your flag until the rest of your group can catch up.

Hope this helps.

Ephrim

Wildkin form is also my dream :D

well i respect on lvl 40 so can get it

me and my brother have lookt on the balance tree and we have find this konklusion

Imp Wrath = 5/5

naturs grap=1/1

Imp natures Grap= 4/4

Entangling Roots = 3/3

Imp Moonfire = 5/5

Nature´s Reace = 1/2

Vegenarenc = 5/5

Nature´s Grace = 1/1

Moonfury = 5/5

Moonkin Form = 1/1


does eney body have some better ideas

Wildkin form is also my dream :D

well i respect on lvl 40 so can get it

me and my brother have lookt on the balance tree and we have find this konklusion

Imp Wrath = 5/5

naturs grap=1/1

Imp natures Grap= 4/4

Entangling Roots = 3/3

Imp Moonfire = 5/5

Nature´s Reace = 1/2

Vegenarenc = 5/5

Nature´s Grace = 1/1

Moonfury = 5/5

Moonkin Form = 1/1


does eney body have some better ideas

Moonglow may be the single most important balance talent, without it nearly everything costs more mana and you will be oom and wondering what you should do.

Nature's reach is more gimmicky than useful, and you don't need to raise NG to 100%, I get by fine with 50%. I certainly wouldn't do both max nature's grasp and improved entangling roots, since then you have 8 points in a skill you can't use in most instances (dungeons).

thx for the tip, i think it seems more useful whit full moonglow and not take talents in Imp Entangling roots

I've been trying Moonkin for a little bit now, and after reading this thread I realize I've been making that horrid mistake of trying to play like a mage heh.

My biggest problem is stuns. It just never seems to fail, I will open with SF, MF and then try to get a root off but by then the person I'm attacking will stun me and I'm dead in seconds. Even using warstomp its almost guaranteed that they'll land that final barrage of damage on me to finish me off before a heal has a chance to land.

Any suggestions?

Use NG when you need to heal, and get your first aid to 300 so you can heal in moonkin form when possible.

I recently respec'd moonkin and have even found it a viable option for tanking lower level instances, as crazy as it may sound, When I run up and hit a bunch of mobs with my AQ40 Mallet the moonfire them then move to the next, group them up warstomp the barkskin/hurricane i can keep agro for the rest of the fight provided others know how to manage agro at all. It is quite fun, and once i run low on mana, i switch to warden staff/ bear up and keep going.

Why are you running 5 man instances when you obviously have farmed AQ40.....

Is Moonkin Farming possible?

I'm around level 35, and I'm thinking of spec'ing for moonkin right when I hit 40, and I'm thinking... let's say I go someplace with mobs 2 levels lower than me or so...

I drop Moonfire and Insect Swarm on 4 different mobs, and as soon as they're in melee range I cast Barksin/Hurricane. At level 40, this is about 1400 damage, without counting any talents or +damage. That should be enough to kill a 38 mob, right?

Granted, I'll have a minute of downtime, in which I'll just melee a solo mob or be drinking or something. What do you think? It's probably not nearly as efficient as mage farming, but it seems like it might be fun.

Is my math wrong? is this possible even?

no cuz u don't get barkskin till lvl 44 :bonk:

they need a lvl70 equivalent to End of Dreams. great mana regen with the bonus atkpwr, as well as stats for spelldmg, etc etc.

If I may say something, I have played balance spec sense level 13. (and am now level 70 still balance to this day) while running instances as a moonkin, I find the only need for a melee weapon is if you get to 10% on mana and need to save your innervate for the healer. in most cases I tend to be able to hold my mana through longer, or as long as most mages and priests, while doing more DPS. The weapon I use is the bringer of death with a +40 spell damage enchant, yes, this is a tipical mage item, and I one, hate how it looks, and two wish there was an actual moonkin weapon other then "Staff of disintegration (http://www.thottbot.com/i30313)"

In my opinion, the only need for melee as a moonkin is to beat mana out of critters.

on that note, the staff is not usable outside of tempist keep, and mages/priests/warlocks will assume they have prioaraty because they are 'real casters' (not, they cant keep up with my dps)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v107/penciel/UBERDPS.jpg


one more edit:

What I mean by a moonkin weapon, is something that has attack power in forms, increased spell damage, and increased spell crit. with additional Int and Stam, Spirit is a bonus as well, Blizzard. get on it.

I've been levelling my druid (my first toon -- foolish of me to start with the hardest class, but it's been fun) as balance, and I finally got to moonkin. I have to say that moonkin is a blast (boom). I now hardly bother with roots because I don't care if mobs hit me, or even if I get an add. For whatever reason (talents and/or thwacking with my staff) I'm rarely getting very low on mana except in instances.

I also just did my first try as a panzerkin, running some lowbies through an instance, and it was really a riot. I dropped dots on the ads while nuking down the main target. And as I get more talents (and better gear) I think I may be reasonably good off-tank ('kin doesn't have the stamina or defense to main-tank lots of bosses).

Fortunately I'm in a guild of good players who let each other have fun, so I won't be getting any pressure to re-spec. And with the really good gear in BC, I think balance may be increasingly viable.

Hi all, when i first started playing WoW seems like many moons ago, i tried a druid and failed miserably cos my guildies told me it was wrong choice for first char well since then (i left the guild) that deleted druid has played on my mind, i now have a lvl 63 warlock and a lvl 44 hunter i am working on my druid i remember being a newbie and seeing someone in Moonkin form with my husband and we both looked at each other and said i want that armour (i know how thick we thought it was an armour set like tier or something) we have wised up now lol and after being feral for so long am gonna take the plunge into the life of a moonkin (sounds good fun to me :)

hf in moonkin!!

but a feral bashes a moonkin everytime^^